Mingo
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Just an old guy's opinion.
The best kind of opinions...
IMO...
You are correct. He can get ANYWHERE on the field with his atheltic ability.
For me I see a lack of discipline.
The only reason Von miller was so successful early on is that he was accustomed to the joker position at A&M.
Agree on the discipline angle. I doubt Les asked him to do much at LSU beyond raise hell and react.
While I think Mingo is "athletic", he earns that description due to his speed and acceleration.
I think Miller makes for an interesting comparison. I think Von came into the league stronger and better proportioned with more agility than Mingo. I think Von's agility makes him the better athelete.
Both players had similar combine results in dash times (identical at 10 yds), identical verticals and close standing broads. So if you believe in those things, both are close in "explosiveness".
But Von smoked Barky in the shuttle and came close to doing the same in the 3-cone. I think the agility these show has led Von to greater early success in the NFL as much as anything.
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=70987&draftyear=2011&genpos=olb
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=89707&draftyear=2013&genpos=OLB
The best kind of opinions...
IMO...
Agree on the discipline angle. I doubt Les asked him to do much at LSU beyond raise hell and react.
While I think Mingo is "athletic", he earns that description due to his speed and acceleration.
I think Miller makes for an interesting comparison. I think Von came into the league stronger and better proportioned with more agility than Mingo. I think Von's agility makes him the better athelete.
Both players had similar combine results in dash times (identical at 10 yds), identical verticals and close standing broads. So if you believe in those things, both are close in "explosiveness".
But Von smoked Barky in the shuttle and came close to doing the same in the 3-cone. I think the agility these show has led Von to greater early success in the NFL as much as anything.
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=70987&draftyear=2011&genpos=olb
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=89707&draftyear=2013&genpos=OLB
Yea, but remember, a lot of Von Miller's performance was "enhanced".
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The best kind of opinions...
IMO...
Agree on the discipline angle. I doubt Les asked him to do much at LSU beyond raise hell and react.
While I think Mingo is "athletic", he earns that description due to his speed and acceleration.
I think Miller makes for an interesting comparison. I think Von came into the league stronger and better proportioned with more agility than Mingo. I think Von's agility makes him the better athelete.
Both players had similar combine results in dash times (identical at 10 yds), identical verticals and close standing broads. So if you believe in those things, both are close in "explosiveness".
But Von smoked Barky in the shuttle and came close to doing the same in the 3-cone. I think the agility these show has led Von to greater early success in the NFL as much as anything.
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=70987&draftyear=2011&genpos=olb
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=89707&draftyear=2013&genpos=OLB
Yea, but remember, a lot of Von Miller's performance was "enhanced".
Yea, but remember, a lot of Von Miller's performance was "enhanced".
I do not believe I exaggerated one iota...
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He's all over the field but never where he should be. Never the guy making the initial tackle. Gets pushed around. He was the "freak athlete" pick like JPP. At least JPP had one good year.
Not ready to give up on him yet, but he's been really disappointing so far.
I agree, but would cut ties with him now.He's all over the field but never where he should be. Never the guy making the initial tackle. Gets pushed around. He was the "freak athlete" pick like JPP. At least JPP had one good year.
Not ready to give up on him yet, but he's been really disappointing so far.
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Courtney Brown.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
why are we grading Mingo on tackling? All OLB'ers in the 3-4 will make the tackles from behind because that's the position their put in. Kruger's been doing the same why is no one thinking about that? If you're an OLB'er and doing your job in run defense, you've held up at the point and if the runner goes to the outside you lunge at him to push him wide, if he goes inside you release off your blocker and try to dive at his back. Just trip him up in some way. OLB'ers are not expected to meet the runners in the hole, why are all of you missing that? You know who's responsibility it is to meet the runners in the hole and blow them up? The ILB'ers...which on our team mean Karlos Dansby and Christian Kirksey. Both of whom have been getting gashed by RB's so far this season. I'd let it slide if the name Adrian Peterson or Jamaal Charles was in there somewhere...but we've had 2nd, 3rd and annoyingly, a 4th stringer last sunday, blow us the fuck up. Dansby is not who we hoped he would be up to this point. So far DQ is having a better season in Indy it looks like, and I don't think that defense is as loaded as ours is..especially with Mathis out.
Yeah totally agree buy a huge part of being a defensive player is the ability to tackle no matter what position you are.
