Jonathan Paul Manziel
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But, THIS TIME, we decide to hold him back and NOT rush him in. And now we hear that thats the wrong way too.
Actually this is exactly the right way. But many here want to rush him in or send him packing. Either way that is way too premature a judgement to make. You all have to admit the Browns have a very negative history where QB's go to die. Oakland has the same history. Pettine for once is doing it right.
Actually this is exactly the right way. But many here want to rush him in or send him packing. Either way that is way too premature a judgement to make. You all have to admit the Browns have a very negative history where QB's go to die. Oakland has the same history. Pettine for once is doing it right.
Those QBs don't come here to die. They weren't very good and they came here and proved it. The only guy that kinda came here then went elsewhere and did OK was the veteran Jeff Garcia. Here they did try to put a round peg into a square hole. Garcia was a WCO system QB who could not run anything else, and when they tried a different offense here with him it didn't work. He went to a couple of other spots and did OK (Eagles, Bucs).
EVERYONE else that was brought here lacked the talent...intangibles...whatever to be a quality NFL QB.
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The Cleveland fan rep for chasing off QB's way before they have a chance to do anything seems well earned.
Because they all went on to greatness?
How do you think we should have kept around ... Frye? Quinn? McCoy? Weeden?
Zombo
Zombo said:
Because they all went on to greatness?
How do you think we should have kept around ... Frye? Quinn? McCoy? Weeden?
Zombo
Probably everyone would have some amount of improvement given more continuity. The system the coaching staff the ownership everything being fluid gives no one a chance to be all that they can be.
Build a good team and a mediocre quarterback can be successful as I always say. Look at the Browns.
Bernie was never successful after leaving the Browns. Is he a turd?
WSS
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Zombo said:
Because they all went on to greatness?
How do you think we should have kept around ... Frye? Quinn? McCoy? Weeden?
Zombo
Probably everyone would have some amount of improvement given more continuity. The system the coaching staff the ownership everything being fluid gives no one a chance to be all that they can be.
Build a good team and a mediocre quarterback can be successful as I always say. Look at the Browns.
Bernie was never successful after leaving the Browns. Is he a turd?
WSS
Probably everyone would have some amount of improvement given more continuity. The system the coaching staff the ownership everything being fluid gives no one a chance to be all that they can be.
Build a good team and a mediocre quarterback can be successful as I always say. Look at the Browns.
Bernie was never successful after leaving the Browns. Is he a turd?
WSS
He was shot before he left.
Zombo
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Probably everyone would have some amount of improvement given more continuity. The system the coaching staff the ownership everything being fluid gives no one a chance to be all that they can be.
Build a good team and a mediocre quarterback can be successful as I always say. Look at the Browns.
Bernie was never successful after leaving the Browns. Is he a turd?
WSS
He was shot before he left.
Zombo
Zombo said:
He was shot before he left.
Zombo
As "shot" as he may have been, he was better than Todd Philcox. He would probably be better, right here, right now.
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Zombo said:
He was shot before he left.
Zombo
As "shot" as he may have been, he was better than Todd Philcox. He would probably be better, right here, right now.
As "shot" as he may have been, he was better than Todd Philcox. He would probably be better, right here, right now.
Ya, cutting him while Testeverde was injured and we were in first place and handing over the reigns to Philcox was stupid. Bernie wasnt the same physically but he could still gut out some wins. Philcox blew.
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Just to make things clear with everyone, this happened to Manziel at 2:30 am Saturday, which means he was out on Friday night. People seem really confused about days and times for some reason. It does not mean he was out at 2:30 am the day of the game, that would be 2:30 am on Sunday. He was able to get his 8 hours of sleep the next night before the game so everyone can quit worrying if Johnny is sleeping enough.
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As I noted in one of the other threads, my concern about JFF being good or busting out has little to do with his style of play or his partying or even his perceived talent......as all QBs drafted in the first round are perceived to have great talent. Especially from their college days. But the fact is, drafting a QB is a crapshoot. (now...this may also be the case with drafting any other position, but we all know that QB is special and important). So, here are the first round QB draftees from the first round since 1970. this includes both regular and supplemental drafts. Figure out the busts from the elites....or the average QBs.:
1970
Terry Bradshaw..HOF
Mike Phipps.....bust.
