Hoyer's contract
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"" yet everyone is calling for Hoyers head on a platter as if he was the reason for the loss""
Really? Everyone? Where?
I dont see that at all. Most of the comments I see say the whole team sucked. Of course, the regular hoyer haters will seize the moment. But I dont see anyone other than the usual crowd attacking Hoyer over Shanahan, the D or anyone else.
I do see people saying he's not worth Franchise money, but thats not asking for his head. Thats just assigning a dollar value to it.
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Turn the question around, Steve...
Which 2014 starters would you not trade Hoyer for?
I would not trade Hoyer for the following QBs who have started in 2014:
Orton, Manuel, G. Smith, Vick, Dalton, Fitzpatrick, Mallet, Locker, Whitehurst, Mettenberger, Schaub, Romo, (Foles), Sanchez, RG3, Cousins, McCoy, Cutler, Bridgewater, Cassell, Ryan, McCown, Glennon, Bradford, Austin, Hill, Kaepernick
Put Foles in parenthesis as I might go for him...
That list is absurd.
You're either kidding (which I doubt), or you're proving that you're such a Hoyer fan that you can not be trusted to have an honest opinion.
That list is absurd.
That list is absurd.
You're either kidding (which I doubt), or you're proving that you're such a Hoyer fan that you can not be trusted to have an honest opinion.
That list is absurd.
Very persuasive argument... as usual.
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Turn the question around, Steve...
Which 2014 starters would you not trade Hoyer for?
I would not trade Hoyer for the following QBs who have started in 2014:
Orton, Manuel, G. Smith, Vick, Dalton, Fitzpatrick, Mallet, Locker, Whitehurst, Mettenberger, Schaub, Romo, (Foles), Sanchez, RG3, Cousins, McCoy, Cutler, Bridgewater, Cassell, Ryan, McCown, Glennon, Bradford, Austin, Hill, Kaepernick
Put Foles in parenthesis as I might go for him...
That list is absurd.
You're either kidding (which I doubt), or you're proving that you're such a Hoyer fan that you can not be trusted to have an honest opinion.
That list is absurd.
That list is absurd.
You're either kidding (which I doubt), or you're proving that you're such a Hoyer fan that you can not be trusted to have an honest opinion.
That list is absurd.
It's not absurd. I disagree with a few of those, like I'd maybe take Ryan and Kaepernick off that list myself. Maybe Romo too if he didn't have the back issues. But he's not off the mark here.
Tour's point hits home. There are a hell of a lot of 2014 NFL starters lower on the list than Hoyer.
(Tour, you also forgot to add Weeden to that list.)
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Turn the question around, Steve...
Which 2014 starters would you not trade Hoyer for?
I would not trade Hoyer for the following QBs who have started in 2014:
Orton, Manuel, G. Smith, Vick, Dalton, Fitzpatrick, Mallet, Locker, Whitehurst, Mettenberger, Schaub, Romo, (Foles), Sanchez, RG3, Cousins, McCoy, Cutler, Bridgewater, Cassell, Ryan, McCown, Glennon, Bradford, Austin, Hill, Kaepernick
Put Foles in parenthesis as I might go for him...
That list is absurd.
You're either kidding (which I doubt), or you're proving that you're such a Hoyer fan that you can not be trusted to have an honest opinion.
That list is absurd.
That list is absurd.
You're either kidding (which I doubt), or you're proving that you're such a Hoyer fan that you can not be trusted to have an honest opinion.
That list is absurd.
How so? I think its an accurate list. I might make an argument against Dalton and Cutler being added, however both have manic highs and lows and are prone to turnovers.
Beyond that, what's so "absurd"
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That list is absurd.
You're either kidding (which I doubt), or you're proving that you're such a Hoyer fan that you can not be trusted to have an honest opinion.
That list is absurd.
How so? I think its an accurate list. I might make an argument against Dalton and Cutler being added, however both have manic highs and lows and are prone to turnovers.
Beyond that, what's so "absurd"
How so? I think its an accurate list. I might make an argument against Dalton and Cutler being added, however both have manic highs and lows and are prone to turnovers.