Well he tackles just fine when he's there to make the tackle. My point was that against the run his job is to seal the outside and funnel everything in. Last year he had a big problem with that, doesn't seem to be "too bad" this year...although obviously the other two guys are gonna be the big run stoppers. When Mingo is in his job should be to pass rush and cover guys out of the backfield or blanket some TE's....and be passable in run defense. Against run heavy teams Mingo should not be on the field on 1st and 2nd downs much...he should come in on 3rd downs or otherwise passing situations. But asking our OLB'ers to make plays against the run on the inside is ridiculous and gonna get them or one of our lineman hurt by them crashing down into the pile. Like I mentioned last sunday I saw kruger trying to desperately spin to the inside to make a play on the runner who was going inside of the tackle every time and getting big yards. That's putting himself out of position and potentially leading to an injury. Releasing off your guy and diving at the back of a runner is one thing, but to try to get infront of the runner after you've sealed the outside is absolutely not something you want your edges doing. That's when a good RB will bounce and now you're looking at huge yards.
Our lack of run defense is in some part on the defensive line, but in MOST part the ILB'ers. I don't know why all of you are so hesitant to call out Dansby for this. He's the defensive captain....he should be drooling in people's faces he's so mad about a 4th stringer making them look stupid.
Yeah totally agree buy a huge part of being a defensive player is the ability to tackle no matter what position you are.
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A little publication fodder for the thread...
Browns: Barkevious Mingo not being asked to rush passer
BEREA, Ohio -- Barkevious Mingo has been on the field for 101 defensive snaps this season and has no tackles for a loss and no sacks.
But that does not concern the Browns, assistant linebackers coach Brian Fleury said.
Fleury, in fact, said heâs pleased with Mingo.
âWeâre asking him to do some different things than what he did last year," Fleury said. âWhen you guys watch the film, heâs in coverage a lot more than he is going after the quarterback. I know thereâve been some questions as to why the sack numbers arenât there, and I think itâs just simply a reflection of the amount of reps heâs had rushing the quarterback relative to everybody else. Weâre happy with where he is and the production heâs given us.â
Fleury added that on many plays Mingo isnât being asked to get a sack or get into the backfield. Coach Mike Pettine constantly discusses mismatches, and clearly the Browns are trying to create one by using Mingo different from a year ago.
In the opener, it appeared the Browns wanted Mingo to rush the passer. He rushed often and came close to sacking Ben Roethlisberger on a touchdown pass, but Roethlisberger avoided the sack.
Against Baltimore, it appeared Mingo was dropped into coverage more.
âHeâs a remarkably talented athlete,â Fleury said. âHe can run like the wind and cover a lot of the guys that maybe some of the other guys canât cover. So weâre doing everything we can to take advantage of that.
âHe creates a unique mismatch because you donât know whether to identify him as a coverage linebacker or a rush end. Weâve just been using him a little bit more in the coverage phase so far.â
Pettine admitted Mingo is "battling the shoulder," referring to an injury that kept Mingo out of the win over New Orleans. Pettine added that although there's always room for improvement, Mingo is "doing his job" when he's on the field.
"I donât get caught up in the statistical part of it," Pettine said. "Iâve seen too many guys over the years, especially defensively, get criticized. Like, 'Hey, why isnât this guy playing well?' Just because itâs not on the stat sheet doesnât mean theyâre not doing their job. Weâre more concerned with a plus on the grade sheet based on our standards than anything that would show up in a game book post game."
http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns/post/_/id/8295/browns-mingo-not-being-asked-to-rush-passer -
Browns: Barkevious Mingo not being asked to rush passer
Good article and I agree. I know that many people are trashing the guy, but he is doing his job.
I was pretty shocked that the Browns often put him on the the strong side and Kruger on the weak side. He isn't going to put up good numbers over there and a bunch of people are going to rip on him, but he is a pretty good player.
I will say that if it were my team, I would utilize Mingo more as a pass rusher. He has the quickness that the others lack.
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In any case any talk about sitting him or whatnot is Retarded, Kruger and Sheard need to be spelled, we actually need to pick up a 4th OLB'er
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Courtney Brown.
WSS
1987 first round pick OLB Mike Junkin. Played in twenty games in his NFL career. And the Browns traded up to get him.Courtney Brown.
WSS
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1987 first round pick OLB Mike Junkin. Played in twenty games in his NFL career. And the Browns traded up to get him.Courtney Brown.