1971
Jim Plunkett
Dan Pastorini
Archie Manning
all good picks imo
1972
Jerry Tagge...bust
John Reaves...bust
1973
Bert Jones....solid
1974...Clint Longley...supplemental..bust
1975
Steve Bartkowski.....average imo
1976
Richard Todd....average
1977
Steve Pisarkewisc....bust
Tommy Kramer....average imo
1978
Doug Williams.....good QB, Super Bowl winner
1979
Jack Thompson....bust
Phil Simms....good pick
Steve Fuller...bust
1980
Mark Wilson
Mark Malone
both below average imo though not complete busts
1981
Rich Campbell....bust
1982
Art Schlichter...bust
Jim McMahon...good pick
1983
John Elway...HOF
Blackledge...bust
Kelly....HOF
Eason...below average
O'Brien...actually a good pick
Marino...HOF
1984
Ken Hobart...supp....bust
Warren Peace (actually Wayne)....supp....bust
Steve Young....HOF
1985
Bernie Kosar....solid pick
1986
Chuck Long...bust
Jim Everett...solid pick
1987
Vinny Testaverde...solid pick
Jim Harbaugh....solid pick
Kelly Stouffer....bust
Chris Miller....average
1988
no first round picks
1989
Troy Aikman...HOF
Steve Walsh....bust
Tim Rosenbach...bust
1990
Jeff George....his statistics say OK, the eyeball test says bust
Andre War....bust
1991
Dan McGwire...bust
Todd Marinovich...bust
1992
David Klingler....bust
Tommy Maddox...bust
Dave Brown....bust
1993
Drew Bledsoe..solid pick
Rick Mirer....bust
1994
Heath Shuler....bust
Trent Dilfer....average
1996
none taken
1997
Jim Druckenmiller....bust
1998
Peyton Manning....HOF caliber
Ryan Leaf....bust
1999
Tim Couch....not a bust...but below avg. total career
Donovan McNabb....solid pick
Akili Smith....bust
Daunte Culpepper...solid pick
Cade McNown....bust
2000
Chad Pennington...solid pick
2001
Michael Vick....solid career
2002
David Carr....possible bust...but maybe not
Joey Harrington...bust
Patrick Ramsay....bust
2003
Carson Palmer...solid pick
Byron Leftwich....average
Kyle Boller....bust
Rex Grossman....average maybe
2004
Eli Manning...solid pick
Phillip Rivers...solid pick
Ben Roethlisberger....possible HOF
JP Losman....bust
2005
Alex Smith...solid
Aaron Rodgers....HOF caliber
Jason Campbell....average at best
2006
Vince Young....bust
Matt Leinert....bust
Jay Cutler....average
2007
Jamarcus Russell....bust
Brady Quinn....bust
2008
Matt Ryan....solid pick
Joe Flacco...solid pick
2009
Matt Stafford....solid pick
Mark Sanchez... average
Josh Freeman.....bordering on bust
2010
Sam Bradford.....below avg, bordering on bust
Tim Tebow....bust
2011
Cam Newton....solid pick
Jake Locker....below average
Blaine Gabbert....bust
Christian Ponder....bust
2012
Andrew Luck....HOF caliber
RGIII....jury out
Ryan Tannehill...jury out
Brandon Weeden....bust
2013
EJ Manuel....bust potential
2014
Blake Bortles....jury out
Johnny Manziel...jury out
Teddy Twatwater.....jury out.
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Now, with all that red on that list representing busts......can you all say with confidence that JFF won't in the future become a red letter boy? I gave the benefit of the doubt to a number of these guys. I really meant it when I said his future was 50/50....not based on his traits, but on all those that came before him.
Check out the entire decade of the 90s....basically only 3-4 good QBs taken in a decade in the first round:
Bledsoe, Peyton, McNabb, Culpepper.
