Jonathan Paul Manziel
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... everytime we win its "HOYER IS A WINNER!!!" and whenever we lose it becomes "Oh well its a team loss" when really its much more the other way around.
So now that I know Hoyer isn't the guy, now I want to know if Manziel is the guy. He might suck, you all could be right about that. But until he gets a shot we won't know. I know what Hoyer is, he's a backup, now I need to see what Manziel is. If Manziels not the guy then we need someone else.
I agree with Hoyer starting the season, Manziel wasn't ready, and I agree if we can stay in playoff contention Hoyer gives us the best shot. However we just lost to the Jags. Playoff teams don't lose that game.
Yet the Seahawks just lost to the Rams... the Rams with their 3rd string QB. If we use your criteria there might not be enough playoff teams this year to fill the brackets.
You now know... now. You speak as if your mind was not made up prior to Sunday. It was. All here know it. Were it not you would have been here the last five weeks trying to figure it out with the rest of us. But you were not. Other than the tavern you've been were nowhere to be found for weeks... until Sunday's toe stub.
What I find amazing about your posts is the detailed reality you construct for you and you alone.
Example 1:"Everyone" credits Hoyer for our victories to the exclusion of all others, but blames loses on the team.
For someone who touts logic ad nauseum, yours is escapable.
... national media is having this discussion.
This is why we all know deep down that Hoyer won't resign if Manziel is here (just like the reports have said).
Walter is national media?
Why care about national media?
Example 2: Clinging to the discredited "Hoyer won't resign if..." storyline.
you think kirk cousins doesn't know the system? wonder why we don't/didn't bring him in? lol.
Classic...
As for Cousins threads... there are two to chose from:
Cousins http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=28522&hl=cousins and
Could Kirk Cousins Follow Kyle Shanahan to the Browns? http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=28337&hl=cousins
Yet the Seahawks just lost to the Rams... the Rams with their 3rd string QB. If we use your criteria there might not be enough playoff teams this year to fill the brackets.
You now know... now. You speak as if your mind was not made up prior to Sunday. It was. All here know it. Were it not you would have been here the last five weeks trying to figure it out with the rest of us. But you were not. Other than the tavern you've been were nowhere to be found for weeks... until Sunday's toe stub.
What I find amazing about your posts is the detailed reality you construct for you and you alone.
Example 1:"Everyone" credits Hoyer for our victories to the exclusion of all others, but blames loses on the team.
Example 2: Clinging to the discredited "Hoyer won't resign if..." storyline.
YUP.
Once again Hoyer is not the long term guy. Couldn't be more obvious that he's AT HIS BEST just an ok QB. He has never done one thing in a Browns uniform that resembles an Elite QB. Never hitch your wagon to a suspect arm and accuracy issues because they'll always come back to kill your team.
The longer Hoyer starts the WORSE it is for the Browns. We're only delaying progression for Manziel and progression from the FO in knowing if they have something in Manziel or have to keep looking. Hoyer is out there playing only for himself (Do you really think the minute we beat Pittsburgh the "rumors" of Hoyers contract demands started? Nope, Hoyer asked for all those things, said all those things and even went a week not denying it before giving a non-answer on it that some seem to read as a denial. Hoyer has publically said "I'd rather be promised a starting job then stay in Cleveland" he's 100% about himself).
You promise the vets you'll try to win, and Hoyer is by far the best option if you want to "win each week" but he's killing the development of this team and disrupting the process by being very average and then demanding things. Once it becomes clear to everyone that the playoffs isn't happening, Hoyer needs to go, he's not the guy, never will be the guy for anybody, and we need to find out if Manziel (or even the crush of some of you around here Connie Shaw) is the guy. The longer we wait to find that out, the absolute worse for the Browns.
Look no further then the Jags, who gave up over 100 points in 8 quarters earlier in the year, who held Hoyer to only 6 points. Chad Henne is much better of a QB then Bortles right now, but they realize they're not helping anything by delaying Bortles development. If they wanted to win more games Henne is the guy, but if they want to build something meaningful, then you need Bortles to learn now. They realize "Hey we're not winning a Super Bowl, so we need to give ourselves a chance in the future" and yet the Browns seem to be stuck in between in this weird "We're not paying attention to the future, just this week, only this week matters" mindset and that does ZERO good for a team trying to build something. Zero.
The fact people on this board can't see that is amazing to me.
I can see the Jags won Sunday in spite of Bortels, not because of him. Under normal circumstances, a 40 qbr with 3 picks is going to get you beat. Thanks for mentioning the Jags defense won that game- that and stupid coaching decisions by the Browns, plus a muffed punt. You're clueless if you think the Browns are in the same situation as the Jags with Bortles, or the Titans now trotting out Mecklenberger. The Browns are NOT in a full rebuild mode like those other teams. You're also not too bright if you think the expectations for a qb drafted #3 overall, as opposed to #21 overall are the same. Manziel was taken as a project. He was given every opportunity to beat out Hoyer in the preseason- and he couldn't. Seems he'd rather hang with Pussy B***ieber, and chug champagne in Vegas. rather than work on learning the playbook.
Yes, Haslam is already tired of losing, so is Joe Thomas, most of the other vets and 95% of the fanbase including me. F**ck Manziel's development- he was drafted as insurance policy if Hoyer flamed out. I'm not willing to toss this season in the tank just to see if Manziel has "got it" or not. As one of the guys said in his tag line once upon a time "Cleveland- Rebuilding since 1999, why stop now?" Keep hoping Stockton.
DEBUNKED, DEBUNKED, DEBUNKED. BY BOTH HOYER AND PETTINE. STILL ONLY SEEING WHAT YOU WANT TO SEE.
Wait are you talking to me?
Hoyer was a big part of the loss on Sunday but as I've said before its a team loss, but what people around here seem to forget is its also a team win, when we win. After Pittsburgh it was a Hoyer love fest around here and he completed 8 passes.
If you're QB needs the running game to be going great and the OLine to be iron to do better then 39% on 41 passes, then how good is he really? That was an awful game, and Hoyer missed 3 TDs with bad throws and mis reads. One of those would've changed the complexion of that game. The Jags D gave up over 100 points over a 8 quarter span this year, and we score 6 points? Six? and go right into excuse city about how great the Jags D is? They were ranked 27th in pass D on football outsiders. A large chunk of that game was Hoyer.
And yes Hoyer has a very weak arm, and no he doesn't throw "lasers of the top" he floats balls that have cost us points because WRs who have broken free have to stop and wait and catch them like a punt. There is not a single pundit that has watch Brian Hoyer and talked about how strong his arm is. He has a weak arm, and he's very inaccurate. Thats the book on Hoyer.
Hoyer has an adequate arm to throw the ball 50 yards. Fact. Yes, he doesn't have an elite arm- but you want to tell me at this point in his career Peyton Manning does? One thing Hoyer can do is read a f**cking defense better than any other Browns qb in the last 15 years, another fact bucco. He's also got an "elite" NOT! wr group to throw to. Or would you like me to expound on the greatness of Austin, Hawkins, Benjamin, and Gabriel?
Keep on ragging Stockton. The next two games will tell us if you're going to see "The Savior" starting out on the field this year. Hoyer goes 2-0 and you won't, Short of an injury- care to bet?
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JM won't be the starter this year unless Hoyer continues to play like the Jags game and we go 0-2. Even then I am not sure he (Hoyer) won't be the season sacrificial lamb and there is no change anyway.
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Play the man
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Stockton...
Trying to maintain your reality, your credibility by sliding from the discredited "won't sign if Manziel is here" story to the rather start elsewhere than sit in Cleveland is pathetic.
Trying to hang the lion's share of the JAX loss on BH is pathetic.
Claiming that a not playing a QB who is not ready to play is holding back the team is not pathetic, but it is delusional.
I can't wait until Sunday.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Stockton...
Trying to maintain your reality, your credibility by sliding from the discredited "won't sign if Manziel is here" story to the rather start elsewhere than sit in Cleveland is pathetic.
Trying to hang the lion's share of the JAX loss on BH is pathetic.
Claiming that a not playing a QB who is not ready to play is holding back the team is not pathetic, but it is delusional.
I can't wait until Sunday.
Stockton...
Trying to maintain your reality, your credibility by sliding from the discredited "won't sign if Manziel is here" story to the rather start elsewhere than sit in Cleveland is pathetic.
