Shaq? For real?
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For the year he averaged 10. I see what your saying, he just can't produce the way he used to though. I would rather have Jefferson.
Any NEWS? Only 20 minutes left, Ferry is probably running in circles (sort of like when he played, ohhhhhhh zing)
I was just saying before he was traded to CLE. Before the trade he was averaging 13 a night for SEA. His number of shot attempts went down in CLE and have continued to. But CLE has more options than SEA had.
I'd gladly take Jefferson for him though. Jefferson can play the same roll, but is much better than Wally all around.
Masters said:
I was just saying before he was traded to CLE. Before the trade he was averaging 13 a night for SEA. His number of shot attempts went down in CLE and have continued to. But CLE has more options than SEA had.I'd gladly take Jefferson for him though. Jefferson can play the same roll, but is much better than Wally all around.
I see the stats too, but tell me one time he hit a big shot? Every time I see him in the 4th with 3 minutes left I cringe. You can be a solid player, but if you can't hit the big shot? That's what we need. None of this I'm a 13 million dollar role player.
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AdaM said:
Wally has his role, he's a fantastic free throw shooter, a veteran leader, and he played damn good last night in Toronto.Besides the free throw shooting, I don't buy it. He blows.
Besides the free throw shooting, I don't buy it. He blows.
11.5 ppg over the last 5, 41% three point shooter... He's not that bad, he just doesn't take enough shots.
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Besides the free throw shooting, I don't buy it. He blows.
11.5 ppg over the last 5, 41% three point shooter... He's not that bad, he just doesn't take enough shots.
AdaM said:
11.5 ppg over the last 5, 41% three point shooter... He's not that bad, he just doesn't take enough shots.Don't get me wrong he's a good bench player, just can't hit the shot when it matters. I would like to see his 4th quarter stats. At least this season. I swear it's a joke between me and my brother.
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Masters said:
I was just saying before he was traded to CLE. Before the trade he was averaging 13 a night for SEA. His number of shot attempts went down in CLE and have continued to. But CLE has more options than SEA had.I'd gladly take Jefferson for him though. Jefferson can play the same roll, but is much better than Wally all around.
I see the stats too, but tell me one time he hit a big shot? Every time I see him in the 4th with 3 minutes left I cringe. You can be a solid player, but if you can't hit the big shot? That's what we need. None of this I'm a 13 million dollar role player.
I see the stats too, but tell me one time he hit a big shot? Every time I see him in the 4th with 3 minutes left I cringe. You can be a solid player, but if you can't hit the big shot? That's what we need. None of this I'm a 13 million dollar role player.
I can't think of a big shot attempt he has had to make. Unless I go back to last years playoffs against BOS when he shot horrible. With 3 minutes left to go in a game, Wally isn't even likely to get the shot. Not with Mo and James on this team. Not like Wally has ever been asked to take a Fisher or Robert Horry shot.
The whole hit the big shot thing is just silly. There is one guy in the NBA who can hit the "big shot" on a regular basis, and his name is Kobe.
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Good article, but not any new News
Cleveland Cavaliers should make the deal to get Shaquille O'Neal
by Terry Pluto / Plain Dealer Columnist
Thursday February 19, 2009, 1:09 PM
CLEVELAND -- Shaquille O'Neal to the Cavaliers for Ben Wallace and Sasha Pavlovic?
That's the offer the Cavs are making for a future Hall of Fame center, according to Plain Dealer Cavs beat reporter Brian Windhorst -- and the Phoenix Suns supposedly are thinking about it.
I am, too.
Assuming coach Mike Brown, LeBron James and other key veterans are in favor of adding O'Neal, so am I -- at least for Wallace and Pavlovic. James is very close to Shaq, dating to back to when James was in high school and Shaq was in Cleveland with the Lakers. Shaq rented a limo and went to Canton to see James play a tournament game for St. Vincent-St. Mary. My guess is James is for the deal.
Wallace is paid $14.5 million this season, about $14 million next year. Pavlovic is part of the deal to make it work on the cap.
If this is the package, I like it because:
1. The Cavs don't have to give up a core player. Wallace is a solid starter, but not nearly as important to the team as Delonte West and Anderson Varejao -- two players whom other teams have been asking about.
2. O'Neal can still play. In 30 minutes a game, he's averaging 17.2 points, 8.8 rebounds and even shooting a career high 62 percent from the foul line.
3. Shaq does love to win. He has four titles with two different teams. At 37, this is his last chance to add a fifth ring, and that should appeal to him. The Cavs could use a low-post scoring threat because Z has been spending so much time outside.
4. His contract will be an "expiring" deal next season, much as Wally Szczerbiak's deal is today -- meaning it's in the final year, and is an attractive piece in a trade for a team with salary cap and/or money problems. That's why the Suns would rather have Szczerbiak than Wallace in this possible trade.
