Jonathan Paul Manziel
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I hope I'm wrong and the 5'9" guy that weighs 195 with a suspect mind and average arm is the next Doug Flutie but if I am, after that steaming pile of a pre-season, he would've already been given the keys to the car.
You're already wrong seeing has how he's not 5'9 but rather 5'11 3/4 and weighs 210 not 195.
A suspect mind? Who the fuck are you, Dr. Phil?
Below average arm? It's probably better than Hoyer's in all honesty. The underthrow to Gabriel was living prooof Hoyer doesn't have a great arm.
He had a better preseason than Hoyer you genius.
I'm saying if Hoyer shits the bed vs. Tampa and Oakland, you go with Manziel to see what he can do
You're already wrong seeing has how he's not 5'9 but rather 5'11 3/4 and weighs 210 not 195.
A suspect mind? Who the fuck are you, Dr. Phil?
Below average arm? It's probably better than Hoyer's in all honesty. The underthrow to Gabriel was living prooof Hoyer doesn't have a great arm.
He had a better preseason than Hoyer you genius.
I'm saying if Hoyer shits the bed vs. Tampa and Oakland, you go with Manziel to see what he can do
Sumlin's offense could be run by a guy off the street.
I never said Hoyer has a strong arm, so saying Manziel throws it harder than Pennington doesn't me he's Warren Moon.
Manziel's pre-season was primarily against 2nd and 3rd string, against the #1's game 3 he was suspect.
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Manziel just offers what Hoyer doesn't....
The ability to get outside of the pocket and make plays with his feet.
If the offensive line is going to play good, then go with Hoyer.
If the offensive line is going to suck dicks, you go with Manziel so he can avoid the pressure.
Fucking brilliant. Nevermind that the kid is still an extremely raw rookie that opposing NFL defenses will FORCE to remain in the pocket. He'll have to make throws, pure and simple. To date, he's not shown the ability
to even come close to consistently doing that.
He'll have to make throws, pure and simple. To date, he's not shown the ability
to even come close to consistently doing that.
And Brian Hoyer proved on Sunday he can't consistently do that with a wide open Jordan Cameron and Taylor Gabriel.
You have to make those throws. That's 14 points left off the board.
My argument for Manziel is that if Hoyer does this again against Tampa & Oakland, you have to go with Manziel.
Hoyer has 0 mobility so at least Manziel will be able to extend plays
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As poorly as Brian played the two gifts in the red zone were the killers.
WSS
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He'll have to make throws, pure and simple. To date, he's not shown the ability
to even come close to consistently doing that.
And Brian Hoyer proved on Sunday he can't consistently do that with a wide open Jordan Cameron and Taylor Gabriel.
You have to make those throws. That's 14 points left off the board.
My argument for Manziel is that if Hoyer does this again against Tampa & Oakland, you have to go with Manziel.
Hoyer has 0 mobility so at least Manziel will be able to extend plays
And Brian Hoyer proved on Sunday he can't consistently do that with a wide open Jordan Cameron and Taylor Gabriel.
You have to make those throws. That's 14 points left off the board.
My argument for Manziel is that if Hoyer does this again against Tampa & Oakland, you have to go with Manziel.
Hoyer has 0 mobility so at least Manziel will be able to extend plays
Your definition of mobility is having wheels to haul ass, my definition of mobility is a QB that can slide in the pocket when he senses pressure. The latter is generally the far more successful of the two.
As for Hoyer, he has one bad. One, and you throw this tangent out there? GTFO. Hoyer has had several games with great throws and consistent touch and Foosball can't quite dream of.
That said, I see you've been smoking some good shit again.
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And Brian Hoyer proved on Sunday he can't consistently do that with a wide open Jordan Cameron and Taylor Gabriel.
You have to make those throws. That's 14 points left off the board.
My argument for Manziel is that if Hoyer does this again against Tampa & Oakland, you have to go with Manziel.
