All of us Hoyer backers should admit one thing...
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First off let me state that nothing you have said warrants anyone telling you to STFU. You have an opinion and at least from what I've seen you're not a dick about it and you bring up valid points.
Its just an expression. He just reminds me of a teenage girl screaming and tearing her hair out at the sight of Donny Osmond. Girls acting that way for The Beatles was warranted....and they proved deserving of it. It was not warranted for Donny Osmond.
I just want this guy to wait to see if he has the Beatles on his hand....or Donny Osmond.
(are these references too outdated for you?)
Again I am not saying Johnny could win the Super Bowl and it is true that none of us know what we have with Johnny. But speaking of what we have seen Hoyer has not played well, no matter what metric you use. If the coaching staff came out and said that Johnny isn't ready to handle NFL defenses then I would shut up and let Hoyer play through without saying anything. But rookies have had success in the past, more success than Hoyer is having this year so who's to say Johnny couldn't be one of those rookies. And AJ Mccarron went undefeated and won championships at Alabama but nobody would say that adding Johnny would have made the team worse.
This is as much to do with how Hoyer has played as it is with what I hope to see with Johnny but at this point obviously the coaching staff isn't going to make a change.
Again I am not saying Johnny could win the Super Bowl and it is true that none of us know what we have with Johnny. But speaking of what we have seen Hoyer has not played well, no matter what metric you use. If the coaching staff came out and said that Johnny isn't ready to handle NFL defenses then I would shut up and let Hoyer play through without saying anything. But rookies have had success in the past, more success than Hoyer is having this year so who's to say Johnny couldn't be one of those rookies. And AJ Mccarron went undefeated and won championships at Alabama but nobody would say that adding Johnny would have made the team worse.
This is as much to do with how Hoyer has played as it is with what I hope to see with Johnny.
If you didn't get the reference, just say so. Donny Osmond had a hit in the 80s. It's as current as he goes, sorry man. Take some time and reflect. It has true bearing on this conversation.
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I understand what I would like the upside to be its just I wonder if it's feasible by this time in the league.
If it is expected that it takes six or seven years to be an above average quarterback with above average accuracy then we should have kept any of the aforementioned.
WSS
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You still did not address anything I posted..
Im asking you why you automatically expect Johnny to be bad.. instead of good...
I mean.. he was our first round draft pick that we traded up to get..
He had all the proper metrics in college that you look for.. for a QB with NFL potential..
I really dont understand why you automatically assume the worst instead of the best..
You still did not address anything I posted..
Im asking you why you automatically expect Johnny to be bad.. instead of good...
I mean.. he was our first round draft pick that we traded up to get..
He had all the proper metrics in college that you look for.. for a QB with NFL potential..
I really dont understand why you automatically assume the worst instead of the best..
Who are you addressing? I have seen no assumptions.
Johnny could be better for this team, he could not be. That's all we know (nothing) only NFL experience we've seen from johnny is pre season. Nobody is assuming he's going to be bad or good, he's an unknown.
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You still did not address anything I posted..
Im asking you why you automatically expect Johnny to be bad.. instead of good...
I mean.. he was our first round draft pick that we traded up to get..
He had all the proper metrics in college that you look for.. for a QB with NFL potential..
I really dont understand why you automatically assume the worst instead of the best..
You still did not address anything I posted..
Im asking you why you automatically expect Johnny to be bad.. instead of good...
I mean.. he was our first round draft pick that we traded up to get..
He had all the proper metrics in college that you look for.. for a QB with NFL potential..
I really dont understand why you automatically assume the worst instead of the best..
maybe no one wants to answer you because you're a dolt.
-
You still did not address anything I posted..
Im asking you why you automatically expect Johnny to be bad.. instead of good...
I mean.. he was our first round draft pick that we traded up to get..
He had all the proper metrics in college that you look for.. for a QB with NFL potential..
I really dont understand why you automatically assume the worst instead of the best..
Who are you addressing? I have seen no assumptions.
Johnny could be better for this team, he could not be. That's all we know (nothing) only NFL experience we've seen from johnny is pre season. Nobody is assuming he's going to be bad or good, he's an unknown.
Who are you addressing? I have seen no assumptions.
Johnny could be better for this team, he could not be. That's all we know (nothing) only NFL experience we've seen from johnny is pre season. Nobody is assuming he's going to be bad or good, he's an unknown.