My concerns are:
1. Will Shaq clog up the middle, meaning James and others can't drive to the basket as he and his defender are in the way? Wallace does not want the ball, so that leaves plenty of shots and room to maneuver for James and Mo Williams.
2. What impact will he have on Mike Brown's team defense? I don't know how well he moves in the context of what the Cavs need from their big man.
3. The Cavs would have to start Shaq and Anderson Varejao, and they'd have to bring Zydrunas Ilgauskas off the bench. Z and Shaq can play at times on offense because Z is such a terrific outside shooter, but that is a very slow combination on defense.
4. You don't know if this will work, and the Cavs do have real chemistry with players who know their roles.
The bottom line:
I'd take the chance and make the deal ... only if it's Wallace and Pavlovic.
But here's the qualifier:
1. I would not sub in Szczerbiak because Wallace and Shaq and Z on the same team is too many big guys.
2. I want Szczerbiak's contract because the $13 million expires and gives the Cabs more room to sign Varejao to an extension this summer. But having Wallace and Shaq chewing up nearly $35 million on the cap next season is a nightmare.
3. If Pavlovic is traded, Delonte West coming off a broken wrist and Daniel Gibson being injury prone -- the Cavs do need Szczerbiak in the backcourt.
And finally ...
Will it work? I don't know. But I'll take the chance if the price is Wallace and Pavlovic.
But here's the qualifier:
1. I would not sub in Szczerbiak because Wallace and Shaq and Z on the same team is too many big guys.
2. I want Szczerbiak's contract because the $13 million expires and gives the Cabs more room to sign Varejao to an extension this summer. But having Wallace and Shaq chewing up nearly $35 million on the cap next season is a nightmare.
3. If Pavlovic is traded, Delonte West coming off a broken wrist and Daniel Gibson being injury prone -- the Cavs do need Szczerbiak in the backcourt.
And finally ...
Will it work? I don't know. But I'll take the chance if the price is Wallace and Pavlovic.
Sounds like Pluto has been reading my posts....lol Same reasons I have said not to move Wally.
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AdaM said:
11.5 ppg over the last 5, 41% three point shooter... He's not that bad, he just doesn't take enough shots.Don't get me wrong he's a good bench player, just can't hit the shot when it matters. I would like to see his 4th quarter stats. At least this season. I swear it's a joke between me and my brother.
Don't get me wrong he's a good bench player, just can't hit the shot when it matters. I would like to see his 4th quarter stats. At least this season. I swear it's a joke between me and my brother.
Can't give you his 4th quarter stats, but this shows you how he plays when he starts or sees starter minutes (averaging over 10 when he gets the minutes)
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3329/s...MeTZIPzqodZPKB4
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For the year he averaged 10. I see what your saying, he just can't produce the way he used to though. I would rather have Jefferson.
Any NEWS? Only 20 minutes left, Ferry is probably running in circles (sort of like when he played, ohhhhhhh zing)
I was just saying before he was traded to CLE. Before the trade he was averaging 13 a night for SEA. His number of shot attempts went down in CLE and have continued to. But CLE has more options than SEA had.
I'd gladly take Jefferson for him though. Jefferson can play the same roll, but is much better than Wally all around.
Masters said:
I was just saying before he was traded to CLE. Before the trade he was averaging 13 a night for SEA. His number of shot attempts went down in CLE and have continued to. But CLE has more options than SEA had.I'd gladly take Jefferson for him though. Jefferson can play the same roll, but is much better than Wally all around.
I found the stats, Wally is averaging 1.3 points in the 4th quarter with 30% from 3-point.
Sasha & Gibson have better 3 point % and between all the regulars (except Wallace of course) is averaging the lowest point total for the year. How much is Gibson making? Not 13 mil.
What does that say about not "getting attempts". Because he can't hit a 4th quarter shot. This also makes sense why he averaged so much with other teams, because he was riding the pine for someone making half what he makes.
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Don't get me wrong he's a good bench player, just can't hit the shot when it matters. I would like to see his 4th quarter stats. At least this season. I swear it's a joke between me and my brother.
Can't give you his 4th quarter stats, but this shows you how he plays when he starts or sees starter minutes (averaging over 10 when he gets the minutes)
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3329/s...MeTZIPzqodZPKB4
Masters said:
Can't give you his 4th quarter stats, but this shows you how he plays when he starts or sees starter minutes (averaging over 10 when he gets the minutes)http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3329/s...MeTZIPzqodZPKB4
Proving my point he shouldn't be in to close the game, he starts cool, but sit him the the 4th.
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I see the stats too, but tell me one time he hit a big shot? Every time I see him in the 4th with 3 minutes left I cringe. You can be a solid player, but if you can't hit the big shot? That's what we need. None of this I'm a 13 million dollar role player.
