This is what I don't understand. (Steelers)
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Lest we forget, rightly or wrongly teams respect the Roethlisberger-Brown combo a lot more than Hoyer-Hawkins.
I definetly don't like admitting this. Rapist > Hoyer easily. Brown > Anytging we've had this year. Bell > anything we've had this year. Steeler D is suspect just like ours, but their O is significantly better with two elite players in the skill and another one close (us zero unless Gordon comes back in full form).Lest we forget, rightly or wrongly teams respect the Roethlisberger-Brown combo a lot more than Hoyer-Hawkins.
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I just checked the first and second round draft picks in the last seven years for the Browns and Steelers. Each chose four OL positions in that span of time:
Browns
1st Rd 2007 - Joe Thomas T
1st Rd 2009 - Alex Mack C
2nd Rd 2012 - Mitchell Schwartz T
2nd Rd 2014 - Joel Bitonio G
Steelers
1st Rd 2010 - Maurkice Pouncey C
2nd Rd 2011 - Marcus Gilbert T
1st Rd 2012 - David DeCastro G
2nd Rd 2012 - Mike Adams T
We are missing our Pro Bowl Center. Steelers four picks here are a bit younger overall, but not rookies either. Titans are 2-8 team this year, Texans are 5-5. Bell is good. Not that our youngest higher pick West isn't good (3rd Rd 2014 - Terrance West RB vs 2nd Rd 2013 - Le'Veon Bell RB) but Bell is performing better and also I would assume getting more snaps unlike our three-headed committee/rotation going on right now.
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Before last nights game, we were EXACTLY even with the Steelers in rushing. Exactly.
The main difference was Bell has all their carries and we split ours 3 ways. So, yeah, he's got better #'s. But his "team" doesn't and thats what matters.
After 10 games, the Browns had 1100 yards rushing and the Steelers had 1100 yards rushing.
So, to me, this is another thread overreactiing to ONE game and saying they look like HOF's while we suck.
We were #1. Then our best lineman got hurt. Then the rushing #'s dropped. And NOW, instead of understanding a basic injury, we look back to the draft to find the answer?
We didn't draft bad.... Mack just got hurt......Go break Pounceys leg and see how that works for Bell.
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HA!
ex-brown kam wimbley almost broke ben's back last night. roethlisberger must take 3-4 days to even feel a little better the way he gets hit EVERY game. yes, it's a testament to his size and strength that he can extend plays but talk about needing a walker after retiring........
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You guys can get pissy with me all you want but the Steelers will continue to play at a average level until Big Ben retires. He's a top ten level QB even today and defenses must account for that. It's the same reason the Patriots can plug in some random RB who goes and scores 4 td's. Put in a guy like Bell and it's going to be that much better running the ball. Any team that controls the game on the ground has a great chance to win.
With that being said, they are still a vulnerable team which is shown in their losses this year. Defense is aging for sure and Ben is seemingly taking a lot of hits. It's gonna be a tight race for the North this year that's for sure.
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You guys can get pissy with me all you want but the Steelers will continue to play at a average level until Big Ben retires. He's a top ten level QB even today and defenses must account for that. It's the same reason the Patriots can plug in some random RB who goes and scores 4 td's. Put in a guy like Bell and it's going to be that much better running the ball. Any team that controls the game on the ground has a great chance to win.
With that being said, they are still a vulnerable team which is shown in their losses this year. Defense is aging for sure and Ben is seemingly taking a lot of hits. It's gonna be a tight race for the North this year that's for sure.
You guys can get pissy with me all you want but the Steelers will continue to play at a average level until Big Ben retires. He's a top ten level QB even today and defenses must account for that. It's the same reason the Patriots can plug in some random RB who goes and scores 4 td's. Put in a guy like Bell and it's going to be that much better running the ball. Any team that controls the game on the ground has a great chance to win.
With that being said, they are still a vulnerable team which is shown in their losses this year. Defense is aging for sure and Ben is seemingly taking a lot of hits. It's gonna be a tight race for the North this year that's for sure.
don't you mean above average?
we can make an argument for 1/2 the teams in the league with 'average' play.
