Jonathan Paul Manziel
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I don't think the Browns FO is going to be pleased with Johnny Sideshow. His days could be numbered.
Conner Shaw may be moving up on the depth chart. LOL
GO BROWNS !
The Cleveland fan rep for chasing off QB's way before they have a chance to do anything seems well earned. This QB hasn't even played more than a few downs and you are ready to can him? Really? Good thing Pettine has more sense than many "fans".
The Cleveland fan rep for chasing off QB's way before they have a chance to do anything seems well earned.
Because they all went on to greatness?
How do you think we should have kept around ... Frye? Quinn? McCoy? Weeden?
Zombo
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Ok, someone said something, someone punched someone, was it a punch, a fight, a riot, Ms. JFF, an entourage, the other drunk asshole's fault, whatever, I'm not trying to figure that BS out.
So, what I know is a few hours after practice, meetings, etc. Friday and a few hours before getting on the plane to Atlanta, the 1st round QB (de facto future leader of the franchise) who hasn't proven jack-squat so far is testing the theory of - nothing good happens at 3 a.m.
I don't need to speculate or exaggerate anything to ask, do you think Johnny was giving himself a 100% chance of being 100% prepared to play Sunday had his number been called?
If you're a pro - in any field - who's been around long enough and proven himself, then you rightly get more benefit of the doubt. No matter what you believe about Johnny and what's true or what's a problem, is he at the point where an employer (coach, GM, owner) or co-worker (teammate) says, even just within their heads, "That deal last night was dumb/bad luck/inconsequential/who knows, but we know Johnny. It doesn't have anything to do with Johnny getting the job done."?
Ok, someone said something, someone punched someone, was it a punch, a fight, a riot, Ms. JFF, an entourage, the other drunk asshole's fault, whatever, I'm not trying to figure that BS out.
So, what I know is a few hours after practice, meetings, etc. Friday and a few hours before getting on the plane to Atlanta, the 1st round QB (de facto future leader of the franchise) who hasn't proven jack-squat so far is testing the theory of - nothing good happens at 3 a.m.
I don't need to speculate or exaggerate anything to ask, do you think Johnny was giving himself a 100% chance of being 100% prepared to play Sunday had his number been called?
If you're a pro - in any field - who's been around long enough and proven himself, then you rightly get more benefit of the doubt. No matter what you believe about Johnny and what's true or what's a problem, is he at the point where an employer (coach, GM, owner) or co-worker (teammate) says, even just within their heads, "That deal last night was dumb/bad luck/inconsequential/who knows, but we know Johnny. It doesn't have anything to do with Johnny getting the job done."?
At a minimum the time of the "incident" is a concern... even if JM had a note from Mom...
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I hear they are casting matthew mcconaughey to play JF in the movie. He will be driving a maserati though. JF don't play that pussy Lincoln shit.
What do gay horses eat?
HAAAYY!
That's a lot funnier in person.
McConaughey is way to tall though. More like Tom Cruise. With a lotta botox.
What do gay horses eat?
HAAAYY!
That's a lot funnier in person.
McConaughey is way to tall though. More like Tom Cruise. With a lotta botox.
Both McConaughey and Cruise are old enough to be JFFs daddy.
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I don't think the Browns FO is going to be pleased with Johnny Sideshow. His days could be numbered.
Conner Shaw may be moving up on the depth chart. LOL
GO BROWNS !
The Cleveland fan rep for chasing off QB's way before they have a chance to do anything seems well earned. This QB hasn't even played more than a few downs and you are ready to can him? Really? Good thing Pettine has more sense than many "fans".
The Cleveland fan rep for chasing off QB's way before they have a chance to do anything seems well earned. This QB hasn't even played more than a few downs and you are ready to can him? Really? Good thing Pettine has more sense than many "fans".
Really? Name a single QB that the Browns have "chased off" that has gone on to do "anything". Anything other than being a pine rider.
By the way, I will give you the answer: it is: No one, nobody......at least not since they ran off Len Dawson in the late 50s.
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2:30am on Monday morning. Shouldn't he be in bed and preparing for this week's game?
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I don't think the Browns FO is going to be pleased with Johnny Sideshow. His days could be numbered.
Conner Shaw may be moving up on the depth chart. LOL
GO BROWNS !
The Cleveland fan rep for chasing off QB's way before they have a chance to do anything seems well earned. This QB hasn't even played more than a few downs and you are ready to can him? Really? Good thing Pettine has more sense than many "fans".
The Cleveland fan rep for chasing off QB's way before they have a chance to do anything seems well earned. This QB hasn't even played more than a few downs and you are ready to can him? Really? Good thing Pettine has more sense than many "fans".