Trying to hang the lion's share of the JAX loss on BH is pathetic.
Claiming that a not playing a QB who is not ready to play is holding back the team is not pathetic, but it is delusional.
I can't wait until Sunday.
Either several major publications, including ProFootballTalk who has been a Hoyer fan, are flat out lying and making things up, or Hoyer said those things. The fact that Hoyer spent a week saying "Oh my agent takes care of those things" instead of "Not true at all" should tell you everything you need to know.
Hoyer still might resign because he's not going to find a ton of teams wanting to give him a starting job out there. Very few. Probably none. Cleveland as a backup might still be his best choice, he just doesn't realize it yet.
We scored 6 points on a defense who gave up over 100 in a 8 quarter period this year. SUre the Oline wasn't great, but it wasn't the worst of all time, Hoyer missed SEVERAL not just one, but SEVERAL wide open players for TDs. Just one of those chances that game. Don't tell me he's not the lion share. Whenever we beat Pittsburgh and he completes 8 passes and 49% you're on here telling me what a great QB he is, somehow that win is all Hoyer but this loss where he misses 25 of his 41 passes....against an awful defense, that isn't on Hoyer? Im the pathetic one? Comon.
Yes playing Manziel is holding this team back. Not for this year, long term. I've said over and over if you think we can win a Super Bowl then play Hoyer, but if we have no shot then what the fuck are we even talking about here? You're just this tickled pink to be mediocre? Thats how low your self esteem is? WE'RE .500!!! NOBODY CHANGE ANYTHING THIS IS GREAT!!!!! That's what is pathetic. Hoyer isn't the long term answer, he's not a QB who can lead the Browns anywhere and we're not contender this year. How many of you refuse to see this is nothing short of denial in the highest form.
If the Browns want to be winning franchise they need a franchise QB. Hoyer isn't it, he's an aging backup who needs a ton of help to avoid throwing 40% against the Jags. Thats not your guy. Manziel MIGHT be the guy. Won't know until he plays and gets to iron out his mistakes. If hes awful, then we know, we lose games, we get a higher draft pick this year, or if you want to give him a year next years, QB rich drafts. Thats how not playing Manziel is hurting the franchise. Not this years team, the franchise.
There's a reason why so many teams around the league are playing their rookies, because they know this too. Find your Franchise QB, and you'll never know until you let them play and work out all the rookie mistakes and we have big time college QBs coming out in the next few years, find out what you have now so you know what you need then.
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Stockton...
Trying to maintain your reality, your credibility by sliding from the discredited "won't sign if Manziel is here" story to the rather start elsewhere than sit in Cleveland is pathetic.
Trying to hang the lion's share of the JAX loss on BH is pathetic.
Claiming that a not playing a QB who is not ready to play is holding back the team is not pathetic, but it is delusional.
I can't wait until Sunday.
Either several major publications, including ProFootballTalk who has been a Hoyer fan, are flat out lying and making things up, or Hoyer said those things. The fact that Hoyer spent a week saying "Oh my agent takes care of those things" instead of "Not true at all" should tell you everything you need to know.
Hoyer still might resign because he's not going to find a ton of teams wanting to give him a starting job out there. Very few. Probably none. Cleveland as a backup might still be his best choice, he just doesn't realize it yet.
We scored 6 points on a defense who gave up over 100 in a 8 quarter period this year. SUre the Oline wasn't great, but it wasn't the worst of all time, Hoyer missed SEVERAL not just one, but SEVERAL wide open players for TDs. Just one of those chances that game. Don't tell me he's not the lion share. Whenever we beat Pittsburgh and he completes 8 passes and 49% you're on here telling me what a great QB he is, somehow that win is all Hoyer but this loss where he misses 25 of his 41 passes....against an awful defense, that isn't on Hoyer? Im the pathetic one? Comon.
Yes playing Manziel is holding this team back. Not for this year, long term. I've said over and over if you think we can win a Super Bowl then play Hoyer, but if we have no shot then what the fuck are we even talking about here? You're just this tickled pink to be mediocre? Thats how low your self esteem is? WE'RE .500!!! NOBODY CHANGE ANYTHING THIS IS GREAT!!!!! That's what is pathetic. Hoyer isn't the long term answer, he's not a QB who can lead the Browns anywhere and we're not contender this year. How many of you refuse to see this is nothing short of denial in the highest form.
If the Browns want to be winning franchise they need a franchise QB. Hoyer isn't it, he's an aging backup who needs a ton of help to avoid throwing 40% against the Jags. Thats not your guy. Manziel MIGHT be the guy. Won't know until he plays and gets to iron out his mistakes. If hes awful, then we know, we lose games, we get a higher draft pick this year, or if you want to give him a year next years, QB rich drafts. Thats how not playing Manziel is hurting the franchise. Not this years team, the franchise.
There's a reason why so many teams around the league are playing their rookies, because they know this too. Find your Franchise QB, and you'll never know until you let them play and work out all the rookie mistakes and we have big time college QBs coming out in the next few years, find out what you have now so you know what you need then.
Yes playing Manziel is holding this team back. Not for this year, long term. I've said over and over if you think we can win a Super Bowl then play Hoyer, but if we have no shot then what the fuck are we even talking about here? You're just this tickled pink to be mediocre? Thats how low your self esteem is? WE'RE .500!!! NOBODY CHANGE ANYTHING THIS IS GREAT!!!!! That's what is pathetic. Hoyer isn't the long term answer, he's not a QB who can lead the Browns anywhere and we're not contender this year. How many of you refuse to see this is nothing short of denial in the highest form.
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What's impressive to me is your lack of short term memory about the bolded. There was a time, just a few short years ago that this roster was devoid of any real talent. Its a slow building process. We've seen a glimpses here and there. We've also seen some things that make us say "same old Browns". However for a team that's been so consistency shitty for so very long, .500 ball or being 'mediocre' (as you put it) is a welcome relief.
This team has to walk before they'll learn to run. If the coaching staff wasn't so sure that Foosball wouldn't be killed on the field by running his happy ass into a huge sack, he'd probably have gotten some playing time against the Steelers.
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Stockton...
Trying to maintain your reality, your credibility by sliding from the discredited "won't sign if Manziel is here" story to the rather start elsewhere than sit in Cleveland is pathetic.
Trying to hang the lion's share of the JAX loss on BH is pathetic.
Claiming that a not playing a QB who is not ready to play is holding back the team is not pathetic, but it is delusional.
I can't wait until Sunday.
Either several major publications, including ProFootballTalk who has been a Hoyer fan, are flat out lying and making things up, or Hoyer said those things. The fact that Hoyer spent a week saying "Oh my agent takes care of those things" instead of "Not true at all" should tell you everything you need to know.
Hoyer still might resign because he's not going to find a ton of teams wanting to give him a starting job out there. Very few. Probably none. Cleveland as a backup might still be his best choice, he just doesn't realize it yet.
We scored 6 points on a defense who gave up over 100 in a 8 quarter period this year. SUre the Oline wasn't great, but it wasn't the worst of all time, Hoyer missed SEVERAL not just one, but SEVERAL wide open players for TDs. Just one of those chances that game. Don't tell me he's not the lion share. Whenever we beat Pittsburgh and he completes 8 passes and 49% you're on here telling me what a great QB he is, somehow that win is all Hoyer but this loss where he misses 25 of his 41 passes....against an awful defense, that isn't on Hoyer? Im the pathetic one? Comon.
Yes playing Manziel is holding this team back. Not for this year, long term. I've said over and over if you think we can win a Super Bowl then play Hoyer, but if we have no shot then what the fuck are we even talking about here? You're just this tickled pink to be mediocre? Thats how low your self esteem is? WE'RE .500!!! NOBODY CHANGE ANYTHING THIS IS GREAT!!!!! That's what is pathetic. Hoyer isn't the long term answer, he's not a QB who can lead the Browns anywhere and we're not contender this year. How many of you refuse to see this is nothing short of denial in the highest form.
If the Browns want to be winning franchise they need a franchise QB. Hoyer isn't it, he's an aging backup who needs a ton of help to avoid throwing 40% against the Jags. Thats not your guy. Manziel MIGHT be the guy. Won't know until he plays and gets to iron out his mistakes. If hes awful, then we know, we lose games, we get a higher draft pick this year, or if you want to give him a year next years, QB rich drafts. Thats how not playing Manziel is hurting the franchise. Not this years team, the franchise.
