Jonathan Paul Manziel
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This is the beginning of the end for Pettine. The owner is trying to force Manziel in. Bye Pettine, thanks for giving the Jags a first win.
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All I'm saying is that these roll outs that leave Hoter wide the fuck open are perfect for Manziel who can make things happen when Gabriel or whoever isn't open.
I wouldn't mind seeing play calling in 60/40 run/pass and half of those pass plays being roll outs with Manziel at the helm.
I'm also not upset about Hoyer being our QB. People jumped my shit last week vs Pitt because I said he played great but definitely had room for improvement including on some of his completions. Now everyone is ganging up on him with some knee jerk reactions.
Those naked bootlegs are meant to set up passing lanes, not have huge runs from your QB. Even then, JM wouldn't be getting large gains from them. 5 yards, maybe. The closing speed of most CB's and LB's will shock you.
Uhhh okay. Thanks for that but I never said what you are assuming I meant. I realize the closing speed of NFL defenses. I realize the mobility of Johnny Manziel just like defenses are going to realize it. By defenses having to be cognizant of the run by the QB it also opens up passing lanes ... or defenses are going to have to respect the rollout on actual run plays too which will suck the backside DE and OLB from the play and allow Tate and co. more cutback lanes. Tate loves the cut back and the holes will be there more often than currently because of it especially on the zone read type of running game.Those naked bootlegs are meant to set up passing lanes, not have huge runs from your QB. Even then, JM wouldn't be getting large gains from them. 5 yards, maybe. The closing speed of most CB's and LB's will shock you.
It's a lot like how Josh Gordon is going to open up passing lanes just by being out there. Respecting the run from Manziel opens up the run and the pass if used correctly ... Of course, they have to respect the pass too and we won't know that until we see it.
Edit: I like Hoyer I think he could be a starter but he has definitely struggled at times in the wind and losses and the running game has helped bail him out. I don't want them to run a couple series with Manziel though. Either roll with Hoyer and let him be the dude this year or roll with Manziel and let him be the dude against Oak and TB who have awful defenses to get confidence. Having Hoyer look over his shoulder isn't going to make him better. It'll make him press if the first 3 possessions don't go well Sunday.
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Those QBs have a substantially higher credit rating, and they've earned it.
Once Hoyer starts winning Super Bowls, he'll be allowed to have horrible games and not have to worry, but at long as he's shown nothing but very average, at best, QB play he's not going to get the benefit of the doubt.
Charlie Whitehurst numbers smoke Hoyers, and people in Tennessee wish Whitehurst never touched a football again. In your minds you keep comparing Hoyer to QB of Browns past, which is an ugly bunch, but if you compare him to whats around the NFL, he is right in the group with all the other guys people think shouldn't be a starter.
Except from the coaching staff, which is all that matters. First off, "starting" qbs far worse than Hoyer have had far worse games- remember that Browns qb from a few years back that posted a perfect zero qbr? Didn't lose their starting gig after one stinker. And not just for the Browns either, if that's what you're thinking.
Also your logic is flawed by the assumption Manziel is going to come in and do way better. If Pettine thought that was the case, JFF would already be starting. He's not getting paid to lose games.
Also your logic is flawed by the assumption Manziel is going to come in and do way better. If Pettine thought that was the case, JFF would already be starting. He's not getting paid to lose games.
Eh not necessarily. I mean you very well could be right.
Pettine could also be thinking that Hoyer knows the playbook better so the offense can be more vast.
He might think Manziel is better but the team has been winning and playing well and why change it up while it's working
He may think Manziel sucks balls
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This is what I didn't agree with. Didn't take much to get the Hoyer Hater Fan Club in full Boo Flat Chorus.
Are you really that fucking stupid? Don't answer b.c you just are. Someone that wants Hoyer to start you are calling a hater. What a fucking idiot.
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Those QBs have a substantially higher credit rating, and they've earned it.
Once Hoyer starts winning Super Bowls, he'll be allowed to have horrible games and not have to worry, but at long as he's shown nothing but very average, at best, QB play he's not going to get the benefit of the doubt.
Charlie Whitehurst numbers smoke Hoyers, and people in Tennessee wish Whitehurst never touched a football again. In your minds you keep comparing Hoyer to QB of Browns past, which is an ugly bunch, but if you compare him to whats around the NFL, he is right in the group with all the other guys people think shouldn't be a starter.
