No ‘magic bullet’ in Obama housing relief plan
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NO hoorta I dont think the Government can fix all economic problems than the free market can. In fact beyond competent oversight and regulation ( to safegaurd system collapse) I think the free market is very effective by competition of the strongest to correct weakness in business.
THIS particular problem of special interest and the flawed republican laissez faire ideology unfortunately can not fix itself because they dismantled the oversight and system rules.
Yes there are irresponsible borrowers and lenders, however the backend climate (meaning Wall street and the insurance industries) created an envirement that unless the banks adopted over aggressive product lending they would not survive against the rest of the field.
This was intentional... The problem they did not foresee was 9-11 and Bush's cronies having a Iraq agenda before Bush even was elected. The energy and war sector along with commodities traders pushed for what would benefit them. The end result was the system could not handle BOTH problems simaltaneously and ended up multiplying our economic collapse.
This was not just the deregulation of insurance and banking it was the combo of the Iraq/Afghanistan war/occupation costs and oil/energy deregulation combined with instability of the main energy producing region due to our leaders choice to destroy two nations and then rebuild them somehow.
This problem is now so large that the ONLY answer is to invest in our own system by borrowing against ourselves to find a stop gap measure to stop/slow down foreclosures which is part of the major downgrading of property value and banking credit flow problem.
I do believe healthy competition in a free market enterprise is the BEST way for industry to regulation efficiency and product superiority. The greed factor in business needs to be checked by regulation and competent oversight for the overall good of the system. You can not tell business who have no morality or care for the greater good of the system to regulate themselves.... IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN and all it takes is a few of them to tear everything down.
Diehard that fine we can agree to disagree, be assured my opinion of how to handle those criminals is probably as aggressive as yours.
Personally I think the way Meir handled the Munich olympic kidnapping and subsequent deaths is the way we should have and should handle future similar terror tactic issues from these criminal organizations.
She authorized the Mossad to track down and kill Black september members ANYWHERE. They did not go to war they assasinated anyone associated with that group and the operation.
I have a healthy respect for the Israeli's in general, I dont agree with how they treat the Palestinions nor their expansionist policies but their Military and Mossad tactics and training backed up by a pretty pragmatic government.
Currently it is my opinion that is EXACTLY what we were doing in Iraq... That was responsible for the drop in violence in Iraq not the surge. I think the surge was PR to cover for what brutal assasination tactics we are using on Iraq counter militia heads. Sadr wont come back to Iraq and is hiding in Iran for a reason.
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Clearly politics is ruining this nation. Too many people think you are either with your or against you. I find it amazing that people can object to deficit spending to help prevent a great depression just because it's a democrat's plan, but were perfectly fine with deficit spending to pay for a needless war in somewhat good economic times because it was a republican's plan.
It's possible the reverse could be said, but then again I don't see how anyone could think spending money rebuilding our cumbling infastructure and sharing up the financial sector could be worse than empire building.
:neutral_face: -
lotta back-peddling in here.....
so can we all agree that doing even the wrong thing is better than doing nothing?
lotta back-peddling in here.....
so can we all agree that doing even the wrong thing is better than doing nothing?
Nope.
And it's pretty bad when even Obammy's acolytes can't come up with a better defense of this bill.
And make no mistake; the market has plummeted since Dems took the houses but especially since Obammy has been the frontrunner and winner.
We (Americans) have spent so much negative energy toward a few CEOs who make money when thier businesses fail (not unlike athletes and actors) that we'e cut off our noses to spite our collective face.
WSS
WSS[/b]
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
Clearly politics is ruining this nation. Too many people think you are either with your or against you. I find it amazing that people can object to deficit spending to help prevent a great depression just because it's a democrat's plan, but were perfectly fine with deficit spending to pay for a needless war in somewhat good economic times because it was a republican's plan.
It's possible the reverse could be said, but then again I don't see how anyone could think spending money rebuilding our cumbling infastructure and sharing up the financial sector could be worse than empire building.
I find it amazing that people can object to deficit spending to help prevent a great depression just because it's a democrat's plan, but were perfectly fine with deficit spending to pay for a needless war in somewhat good economic times because it was a republican's plan.
I'd bet my right arm that even the most uneducated, gun-totin' red-stater had a more profound reason for supporting said war than simply "because it's a Republican's plan."
I find it amazing that you could make such an uninformed generalization in an effort to challenge the reason people are opposed to deficit spending.
Breaking News: People are opposed to wasteful spending, not deficit spending.