There's a reason why so many teams around the league are playing their rookies, because they know this too. Find your Franchise QB, and you'll never know until you let them play and work out all the rookie mistakes and we have big time college QBs coming out in the next few years, find out what you have now so you know what you need then.
If the Browns want to be winning franchise they need a franchise QB. Hoyer isn't it(you dont know that), he's an aging(he's 27) backup who needs a ton of help to avoid throwing 40% against the Jags. Thats not your guy. Manziel MIGHT be the guy. Won't know until he plays and gets to iron out his mistakes. If hes awful, then we know, we lose games, we get a higher draft pick this year, or if you want to give him a year next years, QB rich drafts. Thats how not playing Manziel is hurting the franchise. Not this years team, the franchise.
There's a reason why so many teams around the league are playing their rookies, because they know this too. Find your Franchise QB, and you'll never know until you let them play and work out all the rookie mistakes and we have big time college QBs coming out in the next few years, find out what you have now so you know what you need then...this is what they are doing with Hoyer right now. Finding out. Anybody who understands contracts and such knows that we have time with JFF and we dont with Hoyer. Hoyer has more experience and has earned the right to show what he's got, but if we dont check him now then well have no chance to see what he could have done. It's very basic and very simple. There is no rush. Your logic is so NOT logical.
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Yes playing Manziel is holding this team back. Not for this year, long term. I've said over and over if you think we can win a Super Bowl then play Hoyer, but if we have no shot then what the fuck are we even talking about here? You're just this tickled pink to be mediocre? Thats how low your self esteem is? WE'RE .500!!! NOBODY CHANGE ANYTHING THIS IS GREAT!!!!! That's what is pathetic. Hoyer isn't the long term answer, he's not a QB who can lead the Browns anywhere and we're not contender this year. How many of you refuse to see this is nothing short of denial in the highest form.
.
What's impressive to me is your lack of short term memory about the bolded. There was a time, just a few short years ago that this roster was devoid of any real talent. Its a slow building process. We've seen a glimpses here and there. We've also seen some things that make us say "same old Browns". However for a team that's been so consistency shitty for so very long, .500 ball or being 'mediocre' (as you put it) is a welcome relief.
This team has to walk before they'll learn to run. If the coaching staff wasn't so sure that Foosball wouldn't be killed on the field by running his happy ass into a huge sack, he'd probably have gotten some playing time against the Steelers.
What's impressive to me is your lack of short term memory about the bolded. There was a time, just a few short years ago that this roster was devoid of any real talent. Its a slow building process. We've seen a glimpses here and there. We've also seen some things that make us say "same old Browns". However for a team that's been so consistency shitty for so very long, .500 ball or being 'mediocre' (as you put it) is a welcome relief.
This team has to walk before they'll learn to run. If the coaching staff wasn't so sure that Foosball wouldn't be killed on the field by running his happy ass into a huge sack, he'd probably have gotten some playing time against the Steelers.
Exactly what I mean, low self esteem.
People on this board don't want to be contenders, they just want to not be a laughingstock. Being "Better then we have been" doesn't make us great or even good.
I agree this is a building process and its a process that will span several seasons, not just this one, which is why I'm saying just trying to be 8-8 or maybe eek out the 6th seed this year is a worthless exercise. Build for the future, and in the future isn't Hoyer. The 8-8 and praying the AFC is bad enough that we can get the 6th seed is Hoyer. Competing for championships isn't Hoyer. Thus why not finding out what Manziel is right now, is only hurting the team, long term.
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If the Browns want to be winning franchise they need a franchise QB. Hoyer isn't it(you dont know that), he's an aging(he's 27) backup who needs a ton of help to avoid throwing 40% against the Jags. Thats not your guy. Manziel MIGHT be the guy. Won't know until he plays and gets to iron out his mistakes. If hes awful, then we know, we lose games, we get a higher draft pick this year, or if you want to give him a year next years, QB rich drafts. Thats how not playing Manziel is hurting the franchise. Not this years team, the franchise.
There's a reason why so many teams around the league are playing their rookies, because they know this too. Find your Franchise QB, and you'll never know until you let them play and work out all the rookie mistakes and we have big time college QBs coming out in the next few years, find out what you have now so you know what you need then...this is what they are doing with Hoyer right now. Finding out. Anybody who understands contracts and such knows that we have time with JFF and we dont with Hoyer. Hoyer has more experience and has earned the right to show what he's got, but if we dont check him now then well have no chance to see what he could have done. It's very basic and very simple. There is no rush. Your logic is so NOT logical.
If the Browns want to be winning franchise they need a franchise QB. Hoyer isn't it(you dont know that), he's an aging(he's 27) backup who needs a ton of help to avoid throwing 40% against the Jags. Thats not your guy. Manziel MIGHT be the guy. Won't know until he plays and gets to iron out his mistakes. If hes awful, then we know, we lose games, we get a higher draft pick this year, or if you want to give him a year next years, QB rich drafts. Thats how not playing Manziel is hurting the franchise. Not this years team, the franchise.
There's a reason why so many teams around the league are playing their rookies, because they know this too. Find your Franchise QB, and you'll never know until you let them play and work out all the rookie mistakes and we have big time college QBs coming out in the next few years, find out what you have now so you know what you need then...this is what they are doing with Hoyer right now. Finding out. Anybody who understands contracts and such knows that we have time with JFF and we dont with Hoyer. Hoyer has more experience and has earned the right to show what he's got, but if we dont check him now then well have no chance to see what he could have done. It's very basic and very simple. There is no rush. Your logic is so NOT logical.
I do know that, nothing Hoyer has EVER done has indicated he's an elite QB. Not a single thing. He's hampered by inaccuracy, which has been there since college so its not like he's getting better, and news flash people, Brian Hoyer is 29 years old.
Lets wake up people. The Browns are 3-3 right now after playing the 30th ranked schedule to this point. With a loss to the Jags.
Quit being delusional about what's going on here
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What's impressive to me is your lack of short term memory about the bolded. There was a time, just a few short years ago that this roster was devoid of any real talent. Its a slow building process. We've seen a glimpses here and there. We've also seen some things that make us say "same old Browns". However for a team that's been so consistency shitty for so very long, .500 ball or being 'mediocre' (as you put it) is a welcome relief.
This team has to walk before they'll learn to run. If the coaching staff wasn't so sure that Foosball wouldn't be killed on the field by running his happy ass into a huge sack, he'd probably have gotten some playing time against the Steelers.
Exactly what I mean, low self esteem.
People on this board don't want to be contenders, they just want to not be a laughingstock. Being "Better then we have been" doesn't make us great or even good.
I agree this is a building process and its a process that will span several seasons, not just this one, which is why I'm saying just trying to be 8-8 or maybe eek out the 6th seed this year is a worthless exercise. Build for the future, and in the future isn't Hoyer. The 8-8 and praying the AFC is bad enough that we can get the 6th seed is Hoyer. Competing for championships isn't Hoyer. Thus why not finding out what Manziel is right now, is only hurting the team, long term.
I'm sure the teams goal is to win every game, of course it doesn't happen like that.Exactly what I mean, low self esteem.
People on this board don't want to be contenders, they just want to not be a laughingstock. Being "Better then we have been" doesn't make us great or even good.
I agree this is a building process and its a process that will span several seasons, not just this one, which is why I'm saying just trying to be 8-8 or maybe eek out the 6th seed this year is a worthless exercise. Build for the future, and in the future isn't Hoyer. The 8-8 and praying the AFC is bad enough that we can get the 6th seed is Hoyer. Competing for championships isn't Hoyer. Thus why not finding out what Manziel is right now, is only hurting the team, long term.
You're saying the future isn't Hoyer, but how do you know that? The guy has plenty of years left in him and has really been pretty good for us. I know you're gonna say "oh but he isn't Andrew luck arghgh" Neither is about everybody else.
Whats the big rush to trott out Manziel? Are we experiencing rookie QB deja vu?
If Hoyer was the biggest reason we lost games I'd be more inclined to give it a look this early, but frankly he isn't.