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You guys can get pissy with me all you want but the Steelers will continue to play at a average level until Big Ben retires. He's a top ten level QB even today and defenses must account for that. It's the same reason the Patriots can plug in some random RB who goes and scores 4 td's. Put in a guy like Bell and it's going to be that much better running the ball. Any team that controls the game on the ground has a great chance to win.
With that being said, they are still a vulnerable team which is shown in their losses this year. Defense is aging for sure and Ben is seemingly taking a lot of hits. It's gonna be a tight race for the North this year that's for sure.
don't you mean above average?
we can make an argument for 1/2 the teams in the league with 'average' play.
don't you mean above average?
we can make an argument for 1/2 the teams in the league with 'average' play.
think he means 'at minimum' average - whoever else they have, Big Ben is a threat to take over a game, like Brady, Rodgers, Manning etc. You can't just stuff the box and hope for the best unlike against Hoyer.
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Pgh is a difficult team to figure. Tennessee was all over BR, I don't know how many times he was sacked and/or hit but it seemed like every play for a while. Pgh's offensive line looked like a junior college at times, then did near flawless run blocking. Tomlin will run Bell into the ground, mark my words. Three years from now he will be somewhere using a walker. Tomlin used up Fast Willie Parker in a hurry.
If Pgh had even an average defense to go along with all that offense they would be a handful. They don't, so they are fairly beatable, especially with a number of D starters out.
This is such a weird division this year, this late and anyone could still win it.
Pgh is a difficult team to figure. Tennessee was all over BR, I don't know how many times he was sacked and/or hit but it seemed like every play for a while. Pgh's offensive line looked like a junior college at times, then did near flawless run blocking. Tomlin will run Bell into the ground, mark my words. Three years from now he will be somewhere using a walker. Tomlin used up Fast Willie Parker in a hurry.
If Pgh had even an average defense to go along with all that offense they would be a handful. They don't, so they are fairly beatable, especially with a number of D starters out.
This is such a weird division this year, this late and anyone could still win it.
Shazier, jones, McClendon, troy are all supposed to be back after the bye week. I also believe Taylor may be ready to go as well. I don't know that they fix the defense but its def gotta help. We really need to draft a top flight corner this year. The steelers wanted fuller this past draft and he went before we could pick so they drafted shazier.
AKA SNATCH98 or Rorbotron. The boards glorious admins decided to get cute and change my name to "homotron" Classy group of people. (Lost a bet with Columbus king and got banned for a month) -
don't you mean above average?
we can make an argument for 1/2 the teams in the league with 'average' play.
think he means 'at minimum' average - whoever else they have, Big Ben is a threat to take over a game, like Brady, Rodgers, Manning etc. You can't just stuff the box and hope for the best unlike against Hoyer.
think he means 'at minimum' average - whoever else they have, Big Ben is a threat to take over a game, like Brady, Rodgers, Manning etc. You can't just stuff the box and hope for the best unlike against Hoyer.
Right, that's what I'm saying. With a guy like Big Ben a down few season are still looking at 8-8 or so because he's good enough to take over games against weaker competition. I doubt we'll see a 4-12 campaign until he calls it quits.
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4 top forty picks playing right now?
all i can say if that's true is that we haven't addressed the depth of the OL like we should have. also i would dare to say how long has this mangled band-aid group been playing together? just because they looked good against cincy does not mean they were etched in stone to be a monster OL.
it's all on shanny from here on out to be able to decipher the other team's D and put our OL in the best position to run block and protect. and sometimes that's not enough. when the other team has your number on D that day you're pretty much done unless you have some type of passing game juggernaut.
this is my favorite example of how OLs and DLs affect QB play and the W-L record..... eli manning is a super bowl winning QB correct? when given an offensive line, running game and a stout defense they were able to go to the big game and win. without all of that he looks like brandon weeden on a bad day.
4 top forty picks playing right now?
all i can say if that's true is that we haven't addressed the depth of the OL like we should have. also i would dare to say how long has this mangled band-aid group been playing together? just because they looked good against cincy does not mean they were etched in stone to be a monster OL.
it's all on shanny from here on out to be able to decipher the other team's D and put our OL in the best position to run block and protect. and sometimes that's not enough. when the other team has your number on D that day you're pretty much done unless you have some type of passing game juggernaut.
this is my favorite example of how OLs and DLs affect QB play and the W-L record..... eli manning is a super bowl winning QB correct? when given an offensive line, running game and a stout defense they were able to go to the big game and win. without all of that he looks like brandon weeden on a bad day.