Beyond that, what's so "absurd"
Whats absurd is if the Browns called the Cowboys, Bears, 49ers, Bengals or Falcons and asked to trade starters straight up there wouldn't even be time for a "No" before the phone hung up. Hoyers talent isn't even in the same ballpark as those QBs. He's not on the same radar.
Vikings and Redskins and Eagles would at least give you the dignity of saying "No" before hanging up.
Bills would think about it and then realize that Orton has outplayed Hoyer this year and then say "No"
Texans and Titans would say "Maybe, we need a placeholder"
Thats why its absurd. To even suggest for one second that Hoyer is an upgrade or on the same level of a Romo or a Ryan or even Cutler for all his picks, is absurd.
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How so? I think its an accurate list. I might make an argument against Dalton and Cutler being added, however both have manic highs and lows and are prone to turnovers.
Beyond that, what's so "absurd"
Whats absurd is if the Browns called the Cowboys, Bears, 49ers, Bengals or Falcons and asked to trade starters straight up there wouldn't even be time for a "No" before the phone hung up. Hoyers talent isn't even in the same ballpark as those QBs. He's not on the same radar.
Vikings and Redskins and Eagles would at least give you the dignity of saying "No" before hanging up.
Bills would think about it and then realize that Orton has outplayed Hoyer this year and then say "No"
Texans and Titans would say "Maybe, we need a placeholder"
Thats why its absurd. To even suggest for one second that Hoyer is an upgrade or on the same level of a Romo or a Ryan or even Cutler for all his picks, is absurd.
Whats absurd is if the Browns called the Cowboys, Bears, 49ers, Bengals or Falcons and asked to trade starters straight up there wouldn't even be time for a "No" before the phone hung up. Hoyers talent isn't even in the same ballpark as those QBs. He's not on the same radar.
Vikings and Redskins and Eagles would at least give you the dignity of saying "No" before hanging up.
Bills would think about it and then realize that Orton has outplayed Hoyer this year and then say "No"
Texans and Titans would say "Maybe, we need a placeholder"
Thats why its absurd. To even suggest for one second that Hoyer is an upgrade or on the same level of a Romo or a Ryan or even Cutler for all his picks, is absurd.
Romo not healthy is no where near an upgrade. I'd take Matty Ice. He's a very good QB. Cutler isn't that special, he has 2 pro bowl receivers that are able
to haul in his innaccurate passes.
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Turn the question around, Steve...
Which 2014 starters would you not trade Hoyer for?
I would not trade Hoyer for the following QBs who have started in 2014:
Orton, Manuel, G. Smith, Vick, Dalton, Fitzpatrick, Mallet, Locker, Whitehurst, Mettenberger, Schaub, Romo, (Foles), Sanchez, RG3, Cousins, McCoy, Cutler, Bridgewater, Cassell, Ryan, McCown, Glennon, Bradford, Austin, Hill, Kaepernick
Put Foles in parenthesis as I might go for him...
Actually for most of those guys I think it would probably be a wash if the team was performing the way it was a while ago.Turn the question around, Steve...
Which 2014 starters would you not trade Hoyer for?
I would not trade Hoyer for the following QBs who have started in 2014:
Orton, Manuel, G. Smith, Vick, Dalton, Fitzpatrick, Mallet, Locker, Whitehurst, Mettenberger, Schaub, Romo, (Foles), Sanchez, RG3, Cousins, McCoy, Cutler, Bridgewater, Cassell, Ryan, McCown, Glennon, Bradford, Austin, Hill, Kaepernick
Put Foles in parenthesis as I might go for him...
(that is putting most of the pressure on the running game and defense rather than winning or losing on the quarterback's shoulders)
My main reason for being a Hoyer fan is that he is one of us, a Northeast Ohio Cleveland Browns fan. And he beat the Steelers. I don't see a great amount of talent ability or football acumen that makes him stand out. Sorry.
If you with the general manager and had to release one or the other would it be Brian or Johnny?
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
How so? I think its an accurate list. I might make an argument against Dalton and Cutler being added, however both have manic highs and lows and are prone to turnovers.
Beyond that, what's so "absurd"
Whats absurd is if the Browns called the Cowboys, Bears, 49ers, Bengals or Falcons and asked to trade starters straight up there wouldn't even be time for a "No" before the phone hung up. Hoyers talent isn't even in the same ballpark as those QBs. He's not on the same radar.