WSS
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Add Mingo to the long line of Courtney Brown, Gerard Warren, Kamerion Wimbley, etc.
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From ESPN 10/1:
What's for lunch?: Under the last Browns regime, Barkevious Mingo was drafted sixth overall for the role of coordinator Ray Hortonâs top pass rusher. The day Mingo was introduced, his mom was in attendance and offered up the money quote when she said, playing to the euphoria of the day, âHe likes to eat quarterbacks.â
In Mingoâs second NFL season, his appetite has changed. Or, rather, it has been changed for him.
In this age of defensive substitution, Mingo unofficially is now an outside linebacker âcoverage specialist.â
Mingo missed Game 2 against New Orleans with a shoulder injury. In his other two appearances, the stat sheet shows Mingo with eight tackles. Nothing else there, no sacks, no turnovers forced.
âWe havenât had him in a lot of situations where heâs had an opportunity to get sacks,â said coach Mike Pettine. âWeâve used (Jabaal) Sheard and (Paul) Kruger more in passing situations. Again, it falls back to not reading too much into statistics and a guy filling the grade sheet with plusses. Thatâs whatâs most important to us.
âThere are times where a guy wonât necessarily have production, but theyâll cause production. That comes with doing your job. Thatâs a big emphasis for us this week. Our mantra in all phases is do your job and good things will happen.â
When Mingo was drafted, Pettine was defensive coordinator of the Buffalo Bills, and the story told was that he and Jim OâNeil â then Buffaloâs linebackers coach and now Pettineâs coordinator â tried to sell their team on selecting Mingo. The Bills traded down and eventually took quarterback E.J. Manuel (ouch).
Pettine said he likes Mingo better in coverage because he is a little better at it than Kruger or Sheard.
âI see him as having the ability to do both (cover and rush),â Pettine said. âWe evaluated him over the other two in his drop ability. Itâs close with Mingo probably being the best, Kruger second and Jabaal third as far as ability to drop. The Sam linebacker is a very important position for us from a coverage standpoint. Thatâs just the way we decided to proceed with that rotation.â
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precisely, I like the idea of using him in coverage...but also have him get after the qb in long ydge situations. It's what he does.
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I find it strange why the coaching staff is asking him to drop more into coverage than rushing the passer. I won't discount his athletic ability being greater than Kruger or Sheard's - but that doesn't always translate to being an instinctive cover linebacker.
The kid has done nothing but have his hand in the ground and scream off the ball at opposing QB's nearly his entire football career. The staff is essentially asking him to do the opposite of that this season. If you've played the game at any position, you know that going from a down rush end, to a stand up linebacker is a bitch. Toss in having increased coverage responsibilities and I can't blame the kid for not wowing anyone.... Yet.
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I find it strange why the coaching staff is asking him to drop more into coverage than rushing the passer. I won't discount his athletic ability being greater than Kruger or Sheard's - but that doesn't always translate to being an instinctive cover linebacker.
The kid has done nothing but have his hand in the ground and scream off the ball at opposing QB's nearly his entire football career. The staff is essentially asking him to do the opposite of that this season. If you've played the game at any position, you know that going from a down rush end, to a stand up linebacker is a bitch. Toss in having increased coverage responsibilities and I can't blame the kid for not wowing anyone.... Yet.
I find it strange why the coaching staff is asking him to drop more into coverage than rushing the passer. I won't discount his athletic ability being greater than Kruger or Sheard's - but that doesn't always translate to being an instinctive cover linebacker.
Better at coverage than Kruger or Sheard would not exactly be a ringing endorsement of anyone's coverage ability...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I find it strange why the coaching staff is asking him to drop more into coverage than rushing the passer. I won't discount his athletic ability being greater than Kruger or Sheard's - but that doesn't always translate to being an instinctive cover linebacker.
Better at coverage than Kruger or Sheard would not exactly be a ringing endorsement of anyone's coverage ability...
Better at coverage than Kruger or Sheard would not exactly be a ringing endorsement of anyone's coverage ability...
Of course it isn't. However when your best option at OLB dropping into coverage is a kid that's only in his second year and the position - that presents a very serious issue.
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Just when you think Mike Lombardi's draft record can't get any worse we have the 6th overall pick in the draft playing as a part time cover linebacker in his second year.
Zombo
--Leon McFadden already cut by two teams in his second year, the third should be coming soon ...
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