Running Backs - Handled Negatively
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I don't know how much the backs have to do with it, tbh.
Tate had a career day in his first game back from injury, so saying the run game went to non-existant since Tate came back isn't very fair.
I think the openings just aren't there like they were before.
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Where was Crowell yesterday? He is the best of the 3, in my opinion. I think he had 1 carry for 1 yard. They could all do well in the right system, but Crowell should be the primary r.b. here.
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Where was Crowell yesterday? He is the best of the 3, in my opinion. I think he had 1 carry for 1 yard. They could all do well in the right system, but Crowell should be the primary r.b. here.
Where was Crowell yesterday? He is the best of the 3, in my opinion. I think he had 1 carry for 1 yard. They could all do well in the right system, but Crowell should be the primary r.b. here.
Not sure, didn't see much of him. He's been our hardest runner I think - but he's gotta work on the fumbles.
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None of this is remotely relevant until next season. Without even a replacement-level C, we have no run game until Mack gets back. Hopefully one of next year's 1st rd picks is OT so that Schwartz is the first backup.
Dallas owns the league right now.. bc their OL is dominant.
The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you. "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
I saw Crowell in there for one play. In any case, the RBs are not the problem. The O-line makes the running back, and our O-line is still struggling since Mack was injured. Anyone who thinks one guy can't make this much difference on the line needs to go back to see how all the Browns players reacted when Mack went down vs. the Squeelers.
"I said, 'I need someone who's going to want to get on the roller coaster with me knowing that it's not always going to be fun,'" -Paul DePodesta -
Where was Crowell yesterday? He is the best of the 3, in my opinion. I think he had 1 carry for 1 yard. They could all do well in the right system, but Crowell should be the primary r.b. here.
Not sure, didn't see much of him. He's been our hardest runner I think - but he's gotta work on the fumbles.
Not sure, didn't see much of him. He's been our hardest runner I think - but he's gotta work on the fumbles.
He's fumbled once. How does that mean he has to work on fumbles?
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I mentioned earlier that I thought a 3 RB system could work, but I do agree the way it's being implemented is lousy right now. They keep saying they will go with the "hot hand" but that's no way to build rapport. Ben Tate, as of today, is the best all around back on our roster. If the plan is to run the ball 30-35 times, Tate should get at minimum 20 of those carries. If it were up to me, I'd then split the remaining as mostly Crowell with West sprinkled in. I don't even think West is bad, but Crowell is proving to be better. With Tate on a 2 year deal, there's no reason not to groom both guys now with Tate firmly the main ball carrier.
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problem is we can't run the ball even close to 30 times because
A) the opposing defensive looks like it literally must line up in our backfield somehow because one of em is within ft of the handoff on every single running play.
our defense isn't good enough to keep the score low enough to pound teams with the run. It's my preferred football philosophy, build a monster defense and an offense built around 3 yd avg with clouds of dust. But we aren't there yet. If we had a defense that could conceivably hold even the best of teams to 20 or less, than we can think about running the ball 30 times. We can't win with Hoyer having to start throwing deep balls into double coverage early. Maybe when Gordon comes back who knows. BUt not now. -
problem is we can't run the ball even close to 30 times because
A) the opposing defensive looks like it literally must line up in our backfield somehow because one of em is within ft of the handoff on every single running play.
our defense isn't good enough to keep the score low enough to pound teams with the run. It's my preferred football philosophy, build a monster defense and an offense built around 3 yd avg with clouds of dust. But we aren't there yet. If we had a defense that could conceivably hold even the best of teams to 20 or less, than we can think about running the ball 30 times. We can't win with Hoyer having to start throwing deep balls into double coverage early. Maybe when Gordon comes back who knows. BUt not now.problem is we can't run the ball even close to 30 times because
A) the opposing defensive looks like it literally must line up in our backfield somehow because one of em is within ft of the handoff on every single running play.
our defense isn't good enough to keep the score low enough to pound teams with the run. It's my preferred football philosophy, build a monster defense and an offense built around 3 yd avg with clouds of dust. But we aren't there yet. If we had a defense that could conceivably hold even the best of teams to 20 or less, than we can think about running the ball 30 times. We can't win with Hoyer having to start throwing deep balls into double coverage early. Maybe when Gordon comes back who knows. BUt not now.I'm not sure what games you've been watching, but we've ran the ball 30+ in every game except yesterday, with three games running it exactly 30 times. It sure seems like that's what they want to do.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/splits/_/name/cle/type/rushing/cleveland-browns
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None of this is remotely relevant until next season. Without even a replacement-level C, we have no run game until Mack gets back. Hopefully one of next year's 1st rd picks is OT so that Schwartz is the first backup.