Vikings and Redskins and Eagles would at least give you the dignity of saying "No" before hanging up.
Bills would think about it and then realize that Orton has outplayed Hoyer this year and then say "No"
Texans and Titans would say "Maybe, we need a placeholder"
Thats why its absurd. To even suggest for one second that Hoyer is an upgrade or on the same level of a Romo or a Ryan or even Cutler for all his picks, is absurd.
Whats absurd is if the Browns called the Cowboys, Bears, 49ers, Bengals or Falcons and asked to trade starters straight up there wouldn't even be time for a "No" before the phone hung up. Hoyers talent isn't even in the same ballpark as those QBs. He's not on the same radar.
Vikings and Redskins and Eagles would at least give you the dignity of saying "No" before hanging up.
Bills would think about it and then realize that Orton has outplayed Hoyer this year and then say "No"
Texans and Titans would say "Maybe, we need a placeholder"
Thats why its absurd. To even suggest for one second that Hoyer is an upgrade or on the same level of a Romo or a Ryan or even Cutler for all his picks, is absurd.
Orton is 28th 6 behind Hoyer.
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Whats absurd is if the Browns called the Cowboys, Bears, 49ers, Bengals or Falcons and asked to trade starters straight up there wouldn't even be time for a "No" before the phone hung up. Hoyers talent isn't even in the same ballpark as those QBs. He's not on the same radar.
Vikings and Redskins and Eagles would at least give you the dignity of saying "No" before hanging up.
Bills would think about it and then realize that Orton has outplayed Hoyer this year and then say "No"
Texans and Titans would say "Maybe, we need a placeholder"
Thats why its absurd. To even suggest for one second that Hoyer is an upgrade or on the same level of a Romo or a Ryan or even Cutler for all his picks, is absurd.
Orton is 28th 6 behind Hoyer.
Orton is 28th 6 behind Hoyer.
Kyle Orton has a higher completion % (by almost 9 full points), higher YPG, Better TD to INT ratio and has a rating that is 7 points higher.
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How so? I think its an accurate list. I might make an argument against Dalton and Cutler being added, however both have manic highs and lows and are prone to turnovers.
Beyond that, what's so "absurd"
Whats absurd is if the Browns called the Cowboys, Bears, 49ers, Bengals or Falcons and asked to trade starters straight up there wouldn't even be time for a "No" before the phone hung up. Hoyers talent isn't even in the same ballpark as those QBs. He's not on the same radar.
Vikings and Redskins and Eagles would at least give you the dignity of saying "No" before hanging up.
Bills would think about it and then realize that Orton has outplayed Hoyer this year and then say "No"
Texans and Titans would say "Maybe, we need a placeholder"
Thats why its absurd. To even suggest for one second that Hoyer is an upgrade or on the same level of a Romo or a Ryan or even Cutler for all his picks, is absurd.
Whats absurd is if the Browns called the Cowboys, Bears, 49ers, Bengals or Falcons and asked to trade starters straight up there wouldn't even be time for a "No" before the phone hung up. Hoyers talent isn't even in the same ballpark as those QBs. He's not on the same radar.
Vikings and Redskins and Eagles would at least give you the dignity of saying "No" before hanging up.
Bills would think about it and then realize that Orton has outplayed Hoyer this year and then say "No"
Texans and Titans would say "Maybe, we need a placeholder"
Thats why its absurd. To even suggest for one second that Hoyer is an upgrade or on the same level of a Romo or a Ryan or even Cutler for all his picks, is absurd.
Many more words... and not a single iota of expansion upon your original reply. You really should stick with your Cliff's Notes replies. It would save you a great deal of what I am sure you consider to be your valuable time.
On the other hand you did completely twist my premise... so there's that. The premise was that I would not call them.
Jerrah's favorite piece of fool's gold has taken the 'Boys nowhere in his career and is now one good hit away from a wheel chair...
What has Ryan done since the Falcons added their "final piece" in 2011?
Cutler is Jeff George II... If you can't see that, then you probably are prone to drinking sand in a desert.
(Tour, you also forgot to add Weeden to that list.)
lol.. As was the case with the vast majority of his Browns' starts (and StockBoy's posts), I guess it was just "forgettable".