True dat.
I think Eli had 5 picks this past Sunday.
Looked like hot shit.
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They fucking have 1-2 decent offensive lineman and make La'Veon Bell look like a fucking hall of famer.
We have 4 fucking top 40 picks on our o-line and can't run for dick. It fucking pisses me off.
How do these assholes find these draft picks?
They fucking have 1-2 decent offensive lineman and make La'Veon Bell look like a fucking hall of famer.
Their 5th guy is a solid athelete hidden at OG.
Both of the #5's we've trotted out since Mack went down are well below average. The first was so bad you can barely hide him on the bench let alone OG. The second is our center... probably the worst place to try to hide a player.
Before last nights game, we were EXACTLY even with the Steelers in rushing. Exactly.
The main difference was Bell has all their carries and we split ours 3 ways. So, yeah, he's got better #'s. But his "team" doesn't and thats what matters.
After 10 games, the Browns had 1100 yards rushing and the Steelers had 1100 yards rushing.
So, to me, this is another thread overreactiing to ONE game and saying they look like HOF's while we suck.
We were #1. Then our best lineman got hurt. Then the rushing #'s dropped. And NOW, instead of understanding a basic injury, we look back to the draft to find the answer?
We didn't draft bad.... Mack just got hurt......Go break Pounceys leg and see how that works for Bell.
There you go... thinking rationally again...
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Pgh is a difficult team to figure. Tennessee was all over BR, I don't know how many times he was sacked and/or hit but it seemed like every play for a while. Pgh's offensive line looked like a junior college at times, then did near flawless run blocking. Tomlin will run Bell into the ground, mark my words. Three years from now he will be somewhere using a walker. Tomlin used up Fast Willie Parker in a hurry.
If Pgh had even an average defense to go along with all that offense they would be a handful. They don't, so they are fairly beatable, especially with a number of D starters out.
This is such a weird division this year, this late and anyone could still win it.
Shazier, jones, McClendon, troy are all supposed to be back after the bye week. I also believe Taylor may be ready to go as well. I don't know that they fix the defense but its def gotta help. We really need to draft a top flight corner this year. The steelers wanted fuller this past draft and he went before we could pick so they drafted shazier.
Shazier, jones, McClendon, troy are all supposed to be back after the bye week. I also believe Taylor may be ready to go as well. I don't know that they fix the defense but its def gotta help. We really need to draft a top flight corner this year. The steelers wanted fuller this past draft and he went before we could pick so they drafted shazier.
They are getting their players back on defense when the Browns players are dropping like flies. There is certainly a luck factor going for you.
The Browns now have 8 players on IR, with up to two more possibly being added, and 5-6 of them would be starters.. Only John Hughes is designated for return....in week 17
The Steelers have 3 players on IR, Jarvis Jones who is due to come back and two nobody backups. Is Jones date to return the same as Hughes?
I am not sure how they determine that (is it that they have to be out X amount of games?)
But, you know, it is really Cincinnati's main problem, not ours.
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Shazier, jones, McClendon, troy are all supposed to be back after the bye week. I also believe Taylor may be ready to go as well. I don't know that they fix the defense but its def gotta help. We really need to draft a top flight corner this year. The steelers wanted fuller this past draft and he went before we could pick so they drafted shazier.
They are getting their players back on defense when the Browns players are dropping like flies. There is certainly a luck factor going for you.
The Browns now have 8 players on IR, with up to two more possibly being added, and 5-6 of them would be starters.. Only John Hughes is designated for return....in week 17
The Steelers have 3 players on IR, Jarvis Jones who is due to come back and two nobody backups. Is Jones date to return the same as Hughes?
I am not sure how they determine that (is it that they have to be out X amount of games?)
But, you know, it is really Cincinnati's main problem, not ours.
They are getting their players back on defense when the Browns players are dropping like flies. There is certainly a luck factor going for you.
The Browns now have 8 players on IR, with up to two more possibly being added, and 5-6 of them would be starters.. Only John Hughes is designated for return....in week 17
The Steelers have 3 players on IR, Jarvis Jones who is due to come back and two nobody backups. Is Jones date to return the same as Hughes?