But Hoyer is a known and he is not very good, no matter how much you tell me about the 7-4 record. Maybe Johnny would be 0-11 but maybe he would be 7-4 with the added ability to make something out of nothing, whether it's a broken play or the team is playing awful. And I know you wouldn't care about this but the excitement he brings is really something, that we can all agree. You all watched Texas A&M play simply because of him, just imagine watching your Browns play with him. I get 100% what you are saying and maybe putting Johnny in now is way to risky, but Hoyer isn't magically going to get more accurate. If we want to win in the playoffs I believe we need to make a change.
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Who are you addressing? I have seen no assumptions.
Johnny could be better for this team, he could not be. That's all we know (nothing) only NFL experience we've seen from johnny is pre season. Nobody is assuming he's going to be bad or good, he's an unknown.
But Hoyer is a known and he is not very good, no matter how much you tell me about the 7-4 record. Maybe Johnny would be 0-11 but maybe he would be 7-4 with the added ability to make something out of nothing, whether it's a broken play or the team is playing awful. And I know you wouldn't care about this but the excitement he brings is really something, that we can all agree. You all watched Texas A&M play simply because of him, just imagine watching your Browns play with him. I get 100% what you are saying and maybe putting Johnny in now is way to risky, but Hoyer isn't magically going to get more accurate. If we want to win in the playoffs I believe we need to make a change.
But Hoyer is a known and he is not very good, no matter how much you tell me about the 7-4 record. Maybe Johnny would be 0-11 but maybe he would be 7-4 with the added ability to make something out of nothing, whether it's a broken play or the team is playing awful. And I know you wouldn't care about this but the excitement he brings is really something, that we can all agree. You all watched Texas A&M play simply because of him, just imagine watching your Browns play with him. I get 100% what you are saying and maybe putting Johnny in now is way to risky, but Hoyer isn't magically going to get more accurate. If we want to win in the playoffs I believe we need to make a change.
alright. now i can definitely write you off as another JF fag.
please STFU. we've heard this shit since june.
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But Hoyer is a known and he is not very good, no matter how much you tell me about the 7-4 record. Maybe Johnny would be 0-11 but maybe he would be 7-4 with the added ability to make something out of nothing, whether it's a broken play or the team is playing awful. And I know you wouldn't care about this but the excitement he brings is really something, that we can all agree. You all watched Texas A&M play simply because of him, just imagine watching your Browns play with him. I get 100% what you are saying and maybe putting Johnny in now is way to risky, but Hoyer isn't magically going to get more accurate. If we want to win in the playoffs I believe we need to make a change.
alright. now i can definitely write you off as another JF fag.
please STFU. we've heard this shit since june.
alright. now i can definitely write you off as another JF fag.
please STFU. we've heard this shit since june.
I've said all I need to say and gave my opinion. We will see what happens the rest of the way. If we win the Super Bowl, fantastic!!! If we miss the playoffs there is always next year, which I'm sure you are all used to saying anyway.
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alright. now i can definitely write you off as another JF fag.
please STFU. we've heard this shit since june.
I've said all I need to say and gave my opinion. We will see what happens the rest of the way. If we win the Super Bowl, fantastic!!! If we miss the playoffs there is always next year, which I'm sure you are all used to saying anyway.
I've said all I need to say and gave my opinion. We will see what happens the rest of the way. If we win the Super Bowl, fantastic!!! If we miss the playoffs there is always next year, which I'm sure you are all used to saying anyway.
I almost hope we trade Manziel just because you'll be part of the package.
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Enough already. Good gravy. Manziel's time isn't now. Too much to learn too fast.
He doesn't have an entire cast of all-pros with him on offense, and he doesn't play
in a system that has been in place for years.
It's Hoyer, dammit.
" If people would have seen me my first year at A&M they would’ve said no way this kid could get to where I’m at today. People don’t understand that my first year-and-a-half at A&M I was terrible." -
It's real simple guys. JFF will sit until next year! No matter how bad this hurts the fanboys it's true. This is Hoyers time and if he leads us to the playoffs I'd consider getting rid of the distraction that is Johnny Manziel. As a Browns fan thru the best and worst times going back a few decades I want a win now team and right now we have that. Despite some bad throws by Hoyer every week, he shines when it's clutch time. Hoyer at this point is not only deserving but proven he is worthy. He is Mr Clutch when the game is on the line. In this league, the QB has to have a short memory after a bad series or 3 and perform when the game is on the line. Hoyer is a badazz when the pressure is on. No wonder we are competing for a division championship. I got your back Brian, and so do many Browns fans. As for the fanboys? Meh
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alright. now i can definitely write you off as another JF fag.
please STFU. we've heard this shit since june.