Hoyer has 0 mobility so at least Manziel will be able to extend plays
Your definition of mobility is having wheels to haul ass, my definition of mobility is a QB that can slide in the pocket when he senses pressure. The latter is generally the far more successful of the two.
As for Hoyer, he has one bad. One, and you throw this tangent out there? GTFO. Hoyer has had several games with great throws and consistent touch and Foosball can't quite dream of.
That said, I see you've been smoking some good shit again.
Your definition of mobility is having wheels to haul ass, my definition of mobility is a QB that can slide in the pocket when he senses pressure. The latter is generally the far more successful of the two.
As for Hoyer, he has one bad. One, and you throw this tangent out there? GTFO. Hoyer has had several games with great throws and consistent touch and Foosball can't quite dream of.
That said, I see you've been smoking some good shit again.
Ditto. Hoyer hasn't displayed mobility issues at all. The good quarterbacks can sense pressure and move away from it while continuing to scan the field, something Hoyer does very well.
Even if Manziel does play at some point this season, I don't want to see him end up like RG3.
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Manziel just offers what Hoyer doesn't....
The ability to get outside of the pocket and make plays with his feet.
If the offensive line is going to play good, then go with Hoyer.
If the offensive line is going to suck dicks, you go with Manziel so he can avoid the pressure.
Fucking brilliant. Nevermind that the kid is still an extremely raw rookie that opposing NFL defenses will FORCE to remain in the pocket. He'll have to make throws, pure and simple. To date, he's not shown the ability
to even come close to consistently doing that.
He'll have to make throws, pure and simple. To date, he's not shown the ability
to even come close to consistently doing that.
Are we talking about Manziel or Hoyer (dead last in NFL with a completion % of 55.7)
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Are we talking about Manziel or Hoyer (dead last in NFL with a completion % of 55.7)
Oh, so you think Foosball hits Barnidge on 4th and 11 on his own side of the field? Please... try to tell me that with a straight face.
Fact is, when you attempt fewer passes and you miss on some, its quite the detriment to the completion %. I do notice how you conveniently don't bring up
Hoyer leading the NFL in throws downfield (over 12 yards) which would further cement the Browns being a running team that drives the ball downfield on play action.
If this was a dink and dunk type offense, I might just buy into the completion percentage being a grand problem. Fact is, its not.
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Are we talking about Manziel or Hoyer (dead last in NFL with a completion % of 55.7)
Oh, so you think Foosball hits Barnidge on 4th and 11 on his own side of the field? Please... try to tell me that with a straight face.
Fact is, when you attempt fewer passes and you miss on some, its quite the detriment to the completion %. I do notice how you conveniently don't bring up
Hoyer leading the NFL in throws downfield (over 12 yards) which would further cement the Browns being a running team that drives the ball downfield on play action.
If this was a dink and dunk type offense, I might just buy into the completion percentage being a grand problem. Fact is, its not.
Oh, so you think Foosball hits Barnidge on 4th and 11 on his own side of the field? Please... try to tell me that with a straight face.
Fact is, when you attempt fewer passes and you miss on some, its quite the detriment to the completion %. I do notice how you conveniently don't bring up
Hoyer leading the NFL in throws downfield (over 12 yards) which would further cement the Browns being a running team that drives the ball downfield on play action.
If this was a dink and dunk type offense, I might just buy into the completion percentage being a grand problem. Fact is, its not.
Yeah, completing passes is overrated....
Once again this board has dove into misunderstanding that this is Hoyer vs Manziel. It is not. Its Hoyer vs. Inevitability. It's never been a "If" and always has been a "When". Hoyer starting, I agree with 1) Manziel wasn't ready preseason. It was clear and 2) You can't look the vets in the eye and tell them you're throwing away a year of their career not trying for the playoffs because you want a rookie to get his feet wet. Can't do it.