I think Pettine has "sense" enough to know that the QB that hasn't even played more than a few downs is more of a distraction than he's worth. Just so we understand each other I am a "fan" of the Cleveland Browns and have been for 50 years . I didn't follow some "Johnny" come lately, over hyped, juvenile delinquent half way across the country and miraculously call myself a Browns fan. I've lived through the losing, season after season, and watched us piss away one draft pick after another. Is it too much to ask of some kid you're giving millions of dollars to, to carry the clipboard with a little respect and professionalism? If you think Pettines and Farmers patience isn't wearing very thin with this guy, you need to take off your Aggie colored glasses.
GO BROWNS
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I don't think the Browns FO is going to be pleased with Johnny Sideshow. His days could be numbered.
Conner Shaw may be moving up on the depth chart. LOL
GO BROWNS !
The Cleveland fan rep for chasing off QB's way before they have a chance to do anything seems well earned. This QB hasn't even played more than a few downs and you are ready to can him? Really? Good thing Pettine has more sense than many "fans".
The Cleveland fan rep for chasing off QB's way before they have a chance to do anything seems well earned.
I gotta agree with Gip on this one. We haven't "run off" ANY quarterbacks. We did cut a bunch. But they all pretty much earned it. The fact that none of them ended up as a starter pretty much backs that up.
The truth is we're accused, more often, of rushing them in and getting them hurt or broken. The complaint was they weren't ready or the team just wasn't good enough for them yet. So, presumably, we ruin QB's by rushing them.
But, THIS TIME, we decide to hold him back and NOT rush him in. And now we hear that thats the wrong way too.
The Cleveland fans dont want to run JFF off. They just want him to start acting and playing like a top flight PROFESSIONAL, instead of acting like a college kid without a job.
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The Cleveland fan rep for chasing off QB's way before they have a chance to do anything seems well earned.
I gotta agree with Gip on this one. We haven't "run off" ANY quarterbacks. We did cut a bunch. But they all pretty much earned it. The fact that none of them ended up as a starter pretty much backs that up.
The truth is we're accused, more often, of rushing them in and getting them hurt or broken. The complaint was they weren't ready or the team just wasn't good enough for them yet. So, presumably, we ruin QB's by rushing them.
But, THIS TIME, we decide to hold him back and NOT rush him in. And now we hear that thats the wrong way too.
The Cleveland fans dont want to run JFF off. They just want him to start acting and playing like a top flight PROFESSIONAL, instead of acting like a college kid without a job.
But, THIS TIME, we decide to hold him back and NOT rush him in. And now we hear that thats the wrong way too.
Actually this is exactly the right way. But many here want to rush him in or send him packing. Either way that is way too premature a judgement to make. You all have to admit the Browns have a very negative history where QB's go to die. Oakland has the same history. Pettine for once is doing it right.
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But, THIS TIME, we decide to hold him back and NOT rush him in. And now we hear that thats the wrong way too.
Actually this is exactly the right way. But many here want to rush him in or send him packing. Either way that is way too premature a judgement to make. You all have to admit the Browns have a very negative history where QB's go to die. Oakland has the same history. Pettine for once is doing it right.
Actually this is exactly the right way.
I agree 100%
But many here want to rush him in or send him packing.
I agree again., But, there are ALWAYS gonna be 10% one way and 10% the other way and 80% in the middle
Either way that is way too premature a judgement to make.
And I agree again(thats 3)....but, I think the agrument is that, as YOU have said, we have a history of bad QB picks. They have failed, one by one and broken our spirits many many times. We have now invested ANOTHER first pick in a guy and ...#1) he didn't give a great effort in camp....#2) he didn't beat out a fairly average QB.....#3) he KEEPS getting in the news for negative reasons. .....#4)he hasn't flashed anything good, but has flashed numerous hints of trouble......so, knowing our history of flops, isn't it reasonable for "us"(not you) to feel like "HERE WE GO AGAIN"....?
Can you get that we are tired of QB's busting? That we'd like ONE to JUST show up, own it, play great and be the face of our franchise? Do you see how we are very leery of this guy and his act, since he HASN'T shown us anything else????
You all have to admit the Browns have a very negative history where QB's go to die.
Yes we do. So, like I said above, wish he would show us SOMETHING to prove he is the one. Right now, we've only gotten a clipboard holder, negative press and a bunch of commercials
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But, THIS TIME, we decide to hold him back and NOT rush him in. And now we hear that thats the wrong way too.
Actually this is exactly the right way. But many here want to rush him in or send him packing. Either way that is way too premature a judgement to make. You all have to admit the Browns have a very negative history where QB's go to die. Oakland has the same history. Pettine for once is doing it right.
Actually this is exactly the right way. But many here want to rush him in or send him packing. Either way that is way too premature a judgement to make. You all have to admit the Browns have a very negative history where QB's go to die. Oakland has the same history. Pettine for once is doing it right.