I can't think of a big shot attempt he has had to make. Unless I go back to last years playoffs against BOS when he shot horrible. With 3 minutes left to go in a game, Wally isn't even likely to get the shot. Not with Mo and James on this team. Not like Wally has ever been asked to take a Fisher or Robert Horry shot.
The whole hit the big shot thing is just silly. There is one guy in the NBA who can hit the "big shot" on a regular basis, and his name is Kobe.
Masters said:
I can't think of a big shot attempt he has had to make. Unless I go back to last years playoffs against BOS when he shot horrible. With 3 minutes left to go in a game, Wally isn't even likely to get the shot. Not with Mo and James on this team. Not like Wally has ever been asked to take a Fisher or Robert Horry shot.The whole hit the big shot thing is just silly. There is one guy in the NBA who can hit the "big shot" on a regular basis, and his name is Kobe.
Really? I am not talking about the game winning shot every game, I am talking about when we are down 8 with 5 minutes left, he bricks a 3 pointer and then gets beat down the court because of the bricked long rebound.
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Masters said:
I was just saying before he was traded to CLE. Before the trade he was averaging 13 a night for SEA. His number of shot attempts went down in CLE and have continued to. But CLE has more options than SEA had.I'd gladly take Jefferson for him though. Jefferson can play the same roll, but is much better than Wally all around.
I found the stats, Wally is averaging 1.3 points in the 4th quarter with 30% from 3-point.
Sasha & Gibson have better 3 point % and between all the regulars (except Wallace of course) is averaging the lowest point total for the year. How much is Gibson making? Not 13 mil.
What does that say about not "getting attempts". Because he can't hit a 4th quarter shot. This also makes sense why he averaged so much with other teams, because he was riding the pine for someone making half what he makes.
I found the stats, Wally is averaging 1.3 points in the 4th quarter with 30% from 3-point.
Sasha & Gibson have better 3 point % and between all the regulars (except Wallace of course) is averaging the lowest point total for the year. How much is Gibson making? Not 13 mil.
What does that say about not "getting attempts". Because he can't hit a 4th quarter shot. This also makes sense why he averaged so much with other teams, because he was riding the pine for someone making half what he makes.
With a healthy West, Wally wouldn't be in late in a 4th QTR.
And of course getting attempts matters. Look at the stats you just showed (which include a %, which attempts/makes greatly says a %). That .3 difference in shot ATT between Wally and Sasha on is the difference in their %. Looking at the 3's, you got 2 guys not even averaging 1 whole att a game, and Boobie at over 1. For the points, you are comparing against Boobie who has played 100 more minutes in the 4th quarter and getting a little more than 1 shot more a 4th QTR than Wally or Sasha. Which actually also goes to show Wally ain't seeing shots or time in the 4th QTR.
So it still begs the question, when has Wally been asked to make a big shot in the 4th quarter with less than 3 minutes left?
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Masters said:
I can't think of a big shot attempt he has had to make. Unless I go back to last years playoffs against BOS when he shot horrible. With 3 minutes left to go in a game, Wally isn't even likely to get the shot. Not with Mo and James on this team. Not like Wally has ever been asked to take a Fisher or Robert Horry shot.The whole hit the big shot thing is just silly. There is one guy in the NBA who can hit the "big shot" on a regular basis, and his name is Kobe.
Really? I am not talking about the game winning shot every game, I am talking about when we are down 8 with 5 minutes left, he bricks a 3 pointer and then gets beat down the court because of the bricked long rebound.
Really? I am not talking about the game winning shot every game, I am talking about when we are down 8 with 5 minutes left, he bricks a 3 pointer and then gets beat down the court because of the bricked long rebound.
Dude, I see that same stuff from Lebron, Sasha, and Boobie too in those situations too. I actually see it the most from James, not Wally.
And you just said a couple of posts ago "Every time I see him in the 4th with 3 minutes left I cringe".
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I found the stats, Wally is averaging 1.3 points in the 4th quarter with 30% from 3-point.
Sasha & Gibson have better 3 point % and between all the regulars (except Wallace of course) is averaging the lowest point total for the year. How much is Gibson making? Not 13 mil.
What does that say about not "getting attempts". Because he can't hit a 4th quarter shot. This also makes sense why he averaged so much with other teams, because he was riding the pine for someone making half what he makes.
With a healthy West, Wally wouldn't be in late in a 4th QTR.
And of course getting attempts matters. Look at the stats you just showed (which include a %, which attempts/makes greatly says a %). That .3 difference in shot ATT between Wally and Sasha on is the difference in their %. Looking at the 3's, you got 2 guys not even averaging 1 whole att a game, and Boobie at over 1. For the points, you are comparing against Boobie who has played 100 more minutes in the 4th quarter and getting a little more than 1 shot more a 4th QTR than Wally or Sasha. Which actually also goes to show Wally ain't seeing shots or time in the 4th QTR.
