Browns are Interested in Jenkins?
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It will be interesting come draft day. I see Curry and Jenkins at Tier 1. If Curry is gone...do you slightly reach on the next best LB or do you take a less needed position player like Jenkins? He'd be great "value" by most peoples standards, sure.
I can't see us letting Sean Jones go. I'm haven't seen enough of Jenkins to picture him as a SS but who knows. Josh Cribbs already stated (radio) that Mangini may use him as a safety. That throws a wrench into the situation too.
Fact of the matter...we have quite a few solid option at no.5 and in the 2nd and 3rd (hopefully trading down...which could be tough given the small group of tier 1 guys).
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@ onefell: jenkins will play FS, not SS. he's not a big enough hitter or good enough in the run game to be the enforcer of the secondary. he's more a ballhawk. (the rest of this is a general response: i just wanted to address that specific point)
overall, i agree with the sentiment that our DBs will look far better once we have a legit pass rush. however, given the depth of LBs in this draft and the possibility that we could end up getting a pass rusher in the second, jenkins in the first wouldn't be the worst pick ever.
i believe in sean jones' ability to support the run, blitz off the edge and lay receivers out. i'm not sold on his coverage ability, but a lot of that is probably because he played hurt last year. conversely, i like nothing about brodney pool. he hasn't improved over his years in the league, and with his physical ability, he should be better then just an average player. he's got the speed to be a great safety, but only the brain to make five dollar footlongs.
drafting jenkins would give us a true cover safety, something few teams have, and would open the door for truly exotic formations that few teams in the league can use because we wouldn't have to sub in an extra corner to cover a third receiver unless we wanted to play with two deep safeties. we'd be able to use the 2-5-4, a defensive formation that (i think) only arizona and baltimore can use because of ed reed and antrell rolle.
yes, our overall priority should be to improve the pass rush, but we don't have to do it in the first as long as we're sure we can do it later.
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That would move pool into the backup roll. Which would be great depth. Plus, he played some decent football when we had him switch to CB because of injuries two years ago. I actually saw him get better bit by bit each game when he was playing CB. You're right, he just hasn't progressed like we hoped.
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Since when does a good secondary not aid the pass rush? The last i checked coverage sacks do occur and you aren't exactly stout at the CB position. Is Daven Holly going to get resigned? I think Jenkins is a good pick at 5, he's a Darrelle Revis type cornerback.
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I think you will know real soon if they are interested in Jenkins. If they sign Jones and Holly then you have your answer. Personally I don't ever see them using a #5 pick in the draft on a DB. Also, how to you justify a DB when you need a ILB and OLB. If you can't stop the run and get pressure on the QB then it doesn't matter who your DBs are.
I think someone is throwing out some speculation because I don't think they have any interest. I think they have more interest in Holly and Bodden (who won't take a pick away) then Jenkins.
It's LINEBACKER.................................................What happens in FA will dictate our draft stratagy.
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Since when does a good secondary not aid the pass rush? The last i checked coverage sacks do occur and you aren't exactly stout at the CB position. Is Daven Holly going to get resigned? I think Jenkins is a good pick at 5, he's a Darrelle Revis type cornerback.
Since when does a good secondary not aid the pass rush? The last i checked coverage sacks do occur and you aren't exactly stout at the CB position. Is Daven Holly going to get resigned? I think Jenkins is a good pick at 5, he's a Darrelle Revis type cornerback.
it's not that a good secondary doesn't help the pass rush to get sacks, it's that an effective pass rush is a better tool to get to the QB than good coverage is. coverage sacks take time, and every nanosecond that a QB has increases the likelihood that one of his WRs will break away from a DB. coverage sacks force both the pass rushers and the DBs to exhaust themselves and can lead to them getting burned on the next play.
an effective pass rush compresses or eliminates the pocket time the QB has and can force him into bad decisions or make sure he doesn't get the ball out of his hands at all, which makes the secondary's job much easier. it also keeps the defense fresher because they're not running around as much.
come on, man. as a steeler fan, you see every week that an effective pass rush is one of the best tools a defense can have at its disposal. you should know this stuff.
and, yes, jenkins is an upgrade over mcdonald, but he's projected as a shutdown kinda guy. he's an upgrade over most CBs.