I am not sure how they determine that (is it that they have to be out X amount of games?)
But, you know, it is really Cincinnati's main problem, not ours.
Out 8 games (i think) from the date of being put on IR. Can return to practise after 6.
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Who cares? We split this year, and could've easily won both games. The ONLY thing about the Steelers roster that is better than the Browns is Roethlisberger (on a good day) is far greater than anything we put out there at QB, but when he's off he's no better than any QB out there. Other than that, we have the talent advantage and it showed in the last 6 quarters we played against them (yea, I just did that... I completely eliminated the first half of the first game because it fits my argument) ... I don't care what Vag says...
55 - 13 in the last 6 quarters (58 - 40 in 2 games) ... ADVANTAGE CLEVELAND...
And, I'd welcome a playoff rematch...
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Who cares? We split this year, and could've easily won both games. The ONLY thing about the Steelers roster that is better than the Browns is Roethlisberger (on a good day) is far greater than anything we put out there at QB, but when he's off he's no better than any QB out there. Other than that, we have the talent advantage and it showed in the last 6 quarters we played against them (yea, I just did that... I completely eliminated the first half of the first game because it fits my argument) ... I don't care what Vag says...
55 - 13 in the last 6 quarters (58 - 40 in 2 games) ... ADVANTAGE CLEVELAND...
And, I'd welcome a playoff rematch...
Who cares? We split this year, and could've easily won both games. The ONLY thing about the Steelers roster that is better than the Browns is Roethlisberger (on a good day) is far greater than anything we put out there at QB, but when he's off he's no better than any QB out there. Other than that, we have the talent advantage and it showed in the last 6 quarters we played against them (yea, I just did that... I completely eliminated the first half of the first game because it fits my argument) ... I don't care what Vag says...
55 - 13 in the last 6 quarters (58 - 40 in 2 games) ... ADVANTAGE CLEVELAND...
And, I'd welcome a playoff rematch...
You have better corners and the defensive line is up for debate. You lose everywhere else. (Mack out, you also lose at offensive line otherwise it's more even)
AKA SNATCH98 or Rorbotron. The boards glorious admins decided to get cute and change my name to "homotron" Classy group of people. (Lost a bet with Columbus king and got banned for a month) -
Who cares? We split this year, and could've easily won both games. The ONLY thing about the Steelers roster that is better than the Browns is Roethlisberger (on a good day) is far greater than anything we put out there at QB, but when he's off he's no better than any QB out there. Other than that, we have the talent advantage and it showed in the last 6 quarters we played against them (yea, I just did that... I completely eliminated the first half of the first game because it fits my argument) ... I don't care what Vag says...
55 - 13 in the last 6 quarters (58 - 40 in 2 games) ... ADVANTAGE CLEVELAND...
And, I'd welcome a playoff rematch...
You have better corners and the defensive line is up for debate. You lose everywhere else. (Mack out, you also lose at offensive line otherwise it's more even)
You have better corners and the defensive line is up for debate. You lose everywhere else. (Mack out, you also lose at offensive line otherwise it's more even)
Bitonio is hands down a much better guard than DeCastro.. Thomas is the best LT in the game... Shut your mouth before you cram your foot back in it..Mack is far and away better than pouncy... Armonty Bryant and Phil Taylor are our best Dlineman.. I'll take them both over anything you got on your shit Dline.
Nickers...."There are no old running QB's in the NFL "~Sam Rutigliano~ -
Who cares? We split this year, and could've easily won both games. The ONLY thing about the Steelers roster that is better than the Browns is Roethlisberger (on a good day) is far greater than anything we put out there at QB, but when he's off he's no better than any QB out there. Other than that, we have the talent advantage and it showed in the last 6 quarters we played against them (yea, I just did that... I completely eliminated the first half of the first game because it fits my argument) ... I don't care what Vag says...
55 - 13 in the last 6 quarters (58 - 40 in 2 games) ... ADVANTAGE CLEVELAND...
And, I'd welcome a playoff rematch...
