Brian Hoyer-hating seems misguided and misplaced
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I have been watching Texas A&M football my entire life so when Johnny got drafted by the Browns I decided they were going to be my team. I studied up on the players and coaches and was ready to go all in for the season. When Hoyer won the job I figured like most that it was just a matter of time before Johnny got in. But it seems that isn't going to happen for a while.
I am trying my best to root for this team, but it is very hard to be unbiased. I don't think anybody can say Hoyer hasn't done a good job as the starter. It is hard to argue with 5 wins. He has played very well at the end of games to win them and he limits his mistakes. However his play during stretches of some games, especially the first half, has been downright awful. Some of the blame has to go to the running game and o line, but I can't imagine the better quarterbacks in the league struggling as bad as Hoyer. I think at this point in his career this is who Hoyer is. Can make some good throws but is never going to elevate the team to new heights.
It seems most of you never actually watched Johnny at A&M. You only go off of what you saw in the preseason. For those of you that want to compare Johnny to the likes of Tim Tebow, Brady Quinn, Vince Young, Matt Leinart, RG3, Colt Mccoy, and others you are a little off. Obviously success in college doesn't always translate to the NFL but Johnny was on a whole other level to those guys. Just look at the stats and tape and it is not even close. Johnny didn't win championships sure but he was only at A&M for his freshman and sophomore years and his teams were nowhere near as good as the teams the other quarterbacks had.
Some of the concerns you all have about him are unfounded. Johnny is as durable as they come. He isn't RG3 or Vick. His first year at A&M he ran 201 times and missed less than a quarter because a guy rolled over on his ankle after the play was over. His second year he injured his thumb hitting a helmet but that was basically it. The only reason he rarely slid or ran out of bounds is because A&M's defense was horrible and every yard was important. His arm is a lot better that people think too. His passing was best in the nation by a lot of statistics. He rarely missed guys. Most of the interceptions he threw were, again, because of A&M's defense, he couldn't just throw it away and punt. And finally his running ability was the best I have ever seen. You can give me Hoyer's passing numbers but he has -3 rushing yards. The simple threat of Johnny running ability will help the running backs a little bit and the few times Hoyer threw an incomplete pass Johnny might have ran for 20 yards.
If Johnny isn't playing because he isn't ready then I am fine having him sit the bench. But if he isn't playing because Hoyer has played just good enough to not get benched then I really think they need to make the switch.
I have been watching Texas A&M football my entire life so when Johnny got drafted by the Browns I decided they were going to be my team. I studied up on the players and coaches and was ready to go all in for the season. When Hoyer won the job I figured like most that it was just a matter of time before Johnny got in. But it seems that isn't going to happen for a while.
I am trying my best to root for this team, but it is very hard to be unbiased. I don't think anybody can say Hoyer hasn't done a good job as the starter. It is hard to argue with 5 wins. He has played very well at the end of games to win them and he limits his mistakes. However his play during stretches of some games, especially the first half, has been downright awful. Some of the blame has to go to the running game and o line, but I can't imagine the better quarterbacks in the league struggling as bad as Hoyer. I think at this point in his career this is who Hoyer is. Can make some good throws but is never going to elevate the team to new heights.
It seems most of you never actually watched Johnny at A&M. You only go off of what you saw in the preseason. For those of you that want to compare Johnny to the likes of Tim Tebow, Brady Quinn, Vince Young, Matt Leinart, RG3, Colt Mccoy, and others you are a little off. Obviously success in college doesn't always translate to the NFL but Johnny was on a whole other level to those guys. Just look at the stats and tape and it is not even close. Johnny didn't win championships sure but he was only at A&M for his freshman and sophomore years and his teams were nowhere near as good as the teams the other quarterbacks had.
Some of the concerns you all have about him are unfounded. Johnny is as durable as they come. He isn't RG3 or Vick. His first year at A&M he ran 201 times and missed less than a quarter because a guy rolled over on his ankle after the play was over. His second year he injured his thumb hitting a helmet but that was basically it. The only reason he rarely slid or ran out of bounds is because A&M's defense was horrible and every yard was important. His arm is a lot better that people think too. His passing was best in the nation by a lot of statistics. He rarely missed guys. Most of the interceptions he threw were, again, because of A&M's defense, he couldn't just throw it away and punt. And finally his running ability was the best I have ever seen. You can give me Hoyer's passing numbers but he has -3 rushing yards. The simple threat of Johnny running ability will help the running backs a little bit and the few times Hoyer threw an incomplete pass Johnny might have ran for 20 yards.