We've already ponied up the money, yet the newly created position of CPO (Chief Performance Officer) has yet to be filled (after the 1st selection had a bit of tax trouble
.) Total waste. Toss in a newly created "board of high ranking officials" (whatever the fcuk that means) that the CPO is supposed to sit on top of, and you've got a recipe for a family size portion of clusterfcuk.The state assemblies have yet to convene to determine exactly how to spend and monitor this money, and you think it's a matter of Repub. vs. Democrat? Mystifying.
sev has eternally trumpeted the notion that "REPUBLICAN LAISSEZ FAIRE PRINCIPLES" have been the sole responsibility of our current situation. It's possible, but I disagree. However, the stimulus plan of "DEMOCRATIC REWARD TO THE PERSONS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DISASTER" isn't the most effective way of regulate, repair, and reconstruct. Especially when everyone knows the regulate part is just expansion of another inefficient government agency, or creation of an entirely new inefficient government agency. Both are nothing more than dog & pony show's anyway.
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Obama's new low for liberalism means he plans for us to move to a new Socialism by him which is supposed to be a new improved Socialist State never tried before.
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I find it incredulous that lib Dems in Congress wailed about the terrible deficit, but now that
Obama is in there...
"duh... what deficit?"
"who cares, big deal"
"what, me worry?"
"don't worry, be happy"
So, in conclusion, being honest with consistent VALUES went out the window long ago...
They had to reshuffle their priorities to hedge against heading into another depression.
Maybe this is crazy talk, and I'm just thinking out loud here, but maybe prioritizing spending money on our OWN country to hedge against depression is a TAD different than wildly spending billions of dollars in Iraq to find Dubya Em Deez.
They had to reshuffle their priorities to hedge against heading into another depression.
Maybe this is crazy talk, and I'm just thinking out loud here, but maybe prioritizing spending money on our OWN country to hedge against depression is a TAD different than wildly spending billions of dollars in Iraq to find Dubya Em Deez.
Well put. Very well put.
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lotta back-peddling in here.....
so can we all agree that doing even the wrong thing is better than doing nothing?
Nope.
And it's pretty bad when even Obammy's acolytes can't come up with a better defense of this bill.
And make no mistake; the market has plummeted since Dems took the houses but especially since Obammy has been the frontrunner and winner.
We (Americans) have spent so much negative energy toward a few CEOs who make money when thier businesses fail (not unlike athletes and actors) that we'e cut off our noses to spite our collective face.
WSS
WSS[/b]
Nope.
And it's pretty bad when even Obammy's acolytes can't come up with a better defense of this bill.
And make no mistake; the market has plummeted since Dems took the houses but especially since Obammy has been the frontrunner and winner.
We (Americans) have spent so much negative energy toward a few CEOs who make money when thier businesses fail (not unlike athletes and actors) that we'e cut off our noses to spite our collective face.
WSS
WSS[/b]
LOL, I really find it quite compelling that people forget what happened before Obama took office.
I wonder if there should be a study on how siding with a particular party will in fact have people subconsciously remember what they want to. That would be very interesting. Dude, please research before sounding like an idiot again. December 5th, the Dow was at 7,550 and at that point had the greatest volume decrease in history. Yes before Obama was in office.
Please look at our country objectively people, you are going to ruin it.
Luck is Tim Couch. Big, Dumb Goofy, slow thinking QB - Ghoolie, 2-28-12 -
Nope.
And it's pretty bad when even Obammy's acolytes can't come up with a better defense of this bill.
And make no mistake; the market has plummeted since Dems took the houses but especially since Obammy has been the frontrunner and winner.
We (Americans) have spent so much negative energy toward a few CEOs who make money when thier businesses fail (not unlike athletes and actors) that we'e cut off our noses to spite our collective face.
WSS
WSS[/b]
LOL, I really find it quite compelling that people forget what happened before Obama took office.
I wonder if there should be a study on how siding with a particular party will in fact have people subconsciously remember what they want to. That would be very interesting. Dude, please research before sounding like an idiot again. December 5th, the Dow was at 7,550 and at that point had the greatest volume decrease in history. Yes before Obama was in office.
Please look at our country objectively people, you are going to ruin it.
LOL, I really find it quite compelling that people forget what happened before Obama took office.
I wonder if there should be a study on how siding with a particular party will in fact have people subconsciously remember what they want to. That would be very interesting. Dude, please research before sounding like an idiot again. December 5th, the Dow was at 7,550 and at that point had the greatest volume decrease in history. Yes before Obama was in office.
Please look at our country objectively people, you are going to ruin it.
I believe Steve said "front-runner & winner" not in office. So he would be correct.
Reading comprehension: look into it.
