JF leapfrogs Hoyer (accord. to source)
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NFL experience.
And I like Johnny.
WSS
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Serious question here, list off what Hoyer does better than Johnny?
He's not more accurate. His completion percentage is lower than Johnny's so far in camp and in preseason game.
He's not faster. That's lol to discuss.
He doesn't have a better arm.
He's not smarter.
He has been in the league six years and he's played three games. He blew his knee out in the third game (just something for all the "Johnny will get hurt" guys to remember").
He was a pretty average qb in a pretty average conference in college.
So what does Hoyer do better? He's taller. Is that it?
And by any objective measure, Johnny has beat out Hoyer at this point. If Hoyer ends up starting, it will only be because the coaching staff is afraid to bench the "hometown" favorite. I can respect that, but at the same time I know that there is one qb on your roster that is a potential HOF player, and it isn't Hoyer.
And by any objective measure, Johnny has beat out Hoyer at this point. If Hoyer ends up starting, it will only be because the coaching staff is afraid to bench the "hometown" favorite. I can respect that, but at the same time I know that there is one qb on your roster that is a potential HOF player, and it isn't Hoyer.
seriously answering your question with a question: where do you see that manziel is beating out hoyer? where? in the preseason game vs. detroit? (if you're smart you'll figure that one out on your own).
if you think that manziel is beating out hoyer you must not be seeing what the coaches are seeing or for that matter, what the rest of the world is seeing.
hey, if manziel lights it up monday night and plays head and shoulders above hoyer then you've got nothing to worry about because the coaches will have no choice but start manziel in the 3rd game. it's all up to him now. not me. not you. this is his biggest game since whatever game he played in college that was his biggest game. (sorry, not an A&M fan).
if he's so great he'll win it outright monday night. let's wait and see. i really hope the dude scores 4 TDs for the browns running and passing.
you guys gotta understand. if it weren't for you all shoving manziel down our throats every second of every day there would prob be a lot more manziel love on here. you guys just make is soooo easy to want to root against the guy with your obnoxiousness.
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@everlastingxxx said:
Fuck you are annoying with your obsession with cock, dick and balls. Go find you a bathhouse already. Holy hell!
please point to the post where i used those words.
maybe it's you with those words on your mind?
hmmmmmmm.
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Mik will be a Manziel fanboy before the season is over. You ALL will be Manziel fanboys
you're funny.
never seen people like you guys that are so enamored with one player. it's weird that this forum has lasted all these years without the likes of manziel fans. as a matter of fact i think this board turned to shit hours after manziel was drafted.
sure all of us have favorite players BUT to actually own a blow-up doll of a midget and carry around pom poms in your back pockets...............uh, no.
(btw. i actually like, not love, manziel. i just really dislike a lot of you manziel fag boys.)
you're funny.
never seen people like you guys that are so enamored with one player. it's weird that this forum has lasted all these years without the likes of manziel fans. as a matter of fact i think this board turned to shit hours after manziel was drafted.
sure all of us have favorite players BUT to actually own a blow-up doll of a midget and carry around pom poms in your back pockets...............uh, no.
(btw. i actually like, not love, manziel. i just really dislike a lot of you manziel fag boys.)
Apparently this is nothing compared to the Quinn/Anderson tribulations that went on here. Ask Zombo and Hoorta.
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That weird vibe/attitude in coming mainly from the JFF Fanboys that joined the forum in May. Natural selection will take out the really faggy ones, and the few that remain will probably fit right in.
Johnny Manziel is a member of the Cleveland Browns and the future of the organization.
Take a deep breathe and let that sink in. Good.
Johnny Manziel is a member of the Cleveland Browns and the future of the organization.
Well, maybe, hopefully. If not, we all move on to the next guy. Will you?
Take a deep breathe and let that sink in. Good.
No need. That is still a proposition that is still out there floating. When it sinks, it sinks. then that would be good. I am obviously concerned that it will never sink, that instead it will dry up float away on the breeze.
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He has a better arm than Hoyer - sure, but Weeden's is better than Johnny's, it's about what you use it for
He is smarter than Hoyer - not convinced
He has a better completion percentage than Hoyer - in pre-season, against the 2s. I'd be worreid if he didn't
He is quicker/faster than Hoyer - check
He is more clutch than Hoyer - remember that time when JF led a last minute winning 55 yard TD drive against the Vikings? Wait, that doesn't sound right...
He has won more big games than Hoyer - he's won shit in the NFL
He is more professional than Hoyer - OK, now I realise you're just trolling and I shouldn't have fed you
He is tougher than Hoyer - ...
