Crazy Start to 2014 Season
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Still looked like an attempt for the coaching staff to throw in a different look and/or feel in order to break-up some stale series, no matter how you doctor it up with "pertinent down and distance info".
Doctor up?
You omitted that a first down completion was negated by a holding penalty and the fact that the subsequent 3rd down not converted was a 3rd and 17. And I doctored up the play sequence?
Doctor up?
You omitted that a first down completion was negated by a holding penalty and the fact that the subsequent 3rd down not converted was a 3rd and 17. And I doctored up the play sequence?
So now we are factoring Hoyer's passing stats negated by penalty into the equation? Nice!
Maybe I left off the downs on those particular plays because I left off the down on EVERY play I listed? Doh! It was a generalization, Barney.
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I don't see what you're seeing in a recharged attack via Johnny.
I DO see a strategy in which the Browns will throw whatever they can at their opposition in order to keep their offense on the field and put points up on the board... And if that includes tossing Johnny in there for a play here and there, then I'm all for it.
As a Browns fan, I don't care who gets my team wins. As long as they win. Hoyer hasn't been perfect by any means, but he's been good enough to inspire confidence. And he's winning. And as much as I want to see Manziel tear up this league in Cleveland, I'd be ecstatic to never have that opportunity because the guy in front of him continues to do what he's been doing.
My thoughts exactly.
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It was fun watching Farve win at GB, but eventually Rogers beat him out and continued to win.
More like the pack got tired of Favre's bullshit and sent him packing. Brian will not make it easy for this staff to make the change.
No I disagree. First Manziels pass was not a wobbler, Agnew just whiffed it period...not gonna come down hard on a FB though those kinds of passes are not what they're usually built to catch. Second, Hoyer can't run Shanahans bread and butter plays. Manziel can. Why on earth would we not try it a couple times a game at the right times? If Hoyer is stalling out, which will happen from time to time...there's no reason on earth not to freshen up the defense with those read option plays. In 2 or 3 years that's going to be our offense and johnny's gonna be running it so might as well give him some reps now.
On the JM pass to Agnew, I have the tape on my side...
Besides the read option, which is not a wise NFL play, what can "bread and butter" can't BH run better? Before JM keeps and runs ten of them, any QB discussion will be over for 2014.
The initial JM insertion... sure why not... but the team was moving prior to the 2nd insertion.
More like the pack got tired of Favre's bullshit and sent him packing. Brian will not make it easy for this staff to make the change.
On the JM pass to Agnew, I have the tape on my side...
Besides the read option, which is not a wise NFL play, what can "bread and butter" can't BH run better? Before JM keeps and runs ten of them, any QB discussion will be over for 2014.
The initial JM insertion... sure why not... but the team was moving prior to the 2nd insertion.
Oh there is no qb discussion for 2014, I'm completely in agreement. I do not want to see JM start a single game this year. I'm just saying a couple snaps a game in the appropriate situation I think is a good idea. And I don't know what video you're looking at but JM only threw one pass against the Saints on sunday and it's easy to find the video. Just watched it, don't see any wobble to it but maybe the angle isn't right. It just looks like he overthrew Agnew. One of our receivers probably makes that catch, just not our FB. Can't be asking 270lb FB's to stretch out much for passes. I'm not gonna condemn either player for that miss.
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Doctor up?
You omitted that a first down completion was negated by a holding penalty and the fact that the subsequent 3rd down not converted was a 3rd and 17. And I doctored up the play sequence?
So now we are factoring Hoyer's passing stats negated by penalty into the equation? Nice!
Maybe I left off the downs on those particular plays because I left off the down on EVERY play I listed? Doh! It was a generalization, Barney.
So now we are factoring Hoyer's passing stats negated by penalty into the equation? Nice!
Maybe I left off the downs on those particular plays because I left off the down on EVERY play I listed? Doh! It was a generalization, Barney.
Generalization? Nah... dishonesty... that which does not support your point must be omitted or altered.
When you edit a simple copy & paste, it is for a reason...
When you chose to pretend that I'm altering stats, it is for a reason...
Left in the information that you omitted, and I reinserted, adds context that IMO undermines your position...
Here's the straight copy/ paste of Q3's first series... Manziel's good series...
1-10-CLE 15 (14:56) 28-T.West right tackle to CLE 24 for 9 yards (93-J.Galette; 57-D.Hawthorne). Pitch out
2-1-CLE 24 (14:32) (No Huddle) 28-T.West left guard to CLE 25 for 1 yard (57-D.Hawthorne).
1-10-CLE 25 (14:10) (No Huddle) 6-B.Hoyer pass incomplete short right to 16-A.Hawkins.
2-10-CLE 25 (14:07) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 34-I.Crowell left guard to CLE 28 for 3 yards (76-A.Hicks). #2 Manziel in @ QB
3-7-CLE 28 (13:30) (Shotgun) 6-B.Hoyer pass short left to 16-A.Hawkins to 50 for 22 yards (31-J.Byrd). PENALTY on CLE-73-J.Thomas, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at CLE 28 - No Play. #6 Hoyer back in at QB
3-17-CLE 18 (13:00) (Shotgun) 6-B.Hoyer pass incomplete short middle to 11-T.Benjamin.
