Do You Really Want An Offense?
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Don't like JF then trade him to Chip and get your RT. He's never going to be the square peg fitting into the round hole anyway. I made this for the future, not this year. Way too late to change an entire O scheme.
And that Aggie will be the best OT available-better than either #2 overall Joeckel or #6 overall Matthews. Played RG when they were the OT's, moved to RT so Matthews would stay his senior year with a move to LT and this year moved to LT. Maybe some should pay attention to mock drafts before criticizing that recommendation.
Don't like JF then trade him to Chip and get your RT. He's never going to be the square peg fitting into the round hole anyway. I made this for the future, not this year. Way too late to change an entire O scheme.
And that Aggie will be the best OT available-better than either #2 overall Joeckel or #6 overall Matthews. Played RG when they were the OT's, moved to RT so Matthews would stay his senior year with a move to LT and this year moved to LT. Maybe some should pay attention to mock drafts before criticizing that recommendation.
rookie coach pettine with no experience with how to run an offense took an hometown poll and they chose "3 & out hoyer"....no touchdowns in preseason games equates to "earning it" in cleveland.....i see another 3- 5 win season....in other words, cleveland stays cleveland....hopefully they will trade manziel to a team who wants to win.....
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If not for that gimmick TD screen, Foles (whom was/is a much better passer than Foosball) was even looking shakey in that Chip Kelly system.
Though you expect Manziel to succeed based on...? His ability to get to the edge on the read option? He's already proven he can't do that in the NFL.
edit: Maybe the OP has a point. After all I"m sure his fountain of knowledge is derived from tearing up the Madden rankings.
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The answer was on display for you last night against your arch rival.
1. Bring in someone who knows how to run a Chip Kelly style no huddle, up tempo, run 'em till they drop offense or send Shanahan to school on it. I'd rather start with Art Briles (or someone like him) and go from there myself. Shanahan is too old school for my taste and I'm not sure he could keep up with Johnny Football. Shanahan is trying to hitch a racehorse to a plow team instead of entering the Kentucky Derby. That is the definition of just plain stupid.
2. Spend those first rounders on the right side of the O line. You need a R tackle with the skills of a L tackle-Ced Obuehi would be a good place to start-he's played them both.
3. Add another RB with blocking, catching, running skills-you can never have too many if you want to wear out a good D.
If you don't agree that will work then keep your head in the sand and continue to be the huddle up every play, let the D plan and rest, Cleveland Browns, death camp for QB's and perennial bottom dweller. Cleveland has the D that would set this O up to succeed. It just takes stepping into the modern age without fear. What has the past gotten you? Nothing I can see.
Oh, and drop either Grossman or Hoyer and retain Shaw-he proved he can run a no huddle at SC when the chips are down.
The answer was on display for you last night against your arch rival.
1. Bring in someone who knows how to run a Chip Kelly style no huddle, up tempo, run 'em till they drop offense or send Shanahan to school on it. I'd rather start with Art Briles (or someone like him) and go from there myself. Shanahan is too old school for my taste and I'm not sure he could keep up with Johnny Football. Shanahan is trying to hitch a racehorse to a plow team instead of entering the Kentucky Derby. That is the definition of just plain stupid.
Except Shanahan is the guy that ran the ....what is it called, zone option/spread option/zone read whatever offense with RGIII which is just what it seems you are advocationg. The problem seems not to be with the offense...but the fact that JFF, by his own acknowledgement cannot keep up with it. Right now it seems that JFF is the plow....being drug around and creating furrows. He needs to get on his feet and learn to run with the big dogs.
2. Spend those first rounders on the right side of the O line. You need a R tackle with the skills of a L tackle-Ced Obuehi would be a good place to start-he's played them both.
The Schwartz will be fine. He always starts slow and ends up being at near Pro Bowl level. That said, I see nothing wrong with considering taking the guy you mention. As I understand it he may be the top rated college OLineman right now. But, as the season goes on, we may see that we may have a higher priority than OL in the next draft.
3. Add another RB with blocking, catching, running skills-you can never have too many if you want to wear out a good D.
Do not Ben Tate, Terence West, Dion Lewis, Ed Baker etc. etc. fit this bill? The theory in bring in Tate and drafting West is that they will.