You have better corners and the defensive line is up for debate. You lose everywhere else. (Mack out, you also lose at offensive line otherwise it's more even)
You have better corners and the defensive line is up for debate. You lose everywhere else. (Mack out, you also lose at offensive line otherwise it's more even)
The defensive line is certainly up for debate now with 3 of our players out. It wasn't before.
Our offensive line is more talented, when intact. Right now though the continuity is certainly out of whack with Mack out. Steelers interior C/OGs are clicking well now that they are back healthy. They have the continuity going.
With Gordon back, and possibly Cameron back the WR/TE corps will be better....if they can revert to their old form.
RB? Well, Tate and Blount now cancel each other out because both are head cases.....Tate released, Blount should be if Steelers management has any guts. Now the Browns have all rookies at RB. Good potential, but yes, Bell is certainly more proven than them.
Browns DB is better all around. I don't think the Steelers hold the edge at any single position.
LB? Two starters for the Browns being out gives Steelers edge now probably.
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You have better corners and the defensive line is up for debate. You lose everywhere else. (Mack out, you also lose at offensive line otherwise it's more even)
Bitonio is hands down a much better guard than DeCastro.. Thomas is the best LT in the game... Shut your mouth before you cram your foot back in it..Mack is far and away better than pouncy... Armonty Bryant and Phil Taylor are our best Dlineman.. I'll take them both over anything you got on your shit Dline.
Bitonio is hands down a much better guard than DeCastro.. Thomas is the best LT in the game... Shut your mouth before you cram your foot back in it..Mack is far and away better than pouncy... Armonty Bryant and Phil Taylor are our best Dlineman.. I'll take them both over anything you got on your shit Dline.
Our OTs are better. No matter how much people bitch about The Schwartz I would still take him over the Steelers tackles.
I do think the combination of Bitonio, Mack, and Greco are better than DeCastro, Pouncey, and Foster. But we don't have Mack, we have Nick McDonald for the rest of the year, so the obvious edge on the interior line goes the Steeler way.
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Here is how the LB corps now stacks up Browns vs. Steelers:
LOLB Jason Worilds vs. Paul Kruger. Kruger better imo
LILB Ryan Shazier (now coming back?) vs. Christian Kirksey Shazier has been hurt, but even before that Kirksey by no means took a back seat in his performance.
RILB Lawrence Timmons vs. Craig Robertson Timmons has edge (would not be the case over Dansby now hurt)
ROLB Arthur Moats vs. Barkevious Mingo. (filling in for Sheard) I guess, honestly I will need an independent opinion on Moats, who I don't know much about. He is a fill in for Jarvis Jones, no? How does he match up to Mingo. If it were Mingo vs. JJ I would say what you have are two thus far underachieving high first round picks. Injuries are a factor in that for both of them.
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Before last nights game, we were EXACTLY even with the Steelers in rushing. Exactly.
The main difference was Bell has all their carries and we split ours 3 ways. So, yeah, he's got better #'s. But his "team" doesn't and thats what matters.
After 10 games, the Browns had 1100 yards rushing and the Steelers had 1100 yards rushing.
So, to me, this is another thread overreactiing to ONE game and saying they look like HOF's while we suck.
We were #1. Then our best lineman got hurt. Then the rushing #'s dropped. And NOW, instead of understanding a basic injury, we look back to the draft to find the answer?
We didn't draft bad.... Mack just got hurt......Go break Pounceys leg and see how that works for Bell.
Before last nights game, we were EXACTLY even with the Steelers in rushing. Exactly.
The main difference was Bell has all their carries and we split ours 3 ways. So, yeah, he's got better #'s. But his "team" doesn't and thats what matters.
After 10 games, the Browns had 1100 yards rushing and the Steelers had 1100 yards rushing.
So, to me, this is another thread overreactiing to ONE game and saying they look like HOF's while we suck.
We were #1. Then our best lineman got hurt. Then the rushing #'s dropped. And NOW, instead of understanding a basic injury, we look back to the draft to find the answer?
We didn't draft bad.... Mack just got hurt......Go break Pounceys leg and see how that works for Bell.
I don't know if you are directing any of this at me, but if so, I was only looking at the starting OLines from a draft perspective (since that's how the topic was started). My conclusion was that the big difference was Mack going down. Did I take too long getting to the point?
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