Bills WR Hogan outplaying "superstar" Sammy Watkins
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Ok, out of curiosity and the sake of comparison, l did research.
Josh Gordon's rookie year, 2012, statistics: 805 yds, 5 tds, 12 catches of 20+ yds.
2013: 1,646 yds, 9 tds, 30 catches of 20+ yds.
Supports the school of thought that it takes rookie receivers some time to get acclimated to the NFL.
Ok, out of curiosity and the sake of comparison, l did research.
Josh Gordon's rookie year, 2012, statistics: 805 yds, 5 tds, 12 catches of 20+ yds.
2013: 1,646 yds, 9 tds, 30 catches of 20+ yds.
Supports the school of thought that it takes rookie receivers some time to get acclimated to the NFL.
and a decent QB throwing them the football.
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Ok, out of curiosity and the sake of comparison, l did research.
Josh Gordon's rookie year, 2012, statistics: 805 yds, 5 tds, 12 catches of 20+ yds.
2013: 1,646 yds, 9 tds, 30 catches of 20+ yds.
Supports the school of thought that it takes rookie receivers some time to get acclimated to the NFL.
and a decent QB throwing them the football.
and a decent QB throwing them the football.
.. and who exactly was that QB for the best part of 2013?
Also comparing Shurmur/ ShurChildressmur vs Chud/ Turner...
George C said:
Hopefully, our new owner finally hires an NFL elite coach, and fumigates the last remnants of the Ralph Wilson regime.
Until next year, best of luck to the Browns and Mike Pettine.
What... not going to visit again in a couple weeks?
Probably will be too busy culling "elite coach" resumes...
At the end of the season the Browns say, thanks for the good year, Brian, but we're gonna see what johnny's got.
I'll take any piece of that mik leaves on the table...
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yeah give some action with the browns trading hoyer or just letting him go to see 'what johnny can do'.
all bidders take your shots.
easy pickins.
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yeah give some action with the browns trading hoyer or just letting him go to see 'what johnny can do'.
all bidders take your shots.
easy pickins.
yeah give some action with the browns trading hoyer or just letting him go to see 'what johnny can do'.
all bidders take your shots.
easy pickins.
Browns re-sign Hoyer, keep Manziel but possibly move him by the deadline next year... that's my prediction. If Hoyer is a 9-3 (how much better by season end?) fluke, then we can still keep our options.
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Hogan has only outplayed Watkins, because Watkins has forced opposing D-coordinators to focus on HIM.
Ding Ding Ding...
Change title to "Bills WR Hogan outplaying Opponents' #3 CB"...
The Bills thought Sammy was their final piece... you may not pay up for a WR, but you do for your final piece.
They counted on EJ Manuel to pan out.
They did not expect to be starting their #3 RB.
And their D is damn good... even minus Kiki. Super Mario looked as dominant last nite as I have seen him in a long while.
So they took a shot on who will end up being the best WR in the draft...
How you say? "Book et"
I'd add that "history will be kind to me", but that has been ruined forever...
On a lighter note... looks like Tannehill is starting to display some of the promise that made the Fins reach for him 3 years ago.
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Oh and anyone thinking our offense wouldn't have looked much different with Hoyer having Watkins as a weapon is utterly on drugs. Face it our defense would look no different without Gilbert, "at all". But our offense would have been scoring 40 points a game with defense's having to run doubles on Watkins...which they absolutely would have had to do with Hoyer throwing him the ball. And all that offensive output would not just be from Watkins, it would be the other guys also who would be more open....it would also have made the running game even better than it already was. Look in a few years maybe Gilbert becomes the next Revis, in that case the gamble worked out. But you still don't pass on talents like Watkins. Like if anybody says the last couple of years would have looked no different if Watt was here...is also completely high. Time will tell if Gilbert was in the end the right pick, he may very make that in the end true. But "right now"...there's no debate on who's better. Yes Watkins may not impact the Bills season very much because they have a lot of other stuff going on. But for the Browns, with Hoyer needing weapons and Gordon's situation...my opinion still stands that Watkins was the better choice. And I think if we had drafted Watkins all of you would be tickled in your pink parts talking about what Gordons return will mean for what would already be one of the most prolific offense's in football. Hoyer throwing to Watkins and Gordon would be the return of the greatest show on turf.