Except from the coaching staff, which is all that matters. First off, "starting" qbs far worse than Hoyer have had far worse games- remember that Browns qb from a few years back that posted a perfect zero qbr? Didn't lose their starting gig after one stinker. And not just for the Browns either, if that's what you're thinking.
Also your logic is flawed by the assumption Manziel is going to come in and do way better. If Pettine thought that was the case, JFF would already be starting. He's not getting paid to lose games.
Except from the coaching staff, which is all that matters. First off, "starting" qbs far worse than Hoyer have had far worse games- remember that Browns qb from a few years back that posted a perfect zero qbr? Didn't lose their starting gig after one stinker. And not just for the Browns either, if that's what you're thinking.
Also your logic is flawed by the assumption Manziel is going to come in and do way better. If Pettine thought that was the case, JFF would already be starting. He's not getting paid to lose games.
Once again you're comparing Hoyer to our previous awful QBs, and while he might be more steady then they were (who the majority are out of the league and the rest are backups, except Colt getting his start Monday) you're not comparing him to winning QBs. If you compare Hoyers numbers to the average playoff winning QB, he's awful. Next to the Browns previous QBs, he's good.
If you're desire for this team to just became an ok team and not finish with an embarrassing record every year, Brians your guy. I mean reading plenty of posts around it sounds like mediocrity is all you expect from this franchise and want anyone that can get them there. I don't think that way. I want a contender, a team that becomes a constant contender and that starts at QB. If you don't have the QB you can't get there. Brians not the QB. He's never once showed he's a great QB, hes only showed he can do his best not to lose you a game. The fans eat it up, and everytime we win its "HOYER IS A WINNER!!!" and whenever we lose it becomes "Oh well its a team loss" when really its much more the other way around. I'm looking to BUILD something here, not just patchwork a 6th seed playoff team that just good enough to get trounced in the first round, or a constant 8-8 team. Thats what Hoyer gives you a chance for, and that chance is even slim. Nothing more.
So now that I know Hoyer isn't the guy, now I want to know if Manziel is the guy. He might suck, you all could be right about that. But until he gets a shot we won't know. I know what Hoyer is, he's a backup, now I need to see what Manziel is. If Manziels not the guy then we need someone else.
I agree with Hoyer starting the season, Manziel wasn't ready, and I agree if we can stay in playoff contention Hoyer gives us the best shot. However we just lost to the Jags. Playoff teams don't lose that game. Chances of making playoffs just got a lot slimmer and with another game like that they'll be practically zero. The minute that happens Hoyer needs to go figure out what other team will have him (and pay that 13 Mil a year he's asking for, which will be interesting to see who would bite at that) and we need to develop Johnny to see if he could be the guy.
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Do you think Hoyer hurt his chances of receving the NFL MVP award this year after yesterday's performance?
Do you think Hoyer hurt his chances of receving the NFL MVP award this year after yesterday's performance?
10,000 comedians out of work and you're cracking jokes....
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Sumlin's offense could be run by a guy off the street.
You mean the team that has just scored progressively 35, 31, 20 and 0 points in their last 4 SEC West games?
Yeah, anyone could have won that Heisman.
You mean the team that has just scored progressively 35, 31, 20 and 0 points in their last 4 SEC West games?
Yeah, anyone could have won that Heisman.
can't believe you bit on that troll....
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wow. who opened the door and let all these assholes in?
time to open the bomb bay doors at let these douche bags go like the exploding nimrods they are.
see ya jim brown. see ya demoted. see ya Retard for the 3rd time.
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We cant have this discussion after every loss. It makes us look stupid. Now if the coaches truly think (and I trust this group) that JFF is ready, then im fine with it. Their statement means Hoyer starts next week. 'We'll see' means 'not ready' in this case. Hoyer was bad sunday, but he still has been the most stable qb in a loooong time.
Anyways no one ever gives credit to Kyle S. for much of our successes and failures. Kyle called his worst game by a mile, but he has been fantastic most of the season. As some have already pointed out, this scheme is being completely designed around JFF's skills. So the minute we're out of contention, is more likely the minute JFF takes over.
It's too soon for me, these rookie qbs (minus Luck and Wilson) have for several drafts looked unprepared for NFL secondarys.
βIt is impossible to get a man to understand something if his livelihood depends on him not understanding.β -
@douche-nozzle said:
I know I cheered loudly when the Browns drafted Johnny
was it maniacal like when Big Ben laughed as he saw that girl walk to the bathroom alone?