I've said all I need to say and gave my opinion. We will see what happens the rest of the way. If we win the Super Bowl, fantastic!!! If we miss the playoffs there is always next year, which I'm sure you are all used to saying anyway.
If we win the Super Bowl, fantastic!!! If we miss the playoffs there is always next year, which I'm sure you are all used to saying anyway.
see you gave yourself away.
we miss the playoffs?
you are not even a brown's fan so go shit in a hat.
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alright. now i can definitely write you off as another JF fag.
please STFU. we've heard this shit since june.
I've said all I need to say and gave my opinion. We will see what happens the rest of the way. If we win the Super Bowl, fantastic!!! If we miss the playoffs there is always next year, which I'm sure you are all used to saying anyway.
I've said all I need to say and gave my opinion. We will see what happens the rest of the way. If we win the Super Bowl, fantastic!!! If we miss the playoffs there is always next year, which I'm sure you are all used to saying anyway.
Nice jab, chief. I'll remember that. Along with your pillars of paragraphs on Johnny Love. I hope he lights it up for us as much as you do.
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However I also don't think its johnny time with the browns at 7-4. Hoyer would need to fuck up and lose in order for a switch to be put in place. Manziel is still a rookie after all and the jury is still very much out on whether or not his game is really going to translate to the NFL level. I think you see hoyer until he goes full on melt down mode. As far as the future is concerned he doesn't have the physical tools to be a franchise type qb but I also don't believe the browns think he's that in the first place. If they did manziel would not have been drafted in the first round.
However I also don't think its johnny time with the browns at 7-4. Hoyer would need to fuck up and lose in order for a switch to be put in place. Manziel is still a rookie after all and the jury is still very much out on whether or not his game is really going to translate to the NFL level. I think you see hoyer until he goes full on melt down mode. As far as the future is concerned he doesn't have the physical tools to be a franchise type qb but I also don't believe the browns think he's that in the first place. If they did manziel would not have been drafted in the first round.
There was also his injury bro to consider. I mean some valid points, but an acl we needed a backup plan.
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Who are you addressing? I have seen no assumptions.
Johnny could be better for this team, he could not be. That's all we know (nothing) only NFL experience we've seen from johnny is pre season. Nobody is assuming he's going to be bad or good, he's an unknown.
But Hoyer is a known and he is not very good, no matter how much you tell me about the 7-4 record. Maybe Johnny would be 0-11 but maybe he would be 7-4 with the added ability to make something out of nothing, whether it's a broken play or the team is playing awful. And I know you wouldn't care about this but the excitement he brings is really something, that we can all agree. You all watched Texas A&M play simply because of him, just imagine watching your Browns play with him. I get 100% what you are saying and maybe putting Johnny in now is way to risky, but Hoyer isn't magically going to get more accurate. If we want to win in the playoffs I believe we need to make a change.
But Hoyer is a known and he is not very good, no matter how much you tell me about the 7-4 record. Maybe Johnny would be 0-11 but maybe he would be 7-4 with the added ability to make something out of nothing, whether it's a broken play or the team is playing awful. And I know you wouldn't care about this but the excitement he brings is really something, that we can all agree. You all watched Texas A&M play simply because of him, just imagine watching your Browns play with him. I get 100% what you are saying and maybe putting Johnny in now is way to risky, but Hoyer isn't magically going to get more accurate. If we want to win in the playoffs I believe we need to make a change.
Throwing a rookie in for week 12 would not be a wise decision during a playoff run, even if that rookie was Andrew Luck. Would really piss off the vets that have worked their asses off this year. We don't know what Johnny can do, but now is not the time to experiment.
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You still did not address anything I posted..
Im asking you why you automatically expect Johnny to be bad.. instead of good...
I mean.. he was our first round draft pick that we traded up to get..
He had all the proper metrics in college that you look for.. for a QB with NFL potential..
I really dont understand why you automatically assume the worst instead of the best..
maybe no one wants to answer you because you're a dolt.
maybe no one wants to answer you because you're a dolt.
You see.. this is why this place is just ignorant. Animals throwing crap.
I was asking legitimate questiones mainly aimed at Gip.
He is looking at everything Johnny from a glass half empty perspective instead of a glass half full perspective.. even after he admitted it could go either way.
So I was asking what were the reasons behind his glass half empty perspective.
Especially since he is our first round draft pick we TRADED UP to get?
Wouldnt we WANT him to be everything he showed he could be?
Wouldnt we be inclined to see the glass half full?
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maybe no one wants to answer you because you're a dolt.