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Actually for most of those guys I think it would probably be a wash if the team was performing the way it was a while ago.Turn the question around, Steve...
Which 2014 starters would you not trade Hoyer for?
I would not trade Hoyer for the following QBs who have started in 2014:
Orton, Manuel, G. Smith, Vick, Dalton, Fitzpatrick, Mallet, Locker, Whitehurst, Mettenberger, Schaub, Romo, (Foles), Sanchez, RG3, Cousins, McCoy, Cutler, Bridgewater, Cassell, Ryan, McCown, Glennon, Bradford, Austin, Hill, Kaepernick
Put Foles in parenthesis as I might go for him...
(that is putting most of the pressure on the running game and defense rather than winning or losing on the quarterback's shoulders)
My main reason for being a Hoyer fan is that he is one of us, a Northeast Ohio Cleveland Browns fan. And he beat the Steelers. I don't see a great amount of talent ability or football acumen that makes him stand out. Sorry.
If you with the general manager and had to release one or the other would it be Brian or Johnny?
WSS
My main reason for being a Hoyer fan is that he is one of us, a Northeast Ohio Cleveland Browns fan. And he beat the Steelers. I don't see a great amount of talent ability or football acumen that makes him stand out. Sorry.
If you with the general manager and had to release one or the other would it be Brian or Johnny?
No reason to be "sorry" for your opinion or your basis for being a Hoyer fan.
The sound you hear is StockBoy kicking himself for never asking the GM question you posed? It's a doozy and one that I simply cannot answer. I simply do not know if JM will ever have an NFL head. Were I the GM in reality, then I might have a feeling, but still would not "know".
Before StockBoy breaks his keyboard rushing to post that my incomplete information is exactly what he has been arguing ad nauseum to supply, let me add this. I am no more ready to risk this season to gain that information than I was two-weeks ago when SB last graced us with his posts.
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It's completely pointless to debate about who's 20th or 22nd best, isnt it?.......This is basically the same team with Orton or Hoyer or any of those other guys, because none of them are Manning, Brady, Brees or Luck.
The way I see it is there are really only about 10 no brainer QB's in the whole league.....then there's everybody else. A long line of 20-30 QB's that are basically unproven or haven't found the right situation....some have flashed and some haven't...some find the right system or team and some dont......
right now, Hoyers one who has landed in the right situation and it's worked out well for him and the Browns.....No more, no less.
So, Orton is 26th and Hoyer is 22nd....or Visa versa......Who cares??
Only a hand full of teams are lucky enough to get the opportunity to pick a Luck, Elway or Manning....Happens only once every 10 years or so....and some even get lucky with a Brady, Montana or Romo type .....The rest(re:most) have to find a way to win without a premier QB who can carry the whole ship....with these teams, it's more about the team, than the QB. Thats where were at.
The hypothetical question about "who" would I release right now?(BH or JFF) is hard to answer, because I haven't seen #2 play yet. The Browns see him everyday though.....we have no idea what they think, but they have an idea for sure...... and they keep saying he is the future(smokescreen? dunno).....and they dont say that about BH....Ever......so, if I HAD to pick one.....Id probably swing blindly for the fences and keep JFF......just praying he's one of those top 10 QB's....otherwise, if he's just another one of the 20 average players, it wont really matter much
With that, I am assuming jff looks good in practice.....and is still progressing nicely.....and is still the ultimate final plan for the team. And that is the reason Farmer and Pettine are so reluctant to publicly declare Hoyer the man, while they are happy to say the love JFF, dont regret the pick, etc.
I know stockton wants him now. Others not yet. I dont think the coaches should mess with team chemistry and such, but there will be an opportunity somewhere and they will seize it. Im certain(100%) we will see him eventually. Personally, I feel it was the right time yesterday, right after that second hit BH took from Cushing. Wasn;t happy(at all) to see BH taking lumps like that, but did feel an excited twinge when they said #2 was putting on his helmet....
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Browns are not good enough to win the Super Bowl this year and Hoyer isn't the future.
Once those two things are clear you are doing nothing but spinning your tires in the mud by not playing Manziel.
As I've been saying all season, you're wasting time. You're wasting time gaining experience for a player who may or may not be your future, and you're wasting time with a player who you know isn't the future. What sense does that make?