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George C said:
This..
I still can't believe you guys passed him up, because trash him as you will, but he may have been the guy to push you over the top this year, and maybe deep into the playoffs by constantly drawing double coverage with your QB ability to get him the ball.
We have that guy ... he is better than your guy.
We are going to be in deep playoff contention when we get him back.
We have only lost 3 games ... would we be a game better in the standings if we had drafted Watkins instead of Gilbert?
Maybe. But going forward, we have a tremendous #1 receiver and we had to have another corner for our defense and Gilbert's athletic ability is insane.
Oh ... and we get the #1 draft pick of your sinking ship next year.
No one hates Watkins, he's a terrific player. But have you seen Josh Gordon? He's completely healthy and starting next week, get to know him.
Zombo
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No one knows how well he will do, but no reason the believe he's forgotten how to play. Only time will tell. But drops have never been part of his game, so why would he start dropping balls now? There's no precedent for that.
But, playing devils advocate, if he has only ONE HALF the production that he had last year, he will produce the same yards per game as Watkins. Word is that he's in shape and ready to roll and I predict he will be better than 1/2 of what he did last year.
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Meanwhile, your Bills have Watkins, and apparently, he's easy to concentrate on, giving
Hogan an easier time of it, and the Bills red zone offense is sucking, and they just lost
another game, and might blow their playoff chances soon.
Say, I'll take Gilbert. I know he won't get in trouble with the team or the law....
Watkins....not so sure.
Lose, Bills, lose !
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George C said:
No, he isn't, and that case is closed up.
And no, I haven't seen Josh Gordon play this year, and neither has anyone else.
Just how good is he? Last we heard, he hasn't made a single yard of progress this year for the Browns.
Yep, I would stop talking about Gordon until he contributes his first catch.
Just think of the advantages you may have had by shipping that guy out for a draft pick, and picking up someone who whould have set Cleveland on fire.
Last I saw him he was leading the entire NFL in receiving despite missing two games and playing with poor QBing ... so there's that.
Watkins would have set Cleveland on fire? Newsflash: Cleveland IS on fire.
We are going to make it through Gordon's suspension either 7-3 and in first place, or 6-4 and a half game back at the worst.
So, we've lost three games, and now we have a superior #1 WR, a stud cornerback of the future, and the #1 draft pick of a team sinking in the toilet.
Good luck in that red zone .. we are #8 without Watkins, and you are #32 with him.
Zombo
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George C said:
This..
I still can't believe you guys passed him up, because trash him as you will, but he may have been the guy to push you over the top this year, and maybe deep into the playoffs by constantly drawing double coverage with your QB ability to get him the ball.
We have that guy ... he is better than your guy.
We are going to be in deep playoff contention when we get him back.
We have only lost 3 games ... would we be a game better in the standings if we had drafted Watkins instead of Gilbert?
Maybe. But going forward, we have a tremendous #1 receiver and we had to have another corner for our defense and Gilbert's athletic ability is insane.
Oh ... and we get the #1 draft pick of your sinking ship next year.
No one hates Watkins, he's a terrific player. But have you seen Josh Gordon? He's completely healthy and starting next week, get to know him.
Zombo
Zombo said:
We have that guy ... he is better than your guy.
We are going to be in deep playoff contention when we get him back.
We have only lost 3 games ... would we be a game better in the standings if we had drafted Watkins instead of Gilbert?
Maybe. But going forward, we have a tremendous #1 receiver and we had to have another corner for our defense and Gilbert's athletic ability is insane.
Oh ... and we get the #1 draft pick of your sinking ship next year.
No one hates Watkins, he's a terrific player. But have you seen Josh Gordon? He's completely healthy and starting next week, get to know him.
Zombo
Just Gordon was the best receiver in the NFL last year and we won 4 games.