So it still begs the question, when has Wally been asked to make a big shot in the 4th quarter with less than 3 minutes left?
Masters said:
With a healthy West, Wally wouldn't be in late in a 4th QTR.And of course getting attempts matters. Look at the stats you just showed (which include a %, which attempts/makes greatly says a %). That .3 difference in shot ATT between Wally and Sasha on is the difference in their %. Looking at the 3's, you got 2 guys not even averaging 1 whole att a game, and Boobie at over 1. For the points, you are comparing against Boobie who has played 100 more minutes in the 4th quarter. Which actually also goes to show Wally ain't seeing shots or time in the 4th QTR.
So it still begs the question, when has Wally been asked to make a big shot in the 4th quarter with less than 3 minutes left?
Thank you for making my point for me. We don't ask him because he can't.
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Really? I am not talking about the game winning shot every game, I am talking about when we are down 8 with 5 minutes left, he bricks a 3 pointer and then gets beat down the court because of the bricked long rebound.
Dude, I see that same stuff from Lebron, Sasha, and Boobie too in those situations too. I actually see it the most from James, not Wally.
And you just said a couple of posts ago "Every time I see him in the 4th with 3 minutes left I cringe".
Masters said:
Dude, I see that same stuff from Lebron, Sasha, and Boobie too in those situations too. I actually see it the most from James, not Wally.True, man look at Lebron's 3 point & in the 4th, LOL. It's like 24% percent or something. I agree.
I do remember a hot Boobie (LOL) last year when the time came down to it.
I am just not a fan, don't think he's worth what he getting paid, that's all.
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Masters said:
With a healthy West, Wally wouldn't be in late in a 4th QTR.And of course getting attempts matters. Look at the stats you just showed (which include a %, which attempts/makes greatly says a %). That .3 difference in shot ATT between Wally and Sasha on is the difference in their %. Looking at the 3's, you got 2 guys not even averaging 1 whole att a game, and Boobie at over 1. For the points, you are comparing against Boobie who has played 100 more minutes in the 4th quarter. Which actually also goes to show Wally ain't seeing shots or time in the 4th QTR.
So it still begs the question, when has Wally been asked to make a big shot in the 4th quarter with less than 3 minutes left?
Thank you for making my point for me. We don't ask him because he can't.
Thank you for making my point for me. We don't ask him because he can't.
They don't ask cause they don't need him to. Plus Boobie plays better D at the 2G than Wally, so in the closing minutes Boobie sees the time. But that is sort of my point in the end. Your saying Wally can't hit the shots in the 4th, but there is nothing to back that up. He isn't even given the chance in the 4th that the others get.
I'd agree he isn't worth what he is paid, at least not for CLE. But that isn't really an issue since he is in the last year of his deal. What matters in the end is does he get his job on this team done. Thsi year, that is a big yes.
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Thank you for making my point for me. We don't ask him because he can't.
They don't ask cause they don't need him to. Plus Boobie plays better D at the 2G than Wally, so in the closing minutes Boobie sees the time. But that is sort of my point in the end. Your saying Wally can't hit the shots in the 4th, but there is nothing to back that up. He isn't even given the chance in the 4th that the others get.
I'd agree he isn't worth what he is paid, at least not for CLE. But that isn't really an issue since he is in the last year of his deal. What matters in the end is does he get his job on this team done. Thsi year, that is a big yes.
Masters said:
They don't ask cause they don't need him to. Plus Boobie plays better D at the 2G than Wally, so in the closing minutes Boobie sees the time. But that is sort of my point in the end. Your saying Wally can't hit the shots in the 4th, but there is nothing to back that up. He isn't even given the chance in the 4th that the others get.I'd agree he isn't worth what he is paid, at least not for CLE. But that isn't really an issue since he is in the last year of his deal. What matters in the end is does he get his job on this team done. Thsi year, that is a big yes.
Point taken. Let's see if he can step up with everyone hurt. Hopefully we can see a hot Boobie in the playoffs again. Had to type it again, I didn't realize what I was typing the first time after I typed it. I was laughing out loud in my office.
Let's go Cavs!
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Will all depend on how healthy Boobie is. He is just starting to get his shot back. Need him to not have an injuries before or during the playoffs.
Masters said:
Will all depend on how healthy Boobie is. He is just starting to get his shot back. Need him to not have an injuries before or during the playoffs.A healthy Boobie is always good.
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Masters said:
You all see Shaq having to resort to flopping against Howard tonight?no
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What I see by looking at the stats is Shaq and Howard had relatively even games.
He did flop once...they just showed it on ESPN and it's getting attention because he specifically said before the game that he hopes the refs let them "bang around" and there's "no flopping."
That said, they had relatively even games. Howard was in foul trouble early, instead of GETTING his opponents in foul trouble. Makes a differerence...though they still won the game.
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