The minute Manziel is the starter then he has to start a process of learning on the field. We will have to take a step back when that happens. Why not do it during the year you KNOW you're not Super Bowl contenders and why not sacrifice the guy who you KNOW isn't a Franchise QB?
Like I've said, low self esteem. You're so happy not to be the worst team in the NFL anymore, that you no longer care about reaching for that next level. You are more than happy with winning 8-9 games for the next 3 years and never making the playoffs. Its like being content with a 30k a year job and never looking to advance all while saying "Well I used to flat broke so this is awesome". Its a loser attitude.
If you're not trying to build for a Super Bowl then what are you really doing? Not shit. -
Browns are not good enough to win the Super Bowl this year and Hoyer isn't the future.
Once those two things are clear you are doing nothing but spinning your tires in the mud by not playing Manziel.
As I've been saying all season, you're wasting time. You're wasting time gaining experience for a player who may or may not be your future, and you're wasting time with a player who you know isn't the future. What sense does that make?
The minute Manziel is the starter then he has to start a process of learning on the field. We will have to take a step back when that happens. Why not do it during the year you KNOW you're not Super Bowl contenders and why not sacrifice the guy who you KNOW isn't a Franchise QB?
Like I've said, low self esteem. You're so happy not to be the worst team in the NFL anymore, that you no longer care about reaching for that next level. You are more than happy with winning 8-9 games for the next 3 years and never making the playoffs. Its like being content with a 30k a year job and never looking to advance all while saying "Well I used to flat broke so this is awesome". Its a loser attitude.
If you're not trying to build for a Super Bowl then what are you really doing? Not shit.Browns are not good enough to win the Super Bowl this year and Hoyer isn't the future.
Once those two things are clear you are doing nothing but spinning your tires in the mud by not playing Manziel.
As I've been saying all season, you're wasting time. You're wasting time gaining experience for a player who may or may not be your future, and you're wasting time with a player who you know isn't the future. What sense does that make?
The minute Manziel is the starter then he has to start a process of learning on the field. We will have to take a step back when that happens. Why not do it during the year you KNOW you're not Super Bowl contenders and why not sacrifice the guy who you KNOW isn't a Franchise QB?
Like I've said, low self esteem. You're so happy not to be the worst team in the NFL anymore, that you no longer care about reaching for that next level. You are more than happy with winning 8-9 games for the next 3 years and never making the playoffs. Its like being content with a 30k a year job and never looking to advance all while saying "Well I used to flat broke so this is awesome". Its a loser attitude.
If you're not trying to build for a Super Bowl then what are you really doing? Not shit.
So drafting a new QB every year and praying that he turns out to be the next Rodgers, Manning, or Brady is considered "building for a Super Bowl"? QB is the most important position but there are 21 other starters GMs have to think about. Thank God you have no control over the team. We would have 4 win seasons from here until eternity waiting for our "perfect" QB.
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Browns are not good enough to win the Super Bowl this year and Hoyer isn't the future.
Once those two things are clear you are doing nothing but spinning your tires in the mud by not playing Manziel.
As I've been saying all season, you're wasting time. You're wasting time gaining experience for a player who may or may not be your future, and you're wasting time with a player who you know isn't the future. What sense does that make?
The minute Manziel is the starter then he has to start a process of learning on the field. We will have to take a step back when that happens. Why not do it during the year you KNOW you're not Super Bowl contenders and why not sacrifice the guy who you KNOW isn't a Franchise QB?
Like I've said, low self esteem. You're so happy not to be the worst team in the NFL anymore, that you no longer care about reaching for that next level. You are more than happy with winning 8-9 games for the next 3 years and never making the playoffs. Its like being content with a 30k a year job and never looking to advance all while saying "Well I used to flat broke so this is awesome". Its a loser attitude.
If you're not trying to build for a Super Bowl then what are you really doing? Not shit.Browns are not good enough to win the Super Bowl this year and Hoyer isn't the future.
Many more words... and not a single iota of expansion upon your original reply. You really should stick with your Cliff's Notes replies. It would save you a great deal of what I am sure you consider to be your valuable time.
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Browns are not good enough to win the Super Bowl this year and Hoyer isn't the future.
Once those two things are clear you are doing nothing but spinning your tires in the mud by not playing Manziel.