Buffalo is also going back to the tank, which makes that trade even better for us.
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I don't think many people are trashing him they are just saying that you could have traded up for less and nabbed Mike Evans and got similar production. You could have traded back and got Kelvin Benjamin and got better production ... Or stayed pat and actually drafted a QB to get them the ball and draft your WR later on in the 2nd, or any other position help you need.George C said:
This..
I still can't believe you guys passed him up, because trash him as you will, but he may have been the guy to push you over the top this year, and maybe deep into the playoffs by constantly drawing double coverage with your QB ability to get him the ball.
Why do you guys even show your ignorance trashing Watkins? Does it make you feel better about a thousand foot list of Browns first round busts throughout history?
You are only reinforcing the Neanderthal thinking Browns fans are known for throughout the country.
Buffalo has him, and you don't, and we are thrilled about it.
Why don't you concentrated this year and I personally hope you guys go all the way. Look at the positives that you guys have going instead of reinforcing your insecurities by being trashing what you covet.
You are solidly in control of the division.
You also have a couple of QBs to be proud of, and Buffalo..well... Has no one able to throw the ball that could hit the broad side of a barn with a handful of rice from two feet away. Parity at its best.
Instead you got Watkins who is really good for sure but hasn't (yet) separated himself from any of the other WRs drafted and we got out 2nd corner and a 10-18 pick next year to add BPA.
We've been fine without him. We'd be fine with him.
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Hogan has only outplayed Watkins, because Watkins has forced opposing D-coordinators to focus on HIM.
Agree, that trading multiple picks for a WR is stupid. The Bills win last night with better O-line play and better QB play. They could've fielded Megatron, Dez Bryant, and Sammy Watkins and still lost that game...
I knew Orton would drop back to Earth. He is NOT all-of-a-sudden going to take the NFL by storm in his 10th year. He's had plenty of opportunities to be good, but he has proven to be nothing better than a backup who can win 2-3 games in-a-pinch...
Now the Bills are stuck with no QB, a weak O-line, and no 1st round pick to improve at those spots... smh... Good news for us is they will continue to lose, thus improving our draft position next year...
Hogan has only outplayed Watkins, because Watkins has forced opposing D-coordinators to focus on HIM.
Agree, that trading multiple picks for a WR is stupid. The Bills win last night with better O-line play and better QB play. They could've fielded Megatron, Dez Bryant, and Sammy Watkins and still lost that game...
I knew Orton would drop back to Earth. He is NOT all-of-a-sudden going to take the NFL by storm in his 10th year. He's had plenty of opportunities to be good, but he has proven to be nothing better than a backup who can win 2-3 games in-a-pinch...
Now the Bills are stuck with no QB, a weak O-line, and no 1st round pick to improve at those spots... smh... Good news for us is they will continue to lose, thus improving our draft position next year...
the only person that stopped Kyle Orton from being great is Kyle Orton... He has the intelligence to have done it and an ok arm.. Alcoholism is a real killer... ask his buddy Jack Daniels.
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George C said:
I still can't believe you guys passed him up...Why are you so worried about the Browns?? You wanted him. and now you have him. Stop acting like an ass and go watch him play. Your happy with your pick and we are happy with our pick. Im not at the Bills board telling them they are dumb for making the trade, so why are you here telling us we are????
Why do you guys even show your ignorance trashing Watkins? Most of us aren't trashing him. I see a bunch of people saying he's very good, just not what OUR team needed or wanted. Does it hurt your brain to accept this?
Buffalo has him, and you don't<<<<<<<.( wow. no words to describe how childish this comment sounds) But, we are thrilled too.
You are solidly in control of the division....Yes we are. And we were 4-12 last year. So Id say our FO did one hell of a great job this off season. But we are still subjected to hearing about what he "didnt" do. He DID get a ton a great players, yet we hear about the one he didn't get. We are 6-3, yet all we hear we could be 7-2.
You also have a couple of QBs to be proud of.....Yes we do, yet you continue to yak about what we "dont" have....stop being such a soggy turd.