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We cant have this discussion after every loss. It makes us look stupid. Now if the coaches truly think (and I trust this group) that JFF is ready, then im fine with it. Their statement means Hoyer starts next week. 'We'll see' means 'not ready' in this case. Hoyer was bad sunday, but he still has been the most stable qb in a loooong time.
Anyways no one ever gives credit to Kyle S. for much of our successes and failures. Kyle called his worst game by a mile, but he has been fantastic most of the season. As some have already pointed out, this scheme is being completely designed around JFF's skills. So the minute we're out of contention, is more likely the minute JFF takes over.
It's too soon for me, these rookie qbs (minus Luck and Wilson) have for several drafts looked unprepared for NFL secondarys.
We cant have this discussion after every loss. It makes us look stupid. Now if the coaches truly think (and I trust this group) that JFF is ready, then im fine with it. Their statement means Hoyer starts next week. 'We'll see' means 'not ready' in this case. Hoyer was bad sunday, but he still has been the most stable qb in a loooong time.
Anyways no one ever gives credit to Kyle S. for much of our successes and failures. Kyle called his worst game by a mile, but he has been fantastic most of the season. As some have already pointed out, this scheme is being completely designed around JFF's skills. So the minute we're out of contention, is more likely the minute JFF takes over.
It's too soon for me, these rookie qbs (minus Luck and Wilson) have for several drafts looked unprepared for NFL secondarys.
Its not just this board having this discussion, national media is having this discussion.
This is why we all know deep down that Hoyer won't resign if Manziel is here (just like the reports have said). This will never end. This time last week Hoyer was talking about 13-18 Mil for 4 or 5 years and one game later the entire nation is wondering if Manziel is playing soon. Until Manziel is the starter, thats how it will be every week we lose from here on out. Hoyer doesn't want to deal with it and I don't blame him, but it's the situation here.
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We cant have this discussion after every loss. It makes us look stupid. Now if the coaches truly think (and I trust this group) that JFF is ready, then im fine with it. Their statement means Hoyer starts next week. 'We'll see' means 'not ready' in this case. Hoyer was bad sunday, but he still has been the most stable qb in a loooong time.
Anyways no one ever gives credit to Kyle S. for much of our successes and failures. Kyle called his worst game by a mile, but he has been fantastic most of the season. As some have already pointed out, this scheme is being completely designed around JFF's skills. So the minute we're out of contention, is more likely the minute JFF takes over.
It's too soon for me, these rookie qbs (minus Luck and Wilson) have for several drafts looked unprepared for NFL secondarys.
As some have already pointed out, this scheme is being completely designed around JFF's skills. So the minute we're out of contention, is more likely the minute JFF takes over.
i don't know who pointed that out but i'd say that's going out on a limb, a very thin shaky limb.
who's to say manziel will be ready next year? or the year after that? or ever? just because you draft a guy in the first round does not mean you owe a thing to him. if he was that good he'd be starting.
to hitch yourself to one wagon as an OC is just plain stoopid and i don't think shanhan is a stoopid.
football is a team sport and everyone on that team was involved with the jags loss. sure hoyer sucked, as did the whole OL, as did our RBs as did our DL and as did our coaching staff.
haslam is not going to fire pettine, so all you little typhoid marys can get that out of your mind now. now will he shove a lighted pitchfork up his ass if he doesn't figure out how to play his players? can anyone say volcanic hell?
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We cant have this discussion after every loss. It makes us look stupid. Now if the coaches truly think (and I trust this group) that JFF is ready, then im fine with it. Their statement means Hoyer starts next week. 'We'll see' means 'not ready' in this case. Hoyer was bad sunday, but he still has been the most stable qb in a loooong time.
Anyways no one ever gives credit to Kyle S. for much of our successes and failures. Kyle called his worst game by a mile, but he has been fantastic most of the season. As some have already pointed out, this scheme is being completely designed around JFF's skills. So the minute we're out of contention, is more likely the minute JFF takes over.
It's too soon for me, these rookie qbs (minus Luck and Wilson) have for several drafts looked unprepared for NFL secondarys.
Its not just this board having this discussion, national media is having this discussion.
This is why we all know deep down that Hoyer won't resign if Manziel is here (just like the reports have said). This will never end. This time last week Hoyer was talking about 13-18 Mil for 4 or 5 years and one game later the entire nation is wondering if Manziel is playing soon. Until Manziel is the starter, thats how it will be every week we lose from here on out. Hoyer doesn't want to deal with it and I don't blame him, but it's the situation here.