(yes, I know that a guy like Favre was taken in a later round....I am only going with first rounders here)
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List the undrafted rookie qbs and you could make a great argument against Hoyer. Chill the fuck out until Johnny actually plays. He may be a bust or he may not be a bust. We're 7-4, and have a rookie qb in a great situation compared to Bridgewater, Bortles, Carr ect., who are on garbage teams. Shitty teams contribute a lot more towards a qb being a bust than is giving credit for. How do you think Tom Brady (although not a first rounder) would have turned out if he would've been the Brown's starter back in the early 2000s?
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List the undrafted rookie qbs and you could make a great argument against Hoyer. Chill the fuck out until Johnny actually plays. He may be a bust or he may not be a bust. We're 7-4, and have a rookie qb in a great situation compared to Bridgewater, Bortles, Carr ect., who are on garbage teams. Shitty teams contribute a lot more towards a qb being a bust than is giving credit for. How do you think Tom Brady (although not a first rounder) would have turned out if he would've been the Brown's starter back in the early 2000s?
List the undrafted rookie qbs and you could make a great argument against Hoyer. Chill the fuck out until Johnny actually plays. He may be a bust or he may not be a bust.
That is the exact fucking point of my post. Did you not read? It is those clamoring for JFF who think he should play now and who think he is their savior that need to chill out until he actually plays. All I am saying is that history shows that a vast perecentage of QBs taken in the first round are busts......and that to be absolutey convinced that JFF will be on the positive side of that ledger is just ignoring history.
We're 7-4, and have a rookie qb in a great situation compared to Bridgewater, Bortles, Carr ect., who are on garbage teams. Shitty teams contribute a lot more towards a qb being a bust than is giving credit for
Possibly true. On the other hand sometimes a good QB can break his team out of their shittiness. Brady may be one of those guys, since you mentioned him.
. How do you think Tom Brady (although not a first rounder) would have turned out if he would've been the Brown's starter back in the early 2000s?
I don't know....how about hopping on Mr. Sherman's way back machine and have the Browns take him instead of Spergon Wynn.
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I wonder if the rate of busts changes for guys who didn't play the majority of their rookie year. I can't imagine that's easy info to conjure up though.
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I wonder if the rate of busts changes for guys who didn't play the majority of their rookie year. I can't imagine that's easy info to conjure up though.
I wonder if the rate of busts changes for guys who didn't play the majority of their rookie year. I can't imagine that's easy info to conjure up though.
Good question. Don't know. It was more common for top pick QBs to wait in years past....60s/70s/80s. Since the 90s they want those top picks playing right away it seems.
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Long post that really says not a fucking thing.
"You planning on having a long relationship with that glass or are you going to drink it? Drink up, man. Maybe we can get another.” - Janis Joplin, 1970. -
I dont get this post?
Theres a ton of Non red letter names on there.. Why assume Johnny is one of them and not one of the good ones?
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List the undrafted rookie qbs and you could make a great argument against Hoyer. Chill the fuck out until Johnny actually plays. He may be a bust or he may not be a bust.
That is the exact fucking point of my post. Did you not read? It is those clamoring for JFF who think he should play now and who think he is their savior that need to chill out until he actually plays. All I am saying is that history shows that a vast perecentage of QBs taken in the first round are busts......and that to be absolutey convinced that JFF will be on the positive side of that ledger is just ignoring history.
We're 7-4, and have a rookie qb in a great situation compared to Bridgewater, Bortles, Carr ect., who are on garbage teams. Shitty teams contribute a lot more towards a qb being a bust than is giving credit for
Possibly true. On the other hand sometimes a good QB can break his team out of their shittiness. Brady may be one of those guys, since you mentioned him.
. How do you think Tom Brady (although not a first rounder) would have turned out if he would've been the Brown's starter back in the early 2000s?
I don't know....how about hopping on Mr. Sherman's way back machine and have the Browns take him instead of Spergon Wynn.
List the undrafted rookie qbs and you could make a great argument against Hoyer. Chill the fuck out until Johnny actually plays. He may be a bust or he may not be a bust.
That is the exact fucking point of my post. Did you not read? It is those clamoring for JFF who think he should play now and who think he is their savior that need to chill out until he actually plays. All I am saying is that history shows that a vast perecentage of QBs taken in the first round are busts......and that to be absolutey convinced that JFF will be on the positive side of that ledger is just ignoring history.