(In fact, he's the biggest reason we barely lost to the steelers and ravens - and he did win the saints game "oh he could have had a touchdown")
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If the Browns want to be winning franchise they need a franchise QB. Hoyer isn't it(you dont know that), he's an aging(he's 27) backup who needs a ton of help to avoid throwing 40% against the Jags. Thats not your guy. Manziel MIGHT be the guy. Won't know until he plays and gets to iron out his mistakes. If hes awful, then we know, we lose games, we get a higher draft pick this year, or if you want to give him a year next years, QB rich drafts. Thats how not playing Manziel is hurting the franchise. Not this years team, the franchise.
There's a reason why so many teams around the league are playing their rookies, because they know this too. Find your Franchise QB, and you'll never know until you let them play and work out all the rookie mistakes and we have big time college QBs coming out in the next few years, find out what you have now so you know what you need then...this is what they are doing with Hoyer right now. Finding out. Anybody who understands contracts and such knows that we have time with JFF and we dont with Hoyer. Hoyer has more experience and has earned the right to show what he's got, but if we dont check him now then well have no chance to see what he could have done. It's very basic and very simple. There is no rush. Your logic is so NOT logical.
I do know that, nothing Hoyer has EVER done has indicated he's an elite QB. Not a single thing. He's hampered by inaccuracy, which has been there since college so its not like he's getting better, and news flash people, Brian Hoyer is 29 years old.
Lets wake up people. The Browns are 3-3 right now after playing the 30th ranked schedule to this point. With a loss to the Jags.
Quit being delusional about what's going on here
I do know that, nothing Hoyer has EVER done has indicated he's an elite QB. Not a single thing. ...... except win. And a 29yo QB has a lot of gas in the tank, especially when he has so few miles. So whats the rush? We aren't happy losing and we aren't happy at 500, but we also understand that 500 is FINALLY a step in the right direction, and for that, we are grateful. We also understand that it wont turn around in one year, so SOME people are willing to be patient and see what Hoyer can do. Thats not a lack of self esteem, it's just a basic understanding of how things work. Hoyer is the first and ONLY QB who has won here in 15 years, yet you'd prefer to yank him to test drive a rookie that hasn't played a down. Crazy.
Not saying it will happen, but HONESTLY answer this, .....what if we played JFF now and Hoyer left, then Hoyer did well on another team, while JFF sucked here? You'd probably be the first one to call for RF's head, correct?
Can the Browns afford to screw up the ONLY QB thats done well for us, just to test drive another? really???!!!
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I do know that, nothing Hoyer has EVER done has indicated he's an elite QB. Not a single thing. ...... except win. And a 29yo QB has a lot of gas in the tank, especially when he has so few miles. So whats the rush? We aren't happy losing and we aren't happy at 500, but we also understand that 500 is FINALLY a step in the right direction, and for that, we are grateful. We also understand that it wont turn around in one year, so SOME people are willing to be patient and see what Hoyer can do. Thats not a lack of self esteem, it's just a basic understanding of how things work. Hoyer is the first and ONLY QB who has won here in 15 years, yet you'd prefer to yank him to test drive a rookie that hasn't played a down. Crazy.
Not saying it will happen, but HONESTLY answer this, .....what if we played JFF now and Hoyer left, then Hoyer did well on another team, while JFF sucked here? You'd probably be the first one to call for RF's head, correct?
Can the Browns afford to screw up the ONLY QB thats done well for us, just to test drive another? really???!!!
I do know that, nothing Hoyer has EVER done has indicated he's an elite QB. Not a single thing. ...... except win. And a 29yo QB has a lot of gas in the tank, especially when he has so few miles. So whats the rush? We aren't happy losing and we aren't happy at 500, but we also understand that 500 is FINALLY a step in the right direction, and for that, we are grateful. We also understand that it wont turn around in one year, so SOME people are willing to be patient and see what Hoyer can do. Thats not a lack of self esteem, it's just a basic understanding of how things work. Hoyer is the first and ONLY QB who has won here in 15 years, yet you'd prefer to yank him to test drive a rookie that hasn't played a down. Crazy.
Not saying it will happen, but HONESTLY answer this, .....what if we played JFF now and Hoyer left, then Hoyer did well on another team, while JFF sucked here? You'd probably be the first one to call for RF's head, correct?
Can the Browns afford to screw up the ONLY QB thats done well for us, just to test drive another? really???!!!
Hoyer has had 7 years. This is how good he is. This idea that he's going to take it to a new level is insane. The problems he had out of college, he has now. He can't throw straight, he's the most inaccurate QB in the NFL. You expect at 29 he's just going to develop a brand new skill set? Do you know how aging works?
It doesn't take much to realize who isn't the guy. "Except Win" yeah was that Hoyer or was the the run game, because when the run game wasn't there against Jacksonville Hoyer put in one of the worst performances by an opening day starter this year. That doesn't happen with elite QBs. That doesn't happen with franchise QBs.
How many teams do you think RIGHT NOW would take Hoyer and start him this weekend. Count it off to me. How many? Tampa Bay MAYBE? Is that the entire list?
I have no fear of Hoyer going somewhere else and becoming successful, because he won't and he can't. He's had other shots too, and got cut. Brian Hoyer will never sniff a Super Bowl. Never, ever, not possible, not in the hemisphere of QBs that could even dream about that. That much is clear, and because that much is clear it is also clear he's not the franchise QB that the Browns need (because the NFL is all about Franchise QBs now, and if you don't got one, you don't get shit)
"Only QB that's done well for us" who gives a shit? Honestly who gives a shit. If just because we've had 11 lemons and this car actually starts and can make it a mile down the road, doesn't make it a good car. Quit comparing Hoyer to Browns QBs of the past, because they don't matter, the bar in the NFL which is set is what matters. Compared to that bar he's not even close. Besides Hoyer is a LOOOOOONNNNGGGGGG second compared to Derek Anderson 2007. Lets have Hoyer make a Pro Bowl before we start calling him the "Only QB thats done well for us".
If we don't make the playoff this year, would you resign Hoyer? Would you still consider him a "Winner"? If we don't make the playoffs you want us to sign up for more of that?
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I do know that, nothing Hoyer has EVER done has indicated he's an elite QB. Not a single thing. ...... except win. And a 29yo QB has a lot of gas in the tank, especially when he has so few miles. So whats the rush? We aren't happy losing and we aren't happy at 500, but we also understand that 500 is FINALLY a step in the right direction, and for that, we are grateful. We also understand that it wont turn around in one year, so SOME people are willing to be patient and see what Hoyer can do. Thats not a lack of self esteem, it's just a basic understanding of how things work. Hoyer is the first and ONLY QB who has won here in 15 years, yet you'd prefer to yank him to test drive a rookie that hasn't played a down. Crazy.
Not saying it will happen, but HONESTLY answer this, .....what if we played JFF now and Hoyer left, then Hoyer did well on another team, while JFF sucked here? You'd probably be the first one to call for RF's head, correct?
Can the Browns afford to screw up the ONLY QB thats done well for us, just to test drive another? really???!!!
Hoyer has had 7 years. This is how good he is. This idea that he's going to take it to a new level is insane. The problems he had out of college, he has now. He can't throw straight, he's the most inaccurate QB in the NFL. You expect at 29 he's just going to develop a brand new skill set? Do you know how aging works?
It doesn't take much to realize who isn't the guy. "Except Win" yeah was that Hoyer or was the the run game, because when the run game wasn't there against Jacksonville Hoyer put in one of the worst performances by an opening day starter this year. That doesn't happen with elite QBs. That doesn't happen with franchise QBs.
How many teams do you think RIGHT NOW would take Hoyer and start him this weekend. Count it off to me. How many? Tampa Bay MAYBE? Is that the entire list?
I have no fear of Hoyer going somewhere else and becoming successful, because he won't and he can't. He's had other shots too, and got cut. Brian Hoyer will never sniff a Super Bowl. Never, ever, not possible, not in the hemisphere of QBs that could even dream about that. That much is clear, and because that much is clear it is also clear he's not the franchise QB that the Browns need (because the NFL is all about Franchise QBs now, and if you don't got one, you don't get shit)
"Only QB that's done well for us" who gives a shit? Honestly who gives a shit. If just because we've had 11 lemons and this car actually starts and can make it a mile down the road, doesn't make it a good car. Quit comparing Hoyer to Browns QBs of the past, because they don't matter, the bar in the NFL which is set is what matters. Compared to that bar he's not even close. Besides Hoyer is a LOOOOOONNNNGGGGGG second compared to Derek Anderson 2007. Lets have Hoyer make a Pro Bowl before we start calling him the "Only QB thats done well for us".