Its not just this board having this discussion, national media is having this discussion.
This is why we all know deep down that Hoyer won't resign if Manziel is here (just like the reports have said). This will never end. This time last week Hoyer was talking about 13-18 Mil for 4 or 5 years and one game later the entire nation is wondering if Manziel is playing soon. Until Manziel is the starter, thats how it will be every week we lose from here on out. Hoyer doesn't want to deal with it and I don't blame him, but it's the situation here.
dude you're back in full force and it's as sickening now as it was then.
please go back to rooting for A&M or the cowboys or whatever? when manziel shits the bed (and i don't want that to happen) i'll be so happy because i'll never ever have to see or hear of stocktonshorts again.
stfu already.
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As some have already pointed out, this scheme is being completely designed around JFF's skills. So the minute we're out of contention, is more likely the minute JFF takes over.
i don't know who pointed that out but i'd say that's going out on a limb, a very thin shaky limb.
who's to say manziel will be ready next year? or the year after that? or ever? just because you draft a guy in the first round does not mean you owe a thing to him. if he was that good he'd be starting.
to hitch yourself to one wagon as an OC is just plain stoopid and i don't think shanhan is a stoopid.
football is a team sport and everyone on that team was involved with the jags loss. sure hoyer sucked, as did the whole OL, as did our RBs as did our DL and as did our coaching staff.
haslam is not going to fire pettine, so all you little typhoid marys can get that out of your mind now. now will he shove a lighted pitchfork up his ass if he doesn't figure out how to play his players? can anyone say volcanic hell?
i don't know who pointed that out but i'd say that's going out on a limb, a very thin shaky limb.
He may be referring to me? I'm not saying that the offensive is being built around JFF's skill set instead what I am saying is that JFF's skill set fits in perfectly with the offensive scheme.
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i don't know who pointed that out but i'd say that's going out on a limb, a very thin shaky limb.
He may be referring to me? I'm not saying that the offensive is being built around JFF's skill set instead what I am saying is that JFF's skill set fits in perfectly with the offensive scheme.
He may be referring to me? I'm not saying that the offensive is being built around JFF's skill set instead what I am saying is that JFF's skill set fits in perfectly with the offensive scheme.
i hear you. it's shanny jr's system.
you think kirk cousins doesn't know the system? wonder why we don't/didn't bring him in? lol.
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He may be referring to me? I'm not saying that the offensive is being built around JFF's skill set instead what I am saying is that JFF's skill set fits in perfectly with the offensive scheme.
i hear you. it's shanny jr's system.
you think kirk cousins doesn't know the system? wonder why we don't/didn't bring him in? lol.
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another mich st. alum.........
don't know whether to laugh or cry at that one.
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POW!!
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We cant have this discussion after every loss. It makes us look stupid. Now if the coaches truly think (and I trust this group) that JFF is ready, then im fine with it. Their statement means Hoyer starts next week. 'We'll see' means 'not ready' in this case. Hoyer was bad sunday, but he still has been the most stable qb in a loooong time.
Anyways no one ever gives credit to Kyle S. for much of our successes and failures. Kyle called his worst game by a mile, but he has been fantastic most of the season. As some have already pointed out, this scheme is being completely designed around JFF's skills. So the minute we're out of contention, is more likely the minute JFF takes over.
It's too soon for me, these rookie qbs (minus Luck and Wilson) have for several drafts looked unprepared for NFL secondarys.
Its not just this board having this discussion, national media is having this discussion.
This is why we all know deep down that Hoyer won't resign if Manziel is here (just like the reports have said). This will never end. This time last week Hoyer was talking about 13-18 Mil for 4 or 5 years and one game later the entire nation is wondering if Manziel is playing soon. Until Manziel is the starter, thats how it will be every week we lose from here on out. Hoyer doesn't want to deal with it and I don't blame him, but it's the situation here.
Its not just this board having this discussion, national media is having this discussion.
This is why we all know deep down that Hoyer won't resign if Manziel is here (just like the reports have said). This will never end. This time last week Hoyer was talking about 13-18 Mil for 4 or 5 years and one game later the entire nation is wondering if Manziel is playing soon. Until Manziel is the starter, thats how it will be every week we lose from here on out. Hoyer doesn't want to deal with it and I don't blame him, but it's the situation here.
No shit the media wants Manziel. They get higher ratings when he plays. They will make up any story they can about the guy. It's all about MONEY..
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