We're 7-4, and have a rookie qb in a great situation compared to Bridgewater, Bortles, Carr ect., who are on garbage teams. Shitty teams contribute a lot more towards a qb being a bust than is giving credit for
Possibly true. On the other hand sometimes a good QB can break his team out of their shittiness. Brady may be one of those guys, since you mentioned him.
. How do you think Tom Brady (although not a first rounder) would have turned out if he would've been the Brown's starter back in the early 2000s?
I don't know....how about hopping on Mr. Sherman's way back machine and have the Browns take him instead of Spergon Wynn.
Basically your post says, "Johnny may be a bust, so let's hope he's a bust." Quit bashing our rookie qb. Did you get beat up in high school or something? Are you one of those guys that pees in a stall and is mad at everyone?
Brady did not make the Patriots great. Look at their games from a season before and although they didn't have the best record almost every loss was within 3 points. Also a season before that they were 8-8. It was hardly a shitty team that was carried by a qb.
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Just to make things clear with everyone, this happened to Manziel at 2:30 am Saturday, which means he was out on Friday night. People seem really confused about days and times for some reason. It does not mean he was out at 2:30 am the day of the game, that would be 2:30 am on Sunday. He was able to get his 8 hours of sleep the next night before the game so everyone can quit worrying if Johnny is sleeping enough.
Just to make things clear with everyone, this happened to Manziel at 2:30 am Saturday, which means he was out on Friday night. People seem really confused about days and times for some reason. It does not mean he was out at 2:30 am the day of the game, that would be 2:30 am on Sunday. He was able to get his 8 hours of sleep the next night before the game so everyone can quit worrying if Johnny is sleeping enough.
AND let's not forget the unwritten rule that players should have their feet off the ground by the end of practice friday. monday and thursdays are the days players go out to 'go out'. anything after that then you are putting yourself out there for criticism. sure, the NFLPA will say different but you could tell by pettine's demeanor on the mic today that he didn't like answering questions about what happened to his second stringer at 2:30 in the morning on saturday the day they flew into atlanta.
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Just to make things clear with everyone, this happened to Manziel at 2:30 am Saturday, which means he was out on Friday night. People seem really confused about days and times for some reason. It does not mean he was out at 2:30 am the day of the game, that would be 2:30 am on Sunday. He was able to get his 8 hours of sleep the next night before the game so everyone can quit worrying if Johnny is sleeping enough.
AND let's not forget the unwritten rule that players should have their feet off the ground by the end of practice friday. monday and thursdays are the days players go out to 'go out'. anything after that then you are putting yourself out there for criticism. sure, the NFLPA will say different but you could tell by pettine's demeanor on the mic today that he didn't like answering questions about what happened to his second stringer at 2:30 in the morning on saturday the day they flew into atlanta.
AND let's not forget the unwritten rule that players should have their feet off the ground by the end of practice friday. monday and thursdays are the days players go out to 'go out'. anything after that then you are putting yourself out there for criticism. sure, the NFLPA will say different but you could tell by pettine's demeanor on the mic today that he didn't like answering questions about what happened to his second stringer at 2:30 in the morning on saturday the day they flew into atlanta.
The finger does what the finger wants. No ragrets...
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Holy shit. I thought Texas had good school systems. These Texas jackwads seem to all have the same reading comprehension problem.
No one here is insulting your boy love.
Id rather he not be on the team if it meant getting rid of these Texas queers.
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And as you go later into the rounds, more red would appear (if held to the same standards)
I did this for AP stats in HS based on QBR and round taken. There is a correlation. At least I think it was QBR, maybe we used something slightly different. Something that was pretty fair for determining"good" vs "bad"...
Ja.brill Peppers - Cleveland Brown OldBrownsFan, on 02 Jun 2017 - 5:09PM said: "No you are not the work of the devil but you are deceived by the devil." Who's got it better than us? Nooooobody! -
As of right now JFF is borderline bust and borderline average. Obviously he's not good enough to start. Or he would be by now. The pick was shoved down the throats of Farmer and Pettine. If not for us taking him he may not have went until the 2nd round or later because nobody else wanted him! Nobody. This is Hoyers team and I'll ride the Hoyer train to the Super Bowl.
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