If we don't make the playoff this year, would you resign Hoyer? Would you still consider him a "Winner"? If we don't make the playoffs you want us to sign up for more of that?
Hoyer has had 7 years. This is how good he is. This idea that he's going to take it to a new level is insane. The problems he had out of college, he has now. He can't throw straight, he's the most inaccurate QB in the NFL. You expect at 29 he's just going to develop a brand new skill set? Do you know how aging works?
It doesn't take much to realize who isn't the guy. "Except Win" yeah was that Hoyer or was the the run game..he won last year too. Dont know why, but willing to see if he can continue a little while. Again, we have time with JFF..because when the run game wasn't there against Jacksonville Hoyer put in one of the worst performances by an opening day starter this year..his first "BAD" game. All QB's have a bad game. That doesn't happen with elite QBs. yes it does. That doesn't happen with franchise QBs.Yes it does.
How many teams do you think RIGHT NOW would take Hoyer and start him this weekend. Count it off to me. How many? Tampa Bay MAYBE? Is that the entire list? I have no idea, but unlike you, Im actually willing to say it.
I have no fear of Hoyer going somewhere else and becoming successful, because he won't and he can't. I KNEW you wouldnt answer the question. Knew it. He's had other shots too, and got cut. Brian Hoyer will never sniff a Super Bowl. Never, ever, not possible, not in the hemisphere of QBs that could even dream about that. That much is clear, and because that much is clear it is also clear he's not the franchise QB that the Browns need (because the NFL is all about Franchise QBs now, and if you don't got one, you don't get shit)
"Only QB that's done well for us" who gives a shit? Honestly who gives a shit. If just because we've had 11 lemons and this car actually starts and can make it a mile down the road, doesn't make it a good car. So, if you had no car for 10 years and someone gave you one that seems to run pretty good, you would throw it away for a car you've never heard run? or because it wasn't a Rolls?..Quit comparing Hoyer to Browns QBs of the past, because they don't matter, the bar in the NFL which is set is what matters. Compared to that bar he's not even close. Besides Hoyer is a LOOOOOONNNNGGGGGG second compared to Derek Anderson 2007. Lets have Hoyer make a Pro Bowl before we start calling him the "Only QB thats done well for us". He would have to play to get there, now wouldn't he? On the same note, let's let JFFactually beat him out before we anoint him, eh? If he's so great, why can't he play better than Mr Average?
If we don't make the playoff this year, would you resign Hoyer? Yes. Though Ive said all along that he's not a premier QB, so no way do I pay him top dollar. What you're missing is that I ALSO believe JFF is gonna be the man(eventually). I just disagree on the timing and your reasoning. Would you still consider him a "Winner"? If he has a winning record, yes. I think it's pretty clear that Hoyer is a winner. If we don't make the playoffs you want us to sign up for more of that? We haven't won more than 5 games in years and years, so I had no expectation of going to the Play Offs this year. If they goi, then they are exceeding ALL expectations and, to me, that would mean Hoyer met the challenge.
What did you predict the Browns would be this year??? I bet 4-12 or something like that. Yet If they exceed all those horrible predictions, I assume it's something else, not Hoyer, that is the reason. He's a big part of that equation.
I remember lots of predictions about a monster defense and us finishing last, but very few about how we'd be one of the top scoring teams in the league.
Bottom line, since he has been here:
BROWNS w Hoyer 6-3
BROWNS wo Hoyer 1- 12
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Hoyer has had 7 years. This is how good he is. This idea that he's going to take it to a new level is insane. The problems he had out of college, he has now. He can't throw straight, he's the most inaccurate QB in the NFL. You expect at 29 he's just going to develop a brand new skill set? Do you know how aging works?
It doesn't take much to realize who isn't the guy. "Except Win" yeah was that Hoyer or was the the run game..he won last year too. Dont know why, but willing to see if he can continue a little while. Again, we have time with JFF..because when the run game wasn't there against Jacksonville Hoyer put in one of the worst performances by an opening day starter this year..his first "BAD" game. All QB's have a bad game. That doesn't happen with elite QBs. yes it does. That doesn't happen with franchise QBs.Yes it does.
How many teams do you think RIGHT NOW would take Hoyer and start him this weekend. Count it off to me. How many? Tampa Bay MAYBE? Is that the entire list? I have no idea, but unlike you, Im actually willing to say it.
I have no fear of Hoyer going somewhere else and becoming successful, because he won't and he can't. I KNEW you wouldnt answer the question. Knew it. He's had other shots too, and got cut. Brian Hoyer will never sniff a Super Bowl. Never, ever, not possible, not in the hemisphere of QBs that could even dream about that. That much is clear, and because that much is clear it is also clear he's not the franchise QB that the Browns need (because the NFL is all about Franchise QBs now, and if you don't got one, you don't get shit)
"Only QB that's done well for us" who gives a shit? Honestly who gives a shit. If just because we've had 11 lemons and this car actually starts and can make it a mile down the road, doesn't make it a good car. So, if you had no car for 10 years and someone gave you one that seems to run pretty good, you would throw it away for a car you've never heard run? or because it wasn't a Rolls?..Quit comparing Hoyer to Browns QBs of the past, because they don't matter, the bar in the NFL which is set is what matters. Compared to that bar he's not even close. Besides Hoyer is a LOOOOOONNNNGGGGGG second compared to Derek Anderson 2007. Lets have Hoyer make a Pro Bowl before we start calling him the "Only QB thats done well for us". He would have to play to get there, now wouldn't he? On the same note, let's let JFFactually beat him out before we anoint him, eh? If he's so great, why can't he play better than Mr Average?
If we don't make the playoff this year, would you resign Hoyer? Yes. Though Ive said all along that he's not a premier QB, so no way do I pay him top dollar. What you're missing is that I ALSO believe JFF is gonna be the man(eventually). I just disagree on the timing and your reasoning. Would you still consider him a "Winner"? If he has a winning record, yes. I think it's pretty clear that Hoyer is a winner. If we don't make the playoffs you want us to sign up for more of that? We haven't won more than 5 games in years and years, so I had no expectation of going to the Play Offs this year. If they goi, then they are exceeding ALL expectations and, to me, that would mean Hoyer met the challenge.
What did you predict the Browns would be this year??? I bet 4-12 or something like that. Yet If they exceed all those horrible predictions, I assume it's something else, not Hoyer, that is the reason. He's a big part of that equation.
I remember lots of predictions about a monster defense and us finishing last, but very few about how we'd be one of the top scoring teams in the league.
Bottom line, since he has been here:
BROWNS w Hoyer 6-3
BROWNS wo Hoyer 1- 12
Hoyer has had 7 years. This is how good he is. This idea that he's going to take it to a new level is insane. The problems he had out of college, he has now. He can't throw straight, he's the most inaccurate QB in the NFL. You expect at 29 he's just going to develop a brand new skill set? Do you know how aging works?
It doesn't take much to realize who isn't the guy. "Except Win" yeah was that Hoyer or was the the run game..he won last year too. Dont know why, but willing to see if he can continue a little while. Again, we have time with JFF..because when the run game wasn't there against Jacksonville Hoyer put in one of the worst performances by an opening day starter this year..his first "BAD" game. All QB's have a bad game. That doesn't happen with elite QBs. yes it does. That doesn't happen with franchise QBs.Yes it does.
How many teams do you think RIGHT NOW would take Hoyer and start him this weekend. Count it off to me. How many? Tampa Bay MAYBE? Is that the entire list? I have no idea, but unlike you, Im actually willing to say it.
