All of us Hoyer backers should admit one thing...
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For the record I root for Buffalo if the Browns arent playing them. And I'd like to have a higher draft pick but even more I'd hope we pick a diamond in the rough with the one we get. That's better than rooting for Michael fucking Vick.
WSS
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True. And on top of that no powerhouse team drafts a quarterback in the first round. You complicate things by expecting the rookie to make chicken salad out of chicken shit. I'm glad we didn't do that. I am hoping the team improves enough that the addition of an above average quarterback (assuming that's what Johnny is or that brian steps up) will take us to the playoffs and beyond. The least we can hope for is the team be good enough to be respectable with a mediocre quarterback which is more than we've had.
WSS
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George C said:
You guys are doing right by Johnny Manziel, trust me...
All you have to do is look around. The Jets have ruined the careers of many QBs along the way. They have utterly destroyed Geno, and Sanchez.
Aaron Rodgers sat for three years, and bingo, a properly developed QB turning into an unquestionable super star..
The Pats are doing the same thing with Jimmy Garappolo. Sitting and learning behind the ultimate master in Brady.
Buffalo? We ruin QBs here...
Thanks George. This makes sense. I could not stand JF. But the longer he sits learns and gets physically stronger before being thrown into a situation way to big for him is slowly putting a grin on my face. Finally the BROWNS have reached for a Franchise qb and are doing the old school grooming that almost no rookie receives anymore. If he's as great and Destin as some fanboys wanna believe then him sitting for 1 little year is going to put himlight years ahead of all qbs in his class
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George C said:
Are you living under a rock?
Reaching for EJ as a starter with NO back up plan? Big problem with that here in Buffalo. They signed the glass princess Kolb as their QB last year?
Nobody has a problem with getting Watkins. He is a generational WR playing without a QB, but not grooming him correctly? No other QB drafted this year with a huge ? over EJ, because they didn't want to break his confidence??
Hiring Marrone on the cheap as per Ralph Wilson?
Wasting a 2nd on a bust tackle with cement feet in Koundjio?
We came away with Alonso last year, but that was another single hit year.
Money is no object with the Pegulas. They spend it like they are going to the electric chair. Mega wealthy in oil and gas rights and property development. They can buy and sell Donald Trump's net worth at will. Expect an actual coach and GM here next year to straighten out this sess pool. Most are guessing the return of Bill Polian with the possibility of luring a big name back out of the booth to coach.
You weren't addressing me were you?
WSS
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Ok
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the browns QB situation is STILL up in the air with these performances of hoyer vs. these scrub teams. one week he plays like montana the next like geno smith. BUT what are the browns supposed to do when they are winning? change QBs to see what they got in the kid?
this is the problem with the hoyer vs. manziel thing: what happens if we let hoyer walk in free agency and they find out that manziel is not ready next year, again? so they let someone walk who was still better than the person who is suppose to take his place? and they start the kid to his detriment and he is not capable of playing in the NFL. so here comes a year of regressing and not winning as many games as this year and the FO all of a sudden is in QB mode for the draft in 2016.
it would be foolish to let hoyer walk. he knows the browns offense, has chemistry with it's players and is a winner no matter how bad he has played. just think what he could do next year when people return healthy, with a revamped and seasoned OL, a new influx of weapons on offense (if needed) and a defense that can stop the run.
man you ride this horse 'til it drops.
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oh and to the JF fan who stated in one of these threads about the QBs coming out this year aren't as good as manziel....
i say bullshit.
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George if you were given you a choice would you take Johnny or Brian?
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
George C said:
Are you living under a rock?
Reaching for EJ as a starter with NO back up plan? Big problem with that here in Buffalo. They signed the glass princess Kolb as their QB last year?
Nobody has a problem with getting Watkins. He is a generational WR playing without a QB, but not grooming him correctly? No other QB drafted this year with a huge ? over EJ, because they didn't want to break his confidence??
Hiring Marrone on the cheap as per Ralph Wilson?
Wasting a 2nd on a bust tackle with cement feet in Koundjio?
We came away with Alonso last year, but that was another single hit year.
Money is no object with the Pegulas. They spend it like they are going to the electric chair. Mega wealthy in oil and gas rights and property development. They can buy and sell Donald Trump's net worth at will. Expect an actual coach and GM here next year to straighten out this sess pool. Most are guessing the return of Bill Polian with the possibility of luring a big name back out of the booth to coach.
Ok.....so brilliant on the one pick and lame on the rest.....thats fair. It happens to us all.
Not sure your new owner can buy a good team though. There is a cap, so unlike baseball, it's a much more level playing field. Of course if the old owner wouldn't even pay that, then I can see where a new owner could help that along. But, it looks like the Bills payroll is right up there with everyone else, so it's not like they aren't paying anyone.....but they sure are paying Mario Williams....18.8 mil cap hit this year.... more than Peyton Manning even...looks like the new GM will need to do some contract restructuring as well....