As long as we're in the playoffs you play Hoyer, once we're out, thats the last you see of Hoyer. It should be clear to everyone, and I assure you its clear to the Browns FO, that Hoyer isn't a Top 15 QB in this league, questionably Top 25. Without a great QB you're stuck in the middle and always look for the next one. Browns fans are so beat down with horrible QBs that the first time we see one that isn't god awful you fall in love and ignore everything he actually is, which is mediocre. Always has been, and will be. So Manziel is going to get his shot, once Hoyer throws up another dud and/or we're out of the playoff race...which will probably come around the same time.
The fact that Hoyer has played what everyone would consider "Great, for him" so far this year and hes still what....last in Comp % second to last in TDs 22nd in QBR....tells you all you need to know. Some of you Hoyer fans/Manziel haters around here are in extreme denial if you think Hoyer is a great QB and will lead this team in the future. He's never shown anything then what he is, at best, average.
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Oh, so you think Foosball hits Barnidge on 4th and 11 on his own side of the field? Please... try to tell me that with a straight face.
Fact is, when you attempt fewer passes and you miss on some, its quite the detriment to the completion %. I do notice how you conveniently don't bring up
Hoyer leading the NFL in throws downfield (over 12 yards) which would further cement the Browns being a running team that drives the ball downfield on play action.
If this was a dink and dunk type offense, I might just buy into the completion percentage being a grand problem. Fact is, its not.
Yeah, completing passes is overrated....
Once again this board has dove into misunderstanding that this is Hoyer vs Manziel. It is not. Its Hoyer vs. Inevitability. It's never been a "If" and always has been a "When". Hoyer starting, I agree with 1) Manziel wasn't ready preseason. It was clear and 2) You can't look the vets in the eye and tell them you're throwing away a year of their career not trying for the playoffs because you want a rookie to get his feet wet. Can't do it.
As long as we're in the playoffs you play Hoyer, once we're out, thats the last you see of Hoyer. It should be clear to everyone, and I assure you its clear to the Browns FO, that Hoyer isn't a Top 15 QB in this league, questionably Top 25. Without a great QB you're stuck in the middle and always look for the next one. Browns fans are so beat down with horrible QBs that the first time we see one that isn't god awful you fall in love and ignore everything he actually is, which is mediocre. Always has been, and will be. So Manziel is going to get his shot, once Hoyer throws up another dud and/or we're out of the playoff race...which will probably come around the same time.
The fact that Hoyer has played what everyone would consider "Great, for him" so far this year and hes still what....last in Comp % second to last in TDs 22nd in QBR....tells you all you need to know. Some of you Hoyer fans/Manziel haters around here are in extreme denial if you think Hoyer is a great QB and will lead this team in the future. He's never shown anything then what he is, at best, average.
Yeah, completing passes is overrated....
Once again this board has dove into misunderstanding that this is Hoyer vs Manziel. It is not. Its Hoyer vs. Inevitability. It's never been a "If" and always has been a "When". Hoyer starting, I agree with 1) Manziel wasn't ready preseason. It was clear and 2) You can't look the vets in the eye and tell them you're throwing away a year of their career not trying for the playoffs because you want a rookie to get his feet wet. Can't do it.
As long as we're in the playoffs you play Hoyer, once we're out, thats the last you see of Hoyer. It should be clear to everyone, and I assure you its clear to the Browns FO, that Hoyer isn't a Top 15 QB in this league, questionably Top 25. Without a great QB you're stuck in the middle and always look for the next one. Browns fans are so beat down with horrible QBs that the first time we see one that isn't god awful you fall in love and ignore everything he actually is, which is mediocre. Always has been, and will be. So Manziel is going to get his shot, once Hoyer throws up another dud and/or we're out of the playoff race...which will probably come around the same time.
The fact that Hoyer has played what everyone would consider "Great, for him" so far this year and hes still what....last in Comp % second to last in TDs 22nd in QBR....tells you all you need to know. Some of you Hoyer fans/Manziel haters around here are in extreme denial if you think Hoyer is a great QB and will lead this team in the future. He's never shown anything then what he is, at best, average.