You see.. this is why this place is just ignorant. Animals throwing crap.
I was asking legitimate questiones mainly aimed at Gip.
He is looking at everything Johnny from a glass half empty perspective instead of a glass half full perspective.. even after he admitted it could go either way.
So I was asking what were the reasons behind his glass half empty perspective.
Especially since he is our first round draft pick we TRADED UP to get?
Wouldnt we WANT him to be everything he showed he could be?
Wouldnt we be inclined to see the glass half full?
You see.. this is why this place is just ignorant. Animals throwing crap.
I was asking legitimate questiones mainly aimed at Gip.
He is looking at everything Johnny from a glass half empty perspective instead of a glass half full perspective.. even after he admitted it could go either way.
So I was asking what were the reasons behind his glass half empty perspective.
Especially since he is our first round draft pick we TRADED UP to get?
Wouldnt we WANT him to be everything he showed he could be?
Wouldnt we be inclined to see the glass half full?
yes of course. but the fact that we are winning with hoyer might not allow manziel to see the field this year. are you alright with that?
and what happens if the browns choose to sign hoyer, go into training camp and he still beats out manziel, you're alright with that as well? if so, fine. but most manziel fans won't be and maybe manziel won't be as well.
then what? and i don't want you just to answer but every other 'put manziel in' fan. because if it ain't broke then why fix it?
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You still did not address anything I posted..
Im asking you why you automatically expect Johnny to be bad.. instead of good...
I mean.. he was our first round draft pick that we traded up to get..
He had all the proper metrics in college that you look for.. for a QB with NFL potential..
I really dont understand why you automatically assume the worst instead of the best..
You still did not address anything I posted..
Im asking you why you automatically expect Johnny to be bad.. instead of good...
I mean.. he was our first round draft pick that we traded up to get..
He had all the proper metrics in college that you look for.. for a QB with NFL potential..
I really dont understand why you automatically assume the worst instead of the best..
1) I saw enough in preseason to know that Johnny's at least a year away.
2) That being said, I don't know shit...they people that really know shit are the coaches. They're the ones who watch him every week taking snaps against 1st and 2nd team defense's. You can be sure he's making enough mistakes in practice for the coaches to be saying we need to stay with Hoyer this year.
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How do we know Johnny wouldnt have had a rookie season like Griffin? Luck? Wilson? or Newton?
They were all rookies and had huge rookie seasons.
What is stopping Johnny from putting up a rookie season like that?
How is it a "pipe dream" if it has happened 4 times in the last few years?
How do we know Johnny wouldnt have had a rookie season like Griffin? Luck? Wilson? or Newton?
They were all rookies and had huge rookie seasons.
What is stopping Johnny from putting up a rookie season like that?
How is it a "pipe dream" if it has happened 4 times in the last few years?
B already answered that- I know you're visiting from the other board, I know your stance, so I'll try to be civil. Luck is a once in a decade talent like Elway and Manning. Nuff said there. Wilson had the benefit of the best defense since the Super Bowl Ravens to bail him out. RG Knee and Newton are starting to look like one year flash in the pans- hey Derek Anderson had one great year too, no? Washington's trade for Griffin will go down as one of the 3 worst in NFL history- and you can take that to the bank. BTW, Griffin and Manziel do share a trait- lack of accountability for their actions.
You still did not address anything I posted..
Im asking you why you automatically expect Johnny to be bad.. instead of good...
I mean.. he was our first round draft pick that we traded up to get..
He had all the proper metrics in college that you look for.. for a QB with NFL potential..
I really dont understand why you automatically assume the worst instead of the best..
You ever see that guys jersey with the 21 Browns qbs since 1999 on the back? Yeah, we traded up to get Quinn too- so tell me how that worked out. So excuse me if I'll believe Manziel is the real deal when I see it.
But Hoyer is a known and he is not very good, no matter how much you tell me about the 7-4 record. Maybe Johnny would be 0-11 but maybe he would be 7-4 with the added ability to make something out of nothing, whether it's a broken play or the team is playing awful. And I know you wouldn't care about this but the excitement he brings is really something, that we can all agree. You all watched Texas A&M play simply because of him, just imagine watching your Browns play with him. I get 100% what you are saying and maybe putting Johnny in now is way to risky, but Hoyer isn't magically going to get more accurate. If we want to win in the playoffs I believe we need to make a change.