Sure, luck means a lot in football. Not having a good quarterback is bad luck. -Don Shula -
LOL, I really find it quite compelling that people forget what happened before Obama took office.
I wonder if there should be a study on how siding with a particular party will in fact have people subconsciously remember what they want to. That would be very interesting. Dude, please research before sounding like an idiot again. December 5th, the Dow was at 7,550 and at that point had the greatest volume decrease in history. Yes before Obama was in office.
Please look at our country objectively people, you are going to ruin it.
I believe Steve said "front-runner & winner" not in office. So he would be correct.
Reading comprehension: look into it.
I believe Steve said "front-runner & winner" not in office. So he would be correct.
Reading comprehension: look into it.
It is a fine thing indeed.
Not to mention the fact that Dems have been yapping all along about the deficit projection under Bill Clinton.
I'd point out that Bill had a Republican house and senate to keep him on track.
Also that we did not elect Clinton or any other moderate DLC Dem this time.
And the deficit hawks no longer have a place at the table.
(nor do the bipartisan gang or the accountability faction or the personal responsibility, uh, herd)
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
LOL, I really find it quite compelling that people forget what happened before Obama took office.
I wonder if there should be a study on how siding with a particular party will in fact have people subconsciously remember what they want to. That would be very interesting. Dude, please research before sounding like an idiot again. December 5th, the Dow was at 7,550 and at that point had the greatest volume decrease in history. Yes before Obama was in office.
Please look at our country objectively people, you are going to ruin it.
I believe Steve said "front-runner & winner" not in office. So he would be correct.
Reading comprehension: look into it.
I believe Steve said "front-runner & winner" not in office. So he would be correct.
Reading comprehension: look into it.
Awwww, your noble efforts to stick up for your boyfriend is lovable and cute. LOL, "front-runner and winner" applies to that he WON, right? Wouldn't winner suggest he WON the election? And front-runner of what? When he was the "front-runner" he had no control over what was going on during Bush's watch. LOL, so cute.
The point is that the crisis started well before even Bush was in office. When Clinton was in office, the Republicans lost a few seats in the House and gained a few in the Senate, but overall retained control of the Congress. Deregulation of home loans started then, not when "Obammy was the front-runner and winner". We can all agree the deregulation of home loans started this mess. It's everyone's fault Republican, Democrats, Presidents, and Congress.
Congress is now giving a hand out to the people who in turn, were given these loans they couldn't afford, by that same group of people. It's like their playing Monopoly. I think they feel guilty, NOT.
Luck is Tim Couch. Big, Dumb Goofy, slow thinking QB - Ghoolie, 2-28-12 -
I believe Steve said "front-runner & winner" not in office. So he would be correct.
Reading comprehension: look into it.
It is a fine thing indeed.
Not to mention the fact that Dems have been yapping all along about the deficit projection under Bill Clinton.
I'd point out that Bill had a Republican house and senate to keep him on track.
Also that we did not elect Clinton or any other moderate DLC Dem this time.
And the deficit hawks no longer have a place at the table.
(nor do the bipartisan gang or the accountability faction or the personal responsibility, uh, herd)
WSS
It is a fine thing indeed.
Not to mention the fact that Dems have been yapping all along about the deficit projection under Bill Clinton.
I'd point out that Bill had a Republican house and senate to keep him on track.
Also that we did not elect Clinton or any other moderate DLC Dem this time.
And the deficit hawks no longer have a place at the table.
(nor do the bipartisan gang or the accountability faction or the personal responsibility, uh, herd)
WSS
Republican house to keep him on track? They are all to blame.
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Legacy I dont think Laissez faire principles are the sole causation of our current predicament. It is certainly a important Factor but the war and rebuilding in two nations in the middle east (oil) is one HUGE factor.
We dont know how an Obama white house will administer yet... or how inefficient or efficient they can be. Judging by their primary and presidential campaigns they are a efficiency monster. Than again that is not working with a self serving combative congress and multiple federal and state agencies.
I started in the thread because of some flawed purely politicized concepts of the stimulas package spending "our money"... This problem is too large now that unless government steps in we are going to economically crash into a major depression. Investing from our own credit basically to save ourselves is the ONLY tool that is left. Its not like we have choices anymore.
The combo from the overreaction to 9-11 war in two countries and subseqeunt rebuilding efforts along with attempting to keep stability in the richest energy producing region combined with deregulated overaggressive insurance/securities products was too much for ANY economy to handle.
2 trillion and counting from the Iraq/afghanistan is a MAJOR economic drain.... imagine that money being spent HERE.... we would not be in the position we are in.
