Kyle Shanahan
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The Browns' offense is now sophisticated business. A lot of misdirection, fooling
defenses, setting up plays to help other plays spring big gains. Kosar was a genius
at fooling defenses.
This offense is fun to watch - seems to be very much designed around the talent there,
and having said that, it's excellent to see that even losing Mack, they have gelled again.
Were it not for the Bitonio addition, the Browns would have a real tough time replacing Mack
and still being able to rumble.
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Yes, but that was because Mack got hurt. The offensive line just can't
change and keep on rolling the first couple of games. There's a ton
of timing, and protection calls, and coordination...
But they got it back. We'll see if the running game keeps on keeping on.
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I thought l noticed a bit of a different blocking scheme going on in this game. When l rewatched the game l really focused in on McDonald to see how the new C was doing.
I saw a number of plays where he sort of did this hockey check at the LOS and then moved up to the second level to look for a block there. Kind of like an up the gut lead blocker.
I don't remember them using Mack like that, or maybe l just wasn't paying attention. I guess my hope is they are formatting the scheme to the personnel, and they must like McDonald as a spearhead up the middle.
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Interesting, but I've seen Mack get to the second level, too.
DL,s had to pay a lot more attention to Mack.
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I think Shanahan is brilliant & worry we could lose him. More than likely he isn't yet ready to be a HC, but we're not the ones who will be shopping. That said, I agree with Steve, drop the Assistant Head Coach title on him.
To follow up on Zombo's post, these receivers aren't getting as wide open as they are simply from great moves..much of it boils down to well designed, called, & executed plays. We have a very well coached Team here & it's not just Shanahan.
Mike
To follow up on Zombo's post, these receivers aren't getting as wide open as they are simply from great moves..much of it boils down to well designed, called, & executed plays. We have a very well coached Team here & it's not just Shanahan.
Agree on giving the Asst. Coaches their due...
Regardless of scheme, receivers have to beat defenders... especially on shorter passes with pick (or rub) plays being the exception. Longer routes get into a scheme's/ play design's ability to influence Safeties and LBS.
I think the arrival of the smaller, quicker WRs (Hawk, Gabe, Moore) was perfectly timed to the arrival of the no touch, rules emphasis.
Dont get too excited yet folks, his run got stopped for 3 games and he couldnt find any production with jacksonville whatsoever, id have thought a good oc would find a way with a 0-6 team.
Even Lombardi lost a game here and there...
I thought l noticed a bit of a different blocking scheme going on in this game. When l rewatched the game l really focused in on McDonald to see how the new C was doing.
I saw a number of plays where he sort of did this hockey check at the LOS and then moved up to the second level to look for a block there. Kind of like an up the gut lead blocker.
I don't remember them using Mack like that, or maybe l just wasn't paying attention. I guess my hope is they are formatting the scheme to the personnel, and they must like McDonald as a spearhead up the middle.
Mack was the master of the "chip" at the LOS and then proceeding to the 2nd level. The difference between he and McD (or Greco during his turn at C) is that Mack could really engage a D-lineman and still get to the 2nd level in time. If Greco engaged meaningfully he was late to the 2nd. McD looks to be going "Mack-lite" at the line and moving on.
Halfway thru the Q2 of the CIN game I think we are middle zoning more and wide zoning less than we have YTD. This could be why you are seeing more of this action by the center.
McD is capable of winning 2nd level battles. 1st level? not so much...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Agree, Shanahan is a huge upgrade. I love the misdirection plays, and they always seem to work, which is amazing.
It's been a long time since we've seen a coaching staff actually make decent adjustments during the game. Hopefully threy neutralize JJ Watt next week.
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To follow up on Zombo's post, these receivers aren't getting as wide open as they are simply from great moves..much of it boils down to well designed, called, & executed plays. We have a very well coached Team here & it's not just Shanahan.
Agree on giving the Asst. Coaches their due...
Regardless of scheme, receivers have to beat defenders... especially on shorter passes with pick (or rub) plays being the exception. Longer routes get into a scheme's/ play design's ability to influence Safeties and LBS.
I think the arrival of the smaller, quicker WRs (Hawk, Gabe, Moore) was perfectly timed to the arrival of the no touch, rules emphasis.
Dont get too excited yet folks, his run got stopped for 3 games and he couldnt find any production with jacksonville whatsoever, id have thought a good oc would find a way with a 0-6 team.
Even Lombardi lost a game here and there...
I thought l noticed a bit of a different blocking scheme going on in this game. When l rewatched the game l really focused in on McDonald to see how the new C was doing.
I saw a number of plays where he sort of did this hockey check at the LOS and then moved up to the second level to look for a block there. Kind of like an up the gut lead blocker.
I don't remember them using Mack like that, or maybe l just wasn't paying attention. I guess my hope is they are formatting the scheme to the personnel, and they must like McDonald as a spearhead up the middle.