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Since when does a good secondary not aid the pass rush? The last i checked coverage sacks do occur and you aren't exactly stout at the CB position. Is Daven Holly going to get resigned? I think Jenkins is a good pick at 5, he's a Darrelle Revis type cornerback.
it's not that a good secondary doesn't help the pass rush to get sacks, it's that an effective pass rush is a better tool to get to the QB than good coverage is. coverage sacks take time, and every nanosecond that a QB has increases the likelihood that one of his WRs will break away from a DB. coverage sacks force both the pass rushers and the DBs to exhaust themselves and can lead to them getting burned on the next play.
an effective pass rush compresses or eliminates the pocket time the QB has and can force him into bad decisions or make sure he doesn't get the ball out of his hands at all, which makes the secondary's job much easier. it also keeps the defense fresher because they're not running around as much.
come on, man. as a steeler fan, you see every week that an effective pass rush is one of the best tools a defense can have at its disposal. you should know this stuff.
and, yes, jenkins is an upgrade over mcdonald, but he's projected as a shutdown kinda guy. he's an upgrade over most CBs.
it's not that a good secondary doesn't help the pass rush to get sacks, it's that an effective pass rush is a better tool to get to the QB than good coverage is. coverage sacks take time, and every nanosecond that a QB has increases the likelihood that one of his WRs will break away from a DB. coverage sacks force both the pass rushers and the DBs to exhaust themselves and can lead to them getting burned on the next play.
an effective pass rush compresses or eliminates the pocket time the QB has and can force him into bad decisions or make sure he doesn't get the ball out of his hands at all, which makes the secondary's job much easier. it also keeps the defense fresher because they're not running around as much.
come on, man. as a steeler fan, you see every week that an effective pass rush is one of the best tools a defense can have at its disposal. you should know this stuff.
and, yes, jenkins is an upgrade over mcdonald, but he's projected as a shutdown kinda guy. he's an upgrade over most CBs.
Of course I know and understand what it takes to have a good pass rush. I just don't think selecting Jenkins at 5 is a bad idea, you definitely need the secondary help. I also wouldn't be surprised to see Curry go as high as 3 which leaves you Brown. Would you rather have Brown than Jenkins?
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it's not that a good secondary doesn't help the pass rush to get sacks, it's that an effective pass rush is a better tool to get to the QB than good coverage is. coverage sacks take time, and every nanosecond that a QB has increases the likelihood that one of his WRs will break away from a DB. coverage sacks force both the pass rushers and the DBs to exhaust themselves and can lead to them getting burned on the next play.
an effective pass rush compresses or eliminates the pocket time the QB has and can force him into bad decisions or make sure he doesn't get the ball out of his hands at all, which makes the secondary's job much easier. it also keeps the defense fresher because they're not running around as much.
come on, man. as a steeler fan, you see every week that an effective pass rush is one of the best tools a defense can have at its disposal. you should know this stuff.
and, yes, jenkins is an upgrade over mcdonald, but he's projected as a shutdown kinda guy. he's an upgrade over most CBs.
Of course I know and understand what it takes to have a good pass rush. I just don't think selecting Jenkins at 5 is a bad idea, you definitely need the secondary help. I also wouldn't be surprised to see Curry go as high as 3 which leaves you Brown. Would you rather have Brown than Jenkins?