I have no fear of Hoyer going somewhere else and becoming successful, because he won't and he can't. I KNEW you wouldnt answer the question. Knew it. He's had other shots too, and got cut. Brian Hoyer will never sniff a Super Bowl. Never, ever, not possible, not in the hemisphere of QBs that could even dream about that. That much is clear, and because that much is clear it is also clear he's not the franchise QB that the Browns need (because the NFL is all about Franchise QBs now, and if you don't got one, you don't get shit)
"Only QB that's done well for us" who gives a shit? Honestly who gives a shit. If just because we've had 11 lemons and this car actually starts and can make it a mile down the road, doesn't make it a good car. So, if you had no car for 10 years and someone gave you one that seems to run pretty good, you would throw it away for a car you've never heard run? or because it wasn't a Rolls?..Quit comparing Hoyer to Browns QBs of the past, because they don't matter, the bar in the NFL which is set is what matters. Compared to that bar he's not even close. Besides Hoyer is a LOOOOOONNNNGGGGGG second compared to Derek Anderson 2007. Lets have Hoyer make a Pro Bowl before we start calling him the "Only QB thats done well for us". He would have to play to get there, now wouldn't he? On the same note, let's let JFFactually beat him out before we anoint him, eh? If he's so great, why can't he play better than Mr Average?
If we don't make the playoff this year, would you resign Hoyer? Yes. Though Ive said all along that he's not a premier QB, so no way do I pay him top dollar. What you're missing is that I ALSO believe JFF is gonna be the man(eventually). I just disagree on the timing and your reasoning. Would you still consider him a "Winner"? If he has a winning record, yes. I think it's pretty clear that Hoyer is a winner. If we don't make the playoffs you want us to sign up for more of that? We haven't won more than 5 games in years and years, so I had no expectation of going to the Play Offs this year. If they goi, then they are exceeding ALL expectations and, to me, that would mean Hoyer met the challenge.
What did you predict the Browns would be this year??? I bet 4-12 or something like that. Yet If they exceed all those horrible predictions, I assume it's something else, not Hoyer, that is the reason. He's a big part of that equation.
I remember lots of predictions about a monster defense and us finishing last, but very few about how we'd be one of the top scoring teams in the league.
Bottom line, since he has been here:
BROWNS w Hoyer 6-3
BROWNS wo Hoyer 1- 12
Once again you count "WINS" as a Brian Hoyer thing, but whenever we lose its "Well its the team that lost"
You ignore the things Brian actually DOES in these games and go "Well its a win, so score one for Brian" and when we lose you go "Well it's not Brians fault"
Brian is dead last in completion % this year. Dead last. And thats with people being surprised with how much better he's playing, still dead last in completion %. What more do you need to know? Our WRs actually have the LEAST drops in the NFL, so don't try the "Well the receivers...." no they've been making incredible catches all year for Hoyer.
Once again it is clear that Hoyer is not a Franchise QB. That part is obvious. If you want to tell me he's better then some other guys we've had, fine. You want to tell me "Hey we haven't been 3-3 for a long time" fine. I could also make the argument that we've had the 30th ranked schedule, 3rd easiest schedule in the entire league, to this point and are only 3-3. Doesn't make Hoyer a Franchise QB. Hoyer doesn't have the ability to be a Franchise QB. Once you know a guy ISN'T the guy then you need to start to move on, not hold on tighter.
We are only hurting ourselves the longer we play a guy who is NOT the guy. Thats the entire point. Thats what all these other teams have figured out, that we refused to accept. If you look at the QB grouping that Hoyer is in, everyone of those QBs are on the verge of being benched, if not already benched. Locker, Glennon, Geno Smith, Cassell, Cousins, Manuel....all the same guys and Hoyer is right in there with them. Only Hoyer is less accurate then all of them.
The elephant in the room, that none of you want to talk about, is if Brian Hoyer was born in Texas and not in Cleveland, we wouldn't be having this conversation. People here have such an old man, emotional, "HES ONE OF US!" reaction to Brian Hoyer that you have no ability to discuss him rationally. You can't see him for what he really is, and he knows it and plays up to it trying to steal money from the Browns because have no doubt that this season, in Hoyers mind, is all about making money. Has nothing to do with the fans or playing at home or any of that shit. He wants MONEY.
Don't blame him either, I'd want money too, but to act like hes some boy scout hero coming to save the city of Cleveland, give me a break. He's a mediocre QB who is getting much more support then he ever should ONLY because he popped out of his moms pussy down the road. What a great reason to keep a QB.
If you think that statement is untrue, then you've stopped living in reality.
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What's the rush to change QBs?
As I mentioned before, a few plays for Manziel to get his feet wet is fine with me. I'd like to see him get a series here-and-there, but I'm not starting him if I'm the HC. He is so young and "raw" for an NFL QB, what's the point in rushing him out? Hoyer is not playing great, but he's not playing terribly. He got beat up against JAX, but how many drops were there? How much pressure did he have in his face? Who are his weapons?
I think Hoyer can get the job done, and put this team in the playoffs. From there, who knows what can happen?? If he doesn't, let the competetion begin next offseason. Or, let Hoyer walk and bring in a different vet FA to compete with Manziel...
Again, what's the rush to change? We still want to win... even if that means only winning 6-8 games. Hoyer gives us the best chance... right now. If Manziel shows something in a few drives, then we can start talking...
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What's the rush to change QBs?
As I mentioned before, a few plays for Manziel to get his feet wet is fine with me. I'd like to see him get a series here-and-there, but I'm not starting him if I'm the HC. He is so young and "raw" for an NFL QB, what's the point in rushing him out? Hoyer is not playing great, but he's not playing terribly. He got beat up against JAX, but how many drops were there? How much pressure did he have in his face? Who are his weapons?
I think Hoyer can get the job done, and put this team in the playoffs. From there, who knows what can happen?? If he doesn't, let the competetion begin next offseason. Or, let Hoyer walk and bring in a different vet FA to compete with Manziel...
Again, what's the rush to change? We still want to win... even if that means only winning 6-8 games. Hoyer gives us the best chance... right now. If Manziel shows something in a few drives, then we can start talking...
What's the rush to change QBs?
As I mentioned before, a few plays for Manziel to get his feet wet is fine with me. I'd like to see him get a series here-and-there, but I'm not starting him if I'm the HC. He is so young and "raw" for an NFL QB, what's the point in rushing him out? Hoyer is not playing great, but he's not playing terribly. He got beat up against JAX, but how many drops were there? How much pressure did he have in his face? Who are his weapons?
I think Hoyer can get the job done, and put this team in the playoffs. From there, who knows what can happen?? If he doesn't, let the competetion begin next offseason. Or, let Hoyer walk and bring in a different vet FA to compete with Manziel...
Again, what's the rush to change? We still want to win... even if that means only winning 6-8 games. Hoyer gives us the best chance... right now. If Manziel shows something in a few drives, then we can start talking...
The rush is the sooner you see what Manziel has, the sooner you can make plans for the future. Also the sooner he plays the sooner he gets acclimated and better. Like I said next two draft classes are stacked at QB, you want to know what's going on very soon. What is the point of winning 6-8 games? Honestly whats the point? This is what I mean by low self esteem. To you 6-8 wins is AWESOME and how dare we change anything when that is AWESOME. It's not. It's worthless.
Also quit talking about drops, on the season our entire team has 5 total drops. Best in the NFL. Brian missed 25 of 41 passes, so lets not act like drops played a part in that performance.
Once again you guys can't discuss Hoyer with actual information, it's becomes "Oh well the drops and the..." none of that is factual. It's not backed up by stats, its only developed in your bias brains, not by reality.
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Hoyer has had 7 years. This is how good he is. This idea that he's going to take it to a new level is insane. The problems he had out of college, he has now. He can't throw straight, he's the most inaccurate QB in the NFL. You expect at 29 he's just going to develop a brand new skill set? Do you know how aging works?
It doesn't take much to realize who isn't the guy. "Except Win" yeah was that Hoyer or was the the run game..he won last year too. Dont know why, but willing to see if he can continue a little while. Again, we have time with JFF..because when the run game wasn't there against Jacksonville Hoyer put in one of the worst performances by an opening day starter this year..his first "BAD" game. All QB's have a bad game. That doesn't happen with elite QBs. yes it does. That doesn't happen with franchise QBs.Yes it does.
How many teams do you think RIGHT NOW would take Hoyer and start him this weekend. Count it off to me. How many? Tampa Bay MAYBE? Is that the entire list? I have no idea, but unlike you, Im actually willing to say it.
