Crazy Start to 2014 Season

ATENEARS

@tour2ma said:

Ate-near-everything is just carrying over a "discussion point" from another thread. A point we did not even disagree upon...

(but shhhhh.... he thinks we did)...

Huh? Have I even addressed you in this thread?

The Cysko Kid

@mudfly said:

He's not perfect, but I dont see issues compared to last year....he looks just the same or slightly better...

2013 Passing PCT=59% Passer rating = 82.6

2014 Passing PCT= 60% Passer rating = 87.9

So, actually a bit better. And IF we're gonna rate him after 2 games, then lets compare fairly....right now, his passer rating is #6 in the AFC and is currently rated higher than:

Tom Brady

Drew Brees

Peyton Manning

Andrew Luck

Phillip Rivers

And he is now 4-1 as a starter on a "supposedly" horrible team.....

He's doing the job he's supposed to be doing.....

Great post. Hoyer is doing fine. Better than fine great even. What more could we expect of the guy?

Drew Brees is spectacular and where are the saints?

The Gipper

@tour2ma said:

As of this writing there are 16 teams at 1-1... and with the right winners after MNF there could be 20.

Undefeated include Buffalo and AZ...

Winless include NOLA and KC...

Geno Smith owns a league leading 82.1 completion percentage while DA is 3rd at 70.6%.

A rookie RB out of Townsend in tied for 3rd in rushing yardage with 168.

Our D has allowed 450 ypg... only ATL's has allowed more (472). Both teams are 1-1...

We faced two of the very best QBs in the league. Only the names of Brady, Manning, Rodgers may be better than Brees and BR. Now comes Flacco...who, quite honestly I do not rate as highly as the two we just faced, not that he cannot be very good.

Tour2ma

And the 1-1 count now stands at 18...

Speaking of weird...

The scroll at the bottom of the screen on ESPN last night included an item that read:

"Manziel: 0/1 passing; Handed off twice."

Laughed so hard I almost woke the wife. When in the history of the game has a QB's hand-off count been noteworthy?

miktoxic

the only duck i saw come out of a brown's QB's hands was the one from manziel.

looked like a gyroscope trainer for astronauts.

WudupDAWG

@tour2ma said:

The scroll at the bottom of the screen on ESPN last night included an item that read:

"Manziel: 0/1 passing; Handed off twice."

Laughed so hard I almost woke the wife. When in the history of the game has a QB's hand-off count been noteworthy?

When a team is so dumb they only let their 1st round draft pick in the game to hand the ball off twice. It's noteworthy because the Browns are benching the most exciting player on the team. BTW, nice drop there Agnew. Kudos to Brian Hoyer for making the most out of his opportunities, I have been impressed with his play thus far. But let's be honest, most people would agree they'd rather watch Manziel win than Brian Hoyer win. Unless you are a Cleveland homer, then you'd want the local boy to win, I get it.

miktoxic

@wudupdawg said:
When a team is so dumb they only let their 1st round draft pick in the game to hand the ball off twice. It's noteworthy because the Browns are benching the most exciting player on the team. BTW, nice drop there Agnew. Kudos to Brian Hoyer for making the most out of his opportunities, I have been impressed with his play thus far. But let's be honest, most people would agree they'd rather watch Manziel win than Brian Hoyer win. Unless you are a Cleveland homer, then you'd want the local boy to win, I get it.

then you'll get it when i say fuck off and get lost.

hoyer has played great except for an inept 1st half of the first game of the year. manziel got a taste of the speed and action at this level (not pre-season) and i'm sure he was happy to go back and take the clipboard before he got broken in half.

so let's change a winning product (hoyer 4-1) for a guy that you followed in college and believe that 'everyone' would rather watch him. it was pretty funny last night and today to see all the talking heads that called for manziel to be the starter, do a 360 and actually make fun of his performance.

i'm sure there'll be more of that to follow if shanny continues to try and ween the kid into the nfl by inserting him into every game.

now that is stupid.