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it's not that a good secondary doesn't help the pass rush to get sacks, it's that an effective pass rush is a better tool to get to the QB than good coverage is. coverage sacks take time, and every nanosecond that a QB has increases the likelihood that one of his WRs will break away from a DB. coverage sacks force both the pass rushers and the DBs to exhaust themselves and can lead to them getting burned on the next play.
an effective pass rush compresses or eliminates the pocket time the QB has and can force him into bad decisions or make sure he doesn't get the ball out of his hands at all, which makes the secondary's job much easier. it also keeps the defense fresher because they're not running around as much.
come on, man. as a steeler fan, you see every week that an effective pass rush is one of the best tools a defense can have at its disposal. you should know this stuff.
and, yes, jenkins is an upgrade over mcdonald, but he's projected as a shutdown kinda guy. he's an upgrade over most CBs.
Of course I know and understand what it takes to have a good pass rush. I just don't think selecting Jenkins at 5 is a bad idea, you definitely need the secondary help. I also wouldn't be surprised to see Curry go as high as 3 which leaves you Brown. Would you rather have Brown than Jenkins?
Of course I know and understand what it takes to have a good pass rush. I just don't think selecting Jenkins at 5 is a bad idea, you definitely need the secondary help. I also wouldn't be surprised to see Curry go as high as 3 which leaves you Brown. Would you rather have Brown than Jenkins?
i'd take orakpo over both of them. he's got the strength to be a good OLB and the quickness, too, plus his play this past year was more consistent than brown's and he fills a bigger need for us than jenkins does. while our starting corners are young, have a lot to learn and need to be more consistent, our pass rush sucked ass this year. we had a total of 17 sacks in 16 games, and 4.5 of those came from our NT. meanwhile, we somehow managed to get 23 picks on the year.
i'm not saying jenkins is a bad idea per se, i just think we can use the pick to address an area of greater need with a player of comparable long-term impact. a good pass rusher is just as useful as a shutdown corner if not more so.
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Of course I know and understand what it takes to have a good pass rush. I just don't think selecting Jenkins at 5 is a bad idea, you definitely need the secondary help. I also wouldn't be surprised to see Curry go as high as 3 which leaves you Brown. Would you rather have Brown than Jenkins?
i'd take orakpo over both of them. he's got the strength to be a good OLB and the quickness, too, plus his play this past year was more consistent than brown's and he fills a bigger need for us than jenkins does. while our starting corners are young, have a lot to learn and need to be more consistent, our pass rush sucked ass this year. we had a total of 17 sacks in 16 games, and 4.5 of those came from our NT. meanwhile, we somehow managed to get 23 picks on the year.
i'm not saying jenkins is a bad idea per se, i just think we can use the pick to address an area of greater need with a player of comparable long-term impact. a good pass rusher is just as useful as a shutdown corner if not more so.
i'd take orakpo over both of them. he's got the strength to be a good OLB and the quickness, too, plus his play this past year was more consistent than brown's and he fills a bigger need for us than jenkins does. while our starting corners are young, have a lot to learn and need to be more consistent, our pass rush sucked ass this year. we had a total of 17 sacks in 16 games, and 4.5 of those came from our NT. meanwhile, we somehow managed to get 23 picks on the year.
i'm not saying jenkins is a bad idea per se, i just think we can use the pick to address an area of greater need with a player of comparable long-term impact. a good pass rusher is just as useful as a shutdown corner if not more so.
After watching Orakpo's two tackle performance against Boone in the Fiesta Bowl I was not impressed at all.
I didn't get to see him that much but I worry about him being being overrated.
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what impresses me most about orakpo is that he has a variety of moves that he can use to get to the QB. he has the outside speed rush, then to counter it he has an inside rip where he makes contact with the OT's outside shoulder with his right arm and lifts up to fire through to the inside, and he also has a bull rusher where he just pushes the OT straight back into the pocket.
it's the ability to vary his rush that will make him a success because it forces the OT to account for various rush angles and can catch him off balance. that's why i think orakpo has a good chance to be successful in the NFL and is worth the fifth overall pick.
one game doesn't change his abilities.
