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Jonathan Paul Manziel

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  • Tim Couch Pulls OutT Tim Couch Pulls Out

    @clevfan4life said:

    I'm not knowledgeable about qb arm mechanics, I actually didn't realize that JF had a 3/4 like delivery until it was talked about. Question is to those that do know....does that type of delivery make the deep ball hard to throw? When he had to put real air under the ball it came out awful. Would it absolutely ruin a young kid if they tried to make him throw more overhand? If our power running game pans out we're gonna need a qb that can throw over the top of stacked defense's. If those wobbles are what happens when a 3/4 guy throws deep under pressure...that doesn't bode well for him. Cause he will be under pressure on virtually every snap here in Cleveland..as he's already found out.

    Even those with true over the top deliveries sometimes tend to drop to 3/4 when attempting to throw deep bombs. Brees is guilty just as JF is.

    A 3/4 delivery isn't "wrong". It's just another delivery method.

    Most kids aren't taught proper mechanics and from a young age begin throwing 3/4 because it feels more natural. Trying to force a different delivery forces JF to consciously think about his body movement while trying to simultaneously process what's happening around him and that's when mistakes get made.

    The reason he was throwing ducks isn't because of his delivery method, it's because he was strong arming it. His tempo was off, his mechanics were falling apart and he was throwing all arm rather than planting, driving and using his entire body. Nearly all of his passes seemed to be slung rather than thrown and that's why they looked the way they did.

    A nice lesson I learned about reviewing tape from many different coaches - ball don't lie. When your mechanics are off, the ball shows it. Passes where the nose of the ball is off kilter and pointed slightly up indicate arm throws, a weak grip and open shoulders. If the nose is pointed down, you're likely using too much wrist and your throwing from a closed position.

    @tim-couch-pulls-out said:

    The reason he was throwing ducks isn't because of his delivery method, it's because he was strong arming it. His tempo was off, his mechanics were falling apart and he was throwing all arm rather than planting, driving and using his entire body.

    Is "strong-arming" a "touch-pass" is not nearly as oxymoronic as it seems at first blush?

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
  • Tour2maT Tour2ma

    @tim-couch-pulls-out said:

    The reason he was throwing ducks isn't because of his delivery method, it's because he was strong arming it. His tempo was off, his mechanics were falling apart and he was throwing all arm rather than planting, driving and using his entire body.

    Is "strong-arming" a "touch-pass" is not nearly as oxymoronic as it seems at first blush?

    @tour2ma said:

    Is "strong-arming" a "touch-pass" is not nearly as oxymoronic as it seems at first blush?

    Yeah, it does seem a bit oxymoronic.

    To clear up what I mean, I don't mean he was trying to put strength behind the pass, I mean that he was purely using all arm and nothing else.

    I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride
  • Tim Couch Pulls OutT Tim Couch Pulls Out

    @tour2ma said:

    Is "strong-arming" a "touch-pass" is not nearly as oxymoronic as it seems at first blush?

    Yeah, it does seem a bit oxymoronic.

    To clear up what I mean, I don't mean he was trying to put strength behind the pass, I mean that he was purely using all arm and nothing else.

    @tim-couch-pulls-out said:

    Yeah, it does seem a bit oxymoronic.

    To clear up what I mean, I don't mean he was trying to put strength behind the pass, I mean that he was purely using all arm and nothing else.

    Got ya...

    I was clearing up what seemed on the surface to be a disagreement between what we were seeing... Not that that would be a bad thing... or a first... 🙂

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196

  • idk if any of you guys realize this but hoyer is garbage. He is weeden-esque and its going to show come sunday. Weeden would've won those games that brian won

    Tour2maT hoortaH 3 Replies

  • Johnny?? Is that you? Oh, my bad, you're just an idiot.