He is smarter than Hoyer - not convinced
He is quicker/faster than Hoyer - check
It's not about Wunderlich smarts. It's about NFL level football smarts, i.e., play calling, reads, audibles, and that's where Hoyer has had and, IMO, will continue to have the edge.
Faster and quicker on the run, yes, but I continue to see fresh, side-by-side drop back footage where BH gets the ball away first... and since the position is QB, that counts for more.
I like both hoyer and manziel but it is obvious that at 21 yrs old with only 2 years of college damage manziel has potentially considerably more upside than hoyer..
As far as the QB derby goes it wasnt open or fair as it was advertised to be and it should come as no surprize when hoyer gets the start against shitsburgh which i am good with.
Disagree that the competition has not been open or honest. The lack of candor by Pettine in discussing his QBs' evaluations is understandable.
As for "upside"... HCs don't appreciate (and opponents don't fear) upside until it is realized... and then it's called performance.
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I like both hoyer and manziel but it is obvious that at 21 yrs old with only 2 years of college damage manziel has potentially considerably more upside than hoyer..
As far as the QB derby goes it wasnt open or fair as it was advertised to be and it should come as no surprize when hoyer gets the start against shitsburgh which i am good with.
Coach isnt going to go into much detail as to why hoyer is the better of the two but my guess is that johnny rookie is struggling a bit with reading nfl defenses and gets happy feet a tad to early and he often seems to struggle to read the 2nd or 3rd WRs progression before taking off..
Which wil make the coaches nervous..
The kid has all the spiderman senses to evade sacks and extend plays for our sucky WR corp but needs to try and stay in the pocket and read through his progressions before jetting off with the ball wildly bouncing around in one hand..
Looking like another 5 win or less season to me regardless of who starts.
I like both hoyer and manziel but it is obvious that at 21 yrs old with only 2 years of college damage manziel has potentially considerably more upside than hoyer..
As far as the QB derby goes it wasnt open or fair as it was advertised to be and it should come as no surprize when hoyer gets the start against shitsburgh which i am good with.
Coach isnt going to go into much detail as to why hoyer is the better of the two but my guess is that johnny rookie is struggling a bit with reading nfl defenses and gets happy feet a tad to early and he often seems to struggle to read the 2nd or 3rd WRs progression before taking off..
Which wil make the coaches nervous..
The kid has all the spiderman senses to evade sacks and extend plays for our sucky WR corp but needs to try and stay in the pocket and read through his progressions before jetting off with the ball wildly bouncing around in one hand..
Looking like another 5 win or less season to me regardless of who starts.
With the defense the Browns have, they better win more than 5 games.
But unto what Hoyer does better than Johnny- reads NFL defenses one hell of a lot quicker- at this point in time. In general, makes quicker better decisions too.
Yes, I was the #1 Manziel disliker pre draft- and his antics before training camp merely reinforced my opinion he had a long way to go about knowing how act as a face of the franchise "professional". Thankfully he's cleaned up his act and been doing and saying all the right things once camp started.
Of course you can't deny Manziel is the more athletic of the two and I was surprised at how good an arm he has- plenty good enough to succeed in the NFL The downside of Manziel is he's a really, really raw project. Only 2 years of major college ball- and I hate to tell you JF lovers going against NFL defenses is a tad tougher than going against the toughest in the SEC.
Seriously- if you were being objective about JF's performance against Detroit- he wasn't seeing the field particularity well- another thing Hoyer currently beats JF at. Might only have been a couple plays but Manziel took off running when he had secondary receivers wide open.
As Tour so elegantly pointed out, there's a difference between looking for open receivers, and going through your progressions to find open receivers- something Manziel himself admits he's got to get better at.
Yes JF has a lot of upside, but I doubt if you put him in the starting lineup day 1 against the Steelers, he could duplicate what Rothlisberger and Marino did in their rookie seasons.
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I like both hoyer and manziel but it is obvious that at 21 yrs old with only 2 years of college damage manziel has potentially considerably more upside than hoyer..
As far as the QB derby goes it wasnt open or fair as it was advertised to be and it should come as no surprize when hoyer gets the start against shitsburgh which i am good with.
Coach isnt going to go into much detail as to why hoyer is the better of the two but my guess is that johnny rookie is struggling a bit with reading nfl defenses and gets happy feet a tad to early and he often seems to struggle to read the 2nd or 3rd WRs progression before taking off..
Which wil make the coaches nervous..