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what impresses me most about orakpo is that he has a variety of moves that he can use to get to the QB. he has the outside speed rush, then to counter it he has an inside rip where he makes contact with the OT's outside shoulder with his right arm and lifts up to fire through to the inside, and he also has a bull rusher where he just pushes the OT straight back into the pocket.
it's the ability to vary his rush that will make him a success because it forces the OT to account for various rush angles and can catch him off balance. that's why i think orakpo has a good chance to be successful in the NFL and is worth the fifth overall pick.
one game doesn't change his abilities.
what impresses me most about orakpo is that he has a variety of moves that he can use to get to the QB. he has the outside speed rush, then to counter it he has an inside rip where he makes contact with the OT's outside shoulder with his right arm and lifts up to fire through to the inside, and he also has a bull rusher where he just pushes the OT straight back into the pocket.
it's the ability to vary his rush that will make him a success because it forces the OT to account for various rush angles and can catch him off balance. that's why i think orakpo has a good chance to be successful in the NFL and is worth the fifth overall pick.
one game doesn't change his abilities.
I agree...One game doesn't change his abilites. But one game and good coaching can expose weaknesses.
But That's why I said I haven't really seen him that much. I just wasn't impressed with him at all in that one game. Against a line that had been generally horrible all year.
He's a physical speciman....I just worry about him. I worry about DL's that get moved the LB spot. I also worry about his health as he's had numerous injuires.
I was looking at his stats this year. In his first four games against Florida Atalntic, Rice, UTEP and Arkansas he has 17 tackles and dominated.
In his last four games against Texas Tech, Texas A&M, Kansas and OSU he had only 8 tackles and didn't do much at all.
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his last four games were after he hurt his knee. he played in two and a half out of those four for all intents and purposes. he played exceedingly sparingly against kansas, which was more of a test run to see if he'd be able to go for the rest of the season, and he missed the second half against tech.
against a&m and OSU, the two games you're talking about where he was healthy, he had seven tackles, two for loss and two and a half sacks to go along with 4 QB hurries and a forced fumble, all while being the player that opposing offenses are scheming to stop more than any other.
let's not forget that OSU played their best game of the year in that bowl game. instead of folding like they'd previously done all year, the buckeyes really played well against texas.
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his last four games were after he hurt his knee. he played in two and a half out of those four for all intents and purposes. he played exceedingly sparingly against kansas, which was more of a test run to see if he'd be able to go for the rest of the season, and he missed the second half against tech.
against a&m and OSU, the two games you're talking about where he was healthy, he had seven tackles, two for loss and two and a half sacks to go along with 4 QB hurries and a forced fumble, all while being the player that opposing offenses are scheming to stop more than any other.
let's not forget that OSU played their best game of the year in that bowl game. instead of folding like they'd previously done all year, the buckeyes really played well against texas.
his last four games were after he hurt his knee. he played in two and a half out of those four for all intents and purposes. he played exceedingly sparingly against kansas, which was more of a test run to see if he'd be able to go for the rest of the season, and he missed the second half against tech.
against a&m and OSU, the two games you're talking about where he was healthy, he had seven tackles, two for loss and two and a half sacks to go along with 4 QB hurries and a forced fumble, all while being the player that opposing offenses are scheming to stop more than any other.
let's not forget that OSU played their best game of the year in that bowl game. instead of folding like they'd previously done all year, the buckeyes really played well against texas.
Yep, you are right. The only game he was healthy for at the end was Tech. I think he missed the Baylor game completely.
While I'm not crazy about him I'd rather see him in Orange than I would Jenkins. There are worse picks than Orakpo. That is for sure.
This is what makes these kind of discussions so much fun.
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I find Orakpo and Jenkins to both be very intriguing. As JewDago already noted, Orakpo has several pass rushing moves that he can rely on. Whether or not those power moves will work in the NFL is yet to be seen.
Jenkins has to be talked about when discussing BPA. We can certainly find a spot for him on the roster.
-Al
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I always think smaller pass rushers are risky as hell, ie. Hali and Wimpley. They are really chancing it. Jenkins could be a difference maker in the secondary, but we would have to shore up the front seven in other ways.
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