4-17-CLE 18 (12:56) (Punt formation) 5-S.Lanning punts 39 yards to NO 43, Center-57-C.Yount, fair catch by 10-B.Cooks
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
The scroll at the bottom of the screen on ESPN last night included an item that read:
"Manziel: 0/1 passing; Handed off twice."
Laughed so hard I almost woke the wife. When in the history of the game has a QB's hand-off count been noteworthy?
When a team is so dumb they only let their 1st round draft pick in the game to hand the ball off twice. It's noteworthy because the Browns are benching the most exciting player on the team. BTW, nice drop there Agnew. Kudos to Brian Hoyer for making the most out of his opportunities, I have been impressed with his play thus far. But let's be honest, most people would agree they'd rather watch Manziel win than Brian Hoyer win. Unless you are a Cleveland homer, then you'd want the local boy to win, I get it.
When a team is so dumb they only let their 1st round draft pick in the game to hand the ball off twice. It's noteworthy because the Browns are benching the most exciting player on the team. BTW, nice drop there Agnew. Kudos to Brian Hoyer for making the most out of his opportunities, I have been impressed with his play thus far. But let's be honest, most people would agree they'd rather watch Manziel win than Brian Hoyer win. Unless you are a Cleveland homer, then you'd want the local boy to win, I get it.
We would rather watch Hoyer win than Manziel lose. Simple as that.
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It's the pitter patter of little (JFF) feet that keeps him nervous.
Mudfly said;
" It's just the JFF lovers who aren't happy with Hoyer wins, not Browns fans....."
That is totally unfair to us and totally untrue. Just because I think JFF will eventually win the job does not mean I want to see the Browns lose. Case in point. It was fun watching Farve win at GB, but eventually Rogers beat him out and continued to win. I doubt anyone who was following Rogers and the Packers wanted to see the Packers lose just so Farve could be replaced.
Ag, we know you're here not just for JF, so it's all good. And actually Johnny wears size 15 clodhoppers- pretty amazing for a guy that's a tad short of 6', not exactly little feet.
Ag, we know you're here not just for JF, so it's all good. And actually Johnny wears size 15 clodhoppers- pretty amazing for a guy that's a tad short of 6', not exactly little feet.
LOL
-actually I knew that about him, but it was just much too fun to pass up the old saying. And I also believe it got Hoyer back on track. That's a case of a coach knowing how competitive his two guys are with one another for the betterment of the team. And I also agree that now everyone else has to spend extra time game planning for him as well as Hoyer. I think Pettine is proving to be the coach everyone here has been looking for well before I showed up as a new Browns fan. -
I just re-watched in slow-mo the pass from JM to Agnew. He threw it as a touch pass to a FB, but Agnew actually caught it with both hands, brought it in and coughed it up on the hit by the DB. So not only was it catchable, it was caught and then dropped. Guess he needs to go to the Jimmy Graham school of "good hands people".
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Why did this thread deteriorate into a JFF thread?
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Why did this thread deteriorate into a JFF thread?
Why did this thread deteriorate into a JFF thread?
Hoyer had an excellent game-back on track!
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Why did this thread deteriorate into a JFF thread?
Why did this thread deteriorate into a JFF thread?
stan had a plan.
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So now we are factoring Hoyer's passing stats negated by penalty into the equation? Nice!
Maybe I left off the downs on those particular plays because I left off the down on EVERY play I listed? Doh! It was a generalization, Barney.
Generalization? Nah... dishonesty... that which does not support your point must be omitted or altered.
When you edit a simple copy & paste, it is for a reason...
When you chose to pretend that I'm altering stats, it is for a reason...
Left in the information that you omitted, and I reinserted, adds context that IMO undermines your position...
Here's the straight copy/ paste of Q3's first series... Manziel's good series...
1-10-CLE 15 (14:56) 28-T.West right tackle to CLE 24 for 9 yards (93-J.Galette; 57-D.Hawthorne). Pitch out
2-1-CLE 24 (14:32) (No Huddle) 28-T.West left guard to CLE 25 for 1 yard (57-D.Hawthorne).
1-10-CLE 25 (14:10) (No Huddle) 6-B.Hoyer pass incomplete short right to 16-A.Hawkins.
2-10-CLE 25 (14:07) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 34-I.Crowell left guard to CLE 28 for 3 yards (76-A.Hicks). #2 Manziel in @ QB
3-7-CLE 28 (13:30) (Shotgun) 6-B.Hoyer pass short left to 16-A.Hawkins to 50 for 22 yards (31-J.Byrd). PENALTY on CLE-73-J.Thomas, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at CLE 28 - No Play. #6 Hoyer back in at QB
3-17-CLE 18 (13:00) (Shotgun) 6-B.Hoyer pass incomplete short middle to 11-T.Benjamin.
4-17-CLE 18 (12:56) (Punt formation) 5-S.Lanning punts 39 yards to NO 43, Center-57-C.Yount, fair catch by 10-B.Cooks
Generalization? Nah... dishonesty... that which does not support your point must be omitted or altered.