Those QBs don't come here to die. They weren't very good and they came here and proved it. The only guy that kinda came here then went elsewhere and did OK was the veteran Jeff Garcia. Here they did try to put a round peg into a square hole. Garcia was a WCO system QB who could not run anything else, and when they tried a different offense here with him it didn't work. He went to a couple of other spots and did OK (Eagles, Bucs).
EVERYONE else that was brought here lacked the talent...intangibles...whatever to be a quality NFL QB.
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The Cleveland fan rep for chasing off QB's way before they have a chance to do anything seems well earned.
Because they all went on to greatness?
How do you think we should have kept around ... Frye? Quinn? McCoy? Weeden?
Zombo
Zombo said:
Because they all went on to greatness?
How do you think we should have kept around ... Frye? Quinn? McCoy? Weeden?
Zombo
Probably everyone would have some amount of improvement given more continuity. The system the coaching staff the ownership everything being fluid gives no one a chance to be all that they can be.
Build a good team and a mediocre quarterback can be successful as I always say. Look at the Browns.
Bernie was never successful after leaving the Browns. Is he a turd?
WSS
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Zombo said:
Because they all went on to greatness?
How do you think we should have kept around ... Frye? Quinn? McCoy? Weeden?
Zombo
Probably everyone would have some amount of improvement given more continuity. The system the coaching staff the ownership everything being fluid gives no one a chance to be all that they can be.
Build a good team and a mediocre quarterback can be successful as I always say. Look at the Browns.
Bernie was never successful after leaving the Browns. Is he a turd?
WSS
Probably everyone would have some amount of improvement given more continuity. The system the coaching staff the ownership everything being fluid gives no one a chance to be all that they can be.
Build a good team and a mediocre quarterback can be successful as I always say. Look at the Browns.
Bernie was never successful after leaving the Browns. Is he a turd?
WSS
He was shot before he left.
Zombo
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Probably everyone would have some amount of improvement given more continuity. The system the coaching staff the ownership everything being fluid gives no one a chance to be all that they can be.
Build a good team and a mediocre quarterback can be successful as I always say. Look at the Browns.
Bernie was never successful after leaving the Browns. Is he a turd?
WSS
He was shot before he left.
Zombo
Zombo said:
He was shot before he left.
Zombo
As "shot" as he may have been, he was better than Todd Philcox. He would probably be better, right here, right now.
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Zombo said:
He was shot before he left.
Zombo
As "shot" as he may have been, he was better than Todd Philcox. He would probably be better, right here, right now.
As "shot" as he may have been, he was better than Todd Philcox. He would probably be better, right here, right now.
Ya, cutting him while Testeverde was injured and we were in first place and handing over the reigns to Philcox was stupid. Bernie wasnt the same physically but he could still gut out some wins. Philcox blew.
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Just to make things clear with everyone, this happened to Manziel at 2:30 am Saturday, which means he was out on Friday night. People seem really confused about days and times for some reason. It does not mean he was out at 2:30 am the day of the game, that would be 2:30 am on Sunday. He was able to get his 8 hours of sleep the next night before the game so everyone can quit worrying if Johnny is sleeping enough.
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As I noted in one of the other threads, my concern about JFF being good or busting out has little to do with his style of play or his partying or even his perceived talent......as all QBs drafted in the first round are perceived to have great talent. Especially from their college days. But the fact is, drafting a QB is a crapshoot. (now...this may also be the case with drafting any other position, but we all know that QB is special and important). So, here are the first round QB draftees from the first round since 1970. this includes both regular and supplemental drafts. Figure out the busts from the elites....or the average QBs.:
1970
Terry Bradshaw..HOF
Mike Phipps.....bust.