If Johnny isn't playing because he isn't ready then I am fine having him sit the bench. But if he isn't playing because Hoyer has played just good enough to not get benched then I really think they need to make the switch.
Although Hoyer has been in the League for several years, keep in mind he's only Started/played like 11 or 12 games.
He hasn't even played a full Season's worth yet . . . he's essentially an "experienced" Rookie, and is still in his Rookie year playing experience wise.
Manziel is probably more Athletic than Hoyer, but Hoyer is playing a more Cerebral NFL level game than Manziel is going to be able to do right now.
You're probably not too familiar with our history of just churning threw QB's.
There are a lot of reasons for this - poor supporting personnel, Coaching, Owner (previous) apathy, and so on.
The decent QB's we've had were put in too soon and thrown to the Wolves of our Division - we just ruined them.
Because of this, not too many players really cared to come here unless it was for excessive money.
In short, it's really in Manziel's best interest and longevity to sit right now and let the NFL game come to him.
Also, welcome to the board
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What I've been telling everyone this whole season since I'm the only Browns fan most people know. You keep the guy out there who is putting W's in the column instead of L's. I always had and still have my concerns with Hoyer, but the Browns are winning with him which is something we haven't seen coming on a decade. If he plays poorly and the losses start mounting up, then the calls for JM are warranted. Until then, just win, baby
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I have been watching Texas A&M football my entire life so when Johnny got drafted by the Browns I decided they were going to be my team. I studied up on the players and coaches and was ready to go all in for the season. When Hoyer won the job I figured like most that it was just a matter of time before Johnny got in. But it seems that isn't going to happen for a while.
I am trying my best to root for this team, but it is very hard to be unbiased. I don't think anybody can say Hoyer hasn't done a good job as the starter. It is hard to argue with 5 wins. He has played very well at the end of games to win them and he limits his mistakes. However his play during stretches of some games, especially the first half, has been downright awful. Some of the blame has to go to the running game and o line, but I can't imagine the better quarterbacks in the league struggling as bad as Hoyer. I think at this point in his career this is who Hoyer is. Can make some good throws but is never going to elevate the team to new heights.
It seems most of you never actually watched Johnny at A&M. You only go off of what you saw in the preseason. For those of you that want to compare Johnny to the likes of Tim Tebow, Brady Quinn, Vince Young, Matt Leinart, RG3, Colt Mccoy, and others you are a little off. Obviously success in college doesn't always translate to the NFL but Johnny was on a whole other level to those guys. Just look at the stats and tape and it is not even close. Johnny didn't win championships sure but he was only at A&M for his freshman and sophomore years and his teams were nowhere near as good as the teams the other quarterbacks had.
Some of the concerns you all have about him are unfounded. Johnny is as durable as they come. He isn't RG3 or Vick. His first year at A&M he ran 201 times and missed less than a quarter because a guy rolled over on his ankle after the play was over. His second year he injured his thumb hitting a helmet but that was basically it. The only reason he rarely slid or ran out of bounds is because A&M's defense was horrible and every yard was important. His arm is a lot better that people think too. His passing was best in the nation by a lot of statistics. He rarely missed guys. Most of the interceptions he threw were, again, because of A&M's defense, he couldn't just throw it away and punt. And finally his running ability was the best I have ever seen. You can give me Hoyer's passing numbers but he has -3 rushing yards. The simple threat of Johnny running ability will help the running backs a little bit and the few times Hoyer threw an incomplete pass Johnny might have ran for 20 yards.
If Johnny isn't playing because he isn't ready then I am fine having him sit the bench. But if he isn't playing because Hoyer has played just good enough to not get benched then I really think they need to make the switch.
If Johnny isn't playing because he isn't ready then I am fine having him sit the bench.
First, welcome... nice first post and so long as you don't repeat its "finer points" ad nauseam without any new information to validate them (and are actually a Browns fan), you'll have a great time here.
Here's one more that summarizes the way 98% of us around here feel...
"Let's not skip to the epilogue when the story is half over." - By Bud Shaw, The Plain Dealer
Great last line...
Exhibit A :
As for the years . . . let's just say I was alive when the Browns won their last Championship
lol... alive, but not aware? I remember the championship game... at least I used to...