I have no fear of Hoyer going somewhere else and becoming successful, because he won't and he can't. I KNEW you wouldnt answer the question. Knew it. He's had other shots too, and got cut. Brian Hoyer will never sniff a Super Bowl. Never, ever, not possible, not in the hemisphere of QBs that could even dream about that. That much is clear, and because that much is clear it is also clear he's not the franchise QB that the Browns need (because the NFL is all about Franchise QBs now, and if you don't got one, you don't get shit)
"Only QB that's done well for us" who gives a shit? Honestly who gives a shit. If just because we've had 11 lemons and this car actually starts and can make it a mile down the road, doesn't make it a good car. So, if you had no car for 10 years and someone gave you one that seems to run pretty good, you would throw it away for a car you've never heard run? or because it wasn't a Rolls?..Quit comparing Hoyer to Browns QBs of the past, because they don't matter, the bar in the NFL which is set is what matters. Compared to that bar he's not even close. Besides Hoyer is a LOOOOOONNNNGGGGGG second compared to Derek Anderson 2007. Lets have Hoyer make a Pro Bowl before we start calling him the "Only QB thats done well for us". He would have to play to get there, now wouldn't he? On the same note, let's let JFFactually beat him out before we anoint him, eh? If he's so great, why can't he play better than Mr Average?
If we don't make the playoff this year, would you resign Hoyer? Yes. Though Ive said all along that he's not a premier QB, so no way do I pay him top dollar. What you're missing is that I ALSO believe JFF is gonna be the man(eventually). I just disagree on the timing and your reasoning. Would you still consider him a "Winner"? If he has a winning record, yes. I think it's pretty clear that Hoyer is a winner. If we don't make the playoffs you want us to sign up for more of that? We haven't won more than 5 games in years and years, so I had no expectation of going to the Play Offs this year. If they goi, then they are exceeding ALL expectations and, to me, that would mean Hoyer met the challenge.
What did you predict the Browns would be this year??? I bet 4-12 or something like that. Yet If they exceed all those horrible predictions, I assume it's something else, not Hoyer, that is the reason. He's a big part of that equation.
I remember lots of predictions about a monster defense and us finishing last, but very few about how we'd be one of the top scoring teams in the league.
Bottom line, since he has been here:
BROWNS w Hoyer 6-3
BROWNS wo Hoyer 1- 12
Once again you count "WINS" as a Brian Hoyer thing, but whenever we lose its "Well its the team that lost"
You ignore the things Brian actually DOES in these games and go "Well its a win, so score one for Brian" and when we lose you go "Well it's not Brians fault"
Brian is dead last in completion % this year. Dead last. And thats with people being surprised with how much better he's playing, still dead last in completion %. What more do you need to know? Our WRs actually have the LEAST drops in the NFL, so don't try the "Well the receivers...." no they've been making incredible catches all year for Hoyer.
Once again it is clear that Hoyer is not a Franchise QB. That part is obvious. If you want to tell me he's better then some other guys we've had, fine. You want to tell me "Hey we haven't been 3-3 for a long time" fine. I could also make the argument that we've had the 30th ranked schedule, 3rd easiest schedule in the entire league, to this point and are only 3-3. Doesn't make Hoyer a Franchise QB. Hoyer doesn't have the ability to be a Franchise QB. Once you know a guy ISN'T the guy then you need to start to move on, not hold on tighter.
We are only hurting ourselves the longer we play a guy who is NOT the guy. Thats the entire point. Thats what all these other teams have figured out, that we refused to accept. If you look at the QB grouping that Hoyer is in, everyone of those QBs are on the verge of being benched, if not already benched. Locker, Glennon, Geno Smith, Cassell, Cousins, Manuel....all the same guys and Hoyer is right in there with them. Only Hoyer is less accurate then all of them.
The elephant in the room, that none of you want to talk about, is if Brian Hoyer was born in Texas and not in Cleveland, we wouldn't be having this conversation. People here have such an old man, emotional, "HES ONE OF US!" reaction to Brian Hoyer that you have no ability to discuss him rationally. You can't see him for what he really is, and he knows it and plays up to it trying to steal money from the Browns because have no doubt that this season, in Hoyers mind, is all about making money. Has nothing to do with the fans or playing at home or any of that shit. He wants MONEY.
Don't blame him either, I'd want money too, but to act like hes some boy scout hero coming to save the city of Cleveland, give me a break. He's a mediocre QB who is getting much more support then he ever should ONLY because he popped out of his moms pussy down the road. What a great reason to keep a QB.
If you think that statement is untrue, then you've stopped living in reality.
Once again you count "WINS" as a Brian Hoyer thing, but whenever we lose its "Well its the team that lost" Your lumping me with everyone. Never said "he" won those games or said he lost a game. I said the teams wins when he's played and the teams loses when he doesnt. Also said Idont know why, but feel it's worth investigating.
You ignore the things Brian actually DOES in these games and go "Well its a win, so score one for Brian" and when we lose you go "Well it's not Brians fault" Haven't ignored anything. Ive said he has a weak arm. Ive said he look inaccurate. And I said he sucked this past Sundsay. STOP putting words in my mouth. I not a Hoyer lover, I just think he's the better of the 2 right now. And rule #1 is you play the better player.
Brian is dead last in completion % this year. Dead last. And thats with people being surprised with how much better he's playing, still dead last in completion %. What more do you need to know? Our WRs actually have the LEAST drops in the NFL, so don't try the "Well the receivers...." no they've been making incredible catches all year for Hoyer. Until last week. Dropped several. And again, he's doing it with crap receivers.
Once again it is clear that Hoyer is not a Franchise QB. That part is obvious. If you want to tell me he's better then some other guys we've had, fine. You want to tell me "Hey we haven't been 3-3 for a long time" fine. I could also make the argument that we've had the 30th ranked schedule, 3rd easiest schedule in the entire league, to this point and are only 3-3. Doesn't make Hoyer a Franchise QB. Hoyer doesn't have the ability to be a Franchise QB. Once you know a guy ISN'T the guy then you need to start to move on, not hold on tighter. I disagree(obviously). I think you play your best player and try to win no matter what. If JFF wants to start, then he needs to beat out Hoyer.
We are only hurting ourselves the longer we play a guy who is NOT the guy. Thats the entire point. Thats what all these other teams have figured out, that we refused to accept. If you look at the QB grouping that Hoyer is in, everyone of those QBs are on the verge of being benched, if not already benched. Locker, Glennon, Geno Smith, Cassell, Cousins, Manuel....all the same guys and Hoyer is right in there with them. Only Hoyer is less accurate then all of them.No. What many teams have figured out is that many young QB's were getting thrown to the wolves and failing. So the Browns have the OPPORTUNITY to develop their guy slowly and they're taking it. You're just not getting that.
The elephant in the room, that none of you want to talk about, is if Brian Hoyer was born in Texas and not in Cleveland, we wouldn't be having this conversation I give give a rats ass where he's from. People here have such an old man, emotional, "HES ONE OF US!" reaction to Brian Hoyer that you have no ability to discuss him rationally. Again. Dont know who you're talking to. Im completely rational. 100%. You can't see him for what he really is, and he knows it and plays up to it trying to steal money from the Browns because have no doubt that this season, in Hoyers mind, is all about making money. Has nothing to do with the fans or playing at home or any of that shit. He wants MONEY. Yeah. Whatever. Mr Trademark does too. We all do. What a dumb ass statement.
Don't blame him either, I'd want money too, but to act like hes some boy scout hero coming to save the city of Cleveland, give me a breakWrong again. Never said that. Not even close. He's a mediocre QB who is getting much more support then he ever should ONLY because he popped out of his moms pussy down the road. What a great reason to keep a QB.
If you think that statement is untrue, then you've stopped living in reality. Why do you care "why" people support him? What a puss thing to say. It's as if "we fans" are the reason he's starting and "we fans" are calling the shots. Anyone can like any player they want for whatever reason they want, who gives a fuck???
The only thing that matters is what RAY FARMER and MIKE PETTINE think. And, right now, they think HOYER is better than Johnny....get it?
And I have a LOT more faith in their opinions than in yours. Simple fact.
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One other point....that I think is a big one.....is that WE haven't seen JFF, but the coaches and team work with him everyday. I think they know what they have. I think they have a STRONG opinion on whether he's the man or not. Could be that he IS gonna be next years starter and the Browns are using Hoyer to develop him. Could be they already know he's a bust, but dont want to reveal that. Who knows. Give them enough credit to realize they know A LOT MORE than we do right now..
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Once again you count "WINS" as a Brian Hoyer thing, but whenever we lose its "Well its the team that lost" Your lumping me with everyone. Never said "he" won those games or said he lost a game. I said the teams wins when he's played and the teams loses when he doesnt. Also said Idont know why, but feel it's worth investigating.