Ibleedbrown

@tour2ma said:

And the 1-1 count now stands at 18...

Speaking of weird...

The scroll at the bottom of the screen on ESPN last night included an item that read:

"Manziel: 0/1 passing; Handed off twice."

Laughed so hard I almost woke the wife. When in the history of the game has a QB's hand-off count been noteworthy?

Sounds like they wanted to convey how many plays he was in on. Like he was basically given a series. I did notice all 3 plays were shown in a highlight thing l saw.

Clevfan4life

I'm all for Shanny play action packages with Manziel....I think giving him 10 or so snaps a game isn't a half bad idea, depending on the team. But yeah let's not carried away, he's far from being able to run the offense the entire game. If a team spent all week prepping for just him it would get ugly quick.

Mudfly

@wudupdawg said:
. But let's be honest, most people would agree they'd rather watch Manziel win than Brian Hoyer win.

THAT might be the dumbest thing I've ever heard.....why would a win from JFF be better than a win from Hoyer?......makes zero sense.

And the "most people" you mentioned are not even fans or people we care one cent about. Just a bunch of Johnny groupies that we wish we never had to deal with....and, yes, FANS of the Browns would prefer a home town guy, but would love ANYONE who wins.....

It's just the JFF lovers who aren't happy with Hoyer wins, not Browns fans.....

ATENEARS

@miktoxic said:

the only duck i saw come out of a brown's QB's hands was the one from manziel.

looked like a gyroscope trainer for astronauts.

You do realize that Agnew wiffed on a block, rolled on the ground, then got up and found the flat before Manziel bounced a pass off his palms, right? Not sure I understand the gyroscope comment. If you pick-up the play just after Agnew bounces himself off the ground, he appears open and Manziel appears to bail on the pocket early, but considering it's his first ever regular season pass, and Agnew came off the floor to pop up open, it wasn't a bad roll-out to buy time ... AND Agnew very much should have caught that pass.

The ball had no wobble at all, wasn't rocketed and wasn't floated. Again, not sure what the gyroscope reference intention was all about.

ATENEARS

@miktoxic said:

then you'll get it when i say fuck off and get lost.

hoyer has played great except for an inept 1st half of the first game of the year. manziel got a taste of the speed and action at this level (not pre-season) and i'm sure he was happy to go back and take the clipboard before he got broken in half.

so let's change a winning product (hoyer 4-1) for a guy that you followed in college and believe that 'everyone' would rather watch him. it was pretty funny last night and today to see all the talking heads that called for manziel to be the starter, do a 360 and actually make fun of his performance.

i'm sure there'll be more of that to follow if shanny continues to try and ween the kid into the nfl by inserting him into every game.

now that is stupid.

The offense was stale for a few series before they gave the nod to Manziel, and although Johnny didn't physically spark the play, the tempo DID change after the experiment. See below, sequence leading up and sequence after the Johnny Football experiment:

Hoyer pass incomplete short right to 16-A.Hawkins

run 2-yrds

Hoyer pass incomplete short right to 16-A.Hawkins

punt

~~~~~~~~~~~~ New series:

run

Hoyer pass incomplete short right to 16-A.Hawkins

run

(holding call)

Hoyer pass incomplete short middle to 11-T.Benjamin.

punt

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ New series:

Run

Run (Manziel)

Manziel pass incomplete short left to 48-R.Agnew

Hoyer pass short left to 82-G.Barnidge to CLE 41 for 13 yards

Run

12-men on field -5yrds

Hoyer pass short right to 19-M.Austin to CLE 47 for 8 yards

Hoyer pass short left to 19-M.Austin to NO 47 for 6 yards

Run

Hoyer pass short right to 16-A.Hawkins ran ob at NO 9 for 10 yards

Run

Run (Touchdown!)

Huge credit to Hoyer to stepping up his play and rising to the challenge, but the point of my post is that it wasn't "stupid" to try another tool from the woodshed, and regardless of the success, it somehow DID spark the play of the TEAM and we started to roll again.

Johnny Manziel is a Cleveland Brown, stop hating.

Mudfly

I think having JFF run a few plays also creates extra work for the next team.....just an added thing to prep for.

So for 3 quick plays, even though they didnt accomplish much, they did seem to spark Hoyer, get JFF a few live reps AND take away some prep time from the Ravens....so, I think it was a good "thinking" move and as long as they dont get cute and mess up Hoyers rhythm, why not?

The fact that they were thinking about it, but didn't do it in the first game, tells me they are trying to be careful and not psych Hoyer out...

Tour2ma

@wudupdawg said:
When a team is so dumb they only let their 1st round draft pick in the game to hand the ball off twice. But let's be honest, most people would agree they'd rather watch Manziel win than Brian Hoyer win.

You are forgetting his first incompletion... it was classic Manziel.

The operative word in your "honest" assessment is "win" and our dumb staff have chosen their winner...

@clevfan4life said:
I'm all for Shanny play action packages with Manziel....I think giving him 10 or so snaps a game isn't a half bad idea, depending on the team. But yeah let's not carried away, he's far from being able to run the offense the entire game. If a team spent all week prepping for just him it would get ugly quick.

Ten? Yeah not half bad... more like completely bad.

Pettine showed the threat thus continuing the threat. Three plays, netting zero yards, but including one pass was enough to keep the opposition preparing for two QBs.

RoyceRolls

I feel better about Johnny's chances for success with every game he doesn't start. For everyone complaining about a first round pick not starting: you are Retarded and your argument is Retarded.

Tour2ma

@atenears said:

You do realize that Agnew wiffed on a block, rolled on the ground, then got up and found the flat before Manziel bounced a pass off his palms, right? Not sure I understand the gyroscope comment. If you pick-up the play just after Agnew bounces himself off the ground, he appears open and Manziel appears to bail on the pocket early, but considering it's his first ever regular season pass, and Agnew came off the floor to pop up open, it wasn't a bad roll-out to buy time ... AND Agnew very much should have caught that pass.

The ball had no wobble at all, wasn't rocketed and wasn't floated. Again, not sure what the gyroscope reference intention was all about.

Partial credit...

Slight wobble can be seen in the end zone, ground level reply just prior to the catch...
Agnew's "whiff" looked designed to me. I say this in part because Dray stayed in to block on that side and immediately picked up the "whiffee". Can't say this is fact, but looks like it to me.
Agree on the Agnew being open when he got up. Whether intentional or not, JM looked away from the left and down the center of the field at same time and the D moved with JM's eyes making Agnew more open.
Looked like JM guided the pass... no zip on it, but it did have a hump and a slight wobble. First pass syndrome? Had time to think syndrome? I have seen JM throw crisp passes across his body rolling left so it was not ability.
Agnew "caught" it. He was not able to put it away mostly due to a good, jarring hit by a hard closing Byrd (#31). Agnew was in the process of pulling it in when he was hit. More zip and maybe it's a completion... If it's a WR instead of a FB, maybe the throw that was made would have been good enough.

@atenears said:

The offense was stale for a few series before they gave the nod to Manziel, and although Johnny didn't physically spark the play, the tempo DID change after the experiment. See below, sequence leading up and sequence after the Johnny Football experiment:

Hoyer pass incomplete short right to 16-A.Hawkins

run 2-yrds

Hoyer pass incomplete short right to 16-A.Hawkins

punt

~~~~~~~~~~~~ New series:

run 9 yds

run 1 yd - 1st down

Hoyer pass incomplete short right to 16-A.Hawkins

run 3 yds Manziel in

Hoyer pass short left to 16-A.Hawkins to 50 for 22 yards (holding call) no play

3rd & 17 Hoyer pass incomplete short middle to 11-T.Benjamin.

punt

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ New series:

Run 9 yds

Run (NOT Manziel... Hoyer) 2 yds - 1st down

Run (Manziel)

Manziel pass incomplete short left to 48-R.Agnew

Hoyer pass short left to 82-G.Barnidge to CLE 41 for 13 yards

Run

12-men on field -5yrds

Hoyer pass short right to 19-M.Austin to CLE 47 for 8 yards

Hoyer pass short left to 19-M.Austin to NO 47 for 6 yards

Run

Run

Run

Hoyer pass short right to 16-A.Hawkins ran ob at NO 9 for 10 yards

Run

Run (Touchdown!)

Huge credit to Hoyer to stepping up his play and rising to the challenge, but the point of my post is that it wasn't "stupid" to try another tool from the woodshed, and regardless of the success, it somehow DID spark the play of the TEAM and we started to roll again.

Johnny Manziel is a Cleveland Brown, stop hating.

Yes... running two plays for -3 yards and leaving BH to face a 3rd and 13 was both inspirational and directly responsible for the ensuing TD.

Or maybe it was the conversion of the 3rd and 13 that fired up the team... tough call there.

It was not stupid, but it was also not responsible... IMO.

I've corrected (JM did not play three snaps in a row) and completed your play sequences adding some pertinent down and distance info. Was the info left out intentionally for effect?

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2014091403/2014/REG2/saints@browns#menu=gameinfo&tab=analyze&analyze=playbyplay

Not hating... just not blinded by love...

Kumbaya out...

D Bone

@wudupdawg said:
When a team is so dumb they only let their 1st round draft pick in the game to hand the ball off twice. It's noteworthy because the Browns are benching the most exciting player on the team. BTW, nice drop there Agnew. Kudos to Brian Hoyer for making the most out of his opportunities, I have been impressed with his play thus far. But let's be honest, most people would agree they'd rather watch Manziel win than Brian Hoyer win. Unless you are a Cleveland homer, then you'd want the local boy to win, I get it.

Go back to whackin' it to your Johnny poster, manlover.

hoorta

@atenears said:

He threw one maybe two ducks. One was early on, he threw deep, intended receiver was rounding at about the 5-yrdline and the ball apparently was so wounded like that no one could judge where it was gonna come down and it hit 10-15 yards away from everyone. Can't believe that wasn't better played by the Saints.

All-n-all I'm just yanking chains. I love the kid. Love that he is local, that he's winning ball games, a great kid and well schooled. Kid has a lot of distraction to funnel out with Manziel in the house (actually in everyone's house on the TV set and on sports center). I'd like to see lasers though on the intermediate routes though ... who wouldn't?

OK, the deep bomb to Benjamin was not only slightly underthrown, it was into double coverage too. Wasn't a really terrible pass IMHO.

@wudupdawg said:
When a team is so dumb they only let their 1st round draft pick in the game to hand the ball off twice. It's noteworthy because the Browns are benching the most exciting player on the team. BTW, nice drop there Agnew. Kudos to Brian Hoyer for making the most out of his opportunities, I have been impressed with his play thus far. But let's be honest, most people would agree they'd rather watch Manziel win than Brian Hoyer win. Unless you are a Cleveland homer, then you'd want the local boy to win, I get it.

Yes, Johnny looked really impressive on his one pass showing off his spin move- that he didn't have to do.

Know what excites us Browns fans? Wins. Hoyer has two fourth quarter game winning drives to his credit. If the game winner Sunday against the Saints had been a playoff game, they'd be ranking it right up there with Elway's "The Drive".

miktoxic

@atenears said:
not sure what the gyroscope reference intention was all about.

no imagination or sense of humor.

now i know why you stay gone on this board for 10 months out of the year.

ATENEARS

@miktoxic said:

no imagination or sense of humor.

now i know why you stay gone on this board for 10 months out of the year.

Your posts read like they are being viewed through a gyroscope ... and that you have Manziel penis envy.