On the gif... while bad (and still D- worthy), it appeared worse than it was. McD tripped over Bito's right leg. Without the trip McCoy still might have bulled McD into BH's lap, but an escape might have been possible.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
If Johnny isn't playing because he isn't ready then I am fine having him sit the bench.
First, welcome... nice first post and so long as you don't repeat its "finer points" ad nauseam without any new information to validate them (and are actually a Browns fan), you'll have a great time here.
Here's one more that summarizes the way 98% of us around here feel...
"Let's not skip to the epilogue when the story is half over." - By Bud Shaw, The Plain Dealer
Great last line...
Exhibit A :
As for the years . . . let's just say I was alive when the Browns won their last Championship
lol... alive, but not aware? I remember the championship game... at least I used to...
On the gif... while bad (and still D- worthy), it appeared worse than it was. McD tripped over Bito's right leg. Without the trip McCoy still might have bulled McD into BH's lap, but an escape might have been possible.
First, welcome... nice first post and so long as you don't repeat its "finer points" ad nauseam without any new information to validate them (and are actually a Browns fan), you'll have a great time here.
Great last line...
lol... alive, but not aware? I remember the championship game... at least I used to...
On the gif... while bad (and still D- worthy), it was worse than it appeared. McD tripped over Bito's right leg. Without the trip McCoy still might have bulled McD into BH's lap, but an escape might have been possible.
You mean appeared worse than it was? Cos it appeared pretty bad...
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First, welcome... nice first post and so long as you don't repeat its "finer points" ad nauseam without any new information to validate them (and are actually a Browns fan), you'll have a great time here.
Great last line...
lol... alive, but not aware? I remember the championship game... at least I used to...
On the gif... while bad (and still D- worthy), it was worse than it appeared. McD tripped over Bito's right leg. Without the trip McCoy still might have bulled McD into BH's lap, but an escape might have been possible.
You mean appeared worse than it was? Cos it appeared pretty bad...
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I don't know much about the finer points of OL play and assignments and things like that, but I do know about leverage from growing up around rugby, and scrums in particular. So when I see McDonald snap the ball, then immediately get upright, I can tell he's going to get driven back by anyone with better leverage, regardless of how strong he is.
Something like that is fixable, though probably not in one practise session (no practise mon/weds/thurs).
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Exactly who are the Manzealots that are not happy that the wrong QB is winning? Point one out please.
Exactly who are the Manzealots that are not happy that the wrong QB is winning? Point one out please.
Exactly my thinking. If some hear one person call for JF, they act like it is dozens or hundreds.
I don't know why they are so damn insecure.
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Exactly who are the Manzealots that are not happy that the wrong QB is winning? Point one out please.
Exactly my thinking. If some hear one person call for JF, they act like it is dozens or hundreds.
I don't know why they are so damn insecure.
Exactly my thinking. If some hear one person call for JF, they act like it is dozens or hundreds.
I don't know why they are so damn insecure.
Theyre insecure because he's not playing and the possibility of being a "bust" still looms.
Nickers...."There are no old running QB's in the NFL "~Sam Rutigliano~ -
So was that Bito's or McD's fault for that trip? Now that I see that gif...McD engaged and Bito came over to help him and slid his right leg behind McD's left. Not the way you want to help your boy is it?
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So was that Bito's or McD's fault for that trip? Now that I see that gif...McD engaged and Bito came over to help him and slid his right leg behind McD's left. Not the way you want to help your boy is it?
So was that Bito's or McD's fault for that trip? Now that I see that gif...McD engaged and Bito came over to help him and slid his right leg behind McD's left. Not the way you want to help your boy is it?
Idk that I'd really blame either of them. I'd blame McD more for getting thrown back so fast, but it is Gerald McCoy.
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So was that Bito's or McD's fault for that trip? Now that I see that gif...McD engaged and Bito came over to help him and slid his right leg behind McD's left. Not the way you want to help your boy is it?
Idk that I'd really blame either of them. I'd blame McD more for getting thrown back so fast, but it is Gerald McCoy.
The problem is that the instant he engaged with McCoy Bito's leg was behind him. So his base was essentially gone before he even got started. I mean he had problems the whole game, but not THAT bad as we see in that gif. That happened once. Yeah he couldn't keep guys out of the backfield much but he wasn't getting dropped on his ass. That's gotta be Bito's fault. Any of the guys that played O line here know that the line coaches always yelled at you if you doubled up on a guy and got your feet close to your lineman.....for this exact reason.