Mack was the master of the "chip" at the LOS and then proceeding to the 2nd level. The difference between he and McD (or Greco during his turn at C) is that Mack could really engage a D-lineman and still get to the 2nd level in time. If Greco engaged meaningfully he was late to the 2nd. McD looks to be going "Mack-lite" at the line and moving on.
Halfway thru the Q2 of the CIN game I think we are middle zoning more and wide zoning less than we have YTD. This could be why you are seeing more of this action by the center.
McD is capable of winning 2nd level battles. 1st level? not so much...
Mack was the master of the "chip" at the LOS and then proceeding to the 2nd level. The difference between he and McD (or Greco during his turn at C) is that Mack could really engage a D-lineman and still get to the 2nd level in time. If Greco engaged meaningfully he was late to the 2nd. McD looks to be going "Mack-lite" at the line and moving on.
Halfway thru the Q2 of the CIN game I think we are middle zoning more and wide zoning less than we have YTD. This could be why you are seeing more of this action by the center.
McD is capable of winning 2nd level battles. 1st level? not so much...
Good analysis. I gotta admit l haven't really focused a lot on Mack's play. I'm usually scrutinizing the Schwartz.
Yeah. The Schwartz.
I thought maybe the coaches thought MCD was quicker than the average bear. Raar.
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Will their first rounder play?
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Mack was the master of the "chip" at the LOS and then proceeding to the 2nd level. The difference between he and McD (or Greco during his turn at C) is that Mack could really engage a D-lineman and still get to the 2nd level in time. If Greco engaged meaningfully he was late to the 2nd. McD looks to be going "Mack-lite" at the line and moving on.
Halfway thru the Q2 of the CIN game I think we are middle zoning more and wide zoning less than we have YTD. This could be why you are seeing more of this action by the center.
McD is capable of winning 2nd level battles. 1st level? not so much...
Good analysis. I gotta admit l haven't really focused a lot on Mack's play. I'm usually scrutinizing the Schwartz.
Yeah. The Schwartz.
I thought maybe the coaches thought MCD was quicker than the average bear. Raar.
Good analysis. I gotta admit l haven't really focused a lot on Mack's play. I'm usually scrutinizing the Schwartz.
Good? Hopefully... but I am at least sure it's an "analysis".
Does seem my impression that we were middle zoning more vs. CIN might actually have been the case based upon this tidbit from Terry Pluto:
"In the 24-3 victory over the Bengals, the Browns ran the ball 52 times. According to ESPN, they ran 39 times between the guards and center -- basically, up the middle."
75% up the middle is a pretty healthy clip...
http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2014/11/cleveland_browns_rise_given_a.html
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Yes, but that was because Mack got hurt. The offensive line just can't
change and keep on rolling the first couple of games. There's a ton
of timing, and protection calls, and coordination...
But they got it back. We'll see if the running game keeps on keeping on.
Yes, but that was because Mack got hurt. The offensive line just can't
change and keep on rolling the first couple of games. There's a ton
of timing, and protection calls, and coordination...
But they got it back. We'll see if the running game keeps on keeping on.
I think it also had more to do with our new Center essentially not having played at all for 2 years, and getting thrust in as a starter his first game back. Now his game speed, endurance, recognition, and all that are starting to come back, and we are seeing the O-Line gelling again.
Assuming we either don't make the playoffs, or get bumped in the 1st round, I think Shanahan stays with the Browns. He specifically decided to search for a job without Daddy, because I think he wanted to prove that his skill set was not because of his dad. He started proving that in Houston and had a set back in Washington, because Mike Shanahan was too egotistical. I think he's showing with the Browns, again, that he's an offensive genius.
I think he takes another year of stability as OC before he moves on. There will be head coaching opportunities every year.
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Agreed. I hope he sticks around but you've got to wonder if a shot at HC isn't around the corner. BTW, I think he makes a much better OC than HC but everyone has a dream at the top job!
Agreed. I hope he sticks around but you've got to wonder if a shot at HC isn't around the corner. BTW, I think he makes a much better OC than HC but everyone has a dream at the top job!
You must be psychic if you know how KS will perform as a headcoach before he gets that job.
How about sending me the winning lottery numbers ?
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Agreed. I hope he sticks around but you've got to wonder if a shot at HC isn't around the corner. BTW, I think he makes a much better OC than HC but everyone has a dream at the top job!
You must be psychic if you know how KS will perform as a headcoach before he gets that job.
How about sending me the winning lottery numbers ?
You must be psychic if you know how KS will perform as a headcoach before he gets that job.
How about sending me the winning lottery numbers ?
Don't need to be psychic to have an opinion... You think he's ready? Make your case.