When you edit a simple copy & paste, it is for a reason...
When you chose to pretend that I'm altering stats, it is for a reason...
Left in the information that you omitted, and I reinserted, adds context that IMO undermines your position...
Here's the straight copy/ paste of Q3's first series... Manziel's good series...
1-10-CLE 15 (14:56) 28-T.West right tackle to CLE 24 for 9 yards (93-J.Galette; 57-D.Hawthorne). Pitch out
2-1-CLE 24 (14:32) (No Huddle) 28-T.West left guard to CLE 25 for 1 yard (57-D.Hawthorne).
1-10-CLE 25 (14:10) (No Huddle) 6-B.Hoyer pass incomplete short right to 16-A.Hawkins.
2-10-CLE 25 (14:07) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 34-I.Crowell left guard to CLE 28 for 3 yards (76-A.Hicks). #2 Manziel in @ QB
3-7-CLE 28 (13:30) (Shotgun) 6-B.Hoyer pass short left to 16-A.Hawkins to 50 for 22 yards (31-J.Byrd). PENALTY on CLE-73-J.Thomas, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at CLE 28 - No Play. #6 Hoyer back in at QB
3-17-CLE 18 (13:00) (Shotgun) 6-B.Hoyer pass incomplete short middle to 11-T.Benjamin.
4-17-CLE 18 (12:56) (Punt formation) 5-S.Lanning punts 39 yards to NO 43, Center-57-C.Yount, fair catch by 10-B.Cooks
What no color highlights?
Geez, at least I used color and simplified things so no one was flat out board from all the technical mumbo-jumbo.
If you think I was dishonest and altered stats to fit my agenda on this one, stick around the bullshit gets better the more relevant the topic.
You lost me at "Here's the straight copy ..." I think I actually yawned.
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Why did this thread deteriorate into a JFF thread?
stan had a plan.
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I just re-watched in slow-mo the pass from JM to Agnew. He threw it as a touch pass to a FB, but Agnew actually caught it with both hands, brought it in and coughed it up on the hit by the DB. So not only was it catchable, it was caught and then dropped. Guess he needs to go to the Jimmy Graham school of "good hands people".
I just re-watched in slow-mo the pass from JM to Agnew. He threw it as a touch pass to a FB, but Agnew actually caught it with both hands, brought it in and coughed it up on the hit by the DB. So not only was it catchable, it was caught and then dropped. Guess he needs to go to the Jimmy Graham school of "good hands people".
Your "touch pass" is my "guided, not cut loose", your "brought" is my "bringing", but we are seeing pretty much the same thing.
Had JM cut it loose, as he can cross-body, it might have been put away before the hit came.
Or bounced off Agnew's face mask...
...I don't know what video you're looking at but JM only threw one pass against the Saints on sunday and it's easy to find the video. Just watched it, don't see any wobble to it but maybe the angle isn't right.
When I first saw it live, I thought it clearly wobbled. Not so much when I re-watched it. But in the replay from the end zone angle it does show up just prior to the ball getting to Agnew. It almost takes a slo-mo look since the ball is not in that shot for most of its travel.
But regardless wobble was not a catch/ no catch factor... velocity, or rather lack thereof, may have been.
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Tour- at the risk of being accused on continuing the thread derailment, my question would be how well does Agnew catch passes that are zipped to him? Reason I ask is that I know from 2 years of watching him that JM definitely held back on that throw. So was he guiding because of who was catching or was he doing it because he was throwing his first pass and was trying to be sure of it?
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Agnew was the same guy JFF didn't want to throw to during one of the preseason games. He passed on a wide open shot in the flat and carried it instead.
Could it be JFF doesnt trust Agnew?? OR couldit be that JFF doesn't see him soon enough? OR could it be that JFF is always trying for the big play and not mature enough(yet) to take the sure yards?
My take on the Agnew drop was that he caught it, had it in his hands and then took a hard hit on the hands before he got the ball wrapped up.
Some credit goes to the defender for a good hit. Some receivers would have held that ball, but a lot would have dropped it too.
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Tour- at the risk of being accused on continuing the thread derailment, my question would be how well does Agnew catch passes that are zipped to him? Reason I ask is that I know from 2 years of watching him that JM definitely held back on that throw. So was he guiding because of who was catching or was he doing it because he was throwing his first pass and was trying to be sure of it?
...or was he doing it because he was throwing his first pass and was trying to be sure of it?
My take on it was that he "aimed it", but other than JM who knows...
Some credit goes to the defender for a good hit. Some receivers would have held that ball, but a lot would have dropped it too.
My take as well... Byrd closed fast and played a very good game.
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It's called a conspiracy. Don't make me bring Lumbergh back.
wasn't here for the lumbergh era.......but heard all about it.
no thank you.
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wasn't here for the lumbergh era.......but heard all about it.
Did he write the CCR hit "Brady Q"?
"Oh Brady Q,
Oh Brady Q,
Oh Brady Q, baby I love you...
... Brady Q"
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
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what i know about lumbergh vs. mark o was a classic brady queef vs. doofus anderson thing.
can't say more than that.
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