Watkins could be the best receiver EVER and I wouldnt care, because he's not on my team. Never was. There are lots of players we didn't draft and I can't spend my time worrying about "shoulda, coulda, woulda".....Thats what losers do.
To me, he's just another #1 receiver on another team in another division, just like the other 30 or so #1 receivers. So why would I care about him 1 way or the other?
He's the first receiver in history to cost two #1 picks. Lets hope, for the Bills sake, that he was worth it. Obviously the Browns didnt think so.
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George C said:
Well, I will revisit this in a few weeks my friend.. Then we will see if you are just as cocky after those lofty comments.
Believe it or not, the armour isn't as thick as you think..
Oh, it's gonna take a lot more than a few weeks to pan out buddy. We still have a pick to make next year and the players have barely started their careers. If you think a few weeks is all it takes to determine a players worth, then nothing you say has credibility.
THATS why you experts who "know it all" and draw conclusions based on only a few games dont get any football respect from me.
And Im not sure what I said that was "lofty" or "cocky". I basically just said he's YOUR receiver and I don't want him. Is that cocky? lofty? On the other hand, for YOU to come HERE and say:
1) We are rubbing shit in your faces??? really?..... It's you who came here to rub Sammy in our face, isnt it???
2) We are neanderthal thinking....ignorant fans???.......So who's the cocky one?
Look, I know you're only here to stir the pot and thats why you only engage in these types of discussions. But try as you might, I will never want Watkins. I dont regret passing on him. I dont regret having 2 picks next year. I dont regret waiting for Gordon. And I will never ever regret NOT paying 2 first round picks for a WR. Never ever ever.
So, come back in a few weeks if you like. For what? I dont know. Maybe Sammy will score another TD. Or maybe the Browns will lose and then you can claim is was because we didnt have Sammy. I dont know. Whats in a few weeks pray tell?
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In a few weeks is Cleveland @ Buffalo. Might be what he's talking about.
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ahhhhhhh. Could be. I dunno. But if so, yeah, one game between two teams is all it takes to determine how well their drafts went.
In truth, that game wont prove anything except which team played better that day.
Maybe he thinks if the Bills win, that means we blew it with Watkins??? OR, if the Browns win, that means we didn't????
Hell, I dont know. Just what will we learn??........................??
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I still don't get how some of you can't acknowledge what Hoyer would be doing this year and what he'll likely do next year if he had Gordon and Watkins to throw to along with possibly Cameron and slot types like Hawkins and Austin. I think Hawkins and Austin would have themselves simply unreal seasons with Gordon and Watkins out there. Plus Watkins would be our insurance for the next time Gordon gets popped. I get it we didn't draft him and frankly I was done with this discussion after my thread got locked. But you guys keep wanting to troll the Watkins discussion and make the Buffalo fan here feel like we already got way over on the Bills. We didn't get over on them, the didn't get over on us. If we take their pick and land some AAA talent with it, than maybe..i dunno. Does it matter? And why are we treating Bills fans like Steeler fgts that come round here? Srsly....obviously I want Buffalo to shit the bed this season so that pick is as high as possible, but I'm not gonna be an asshole to a Bills fan who really wasn't being a dick until people here were being a dick to him. Just fucking relax. For the immediate future we absolutely passed on production "right now" by not taking Watkins...that is beyond debate. If Gilbert becomes a Sherman/Revis type than we made out on it the deal. Now can we just drop it?
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George C said:
... (the AFCN) is as weak as it gets.
Once upon a time our Buffalo visitors were considered to be among the most intelligent, well mannered to drop by...
That seems like a long time ago now...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
George C said:
... (the AFCN) is as weak as it gets.
Once upon a time our Buffalo visitors were considered to be among the most intelligent, well mannered to drop by...
That seems like a long time ago now...
Once upon a time our Buffalo visitors were considered to be among the most intelligent, well mannered to drop by...That seems like a long time ago now...
It looks like he said that, I almost responded too, but that was actually a Browns fan, stuck inside his quote, saying that the AFC East is weak. Which it always is.
Z
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