You ignore the things Brian actually DOES in these games and go "Well its a win, so score one for Brian" and when we lose you go "Well it's not Brians fault" Haven't ignored anything. Ive said he has a weak arm. Ive said he look inaccurate. And I said he sucked this past Sundsay. STOP putting words in my mouth. I not a Hoyer lover, I just think he's the better of the 2 right now. And rule #1 is you play the better player.
Brian is dead last in completion % this year. Dead last. And thats with people being surprised with how much better he's playing, still dead last in completion %. What more do you need to know? Our WRs actually have the LEAST drops in the NFL, so don't try the "Well the receivers...." no they've been making incredible catches all year for Hoyer. Until last week. Dropped several. And again, he's doing it with crap receivers.
Once again it is clear that Hoyer is not a Franchise QB. That part is obvious. If you want to tell me he's better then some other guys we've had, fine. You want to tell me "Hey we haven't been 3-3 for a long time" fine. I could also make the argument that we've had the 30th ranked schedule, 3rd easiest schedule in the entire league, to this point and are only 3-3. Doesn't make Hoyer a Franchise QB. Hoyer doesn't have the ability to be a Franchise QB. Once you know a guy ISN'T the guy then you need to start to move on, not hold on tighter. I disagree(obviously). I think you play your best player and try to win no matter what. If JFF wants to start, then he needs to beat out Hoyer.
We are only hurting ourselves the longer we play a guy who is NOT the guy. Thats the entire point. Thats what all these other teams have figured out, that we refused to accept. If you look at the QB grouping that Hoyer is in, everyone of those QBs are on the verge of being benched, if not already benched. Locker, Glennon, Geno Smith, Cassell, Cousins, Manuel....all the same guys and Hoyer is right in there with them. Only Hoyer is less accurate then all of them.No. What many teams have figured out is that many young QB's were getting thrown to the wolves and failing. So the Browns have the OPPORTUNITY to develop their guy slowly and they're taking it. You're just not getting that.
The elephant in the room, that none of you want to talk about, is if Brian Hoyer was born in Texas and not in Cleveland, we wouldn't be having this conversation I give give a rats ass where he's from. People here have such an old man, emotional, "HES ONE OF US!" reaction to Brian Hoyer that you have no ability to discuss him rationally. Again. Dont know who you're talking to. Im completely rational. 100%. You can't see him for what he really is, and he knows it and plays up to it trying to steal money from the Browns because have no doubt that this season, in Hoyers mind, is all about making money. Has nothing to do with the fans or playing at home or any of that shit. He wants MONEY. Yeah. Whatever. Mr Trademark does too. We all do. What a dumb ass statement.
Don't blame him either, I'd want money too, but to act like hes some boy scout hero coming to save the city of Cleveland, give me a breakWrong again. Never said that. Not even close. He's a mediocre QB who is getting much more support then he ever should ONLY because he popped out of his moms pussy down the road. What a great reason to keep a QB.
If you think that statement is untrue, then you've stopped living in reality. Why do you care "why" people support him? What a puss thing to say. It's as if "we fans" are the reason he's starting and "we fans" are calling the shots. Anyone can like any player they want for whatever reason they want, who gives a fuck???
The only thing that matters is what RAY FARMER and MIKE PETTINE think. And, right now, they think HOYER is better than Johnny....get it?
And I have a LOT more faith in their opinions than in yours. Simple fact.
Brian is dead last in completion % this year. Dead last. And thats with people being surprised with how much better he's playing, still dead last in completion %. What more do you need to know? Our WRs actually have the LEAST drops in the NFL, so don't try the "Well the receivers...." no they've been making incredible catches all year for Hoyer. Until last week. Dropped several. And again, he's doing it with crap receivers.
If you think that statement is untrue, then you've stopped living in reality. Why do you care "why" people support him? What a puss thing to say. It's as if "we fans" are the reason he's starting and "we fans" are calling the shots. Anyone can like any player they want for whatever reason they want, who gives a fuck???
The only thing that matters is what RAY FARMER and MIKE PETTINE think. And, right now, they think HOYER is better than Johnny....get it?
Just these ones.
Last week before the Jacksonville game, as a team the Browns had 5 total drops. This week, post Jacksonville as a team the Browns have 5 total drops. So you tell me how many drops were in the Jacksonville game. Give it a shot.
I agree with that Brian Hoyer is better RIGHT NOW then Johnny Manziel, god 7 years in and many starts under his belt, I hope he is. I also agree Chad Henne is better then Blake Bortles right now, and Matt Schaub is better then Derek Carr right now, but RIGHT NOW we're not a championship contender so I don't give a shit about RIGHT NOW and I do give a shit about the future and in the future Hoyer is going to be Hoyer and we need to find out who Manziel is. Just like The Jags, Raiders, Vikings, Titans, etc etc are doing. Its vital to know ASAP what you have because you need to plan, not just for this week, for the future.
Now if I'm Pettine I want the guy RIGHT NOW, because its my job and in my head I can build a Super Bowl winner RIGHT NOW, but he's as biased as the fans and once it becomes a reality that the playoffs aren't in our future, Manziel needs to start and I would bet he would agree with that too. Hell he's already considering it.
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What's the rush to change QBs?
As I mentioned before, a few plays for Manziel to get his feet wet is fine with me. I'd like to see him get a series here-and-there, but I'm not starting him if I'm the HC. He is so young and "raw" for an NFL QB, what's the point in rushing him out? Hoyer is not playing great, but he's not playing terribly. He got beat up against JAX, but how many drops were there? How much pressure did he have in his face? Who are his weapons?
I think Hoyer can get the job done, and put this team in the playoffs. From there, who knows what can happen?? If he doesn't, let the competetion begin next offseason. Or, let Hoyer walk and bring in a different vet FA to compete with Manziel...
Again, what's the rush to change? We still want to win... even if that means only winning 6-8 games. Hoyer gives us the best chance... right now. If Manziel shows something in a few drives, then we can start talking...
The rush is the sooner you see what Manziel has, the sooner you can make plans for the future. Also the sooner he plays the sooner he gets acclimated and better. Like I said next two draft classes are stacked at QB, you want to know what's going on very soon. What is the point of winning 6-8 games? Honestly whats the point? This is what I mean by low self esteem. To you 6-8 wins is AWESOME and how dare we change anything when that is AWESOME. It's not. It's worthless.
Also quit talking about drops, on the season our entire team has 5 total drops. Best in the NFL. Brian missed 25 of 41 passes, so lets not act like drops played a part in that performance.
Once again you guys can't discuss Hoyer with actual information, it's becomes "Oh well the drops and the..." none of that is factual. It's not backed up by stats, its only developed in your bias brains, not by reality.
The rush is the sooner you see what Manziel has, the sooner you can make plans for the future. Also the sooner he plays the sooner he gets acclimated and better. Like I said next two draft classes are stacked at QB, you want to know what's going on very soon. What is the point of winning 6-8 games? Honestly whats the point? This is what I mean by low self esteem. To you 6-8 wins is AWESOME and how dare we change anything when that is AWESOME. It's not. It's worthless.
Also quit talking about drops, on the season our entire team has 5 total drops. Best in the NFL. Brian missed 25 of 41 passes, so lets not act like drops played a part in that performance.
Once again you guys can't discuss Hoyer with actual information, it's becomes "Oh well the drops and the..." none of that is factual. It's not backed up by stats, its only developed in your bias brains, not by reality.
The sooner he plays, the better he gets??? WTF?? More like, the sooner he plays the sooner D-coordinators see his weaknesses and the sooner they exploit his weaknesses, and the sooner his confidence is shot. Haven't you watched the fu**ing Browns in the past 10 years???
Quit being an asshole. Every week we want to win. I'm just saying, Hoyer gives us the best chance to win... right now!! What's the point of looking to "the future" when you're 3-3?? You'd be fired in a fu**ing second if you were the coach and made the change right now??
I'm not a Hoyer apologist!!!!! So, don't talk to me like I'm an idiot....
Like I said, give him a few snaps and see what he's got. But, if you changed starting QBs right now when you're team is playing .500 football and you have a game against a winless team... YOU'D BE A FU**ING MORON!!!!!!!!!!
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