    B 1 Reply
  • B BrownsFanatic

    idk if any of you guys realize this but hoyer is garbage. He is weeden-esque and its going to show come sunday. Weeden would've won those games that brian won

    @brownsfanatic said:

    idk if any of you guys realize this but hoyer is garbage. He is weeden-esque and its going to show come sunday. Weeden would've won those games that brian won

    The difference between Hoyer and Wheezy is only slightly less than the difference between yours and an intelligent post...

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196

  • Are we not supposed to see Johnny tackling dummy when rg3 throws?

    Early man walked away as modern man took control. Their minds weren't all the same and to conquer was their goal. So He built his great empires and he slaughtered his own kind, and he died a confused man and killed himself in his own mind...

  • I think thats part of the humor.

  • LOL-you can see the real JM just stepping out from behind the guy with the red, white & blue shirt on the right.

  • Movie magic do you really think Manziel would stand there and let RG3 throw a ball 30 mph at his face?, I doubt we see the dummy in the actual commercial.

  • They tried it with the roles reversed at first, but Johnny kept missing the apple.

    Ja.brill Peppers - Cleveland Brown OldBrownsFan, on 02 Jun 2017 - 5:09PM said: "No you are not the work of the devil but you are deceived by the devil." Who's got it better than us? Nooooobody!
  • D BoneD D Bone

    Johnny?? Is that you? Oh, my bad, you're just an idiot.

    @d-bone said:

    Johnny?? Is that you? Oh, my bad, you're just an idiot.

    Ignore that hoyer is perfectly capable of throwing 3 picks vs the vikings, but gets all the credit for the win

    Canton DawgC MudflyM 2 Replies
  • B BrownsFanatic

    @d-bone said:

    Johnny?? Is that you? Oh, my bad, you're just an idiot.

    Ignore that hoyer is perfectly capable of throwing 3 picks vs the vikings, but gets all the credit for the win

    @brownsfanatic said:

    Ignore that hoyer is perfectly capable of throwing 3 picks vs the vikings, but gets all the credit for the win

    I'm pretty sure none of those picks were thrown underhand.

    Two things that will define you: Your determination when you have nothing. Your attitude when you have everything. - Mike McCartney
    C 1 Reply
  • B BrownsFanatic

    @d-bone said:

    Johnny?? Is that you? Oh, my bad, you're just an idiot.

    Ignore that hoyer is perfectly capable of throwing 3 picks vs the vikings, but gets all the credit for the win

    @brownsfanatic said:

    Ignore that hoyer is perfectly capable of throwing 3 picks vs the vikings, but gets all the credit for the win

    That would make him just like Brett Favre.....3 picks and the WIN.....

  • Canton DawgC Canton Dawg

    @brownsfanatic said:

    Ignore that hoyer is perfectly capable of throwing 3 picks vs the vikings, but gets all the credit for the win

    I'm pretty sure none of those picks were thrown underhand.

    @canton-dawg said:

    I'm pretty sure none of those picks were thrown underhand.

    This right here. As someone who didn't like Weedon but thought that not all of those losses were on Weeds...cause that line last year was one of the worst I've seen from the browns since 99...weedon's unprecedented streak of underhand throws even AFTER the Lions game precludes any discussion of parity between him and Hoyer. People don't realize that Weeds tried that underhand at least 2 more times after the Lions game but didn't result in int's....or completions for that matter.

    Canton DawgC 1 Reply
  • B BrownsFanatic

    idk if any of you guys realize this but hoyer is garbage. He is weeden-esque and its going to show come sunday. Weeden would've won those games that brian won

    @brownsfanatic said:

    idk if any of you guys realize this but hoyer is garbage. He is weeden-esque and its going to show come sunday. Weeden would've won those games that brian won

    Hoyer has managed to hang around the NFL for 6 seasons, something I'm pretty sure Wee-done won't. As others have pointed out- Brian hasn't tried any underhand flips yet. BTW, Hoyer reads a defense 10X better, and gets rid of the ball 5X faster than old Brandon. If Romo gets hurt and Weeden has to start for the Cowboys, it's going to be damn hilarious.