We need to do some similar stuff with a few of our player contracts too....Ruben is first.....
And we need to make smart spending decisions with our FA's, like Hoyer - Cameron - Gipson - Sheard - etc and not overpay.
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George if you were given you a choice would you take Johnny or Brian?
WSS
George C said:
I think the nation sees what's going on in Cleveland, even if some in Cleveland do not..
Hoyer is simply giving some valuable rookie "seat time" to Manziel before Pettine finally starts him. Beyond that, Hoyers first injury will be his last snap in a Browns uniform..
Hoyer's only kidding himself if he thinks his future is in Cleveland. The hook is at the ready, and ready to be used by all of Clevelands fans and coaches when that first ugly & costly loss comes. It's a matter of "when", and not "if".
Everyone from Jimmy the crook to the homeless guy who told advised the owner on how to draft.
BTW, we will take him in Buffalo.
Anyone interested in a blind and inaccurate EJ or a cowardly Kyle?
I would personally send them both over for a $100.00 gift certificate at Melt..
One, I don't think you have a clue what is going on in Cleveland.
Two, given the choice as your starter against us this coming Sunday, who do you take? Hoyer or Manziel?
George if you were given you a choice would you take Johnny or Brian?
WSS
Great minds... etc., etc.
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George C said:
I was addressing Mud fly.
You need to learn to use the quote button. It is quite easy, you just go "click".
Ordinarily I would jump on fans from opposing teams who do or say dumb things. But I am in amnesty mode for Buffalo Bills fans. You have been dumped on enough already.
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George C said:
The Browns aren't good enough right now, but the pieces are falling into place. I wouldn't be pissed if you miss the playoff this year because you aren't going anywhere yet.. Next year, the Browns will be a hard core contender. One more draft to shore up some weak spots, and some solid QB play and I see a shot at the Championship game, and maybe winning it if the cards fall right.. Lots of talent, but you guys need some LB play and more pass rush from 4 down linemen..and Johnny Manziel to pan out.
Not a lot of think that we need JFF to pan out. We do need Hoyer to be more accurate.
The Bills are in a similar situation. We have parts you don't have, and vise versa. Great D play, solid pass rush and run D, solid on backs, receivers, center and tackles, except a QB and two guards and a real TE.
Are you saying that these are areas in which the Browns are deficient? Or where the Bills are in good shape?
Not a good place to be weak, but correctable if the cards fall right and we can trade for a decent QB.
Good Quarterbacks are very rarely "tradeable" commodities. You might find a good one in free agency, but a trade is unlikely. Or, you might not find a good one in FA. Here is the list of guys that will be available:
http://www.spotrac.com/free-agents/nfl/quarterback/
Anyone on there spark your interest?
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Hoyer is a game manager that can't afford to make mistakes. He has a putrid completion percentage and picks up the brunt of his yardage on deep throws were guys are wide open. He is not the answer for the browns at qb. The Browns won in spite of him today AND it did help that mike smith might be mentally Retarded.
Hoyer is a game manager that can't afford to make mistakes. He has a putrid completion percentage and picks up the brunt of his yardage on deep throws were guys are wide open. He is not the answer for the browns at qb. The Browns won in spite of him today AND it did help that mike smith might be mentally Retarded.
Probably not the long term answer. But he'd be a heck of a great answer for the Browns as a very solid long term backup. Don't know if he's going to be willing to accept that role. What's kills him is he plain isn't accurate enough when he's really got to air the ball out. Had guys open deep several times against the Falcons, and missed badly on those throws.
And you are right- the majority of the bombs he's connected on the receivers were so wide open they were able to make adjustments to poorly thrown passes.
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i agree. marrone reminds me of chud the dud. nothing there but a decent coordinator.
loved the manuel pick. reminds me of freeman a little big strong mobile with a great arm put into a situation where they couldn't thrive.
got a neighbor who is a die hard bills fan and he keeps praising manziel. i keep telling him "sammy for johnny!"
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i agree. marrone reminds me of chud the dud. nothing there but a decent coordinator.
loved the manuel pick. reminds me of freeman a little big strong mobile with a great arm put into a situation where they couldn't thrive.
got a neighbor who is a die hard bills fan and he keeps praising manziel. i keep telling him "sammy for johnny!"
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Hoyer is a game manager that can't afford to make mistakes. He has a putrid completion percentage and picks up the brunt of his yardage on deep throws were guys are wide open. He is not the answer for the browns at qb. The Browns won in spite of him today AND it did help that mike smith might be mentally Retarded.