It has nothing to do with believing Hoyer is a great QB. I know he isn't. However his limitations as a passer aren't as glarring as Manziels. And while yes, his completion percentage isn't great - Hoyer's turn over margin is. Which is why he is the best option currently for this team. I'm simply pointing that out. I'm well aware Manziel will eventually be starting. This is Anderson/Quinn all over again. The only difference is that our current starter had shown enough to warrant continued play. Also, it helps that he isn't legally Retarded. Anderson had the deep ball and a 10 cent brain. That was about it.
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Are we talking about Manziel or Hoyer (dead last in NFL with a completion % of 55.7)
Oh, so you think Foosball hits Barnidge on 4th and 11 on his own side of the field? Please... try to tell me that with a straight face.
Fact is, when you attempt fewer passes and you miss on some, its quite the detriment to the completion %. I do notice how you conveniently don't bring up
Hoyer leading the NFL in throws downfield (over 12 yards) which would further cement the Browns being a running team that drives the ball downfield on play action.
If this was a dink and dunk type offense, I might just buy into the completion percentage being a grand problem. Fact is, its not.
Oh, so you think Foosball hits Barnidge on 4th and 11 on his own side of the field? Please... try to tell me that with a straight face.
Fact is, when you attempt fewer passes and you miss on some, its quite the detriment to the completion %. I do notice how you conveniently don't bring up
Hoyer leading the NFL in throws downfield (over 12 yards) which would further cement the Browns being a running team that drives the ball downfield on play action.
If this was a dink and dunk type offense, I might just buy into the completion percentage being a grand problem. Fact is, its not.
His accuracy was as bad as anybody this week, though.But not everybody has their day. The difference between Browns fans and every other team though, Browns fans will call for the backup QB after Hoyer's bad day (On a day where, none the less, everybody had a bad day).
People dawg him for the Pittsburgh performance, but I disagree with them.
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Are we talking about Manziel or Hoyer (dead last in NFL with a completion % of 55.7)
And Brian Hoyer proved on Sunday he can't consistently do that with a wide open Jordan Cameron and Taylor Gabriel.
You have to make those throws. That's 14 points left off the board.
My argument for Manziel is that if Hoyer does this again against Tampa & Oakland, you have to go with Manziel.
Hoyer has 0 mobility so at least Manziel will be able to extend plays
we all know who you are. you are exactly who we thought you were.
couple of jeckyll and hyde dick lickers.
go somewhere else please.
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I hope I'm wrong and the 5'9" guy that weighs 195 with a suspect mind and average arm is the next Doug Flutie but if I am, after that steaming pile of a pre-season, he would've already been given the keys to the car.
You're already wrong seeing has how he's not 5'9 but rather 5'11 3/4 and weighs 210 not 195.
A suspect mind? Who the fuck are you, Dr. Phil?
Below average arm? It's probably better than Hoyer's in all honesty. The underthrow to Gabriel was living prooof Hoyer doesn't have a great arm.
He had a better preseason than Hoyer you genius.
I'm saying if Hoyer shits the bed vs. Tampa and Oakland, you go with Manziel to see what he can do
You're already wrong seeing has how he's not 5'9 but rather 5'11 3/4 and weighs 210 not 195.
A suspect mind? Who the fuck are you, Dr. Phil?
Below average arm? It's probably better than Hoyer's in all honesty. The underthrow to Gabriel was living prooof Hoyer doesn't have a great arm.
He had a better preseason than Hoyer you genius.
I'm saying if Hoyer shits the bed vs. Tampa and Oakland, you go with Manziel to see what he can do
I'm not disagreeing that if the season get's blown in the next few games then fuck it why not see where johnny's at. However, you've been watching the same games we have so you know full well that Hoyer has been throwing a "great" deep ball over the top all season long. He put up a duck while floating to his left, not indicative of his ability to throw downfield. When he's in the pocket and steps into his throws he, like all other QB's in the NFL, can throw the deep ball. Is he a freak that can be scampering to his left and throw 60 yds downfield off his right foot? no, neither is 99% of the league. Manziel didn't show me "anything" in preseason that his arm is anybetter than Hoyers...none whatsoever. He might be able to throw better moving to his left cause he's more athletic than Hoyer...but in the pocket his arm is no better than Hoyers "at all".