The kid has all the spiderman senses to evade sacks and extend plays for our sucky WR corp but needs to try and stay in the pocket and read through his progressions before jetting off with the ball wildly bouncing around in one hand..
Looking like another 5 win or less season to me regardless of who starts.
With the defense the Browns have, they better win more than 5 games.
But unto what Hoyer does better than Johnny- reads NFL defenses one hell of a lot quicker- at this point in time. In general, makes quicker better decisions too.
Yes, I was the #1 Manziel disliker pre draft- and his antics before training camp merely reinforced my opinion he had a long way to go about knowing how act as a face of the franchise "professional". Thankfully he's cleaned up his act and been doing and saying all the right things once camp started.
Of course you can't deny Manziel is the more athletic of the two and I was surprised at how good an arm he has- plenty good enough to succeed in the NFL The downside of Manziel is he's a really, really raw project. Only 2 years of major college ball- and I hate to tell you JF lovers going against NFL defenses is a tad tougher than going against the toughest in the SEC.
Seriously- if you were being objective about JF's performance against Detroit- he wasn't seeing the field particularity well- another thing Hoyer currently beats JF at. Might only have been a couple plays but Manziel took off running when he had secondary receivers wide open.
As Tour so elegantly pointed out, there's a difference between looking for open receivers, and going through your progressions to find open receivers- something Manziel himself admits he's got to get better at.
Yes JF has a lot of upside, but I doubt if you put him in the starting lineup day 1 against the Steelers, he could duplicate what Rothlisberger and Marino did in their rookie seasons.
With the defense the Browns have, they better win more than 5 games.
But unto what Hoyer does better than Johnny- reads NFL defenses one hell of a lot quicker- at this point in time. In general, makes quicker better decisions too.
Yes, I was the #1 Manziel disliker pre draft- and his antics before training camp merely reinforced my opinion he had a long way to go about knowing how act as a face of the franchise "professional". Thankfully he's cleaned up his act and been doing and saying all the right things once camp started.
Of course you can't deny Manziel is the more athletic of the two and I was surprised at how good an arm he has- plenty good enough to succeed in the NFL The downside of Manziel is he's a really, really raw project. Only 2 years of major college ball- and I hate to tell you JF lovers going against NFL defenses is a tad tougher than going against the toughest in the SEC.
Seriously- if you were being objective about JF's performance against Detroit- he wasn't seeing the field particularity well- another thing Hoyer currently beats JF at. Might only have been a couple plays but Manziel took off running when he had secondary receivers wide open.
As Tour so elegantly pointed out, there's a difference between looking for open receivers, and going through your progressions to find open receivers- something Manziel himself admits he's got to get better at.
Yes JF has a lot of upside, but I doubt if you put him in the starting lineup day 1 against the Steelers, he could duplicate what Rothlisberger and Marino did in their rookie seasons.
I distinctly remember one signature JF play - he was forced out of the pocket, scrambled a bit, shook off a tackle and just made a first down. It was all very exciting. Until you realise he had Ray Agnew wide open for the easy first down completion, without putting the QBs health in danger.
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I like both hoyer and manziel but it is obvious that at 21 yrs old with only 2 years of college damage manziel has potentially considerably more upside than hoyer..
As far as the QB derby goes it wasnt open or fair as it was advertised to be and it should come as no surprize when hoyer gets the start against shitsburgh which i am good with.
Coach isnt going to go into much detail as to why hoyer is the better of the two but my guess is that johnny rookie is struggling a bit with reading nfl defenses and gets happy feet a tad to early and he often seems to struggle to read the 2nd or 3rd WRs progression before taking off..
Which wil make the coaches nervous..
The kid has all the spiderman senses to evade sacks and extend plays for our sucky WR corp but needs to try and stay in the pocket and read through his progressions before jetting off with the ball wildly bouncing around in one hand..
Looking like another 5 win or less season to me regardless of who starts.
With the defense the Browns have, they better win more than 5 games.
But unto what Hoyer does better than Johnny- reads NFL defenses one hell of a lot quicker- at this point in time. In general, makes quicker better decisions too.
Yes, I was the #1 Manziel disliker pre draft- and his antics before training camp merely reinforced my opinion he had a long way to go about knowing how act as a face of the franchise "professional". Thankfully he's cleaned up his act and been doing and saying all the right things once camp started.
Of course you can't deny Manziel is the more athletic of the two and I was surprised at how good an arm he has- plenty good enough to succeed in the NFL The downside of Manziel is he's a really, really raw project. Only 2 years of major college ball- and I hate to tell you JF lovers going against NFL defenses is a tad tougher than going against the toughest in the SEC.