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It is a fine thing indeed.
Not to mention the fact that Dems have been yapping all along about the deficit projection under Bill Clinton.
I'd point out that Bill had a Republican house and senate to keep him on track.
Also that we did not elect Clinton or any other moderate DLC Dem this time.
And the deficit hawks no longer have a place at the table.
(nor do the bipartisan gang or the accountability faction or the personal responsibility, uh, herd)
WSS
Republican house to keep him on track? They are all to blame.
Republican house to keep him on track? They are all to blame.
So you are against a split?
You prefer carte blanche for this spending bill?
Or any bill for any president??
Or are you just hedging for Obammy?
WSS
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Legacy I dont think Laissez faire principles are the sole causation of our current predicament. It is certainly a important Factor but the war and rebuilding in two nations in the middle east (oil) is one HUGE factor.
We dont know how an Obama white house will administer yet... or how inefficient or efficient they can be. Judging by their primary and presidential campaigns they are a efficiency monster. Than again that is not working with a self serving combative congress and multiple federal and state agencies.
I started in the thread because of some flawed purely politicized concepts of the stimulas package spending "our money"... This problem is too large now that unless government steps in we are going to economically crash into a major depression. Investing from our own credit basically to save ourselves is the ONLY tool that is left. Its not like we have choices anymore.
The combo from the overreaction to 9-11 war in two countries and subseqeunt rebuilding efforts along with attempting to keep stability in the richest energy producing region combined with deregulated overaggressive insurance/securities products was too much for ANY economy to handle.
2 trillion and counting from the Iraq/afghanistan is a MAJOR economic drain.... imagine that money being spent HERE.... we would not be in the position we are in.
2 trillion and counting from the Iraq/afghanistan is a MAJOR economic drain.... imagine that money being spent HERE.... we would not be in the position we are in.
Spent where and on what exactly?
Imagine on the other hand a healthy and happy Saddam selling oil to France by the Euro.
Sound good?
WSS
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Legacy I dont think Laissez faire principles are the sole causation of our current predicament. It is certainly a important Factor but the war and rebuilding in two nations in the middle east (oil) is one HUGE factor.
We dont know how an Obama white house will administer yet... or how inefficient or efficient they can be. Judging by their primary and presidential campaigns they are a efficiency monster. Than again that is not working with a self serving combative congress and multiple federal and state agencies.
I started in the thread because of some flawed purely politicized concepts of the stimulas package spending "our money"... This problem is too large now that unless government steps in we are going to economically crash into a major depression. Investing from our own credit basically to save ourselves is the ONLY tool that is left. Its not like we have choices anymore.
The combo from the overreaction to 9-11 war in two countries and subseqeunt rebuilding efforts along with attempting to keep stability in the richest energy producing region combined with deregulated overaggressive insurance/securities products was too much for ANY economy to handle.
2 trillion and counting from the Iraq/afghanistan is a MAJOR economic drain.... imagine that money being spent HERE.... we would not be in the position we are in.
2 trillion and counting from the Iraq/afghanistan is a MAJOR economic drain.... imagine that money being spent HERE.... we would not be in the position we are in.
money that was approved by a democratic congress.....
you seem to think that bringing up an unrelated circumstance gives some sort of validation to your argument. think again.....our gov't wastes a ton of money.....you think its a waste when it goes to the war machine, others think its a waste giving it away to americans that didn't do a damn thing to earn it.
point being, wasting more money isn't an answer. it wasn't then, and it isn't now. im sure that 30 mil mouse fund could build a couple bridges as well....it is what it is.
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You prefer carte blanche for this spending bill?
No because it didn't work the first time for Bush.
Or are you just hedging for Obammy?
I am not "hedging" for anyone. I am "hedging" for our country.
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You prefer carte blanche for this spending bill?
No because it didn't work the first time for Bush.
Or are you just hedging for Obammy?
I am not "hedging" for anyone. I am "hedging" for our country.
You prefer carte blanche for this spending bill?
No because it didn't work the first time for Bush.
Bush 1?
Bush 2 had the slimmest of majorities while today Obammy can't be stopped.
But the economy was great until he lost that.
What was it you didn't like that went down along party lines, just for the heck of it?
Or are you just hedging for Obammy?
I am not "hedging" for anyone. I am "hedging" for our country.
Then what possible good does it do to keep bellyachinbg about Bush the idiot when he has nothing to do with this now?
I'm curious.
WSS
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choco 2 trillion dollars and counting is UNRELATED when it affects ENERGY meaing oil prices which effects EVERYTHING HERE..... OK. That has to be about the dumbest statement concerning ongoing causation of currency devaluation and GDP/economic cascading climates related to our current recession.