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Put manziel in. Hoyer has been sucking for most of the years. We beat pitt by grounding and pounding them into the ground, manziel fits what we have on the 1st team offense. Ben tate, terrance west, crowell, couple that with the play making abilities of johnny manziel. So what if manziel fucks up a bit? Better than Hoyer playing like crap vs the jagwires
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I will say there Manziel probably would have had 50+ yards rushing against Jacksonville including some of those bootlegs where Hoyer just stood there.
That's his forte' and the extra dimension he offers.
I will say there Manziel probably would have had 50+ yards rushing against Jacksonville including some of those bootlegs where Hoyer just stood there.
That's his forte' and the extra dimension he offers.
Sure, run for 50+, and straight to RG Knee IR. Are you that dense that those roll outs are designed to create passing lanes?
This is worst case scenario. Hoyer has one bad game and we're talking JFF again. This team just cannot hang on to any continuity. Unfortunately it might be Hoyer and his fucking agents fault...which is just mystifying to me. Fuck I'm so irritated about this. Are we really gonna start this QB roulette now? We're staring a season implosion right in the face.
Rumors denied by just about everyone. the original Bleacher Report was debunked as a steaming pile of crap reporting.
Manziel just offers what Hoyer doesn't....
The ability to get outside of the pocket and make plays with his feet.
If the offensive line is going to play good, then go with Hoyer.
If the offensive line is going to suck dicks, you go with Manziel so he can avoid the pressure.
LOL, how many plays do Brady or Peyton Manning make with their feet? I'd bet Hoyer is more mobile than half of the starting qbs in the NFL. He's plenty mobile enough.
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I will say there Manziel probably would have had 50+ yards rushing against Jacksonville including some of those bootlegs where Hoyer just stood there.
That's his forte' and the extra dimension he offers.
Sure, run for 50+, and straight to RG Knee IR. Are you that dense that those roll outs are designed to create passing lanes?
This is worst case scenario. Hoyer has one bad game and we're talking JFF again. This team just cannot hang on to any continuity. Unfortunately it might be Hoyer and his fucking agents fault...which is just mystifying to me. Fuck I'm so irritated about this. Are we really gonna start this QB roulette now? We're staring a season implosion right in the face.
Rumors denied by just about everyone. the original Bleacher Report was debunked as a steaming pile of crap reporting.
Manziel just offers what Hoyer doesn't....
The ability to get outside of the pocket and make plays with his feet.
If the offensive line is going to play good, then go with Hoyer.
If the offensive line is going to suck dicks, you go with Manziel so he can avoid the pressure.
LOL, how many plays do Brady or Peyton Manning make with their feet? I'd bet Hoyer is more mobile than half of the starting qbs in the NFL. He's plenty mobile enough.
Sure, run for 50+, and straight to RG Knee IR. Are you that dense that those roll outs are designed to create passing lanes?
Rumors denied by just about everyone. the original Bleacher Report was debunked as a steaming pile of crap reporting.
LOL, how many plays do Brady or Peyton Manning make with their feet? I'd bet Hoyer is more mobile than half of the starting qbs in the NFL. He's plenty mobile enough.
1. Not all running QB's are going to get injured (Wilson, Keapernick) and not all pocket passers are safe (Sam Bradford)
2. Brady and Manning don't have to make plays with their feet, they are 2 of the greatest passers in the history of the game. Hoyer is not.
3. I am giving Hoyer the benefit of the doubt but if he can't perform against Oakland and Tampa, you have to see what Manziel can do
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Sure, run for 50+, and straight to RG Knee IR. Are you that dense that those roll outs are designed to create passing lanes?
Rumors denied by just about everyone. the original Bleacher Report was debunked as a steaming pile of crap reporting.