Seriously- if you were being objective about JF's performance against Detroit- he wasn't seeing the field particularity well- another thing Hoyer currently beats JF at. Might only have been a couple plays but Manziel took off running when he had secondary receivers wide open.
As Tour so elegantly pointed out, there's a difference between looking for open receivers, and going through your progressions to find open receivers- something Manziel himself admits he's got to get better at.
Yes JF has a lot of upside, but I doubt if you put him in the starting lineup day 1 against the Steelers, he could duplicate what Rothlisberger and Marino did in their rookie seasons.
Seriously- if you were being objective about JF's performance against Detroit- he wasn't seeing the field particularity well- another thing Hoyer currently beats JF at. Might only have been a couple plays but Manziel took off running when he had secondary receivers wide open.
Not to mention running from "phantom pressure" a couple times...
I do not think folks appreciate the impact of missing reads and open progressions. Even a positive play will be downgraded. No better example I can think of than the 4th and 1 roll out. The play was designed to make the defender chose between defending the QB run and the pass to the FB. The defender chose to defend the run and yet the QB still ran. The yard was gained, but against the design of the play.
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Zombo said:
i guess that's what they watch in texas.
chick dressed up like a skinny punk and hogan doing his best to stay non-relevant.
i feel pissed i even wasted my time.......
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love me some michelle beadle.
wonder if her gash is still blown out after dropping that kid?
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where the hell you been Gips?
Browns qb's will be tested early with their September schedule featuring 3 upper tier defenses. pisspuke (14), Ravens (12), Saints (4). (total D 2013)
if they go into October 0-3 there will definitely be a qb change for the Titans game after the bye.
I'd be happy as hell if they win a September game but, lets face it, it's gonna be tough to get into the end zone with their obvious lack of offensive playmakers A banged up Cameron, at
this point, is at the top of the short list providing JG is riding the suspension pine.
It's Hoyers job to lose. He gets his job back after what appears to be a successful recovery of his knee. He worked his gonads off to heal and justifiably gets back what he lost.
JFF debut most likely will be in Nashville 10/5 coming off the bye if hoys doesn't deliver
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The Browns don't need Manziel, they were just fine withou....wait.... nevermind
I really don't get the hate. I think it's more of a personal ego issue than anything. Nobody wants to be told that their team sucks, but when you have a once in a lifetime type player that could very quickly change all the agony of being a Browns fan, instead of embracing it, you want to puff out your chest and justify your manhood with the argument that "I am a true Browns fan! See? I liked the Browns BEFORE we got Manziel, so I am better than you, and you are GAY!"
Grow up, you need to work on your self-esteem there Mik. Manziel MAY be the best thing that has happened to this program in who knows when. As an Aggie fan and fan of Manziel, I had always said that he would be fine as long as he didn't get drafted by the Browns. If he can be successful in Cleveland, it just adds to the legend of JFF.
I can relate to Browns fans, I have been and Aggie fan my whole life, and had to endure the dark ages of mediocrity for well over a decade. I hope that you guys can experience the same success we had with JFF and I'm truly inspired to root for the Browns, I want JF to succeed at a place that NO other QB has been able to do in who knows how long... Once the prophecy of The Legend of Johnny Football has been realized, I will go quietly into the night, but not without a few smiles and a few "I told ya so's"
Yall are in for a real fun next few years, hope yall enjoy watching him play as much as the rest of the world, and really hoping the Browns have a lot of success with him. I will be rooting for the Browns for the foreseeable future. Maybe not for the same reasons as some of you, but what difference does that make? Doesn't make me gay and doesn't make you a better man, like it or not, Manziel just TRIPLED your fanbase overnight, y'all are probably outnumbered now. Enjoy it while yall can, I would bet the farm that he will not stick around in Cleveland any longer than he absolutely has to.
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I think we can close this thread ... No leapfrogging ... No source ... Brian Hoyer: still our QB.
Z
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The Browns don't need Manziel, they were just fine withou....wait.... nevermind
I really don't get the hate. I think it's more of a personal ego issue than anything. Nobody wants to be told that their team sucks, but when you have a once in a lifetime type player that could very quickly change all the agony of being a Browns fan, instead of embracing it, you want to puff out your chest and justify your manhood with the argument that "I am a true Browns fan! See? I liked the Browns BEFORE we got Manziel, so I am better than you, and you are GAY!"