Myself? I don't see the command in young Shanny's pressers yet that would allow me to hire him as my HC. It may well be there or develop in time, but don't see it... yet.
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Here is the crew of playmakers he beat Cincy with:
Hoyer
West
Crowell
Tate
Austin
Benjamin
Gabriel
Barnridge
Dray
None of them are first round picks, Hoyer, Crow, Austin and Gabriel were udfa's , not sure about the TEs, but they weren't high picks, that's for sure.
Only Hoyer and Benjamin were on the Browns last year, so BIG TIME props to Farmer, and, of course, BIG TIME props to Pettine and our defense.
But back to the original thought ... Shanny is the best game-planner and play-caller we have had since 1999, and it ain't even close.
Just wait until we can give him Gordon, Hawkins and Cameron every week.
Zombo
Zombo said:
Here is the crew of playmakers he beat Cincy with:
Hoyer
West
Crowell
Tate
Austin
Benjamin
Gabriel
Barnridge
Dray
None of them are first round picks, Hoyer, Crow, Austin and Gabriel were udfa's , not sure about the TEs, but they weren't high picks, that's for sure.
Only Hoyer and Benjamin were on the Browns last year, so BIG TIME props to Farmer, and, of course, BIG TIME props to Pettine and our defense.
But back to the original thought ... Shanny is the best game-planner and play-caller we have had since 1999, and it ain't even close.
Just wait until we can give him Gordon, Hawkins and Cameron every week.
Zombo
Dead right. And I wonder if in any of our seasons since the 1999 comeback we could have a better use of our players.
Because I've been thinking for years now that we've been hurt by bad coaching and bad use of the personnel we had, much more than by poor talent.
We've had some very talent limited rosters in the past. But Shanahan's creativity and proper use of the players, shows that if you model your playcalling to the players you have, rather than insisting on having your players used to a system they can't play, you can pull out the best from the roster you have.
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Zombo said:
Here is the crew of playmakers he beat Cincy with:
Hoyer
West
Crowell
Tate
Austin
Benjamin
Gabriel
Barnridge
Dray
None of them are first round picks, Hoyer, Crow, Austin and Gabriel were udfa's , not sure about the TEs, but they weren't high picks, that's for sure.
Only Hoyer and Benjamin were on the Browns last year, so BIG TIME props to Farmer, and, of course, BIG TIME props to Pettine and our defense.
But back to the original thought ... Shanny is the best game-planner and play-caller we have had since 1999, and it ain't even close.
Just wait until we can give him Gordon, Hawkins and Cameron every week.
Zombo
Dead right. And I wonder if in any of our seasons since the 1999 comeback we could have a better use of our players.
Because I've been thinking for years now that we've been hurt by bad coaching and bad use of the personnel we had, much more than by poor talent.
We've had some very talent limited rosters in the past. But Shanahan's creativity and proper use of the players, shows that if you model your playcalling to the players you have, rather than insisting on having your players used to a system they can't play, you can pull out the best from the roster you have.
Dead right. And I wonder if in any of our seasons since the 1999 comeback we could have a better use of our players.
Because I've been thinking for years now that we've been hurt by bad coaching and bad use of the personnel we had, much more than by poor talent.
We've had some very talent limited rosters in the past. But Shanahan's creativity and proper use of the players, shows that if you model your playcalling to the players you have, rather than insisting on having your players used to a system they can't play, you can pull out the best from the roster you have.
Except that Z's list is half made up of players newly added to the team and the rest were among the more talented of the prior team.
I like Shanny, but a good argument can be made that players were recruited to, or have adapted to, his system. Best case is Tate... a proven zone scheme RB.
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One of the most prolific offenses in the past 10 years has been the New Orleans Saints with Sean Payton and Drew Brees. One thing I loved to hear, is that Sean Payton got together with Drew Brees to find out what his favorite plays were when he was with San Diego, and then he added those plays to the Saints' playbook. Payton does his best to run what works with who you have, and put his players in the best position to succeed based on their current skill set.
On the other hand, you have Peyton Manning lead offenses (offensive coordinators, in my mind, are just assistants to Manning). Where he demands perfection in what he wants to do with the offense. And reports say that he practices after practice with his running backs and receivers to such an extent, that they know exactly what Manning expects on any given moment.
So making players fit your system does work.
However I feel that's the exception rather than the rule. You see many, many, many coaches fail when they try to do the square peg in the round hole thing, because their ego is too big to make what works happen instead. Kosar draws a play in the dirt, throws a TD to Michael Jackson, and gets benched by Belichek. Was Kosar physically wearing down? Yeah. Was his talent diminished enough to be benched? Probably. Was Belicheck an egotistical ass because of the reason he benched Kosar in this situation? Absolutely.
I think Shanahan is of the Payton school, rather than the Peyton school, which is why we are seeing so much offensive success with a supporting cast of "who?"
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