Idk that I'd really blame either of them. I'd blame McD more for getting thrown back so fast, but it is Gerald McCoy.
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โข QB Brian Hoyer improved to 8-3 as a starter for the Browns and6-1 at home following the teamโs 22-17 victory against Tampa Bay(11/2). Hoyer recorded his second 300-yard passing game and hehas engineered four fourth-quarter come-from-behind wins. Hoyeris also the fi rst Browns quarterback to throw for 200-plus yards ineach of the teamโs fi rst eight games of a season since Brian Sipein 1983. Hoyer is leading the NFL with an average of 13.79 yardsper completion this season. He is also tied for the NFL lead witheight completions of 40-plus yards. In addition, Hoyer is tied forfourth in the NFL with 33 passes of 20-plus yards. In Hoyerโs 11career starts with the Browns, the team is averaging 24.0 pointsper game. The Browns average 17.6 points per game in all othergames since 2013.^ Browns press release. Yes, it is fluff but it sure beats the Brady McFrye/Campweeden days.I think Hoyer has a big game against the Bengals. I think a short week and a road game is just we he needs right now, and he has his best game of the season.Zombo
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The problem is that the instant he engaged with McCoy Bito's leg was behind him. So his base was essentially gone before he even got started. I mean he had problems the whole game, but not THAT bad as we see in that gif. That happened once. Yeah he couldn't keep guys out of the backfield much but he wasn't getting dropped on his ass. That's gotta be Bito's fault. Any of the guys that played O line here know that the line coaches always yelled at you if you doubled up on a guy and got your feet close to your lineman.....for this exact reason.
Idk that I'd really blame either of them. I'd blame McD more for getting thrown back so fast, but it is Gerald McCoy.
The problem is that the instant he engaged with McCoy Bito's leg was behind him. So his base was essentially gone before he even got started. I mean he had problems the whole game, but not THAT bad as we see in that gif. That happened once. Yeah he couldn't keep guys out of the backfield much but he wasn't getting dropped on his ass. That's gotta be Bito's fault. Any of the guys that played O line here know that the line coaches always yelled at you if you doubled up on a guy and got your feet close to your lineman.....for this exact reason.
Looks like McD was bullied and dropped face down more than once, but he seemed to get a little better as the game went on.
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The problem is that the instant he engaged with McCoy Bito's leg was behind him. So his base was essentially gone before he even got started. I mean he had problems the whole game, but not THAT bad as we see in that gif. That happened once. Yeah he couldn't keep guys out of the backfield much but he wasn't getting dropped on his ass. That's gotta be Bito's fault. Any of the guys that played O line here know that the line coaches always yelled at you if you doubled up on a guy and got your feet close to your lineman.....for this exact reason.
Looks like McD was bullied and dropped face down more than once, but he seemed to get a little better as the game went on.
Looks like McD was bullied and dropped face down more than once, but he seemed to get a little better as the game went on.
Pretty much the case as I saw it as well.
Nick McDonald: 1st +4-11 net -8 w/ 4D-; 2nd +6-12 net -6 w/ 1D-; Game Totals: +10-23 net -13
First off... the spectacular, early blow up of McD by McCoy (S1P3) was "enhanced" by Bito's right foot tripping McD (look close at the gif, you'll see it). Not that he wasn't on his way to Hoyer's lap, if not the ground, anyway. To prove he did not need Bito's help, he got himself planted again two plays later (S1P5). For the balance of the Q1 he actually played "decent", +2-0 ball. Q2 brought back-to-back bad on S5P2&3. First an LB ripped him on his way to stuffing West for a 4 yd loss. Then he was too slow to plug a gap allowing a QB hurry.
In a nutshell I see power in McD's game if he has a little space/ time to gear up for a drive block. Under such circumstance he even managed to turn McCoy one time... a nice effort there. But if McD is beaten to the punch or is not square to his assignment, there's trouble in his immediate future. Same is true if he can set for pass protection, but if driven back at the snap, he can't halt the surge. He does generally keep his head on a decent swivel in pass protection and can pick up a stunt into his area, but lacks the quicks to move and help.
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I'm a fan of playing Hoyer.
But also, know this. He is IN NO WAY worth Flacco money. If his agent brings that up even as a joke [or a starting point]in the offseason, he's released and good riddance without a second thought. At best 3 yrs / $20M.