Hoyer is a game manager that can't afford to make mistakes. He has a putrid completion percentage and picks up the brunt of his yardage on deep throws were guys are wide open. He is not the answer for the browns at qb. The Browns won in spite of him today AND it did help that mike smith might be mentally Retarded.
He made plenty of mistakes and still won at the end
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I have thought this was an ideal situation for JF AND the Browns. Gets to play behind a QB who is just good enough to hang in most games while JF learns the NFL game. Long term for Hoyer is relatively short and his flaws are pretty obvious. He's playing as well as he will ever play. JF gets to improve his game against decent pros in practice before he gets thrown in to the lions den. I have a relatively quiet confidence that in the long run, he is the future for the Browns. I know how good he can be. You don't break 50 y.o. records in the SEC West by being some putz just running around for giggles. And the best thing for the Browns is they have obviously stockpiled some really good players to attain this year's record despite some drawbacks at QB. Crowell is one of the best rookies in this year's entire class and West is not far behid. Those guys are fun to watch. That run for the TD by Crowell was a thing of beauty.
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I have thought this was an ideal situation for JF AND the Browns. Gets to play behind a QB who is just good enough to hang in most games while JF learns the NFL game. Long term for Hoyer is relatively short and his flaws are pretty obvious. He's playing as well as he will ever play. JF gets to improve his game against decent pros in practice before he gets thrown in to the lions den. I have a relatively quiet confidence that in the long run, he is the future for the Browns. I know how good he can be. You don't break 50 y.o. records in the SEC West by being some putz just running around for giggles. And the best thing for the Browns is they have obviously stockpiled some really good players to attain this year's record despite some drawbacks at QB. Crowell is one of the best rookies in this year's entire class and West is not far behid. Those guys are fun to watch. That run for the TD by Crowell was a thing of beauty.
I have thought this was an ideal situation for JF AND the Browns. Gets to play behind a QB who is just good enough to hang in most games while JF learns the NFL game. Long term for Hoyer is relatively short and his flaws are pretty obvious. He's playing as well as he will ever play. JF gets to improve his game against decent pros in practice before he gets thrown in to the lions den. I have a relatively quiet confidence that in the long run, he is the future for the Browns. I know how good he can be. You don't break 50 y.o. records in the SEC West by being some putz just running around for giggles. And the best thing for the Browns is they have obviously stockpiled some really good players to attain this year's record despite some drawbacks at QB. Crowell is one of the best rookies in this year's entire class and West is not far behid. Those guys are fun to watch. That run for the TD by Crowell was a thing of beauty.
I agree JF has a higher chance of success the longer he sits. Hoyer's future as a brown still remains foggy IMO though.
Sometimes I really love what he does - throw it to 3 or 4 receivers in a 55 second game winning drive (I don't remember if it was 3 or 4, I know he hit Austin, Gordon, Barnidge for sure) - he's hit multiple targets on all 4 of his game winning drives this year. He almost always makes the right read and doesn't lock on to a target pre-snap (although that appeared to happen with Gordon at least once - but he threw it in a spot only gordon had a chance of it). Then sometimes you go crazy as he underthrows off the back foot or overthrows a short slant route...His 2nd and 3rd INT were bad choices, first one was a weak throw. The fact of the matter is, Hoyer hasn't thrown dumb interceptions like that really all year - so seeing him do it on Sunday is not what we've come to expect from him (although for some reason people here expect it even though he hasn't done it?).
I think Hoyer still has a good chance to be the browns starter next year... based on the last 5 games and potential playoff outing of course...
The fact is, I would take Hoyer over several QBs who have or are currently starting in 2014 (Despite his past 6 games stats wah wah):
Matt Ryan, Dalton, Cutler, Mallet, Fitzpatrick, Orton, Stanton, Mallet, Manuel, Vick, G. Smith, Tannehill (Avg. QB, RedZone TO machine), Mettenberger, RG3, McCown....holding judgement on the rookies besides Mettenberger (Bortles/Carr/Bridgewater)
The guys can stuff the stats, the truth is he isn't doing all that bad.
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Hoyer is what he is. I really hope though we don't go back to playing Browns Prevent Offense. Too often I've watched FG after FG from "loser mentality" play calling. Shanahan has a career backup throwing it down field, Hoyer's 9th in yards, and if Hoyer's managing the game well a potent offense when you apply the running attack. If Hoyer can increase his accuracy and decision making this team could surprise some people.
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It would be nice to have had an explanation for what happened on those two final INT's. Did Gordon have something to do with it or was it all on Hoyer? Maybe that jump ball in the endzone was something they had talked about..who knows. That final one though, has to go to the sideline unless the route was something so completley different than what Gordon ran.
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