Steve..... how is Nigeria's corrupt warlords doing in that oil rich region... or any other dictator in Africa... As for a Saddam you are trying to shift a discussion about geopolitical morality? Really..... ANYONE who brings up some moral imperative about how terrible Saddam was as justification in some way for our obvious Oil grab is laughably simple. We the people ignore atrocities all over the globe and to point to one specific guy and say look we did the right thing is funny.
That loon in north Korea has starved MILLIONS of people to death and has concentration camps.... are we invading? NO.. there are quite a few despots currently operating or corrupt governments who commit wholesale murder.
Steve do you remember the quandry about what to do with the SOCIAL SECURITY SURPLUS FUNDS THAT BUSH INHERITED..... GONE. 2 Trillion dollars would go a long way into our energy infrastructure or moving our auto and manufacturing industry into more efficient models not to mention the energy utlity sector... Healthcare.....
If the dems had spent 2 trillion dollars on domestic programs the conservative republicans would have heart attacks. Choco go look up when the democrats got the BARE majority of congress and when Bush had a republican house and senate on who passed what. Bush had the bully pulpit and vetoed anything from the dems anyways and pretty much got his way.
Good god the Republican party is in shambles because they have no identity right now. Conservative spending is not something they did and Laissez faire principles leading to deregulation has helped destroy the ecnoomy. The neocon agenda led us into disaster in the middle east and drained 2 trillion + dollars and counting... remember when Bush and the republicans were talking about the oil in Iraq would pay for the war and rebuilding.... How is that going? Answer about as good as the "hunt" for Osama bin Ladin.
I am not saying government is efficient or will spend all of the stimulas effectively without special interest and waste. I happen to think the government pay to play special interest lobbying has hijacked our system and it no longer represents the people but corps and other organized groups.
I just happen to believe that this is the ONLY tool left to slow down and hopefully stop us from free falling into a major depression.
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I believe Steve said "front-runner & winner" not in office. So he would be correct.
Reading comprehension: look into it.
Awwww, your noble efforts to stick up for your boyfriend is lovable and cute. LOL, "front-runner and winner" applies to that he WON, right? Wouldn't winner suggest he WON the election? And front-runner of what? When he was the "front-runner" he had no control over what was going on during Bush's watch. LOL, so cute.
The point is that the crisis started well before even Bush was in office. When Clinton was in office, the Republicans lost a few seats in the House and gained a few in the Senate, but overall retained control of the Congress. Deregulation of home loans started then, not when "Obammy was the front-runner and winner". We can all agree the deregulation of home loans started this mess. It's everyone's fault Republican, Democrats, Presidents, and Congress.
Congress is now giving a hand out to the people who in turn, were given these loans they couldn't afford, by that same group of people. It's like their playing Monopoly. I think they feel guilty, NOT.
Awwww, your noble efforts to stick up for your boyfriend is lovable and cute. LOL, "front-runner and winner" applies to that he WON, right? Wouldn't winner suggest he WON the election? And front-runner of what? When he was the "front-runner" he had no control over what was going on during Bush's watch. LOL, so cute.
Indeed.
Yes, he "won" the election in November (the month before December) assuring his inevitable inauguration (another record Dow slide for a day) and he was the media "front-runner" back when he announced his intention to run for office.
Wow.
If English is not your 1st language, please accept my sincere apologies.
The point is that the crisis started well before even Bush was in office. When Clinton was in office, the Republicans lost a few seats in the House and gained a few in the Senate, but overall retained control of the Congress. Deregulation of home loans started then, not when "Obammy was the front-runner and winner". We can all agree the deregulation of home loans started this mess. It's everyone's fault Republican, Democrats, Presidents, and Congress.
Agree here also. Although it's actually more of the action of blocking of increased regulations on home loans per the Bush administration's suggestion that mindless idiot Barney Frank oversaw as chair of the finance committee. The "no-limit" insurance Fan/Fred offered to (read: forced on) lenders was what initiated the collapse. Some in the Bush admin thought this unwise but they were immediately labeled horned & tailed scrooges who didn't want the poor & middle class to have affordable housing - double so if you're a minority. Damn old white rich republicans at it again! Evil bastards.
Also, de-regulation under Clinton and his Republican congress was more in the enterprise sector (Enron) and not so much the housing market.
Congress is now giving a hand out to the people who in turn, were given these loans they couldn't afford, by that same group of people. It's like their playing Monopoly. I think they feel guilty, NOT.
In complete agreement here. Horrible idea.
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