1971
Jim Plunkett
Dan Pastorini
Archie Manning
all good picks imo
1972
Jerry Tagge...bust
John Reaves...bust
1973
Bert Jones....solid
1974...Clint Longley...supplemental..bust
1975
Steve Bartkowski.....average imo
1976
Richard Todd....average
1977
Steve Pisarkewisc....bust
Tommy Kramer....average imo
1978
Doug Williams.....good QB, Super Bowl winner
1979
Jack Thompson....bust
Phil Simms....good pick
Steve Fuller...bust
1980
Mark Wilson
Mark Malone
both below average imo though not complete busts
1981
Rich Campbell....bust
1982
Art Schlichter...bust
Jim McMahon...good pick
1983
John Elway...HOF
Blackledge...bust
Kelly....HOF
Eason...below average
O'Brien...actually a good pick
Marino...HOF
1984
Ken Hobart...supp....bust
Warren Peace (actually Wayne)....supp....bust
Steve Young....HOF
1985
Bernie Kosar....solid pick
1986
Chuck Long...bust
Jim Everett...solid pick
1987
Vinny Testaverde...solid pick
Jim Harbaugh....solid pick
Kelly Stouffer....bust
Chris Miller....average
1988
no first round picks
1989
Troy Aikman...HOF
Steve Walsh....bust
Tim Rosenbach...bust
1990
Jeff George....his statistics say OK, the eyeball test says bust
Andre War....bust
1991
Dan McGwire...bust
Todd Marinovich...bust
1992
David Klingler....bust
Tommy Maddox...bust
Dave Brown....bust
1993
Drew Bledsoe..solid pick
Rick Mirer....bust
1994
Heath Shuler....bust
Trent Dilfer....average
1996
none taken
1997
Jim Druckenmiller....bust
1998
Peyton Manning....HOF caliber
Ryan Leaf....bust
1999
Tim Couch....not a bust...but below avg. total career
Donovan McNabb....solid pick
Akili Smith....bust
Daunte Culpepper...solid pick
Cade McNown....bust
2000
Chad Pennington...solid pick
2001
Michael Vick....solid career
2002
David Carr....possible bust...but maybe not
Joey Harrington...bust
Patrick Ramsay....bust
2003
Carson Palmer...solid pick
Byron Leftwich....average
Kyle Boller....bust
Rex Grossman....average maybe
2004
Eli Manning...solid pick
Phillip Rivers...solid pick
Ben Roethlisberger....possible HOF
JP Losman....bust
2005
Alex Smith...solid
Aaron Rodgers....HOF caliber
Jason Campbell....average at best
2006
Vince Young....bust
Matt Leinert....bust
Jay Cutler....average
2007
Jamarcus Russell....bust
Brady Quinn....bust
2008
Matt Ryan....solid pick
Joe Flacco...solid pick
2009
Matt Stafford....solid pick
Mark Sanchez... average
Josh Freeman.....bordering on bust
2010
Sam Bradford.....below avg, bordering on bust
Tim Tebow....bust
2011
Cam Newton....solid pick
Jake Locker....below average
Blaine Gabbert....bust
Christian Ponder....bust
2012
Andrew Luck....HOF caliber
RGIII....jury out
Ryan Tannehill...jury out
Brandon Weeden....bust
2013
EJ Manuel....bust potential
2014
Blake Bortles....jury out
Johnny Manziel...jury out
Teddy Twatwater.....jury out.
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Now, with all that red on that list representing busts......can you all say with confidence that JFF won't in the future become a red letter boy? I gave the benefit of the doubt to a number of these guys. I really meant it when I said his future was 50/50....not based on his traits, but on all those that came before him.
Check out the entire decade of the 90s....basically only 3-4 good QBs taken in a decade in the first round:
Bledsoe, Peyton, McNabb, Culpepper.
(yes, I know that a guy like Favre was taken in a later round....I am only going with first rounders here)
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List the undrafted rookie qbs and you could make a great argument against Hoyer. Chill the fuck out until Johnny actually plays. He may be a bust or he may not be a bust. We're 7-4, and have a rookie qb in a great situation compared to Bridgewater, Bortles, Carr ect., who are on garbage teams. Shitty teams contribute a lot more towards a qb being a bust than is giving credit for. How do you think Tom Brady (although not a first rounder) would have turned out if he would've been the Brown's starter back in the early 2000s?
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List the undrafted rookie qbs and you could make a great argument against Hoyer. Chill the fuck out until Johnny actually plays. He may be a bust or he may not be a bust. We're 7-4, and have a rookie qb in a great situation compared to Bridgewater, Bortles, Carr ect., who are on garbage teams. Shitty teams contribute a lot more towards a qb being a bust than is giving credit for. How do you think Tom Brady (although not a first rounder) would have turned out if he would've been the Brown's starter back in the early 2000s?
List the undrafted rookie qbs and you could make a great argument against Hoyer. Chill the fuck out until Johnny actually plays. He may be a bust or he may not be a bust.
That is the exact fucking point of my post. Did you not read? It is those clamoring for JFF who think he should play now and who think he is their savior that need to chill out until he actually plays. All I am saying is that history shows that a vast perecentage of QBs taken in the first round are busts......and that to be absolutey convinced that JFF will be on the positive side of that ledger is just ignoring history.
We're 7-4, and have a rookie qb in a great situation compared to Bridgewater, Bortles, Carr ect., who are on garbage teams. Shitty teams contribute a lot more towards a qb being a bust than is giving credit for
Possibly true. On the other hand sometimes a good QB can break his team out of their shittiness. Brady may be one of those guys, since you mentioned him.
. How do you think Tom Brady (although not a first rounder) would have turned out if he would've been the Brown's starter back in the early 2000s?
I don't know....how about hopping on Mr. Sherman's way back machine and have the Browns take him instead of Spergon Wynn.
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I wonder if the rate of busts changes for guys who didn't play the majority of their rookie year. I can't imagine that's easy info to conjure up though.
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