If you don't agree that will work then keep your head in the sand and continue to be the huddle up every play, let the D plan and rest, Cleveland Browns, death camp for QB's and perennial bottom dweller. Cleveland has the D that would set this O up to succeed. It just takes stepping into the modern age without fear. What has the past gotten you? Nothing I can see.
Oh, and drop either Grossman or Hoyer and retain Shaw-he proved he can run a no huddle at SC when the chips are down.
Sounds like you are saying " Adopt a gimmick offense, yea, an unproven method of winning in the NFL because hey....I think it might work"
OK, I am in favor of something that does work....though I have absolutely no more confidence in your proposal any more than if we adopted the Wishbone or the Wing-T.
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I forget who, but someone on here called it... now starts the it's everyone else's but JM's fault.
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I forget who, but someone on here called it... now starts the it's everyone else's but JM's fault.
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What's funny is that people seam to discount that Chip Kelly had issues fixing the Eagles red zone offense last year. Aside from the early season tear, their numbers declined as the season went on. A common theme amongst "spread" offenses at the collegiate and pro level.
Let's not even get into the fact that the Philly defense being historically bad. Another calling card of Chip Kelly.
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What's funny is that people seam to discount that Chip Kelly had issues fixing the Eagles red zone offense last year. Aside from the early season tear, their numbers declined as the season went on. A common theme amongst "spread" offenses at the collegiate and pro level.
Let's not even get into the fact that the Philly defense being historically bad. Another calling card of Chip Kelly.
What's funny is that people seam to discount that Chip Kelly had issues fixing the Eagles red zone offense last year. Aside from the early season tear, their numbers declined as the season went on. A common theme amongst "spread" offenses at the collegiate and pro level.
Let's not even get into the fact that the Philly defense being historically bad. Another calling card of Chip Kelly.
Wonder how much of the defensive woes are from the offense only giving them a break for such a little amount of time.
I'd hate to play defense on his team.
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Then trade him if you don't like him. He will not get better until he is to the point where he can run a wide open, no huddle offense. That's what the Browns bought into if they truly scouted him and felt he was the best QB in the draft. But now they want a "game manager" (plow horse). Those are a dime a dozen and don't cost a first round pick. So why did they take him ?(yeah go ahead and try to put all the blame on the owner-Farmer and Pettine are not that cowed).
And how come so many of you that think he is shit are disputing what the staff did? Aren't they smarter than you as well as me? I mean that is what you are saying out one side of you mouth, but it seems to be a different story when you see your other side in the mirror.
Tour-Chip had JM all but signed with Oregon so the answer is yes. He changed his commitment when A&M offered closer to family when Sherman's QB coach insisted on an offer by his boss.
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Then trade him if you don't like him. He will not get better until he is to the point where he can run a wide open, no huddle offense. That's what the Browns bought into if they truly scouted him and felt he was the best QB in the draft. But now they want a "game manager" (plow horse). Those are a dime a dozen and don't cost a first round pick. So why did they take him ?(yeah go ahead and try to put all the blame on the owner-Farmer and Pettine are not that cowed).
And how come so many of you that think he is shit are disputing what the staff did? Aren't they smarter than you as well as me? I mean that is what you are saying out one side of you mouth, but it seems to be a different story when you see your other side in the mirror.
Tour-Chip had JM all but signed with Oregon so the answer is yes. He changed his commitment when A&M offered closer to family when Sherman's QB coach insisted on an offer by his boss.
Then trade him if you don't like him. He will not get better until he is to the point where he can run a wide open, no huddle offense. That's what the Browns bought into if they truly scouted him and felt he was the best QB in the draft. But now they want a "game manager" (plow horse). Those are a dime a dozen and don't cost a first round pick. So why did they take him ?(yeah go ahead and try to put all the blame on the owner-Farmer and Pettine are not that cowed).
And how come so many of you that think he is shit are disputing what the staff did? Aren't they smarter than you as well as me? I mean that is what you are saying out one side of you mouth, but it seems to be a different story when you see your other side in the mirror.
Tour-Chip had JM all but signed with Oregon so the answer is yes. He changed his commitment when A&M offered closer to family when Sherman's QB coach insisted on an offer by his boss.