Grow up, you need to work on your self-esteem there Mik. Manziel MAY be the best thing that has happened to this program in who knows when. As an Aggie fan and fan of Manziel, I had always said that he would be fine as long as he didn't get drafted by the Browns. If he can be successful in Cleveland, it just adds to the legend of JFF.
I can relate to Browns fans, I have been and Aggie fan my whole life, and had to endure the dark ages of mediocrity for well over a decade. I hope that you guys can experience the same success we had with JFF and I'm truly inspired to root for the Browns, I want JF to succeed at a place that NO other QB has been able to do in who knows how long... Once the prophecy of The Legend of Johnny Football has been realized, I will go quietly into the night, but not without a few smiles and a few "I told ya so's"
Yall are in for a real fun next few years, hope yall enjoy watching him play as much as the rest of the world, and really hoping the Browns have a lot of success with him. I will be rooting for the Browns for the foreseeable future. Maybe not for the same reasons as some of you, but what difference does that make? Doesn't make me gay and doesn't make you a better man, like it or not, Manziel just TRIPLED your fanbase overnight, y'all are probably outnumbered now. Enjoy it while yall can, I would bet the farm that he will not stick around in Cleveland any longer than he absolutely has to.
The Browns don't need Manziel, they were just fine withou....wait.... nevermind
I really don't get the hate. I think it's more of a personal ego issue than anything. Nobody wants to be told that their team sucks, but when you have a once in a lifetime type player that could very quickly change all the agony of being a Browns fan, instead of embracing it, you want to puff out your chest and justify your manhood with the argument that "I am a true Browns fan! See? I liked the Browns BEFORE we got Manziel, so I am better than you, and you are GAY!"
Grow up, you need to work on your self-esteem there Mik. Manziel MAY be the best thing that has happened to this program in who knows when. As an Aggie fan and fan of Manziel, I had always said that he would be fine as long as he didn't get drafted by the Browns. If he can be successful in Cleveland, it just adds to the legend of JFF.
I can relate to Browns fans, I have been and Aggie fan my whole life, and had to endure the dark ages of mediocrity for well over a decade. I hope that you guys can experience the same success we had with JFF and I'm truly inspired to root for the Browns, I want JF to succeed at a place that NO other QB has been able to do in who knows how long... Once the prophecy of The Legend of Johnny Football has been realized, I will go quietly into the night, but not without a few smiles and a few "I told ya so's"
Yall are in for a real fun next few years, hope yall enjoy watching him play as much as the rest of the world, and really hoping the Browns have a lot of success with him. I will be rooting for the Browns for the foreseeable future. Maybe not for the same reasons as some of you, but what difference does that make? Doesn't make me gay and doesn't make you a better man, like it or not, Manziel just TRIPLED your fanbase overnight, y'all are probably outnumbered now. Enjoy it while yall can, I would bet the farm that he will not stick around in Cleveland any longer than he absolutely has to.
I've lived through more the Browns suck swamp water seasons than I care to remember- but usually I've had hope before the real bullets start flying in September.
OK, there was- and probably still is "hate". and I admit being guilty of it. "Hate" of Manziel the off-field doofus pre training comp. Count Pettine, Farmer, and Haslem in that camp.
There is not one person who bleeds brown & orange that "hates" Manziel the football player. Got it?
What us oldsters "hate" is guys coming in and making pronouncements Manziel could beat out the likes of Kurt Warner or Tony Romo before he's ever played in a regular season NFL game. Plus the bashing and denigration of Bryan Hoyer- no chance, nope, none in the world Hoyer could repeat the Kurt Warner story- us folks that have lived in Cleveland say "chance" and that's all we're asking for. FWIW, I made a bet today at my favorite restaurant with the assistant manager (Colts fan) for a free meal that Hoyer is going to start the first three games- and I have no doubts I'm going to collect.
What you have to understand- Cleveland has one of the most knowledgeable fan bases in the NFL- and if JFF comes in and starts stinking up the place- he's going to hear it- real fast. And what I REALLY don't want to see is the Man-zealots bashing Hoyer over every incomplete pass- because he's not the"Chosen One". Get over it- Cleveland had the "Chosen One" Le Bron James- that's the yardstick of "can't miss". JFF doesn't measure up- at least not yet.
Make that twice in a lifetime for me regarding JF's skill set- I'm old enough to have seen Fran Tarkenton play.
Ya see us old curmudgeons have been around long enough to see plenty of "can't miss" prospects-miss. Doubly so for the Browns. It's been pointed out numerous times here before- but it bears repeating- if Manziel was "can't miss" he'd have been drafted #1 overall. So take a chill pill, and watch the season unfold.
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