LOL, how many plays do Brady or Peyton Manning make with their feet? I'd bet Hoyer is more mobile than half of the starting qbs in the NFL. He's plenty mobile enough.
1. Not all running QB's are going to get injured (Wilson, Keapernick) and not all pocket passers are safe (Sam Bradford)
2. Brady and Manning don't have to make plays with their feet, they are 2 of the greatest passers in the history of the game. Hoyer is not.
3. I am giving Hoyer the benefit of the doubt but if he can't perform against Oakland and Tampa, you have to see what Manziel can do
1. Not all running QB's are going to get injured (Wilson, Keapernick) and not all pocket passers are safe (Sam Bradford)
2. Brady and Manning don't have to make plays with their feet, they are 2 of the greatest passers in the history of the game. Hoyer is not.
3. I am giving Hoyer the benefit of the doubt but if he can't perform against Oakland and Tampa, you have to see what Manziel can do
In regards to #3, I'm with you. a 42% completion rate won't get it done in the NFL. But- I'd be hesitant to toss Manziel in there for his first game on Thursday night, on the road against the Bengals.
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More Drama, Coaching decisions, A troubling revised OL and a lazy D.. What is JF going to do but run for his life.. Let Hoyer decide his own contract worth.. Till JF can learn to get the ball out on time and get the team out of a huddle on time we have to leave it to the coaches.. Myself I am more concerned about OL and D!!
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You're already wrong seeing has how he's not 5'9 but rather 5'11 3/4 and weighs 210 not 195.
A suspect mind? Who the fuck are you, Dr. Phil?
Below average arm? It's probably better than Hoyer's in all honesty. The underthrow to Gabriel was living prooof Hoyer doesn't have a great arm.
He had a better preseason than Hoyer you genius.
I'm saying if Hoyer shits the bed vs. Tampa and Oakland, you go with Manziel to see what he can do
Sumlin's offense could be run by a guy off the street.
I never said Hoyer has a strong arm, so saying Manziel throws it harder than Pennington doesn't me he's Warren Moon.
Manziel's pre-season was primarily against 2nd and 3rd string, against the #1's game 3 he was suspect.
Sumlin's offense could be run by a guy off the street.
You mean the team that has just scored progressively 35, 31, 20 and 0 points in their last 4 SEC West games?
Yeah, anyone could have won that Heisman.
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I tend to agree. It's not so much the difference in arm strength but the question mark is on accuracy. I would bet that if Johnny were head and shoulders above Hoyer in that department he would have started the season.
Running for your life is a lot different than preset scrambling plays.
We were able to cover up for Brian Hoyer when the run game was great.
I wouldn't rush Johnny into the game, rather give Hoyer the chance to straighten out whatever accuracy problems if possible. I mean we have seen him throw some nice passes right? The downside is that we have seen some real turds missing wide open guys with time to throw.
bottom line, at least for the time being, since we have seen the Browns readjust in the past there may still be a chance. But I hate these trap games. Any given Sunday.
WSS
PS I'll get Brian's agent is shitting his pants right about now.
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So Hoyer is starting, on a pretty short leash.
I hope Brian plays well (and I expect him to), but if he has a bad first half that stadium is going to go manziel-manic and I wouldn't be surprised to see the change at the half, Pettine would almost have to.
So Hoyer is starting, on a pretty short leash.
I hope Brian plays well (and I expect him to), but if he has a bad first half that stadium is going to go manziel-manic and I wouldn't be surprised to see the change at the half, Pettine would almost have to.
Agree... as I said elsewhere if OAK game starts out as an extention of the JAX game, make the change.
Why not? Let's get that Manziel "package" going... It never hurt us in the 2 games we actually used it.
Other thing it did not do? Help...
I will say there Manziel probably would have had 50+ yards rushing against Jacksonville including some of those bootlegs where Hoyer just stood there.
That's his forte' and the extra dimension he offers.
Mobility... yup, that check goes firmly in the JM column, but BH has more than he showed Sunday. AS does arm strength and every other physical attribute, yet JM has sat.
Should tell you something...
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