See, to me, thats just a matter of perspective....
What I was hearing from day one(prior to the draft), was that JF 's school yard game wouldnt(and doesn't) fly with NFL defenses.....
and, because of that, any team that took him would expect him to learn how to work from the pocket, check down, etc etc etc......and, watching the Gruden camp, reading all the JF quotes, watching his pro day and such, JF seemed to be agreeing and stressing that he got that.......
So, simply put, the Browns expect JF to learn how to be a pro first.....and "improvise" later.....there is NO professional football team, in the entire league, that's going to base their entire offense on the improvisations of a rookie.......
Stop worrying that the Browns wont play this guy......they'll get him in there when he's ready....and when they do, hopefully, he can use his receivers and running backs to get down the field, because thats what good QB's do to win....and stay healthy.......
and, when a play does go bust, hopefully he'll be able to cut one loose and show us he is a REAL QB who can also run ....
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Then trade him if you don't like him. He will not get better until he is to the point where he can run a wide open, no huddle offense. That's what the Browns bought into if they truly scouted him and felt he was the best QB in the draft. But now they want a "game manager" (plow horse). Those are a dime a dozen and don't cost a first round pick. So why did they take him ?(yeah go ahead and try to put all the blame on the owner-Farmer and Pettine are not that cowed).
And how come so many of you that think he is shit are disputing what the staff did? Aren't they smarter than you as well as me? I mean that is what you are saying out one side of you mouth, but it seems to be a different story when you see your other side in the mirror.
Tour-Chip had JM all but signed with Oregon so the answer is yes. He changed his commitment when A&M offered closer to family when Sherman's QB coach insisted on an offer by his boss.
Then trade him if you don't like him. He will not get better until he is to the point where he can run a wide open, no huddle offense. That's what the Browns bought into if they truly scouted him and felt he was the best QB in the draft. But now they want a "game manager" (plow horse). Those are a dime a dozen and don't cost a first round pick. So why did they take him ?(yeah go ahead and try to put all the blame on the owner-Farmer and Pettine are not that cowed).
Except, you are wrong. They want a guy that can understand the basics of the Pro game. A guy that knows the plays, can call the plays and execute the plays. Hell, a number of plays called were specifically called for JFFs style of play. But he still has to know what to do, where to go, how to see his receivers. He ain't there yet.
When he gets there, they will set him loose. They recognize his skill, they are just not ready to let him run amok
And how come so many of you that think he is shit are disputing what the staff did? Aren't they smarter than you as well as me? I mean that is what you are saying out one side of you mouth, but it seems to be a different story when you see your other side in the mirror.
Tour-Chip had JM all but signed with Oregon so the answer is yes. He changed his commitment when A&M offered closer to family when Sherman's QB coach insisted on an offer by his boss.
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Mudlfy-I'm really not THAT worried about the staff other than Shanahan not fully comprehending that it has to be a matter of both adapting the QB AND adapting the O to fit the skills the QB brings to the table. I see no reason Shanahan can't find a way to run his own offense, but do it in the hurry up, no huddle style with signals to the whole team coming from the sidelines.
I also find it somewhat humorous that those who accuse someone like me offering an opinion, of being a damn site dumber than staff, except of course when they themselves are chastising the staff for bringing in JF. So therefore staff is smarter than me, but dumber than the posters calling them stupid for wasting a pick. See anything strange about that process?
PS-and what about that defense of the Steelers that everyone says would eat JF alive getting punked by a Chip Kelly up tempo offense. That just didn't take place according to some above.
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Mudlfy-I'm really not THAT worried about the staff other than Shanahan not fully comprehending that it has to be a matter of both adapting the QB AND adapting the O to fit the skills the QB brings to the table. I see no reason Shanahan can't find a way to run his own offense, but do it in the hurry up, no huddle style with signals to the whole team coming from the sidelines.
I also find it somewhat humorous that those who accuse someone like me offering an opinion, of being a damn site dumber than staff, except of course when they themselves are chastising the staff for bringing in JF. So therefore staff is smarter than me, but dumber than the posters calling them stupid for wasting a pick. See anything strange about that process?