Dallas owns the league right now.. bc their OL is dominant.
None of this is remotely relevant until next season. Without even a replacement-level C, we have no run game until Mack gets back. Hopefully one of next year's 1st rd picks is OT so that Schwartz is the first backup.
Dallas owns the league right now.. bc their OL is dominant.
No free agents worth anything available? What about a trade?....we could spare a running back. Maybe West....he certainly has some value.
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I don't see the RB's as being mishandled at all.
I saw them being the #1 running game in the league. Then I saw our #1 center go down. Then I saw the OL immediately stop producing.
So are we saying that, after 5 games leading the league, the coaches all of a sudden screwed up the backs???
Bah
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I don't see the RB's as being mishandled at all.
I saw them being the #1 running game in the league. Then I saw our #1 center go down. Then I saw the OL immediately stop producing.
So are we saying that, after 5 games leading the league, the coaches all of a sudden screwed up the backs???
Bah
I don't see the RB's as being mishandled at all.
I saw them being the #1 running game in the league. Then I saw our #1 center go down. Then I saw the OL immediately stop producing.
So are we saying that, after 5 games leading the league, the coaches all of a sudden screwed up the backs???
Bah
I think we were mishandling them after Tate's return.
While Tate returned as the feature back, initially the backup role was split roughly evenly between West and Crow. Yesterday West was the clear #2 with 8 touches and Crow the #3 with 2 (1 carry, 1 catch). Compare to the JAX game where the touches were Tate 17, Crow 8 and West 6. Both West and Crow talked about how hard it was to stay warm/ find a rhythm with so little work .
A clear #2 is how it needs to be. Who it is may vary week to week.
As for fumbles... Crow seems to carry the ball more loosely than the other two, i.e., swinging it away from his body more. So far he's only been caught once in a game... so far...
But all that said... the real run issue has been the line since Mack.
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Kyle Shanahan's zone blocking scheme....the one his dad used to have 1000 yard runners like Terrell Davis, Orlandis Gary, Alfred Morris, etc. etc. may be on the order of the Mike Holmgren/Pat Shurmur West Coast offense. Defenders have seen it so much for so long that they now know how to defend it.....and it is not working. To get the run game going Shanahan is going to have to adapt.....to new defenses.....to running it without his Pro Bowl center.
Now, I think, we will see what this OC is make of. He has met adversity. Will he adapt.....or go the route of the dinosaurs ala the Holmgren WCO.
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I saw Crowell in there for one play. In any case, the RBs are not the problem. The O-line makes the running back, and our O-line is still struggling since Mack was injured. Anyone who thinks one guy can't make this much difference on the line needs to go back to see how all the Browns players reacted when Mack went down vs. the Squeelers.
I agree 100%. This is exactly why I get so frustrated when people bitch about 1st round offensive line draft picks.I saw Crowell in there for one play. In any case, the RBs are not the problem. The O-line makes the running back, and our O-line is still struggling since Mack was injured. Anyone who thinks one guy can't make this much difference on the line needs to go back to see how all the Browns players reacted when Mack went down vs. the Squeelers.
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I understand Mack's worth to final numbers, but this Topic was about how "negatively" we've handled these guys ... when it was so easy to manage/coach them positively.
I coached (baseball) for many years and there is an art to keeping your players "up" and have them playing confidently. It's not an easy task, but the way this coaching staff has approached this position is mind boggling.
I understand that Tate was the featured back and had the starting job un-questionably secured heading into the season, and I understand Mack's worth, not just to the continuity of the line and blocking schemes, but to his teammates and locker room ... but how a coaching staff handles situations when those two guys go down injured says a lot and so far it's not been handled very well and it started to go South even before Tate's return and well before Mack's injury.
Don't get me started feeding a feud in the press between Hoyer & Manziel and their long-term contracts or not. Complete assine to have that paraded out during the seasons high-peak to date. Professionals? ha!
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First of all, Im happy to get a win this past Sunday, but unfortunately the way we have been playing against struggling teams is not going to cut it in our competitive division. It's obvious we need to develop a running game to be more of a passing threat. Im angry about the substitution rotation with the backs. What is wrong with Kyle Shanahan if he want to live up to his fathers name, he is not moving in the right direction, Is it me, or people is oblivious to the talent we have in Isaiah Crowell. He runs with great intensity, he carries defensive backs for an extra yard or two. He had 52 snaps gaining 265 yards, averaging 4.9 yards per carry and only took one snap this past Sunday. Whats wrong with Kyle Shanahan we did not win because of him.
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Where was Crowell yesterday? He is the best of the 3, in my opinion. I think he had 1 carry for 1 yard. They could all do well in the right system, but Crowell should be the primary r.b. here.
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