Yes, Manziel sits. He should. But Hoyer's value is not infinite.
The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you. "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
The Browns and Hoyers agent are both doing their jobs respectively, just like any other contract negotiations . You always ask for more than you will accept and the owners offer less than they will accept. Hence the bargaining process will eventually work out. The Browns know Hoyer wants to play for his hometown team (who wouldn't), and that's their bargaining chip. Hoyer has had more success than any QB in recent history and that's his bargaining chip. The fly in the ointment is actually Manziel.
Do the Browns go out on a limb and insinuate that Jonnny's their guy for the future to pressure Hoyer to sign for less or worse yet, force Hoyer out? Both sides could be treading on thin ice. If Hoyer's forced out and Johnny Football is a bust "You got a lotta splainin' to do Lucy !" Either way it will be interesting to see how this shakes out.
GO BROWNS !
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I'm a fan of playing Hoyer.
But also, know this. He is IN NO WAY worth Flacco money. If his agent brings that up even as a joke [or a starting point]in the offseason, he's released and good riddance without a second thought. At best 3 yrs / $20M.
Yes, Manziel sits. He should. But Hoyer's value is not infinite.
I'm a fan of playing Hoyer.
But also, know this. He is IN NO WAY worth Flacco money. If his agent brings that up even as a joke [or a starting point]in the offseason, he's released and good riddance without a second thought. At best 3 yrs / $20M.
Yes, Manziel sits. He should. But Hoyer's value is not infinite.
I don't think Flacco is worth Flacco money
Quite frankly, Hoyer is only half way through the process of showing us what he's worth. If the boi tosses it up for 3000 yards in the back 8 and lights it up, then what
(I don't think it'll happen, but just sayin' if it did - the likes of Tampa, Tenn, Buffalo may get more interested)I know, I know Stockton's argument of "Well if we don't re-sign Hoyer, and Manziel sucks in 2015 we're set back 5 years but we could just find out if Manziel is good now." Although I can make sense of it (maybe I'm a genius), I disagree you can fairly evaluate Manziel in < 8 games, and I believe he's discrediting Hoyer too much.
Anyway I think everybody's looking ahead too early. Let the season play out until we get a better idea. Agents suck, Hoyer wants to be here. We have to offer him something fair without overpaying but that's the challenge with every FA signing.
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I'm a fan of playing Hoyer.
But also, know this. He is IN NO WAY worth Flacco money. If his agent brings that up even as a joke [or a starting point]in the offseason, he's released and good riddance without a second thought. At best 3 yrs / $20M.
Yes, Manziel sits. He should. But Hoyer's value is not infinite.
I don't think Flacco is worth Flacco money
Quite frankly, Hoyer is only half way through the process of showing us what he's worth. If the boi tosses it up for 3000 yards in the back 8 and lights it up, then what
(I don't think it'll happen, but just sayin' if it did - the likes of Tampa, Tenn, Buffalo may get more interested)I know, I know Stockton's argument of "Well if we don't re-sign Hoyer, and Manziel sucks in 2015 we're set back 5 years but we could just find out if Manziel is good now." Although I can make sense of it (maybe I'm a genius), I disagree you can fairly evaluate Manziel in < 8 games, and I believe he's discrediting Hoyer too much.
Anyway I think everybody's looking ahead too early. Let the season play out until we get a better idea. Agents suck, Hoyer wants to be here. We have to offer him something fair without overpaying but that's the challenge with every FA signing.
I don't think Flacco is worth Flacco money
Quite frankly, Hoyer is only half way through the process of showing us what he's worth. If the boi tosses it up for 3000 yards in the back 8 and lights it up, then what
(I don't think it'll happen, but just sayin' if it did - the likes of Tampa, Tenn, Buffalo may get more interested)I know, I know Stockton's argument of "Well if we don't re-sign Hoyer, and Manziel sucks in 2015 we're set back 5 years but we could just find out if Manziel is good now." Although I can make sense of it (maybe I'm a genius), I disagree you can fairly evaluate Manziel in < 8 games, and I believe he's discrediting Hoyer too muc
Anyway I think everybody's looking ahead too early. Let the season play out until we get a better idea. Agents suck, Hoyer wants to be here. We have to offer him something fair without overpaying but that's the challenge with every FA signing.
I agree bb, but please refrain from quoting Stockboy, I just threw up in my mouth a little.
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