PS-and what about that defense of the Steelers that everyone says would eat JF alive getting punked by a Chip Kelly up tempo offense. That just didn't take place according to some above.
Mudlfy-I'm really not THAT worried about the staff other than Shanahan not fully comprehending that it has to be a matter of both adapting the QB AND adapting the O to fit the skills the QB brings to the table. I see no reason Shanahan can't find a way to run his own offense, but do it in the hurry up, no huddle style with signals to the whole team coming from the sidelines.
Im just taking a more patient approach I guess....I see Shanahan "trying" to mix it up right now, using the pistol and option, etc...and I assure you, those are in there for JF, not Hoyer. .....I also think a hurry up offense is GREAT...no huddle....call it at the line, etc, etc. I remember all the way back to Cincy's sugar huddle....and LOVE how Manning move his team, etc etc.
But, for JF, there is no way this could happen now. He cant even read a defense or call a play yet, let alone do it on the fly....heck, he doesn't even KNOW the plays, let alone be able to call them.........
So.....seriously.....hows he gonna do that now, unless we let him make it up as he goes???
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I disagree on a couple things.
First off - I think the Pistol is in there regardless if it's JM or Hoyer. There are some great advantages to the formation especially considering that the bootleg is something Shanahan likes to use quite a bit.
As for Manziel running a "wide open" system. This isn't like Madden, kid. Reads just don't magically become easier when you have more receivers. The guy has trouble coming off his first read and now you're talking about putting him in an offense that requires quick decisions? Brilliant....
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AG1969:
for all the disappointment you must be feeling you know we as fans don't make personnel decisions so 'we' can't trade him.
would i trade him now while he is still unproven to be a champ or a bust? yep. give me a first rounder and a player and it's done. not because i dislike the kid cuz i don't, only a pure biz decision. right now the odds are in favor of him not helping this team this year and given the other negatives (not going all in and being there in the off-season wanting to win the job..), jerrah, chip or anyone else could come a knocking and i'd be listening.
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Aggie fans have a lucky couple of years of relevancy and now they think they know everything and have the best players... Ugh.
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Well at least this got a few people thinking instead of writing off a QB who hasn't played a down yet in a regular season game. That is the part as a fan that really sickens me. He's a Browns player now. Treat him like one. So many are quick to write him off when all they have seen is a player trying to "think" through a new offense rather than run it like second nature with the added instincts to change it on the fly when it's obvious the play is breaking down. When he gets to that level then he has a chance to be something special. But first he needs a chance. Pettine at least seems to understand that. I heard today he will likely look hard at bringing JM into the game with special packages. I doubt we see that much the first 3 games unless there is significant garbage time.
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when he becomes the pocket passer pettine wants he will come in the game.
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Well at least this got a few people thinking instead of writing off a QB who hasn't played a down yet in a regular season game. That is the part as a fan that really sickens me. He's a Browns player now. Treat him like one. So many are quick to write him off when all they have seen is a player trying to "think" through a new offense rather than run it like second nature with the added instincts to change it on the fly when it's obvious the play is breaking down. When he gets to that level then he has a chance to be something special. But first he needs a chance. Pettine at least seems to understand that. I heard today he will likely look hard at bringing JM into the game with special packages. I doubt we see that much the first 3 games unless there is significant garbage time.
Well at least this got a few people thinking instead of writing off a QB who hasn't played a down yet in a regular season game. That is the part as a fan that really sickens me. He's a Browns player now. Treat him like one. So many are quick to write him off when all they have seen is a player trying to "think" through a new offense rather than run it like second nature with the added instincts to change it on the fly when it's obvious the play is breaking down. When he gets to that level then he has a chance to be something special. But first he needs a chance. Pettine at least seems to understand that. I heard today he will likely look hard at bringing JM into the game with special packages. I doubt we see that much the first 3 games unless there is significant garbage time.
The Browns spent a first round pick on JF.
They haven't written him off just yet.
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when he becomes the pocket passer pettine wants he will come in the game.
I agree. And this will happen when Pettine secures the R side of that line. I placed my suggestion for next year. Some were being too hateful to realize he's a great one, regardless of who the QB is then.
tiamat63-"This isn't like Madden, kid." LOL-nobody has called me a kid since the late 50s; And I hate the Madden game.
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