As I've been saying all season, you're wasting time. You're wasting time gaining experience for a player who may or may not be your future, and you're wasting time with a player who you know isn't the future. What sense does that make?
The minute Manziel is the starter then he has to start a process of learning on the field. We will have to take a step back when that happens. Why not do it during the year you KNOW you're not Super Bowl contenders and why not sacrifice the guy who you KNOW isn't a Franchise QB?
Like I've said, low self esteem. You're so happy not to be the worst team in the NFL anymore, that you no longer care about reaching for that next level. You are more than happy with winning 8-9 games for the next 3 years and never making the playoffs. Its like being content with a 30k a year job and never looking to advance all while saying "Well I used to flat broke so this is awesome". Its a loser attitude.
If you're not trying to build for a Super Bowl then what are you really doing? Not shit.Browns are not good enough to win the Super Bowl this year and Hoyer isn't the future.
Once those two things are clear you are doing nothing but spinning your tires in the mud by not playing Manziel.
As I've been saying all season, you're wasting time. You're wasting time gaining experience for a player who may or may not be your future, and you're wasting time with a player who you know isn't the future. What sense does that make?
The minute Manziel is the starter then he has to start a process of learning on the field. We will have to take a step back when that happens. Why not do it during the year you KNOW you're not Super Bowl contenders and why not sacrifice the guy who you KNOW isn't a Franchise QB?
Aside from his ability to randomly be fortunate enough to have defenders go full Retard, what serious advantage does JFF hold over Hoyer? Please... aside from his legs, the most useless component of an NFL QB, what is it?
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Browns are not good enough to win the Super Bowl this year and Hoyer isn't the future.
Once those two things are clear you are doing nothing but spinning your tires in the mud by not playing Manziel.
As I've been saying all season, you're wasting time. You're wasting time gaining experience for a player who may or may not be your future, and you're wasting time with a player who you know isn't the future. What sense does that make?
The minute Manziel is the starter then he has to start a process of learning on the field. We will have to take a step back when that happens. Why not do it during the year you KNOW you're not Super Bowl contenders and why not sacrifice the guy who you KNOW isn't a Franchise QB?
Aside from his ability to randomly be fortunate enough to have defenders go full Retard, what serious advantage does JFF hold over Hoyer? Please... aside from his legs, the most useless component of an NFL QB, what is it?
Frankly we don't know yet. We know that none of Hoyers previous employers thought he was starting material. We know that no team thought he was in the upper echelon of the draft.Aside from his ability to randomly be fortunate enough to have defenders go full Retard, what serious advantage does JFF hold over Hoyer? Please... aside from his legs, the most useless component of an NFL QB, what is it?
We know that some of his statistics have been among the lowest in the league.
As most people have agreed to previously Johnny football could quite possibly be an elite quarterback. Or a monumental bust.
I'm in brian corner but for the anti Jonny crowd don't you guys wish Hoyer was looking a lot better? And wouldn't you be more concerned if he was from Texas and Johnny was from Cleveland?
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
Frankly we don't know yet. We know that none of Hoyers previous employers thought he was starting material. We know that no team thought he was in the upper echelon of the draft.Aside from his ability to randomly be fortunate enough to have defenders go full Retard, what serious advantage does JFF hold over Hoyer? Please... aside from his legs, the most useless component of an NFL QB, what is it?
We know that some of his statistics have been among the lowest in the league.
As most people have agreed to previously Johnny football could quite possibly be an elite quarterback. Or a monumental bust.
I'm in brian corner but for the anti Jonny crowd don't you guys wish Hoyer was looking a lot better? And wouldn't you be more concerned if he was from Texas and Johnny was from Cleveland?
WSS
Frankly we don't know yet. We know that none of Hoyers previous employers thought he was starting material. We know that no team thought he was in the upper echelon of the draft.
We know that some of his statistics have been among the lowest in the league.
As most people have agreed to previously Johnny football could quite possibly be an elite quarterback. Or a monumental bust.
I'm in brian corner but for the anti Jonny crowd don't you guys wish Hoyer was looking a lot better? And wouldn't you be more concerned if he was from Texas and Johnny was from Cleveland?
WSS
If that were the case I'd bet 90 percent in here would have been calling for JFF from the get go.
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