    @brownsfanatic said:

    Ignore that hoyer is perfectly capable of throwing 3 picks vs the vikings, but gets all the credit for the win

    Yeah, because of that game winning 4th quarter drive.

  • hoortaH hoorta

    @brownsfanatic said:

    idk if any of you guys realize this but hoyer is garbage. He is weeden-esque and its going to show come sunday. Weeden would've won those games that brian won

    Hoyer has managed to hang around the NFL for 6 seasons, something I'm pretty sure Wee-done won't. As others have pointed out- Brian hasn't tried any underhand flips yet. BTW, Hoyer reads a defense 10X better, and gets rid of the ball 5X faster than old Brandon. If Romo gets hurt and Weeden has to start for the Cowboys, it's going to be damn hilarious.

    @brownsfanatic said:

    Ignore that hoyer is perfectly capable of throwing 3 picks vs the vikings, but gets all the credit for the win

    Yeah, because of that game winning 4th quarter drive.

    @hoorta said:

    Yeah, because of that game winning 4th quarter drive.

    You mean the one that ended up with a 7 yard TD pass to Cam with 0:51 left?

    I just want to be sure I am not confusing it with the other two drives that ended with him throwing TD passes...

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
  • C Clevfan4life

    @canton-dawg said:

    I'm pretty sure none of those picks were thrown underhand.

    This right here. As someone who didn't like Weedon but thought that not all of those losses were on Weeds...cause that line last year was one of the worst I've seen from the browns since 99...weedon's unprecedented streak of underhand throws even AFTER the Lions game precludes any discussion of parity between him and Hoyer. People don't realize that Weeds tried that underhand at least 2 more times after the Lions game but didn't result in int's....or completions for that matter.

    @clevfan4life said:

    This right here. As someone who didn't like Weedon but thought that not all of those losses were on Weeds...cause that line last year was one of the worst I've seen from the browns since 99...weedon's unprecedented streak of underhand throws even AFTER the Lions game precludes any discussion of parity between him and Hoyer. People don't realize that Weeds tried that underhand at least 2 more times after the Lions game but didn't result in int's....or completions for that matter.

    You DO realize that Hoyer & Weedone played behind the same Oline last year?

    The attempted underhand throws netted Weedone an interception and "0" completions, and you're wondering why this technique isn't more widely adopted by other NFL QB's?

    Two things that will define you: Your determination when you have nothing. Your attitude when you have everything. - Mike McCartney
  • Canton DawgC Canton Dawg

    @clevfan4life said:

    This right here. As someone who didn't like Weedon but thought that not all of those losses were on Weeds...cause that line last year was one of the worst I've seen from the browns since 99...weedon's unprecedented streak of underhand throws even AFTER the Lions game precludes any discussion of parity between him and Hoyer. People don't realize that Weeds tried that underhand at least 2 more times after the Lions game but didn't result in int's....or completions for that matter.

    You DO realize that Hoyer & Weedone played behind the same Oline last year?

    The attempted underhand throws netted Weedone an interception and "0" completions, and you're wondering why this technique isn't more widely adopted by other NFL QB's?

    @canton-dawg said:

    You DO realize that Hoyer & Weedone played behind the same Oline last year?

    Yes, Hoyer could manage that because he could actually read defense's and call plays that enabled him to get the ball out quick. He's the kind of qb that can look good taking a few steps, weedon isn't capable of that. That being said there are obviously throws that weedon is technically capable of making that Hoyer isn't if he's given the time to plant and throw after a 4 or more step drop. Something our line was incapable of giving him last year.

    The attempted underhand throws netted Weedone an interception and "0" completions, and you're wondering why this technique isn't more widely adopted by other NFL QB's?

    I'm not wondering that at all. I brought them up to highlight why Weedon isn't here anymore nor will do much anywhere else....because I can't think of a single qb that would repeat such a pass thinking I'll show these fans, this time it'll work. Which is exactly why I think Weedon tried it not once more not twice more but 3 times after. That's why there's no comparison to him and Hoyer and the above poster who made it....is on drugs.

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