You may believe putting Manziel in now is a good idea- I say that's nuts. You know who else wans't very good and won a Super Bowl? Trent Dilfer- his career stats mirror Hoyer's. Doug Williams wasn't very good either. Jim McMahon, Jeff Hostetler. I'm going to save myself some time typing and let you peruse the list of lousy quarterbacks that just happened to be good enough to play in a Super Bowl.
http://www.profootballhof.com/history/release.aspx?release_id=97 You've just joined the Fan Boy Club with that statement. You want to share some Manziel love there's another Forum out there that will welcome you with open arms- PM Playground Legend or me, and we'll point you in the right direction.
Throwing a rookie in for week 12 would not be a wise decision during a playoff run, even if that rookie was Andrew Luck. Would really piss off the vets that have worked their asses off this year. We don't know what Johnny can do, but now is not the time to experiment.
Exactly Joe Thomas and the rest of the team are behind Hoyer- they see JFF every day in practice hmmm.
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If we win the Super Bowl, fantastic!!! If we miss the playoffs there is always next year, which I'm sure you are all used to saying anyway.
see you gave yourself away.
we miss the playoffs?
you are not even a brown's fan so go shit in a hat.
see you gave yourself away.
we miss the playoffs?
you are not even a brown's fan so go shit in a hat.
Yes we miss the playoffs. I am a Browns fan like it or not. I like it when the team wins, even with Hoyer as quarterback. I would rather be a JM Fag then a Browns fan so desperate for a winning season they are too afraid to change anything.
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How do we know Johnny wouldnt have had a rookie season like Griffin? Luck? Wilson? or Newton?
They were all rookies and had huge rookie seasons.
What is stopping Johnny from putting up a rookie season like that?
How is it a "pipe dream" if it has happened 4 times in the last few years?
B already answered that- I know you're visiting from the other board, I know your stance, so I'll try to be civil. Luck is a once in a decade talent like Elway and Manning. Nuff said there. Wilson had the benefit of the best defense since the Super Bowl Ravens to bail him out. RG Knee and Newton are starting to look like one year flash in the pans- hey Derek Anderson had one great year too, no? Washington's trade for Griffin will go down as one of the 3 worst in NFL history- and you can take that to the bank. BTW, Griffin and Manziel do share a trait- lack of accountability for their actions.
You still did not address anything I posted..
Im asking you why you automatically expect Johnny to be bad.. instead of good...
I mean.. he was our first round draft pick that we traded up to get..
He had all the proper metrics in college that you look for.. for a QB with NFL potential..
I really dont understand why you automatically assume the worst instead of the best..
You ever see that guys jersey with the 21 Browns qbs since 1999 on the back? Yeah, we traded up to get Quinn too- so tell me how that worked out. So excuse me if I'll believe Manziel is the real deal when I see it.
But Hoyer is a known and he is not very good, no matter how much you tell me about the 7-4 record. Maybe Johnny would be 0-11 but maybe he would be 7-4 with the added ability to make something out of nothing, whether it's a broken play or the team is playing awful. And I know you wouldn't care about this but the excitement he brings is really something, that we can all agree. You all watched Texas A&M play simply because of him, just imagine watching your Browns play with him. I get 100% what you are saying and maybe putting Johnny in now is way to risky, but Hoyer isn't magically going to get more accurate. If we want to win in the playoffs I believe we need to make a change.
You may believe putting Manziel in now is a good idea- I say that's nuts. You know who else wans't very good and won a Super Bowl? Trent Dilfer- his career stats mirror Hoyer's. Doug Williams wasn't very good either. Jim McMahon, Jeff Hostetler. I'm going to save myself some time typing and let you peruse the list of lousy quarterbacks that just happened to be good enough to play in a Super Bowl.
http://www.profootballhof.com/history/release.aspx?release_id=97 You've just joined the Fan Boy Club with that statement. You want to share some Manziel love there's another Forum out there that will welcome you with open arms- PM Playground Legend or me, and we'll point you in the right direction.
Throwing a rookie in for week 12 would not be a wise decision during a playoff run, even if that rookie was Andrew Luck. Would really piss off the vets that have worked their asses off this year. We don't know what Johnny can do, but now is not the time to experiment.
Exactly Joe Thomas and the rest of the team are behind Hoyer- they see JFF every day in practice hmmm.
B already answered that- I know you're visiting from the other board, I know your stance, so I'll try to be civil. Luck is a once in a decade talent like Elway and Manning. Nuff said there. Wilson had the benefit of the best defense since the Super Bowl Ravens to bail him out. RG Knee and Newton are starting to look like one year flash in the pans- hey Derek Anderson had one great year too, no? Washington's trade for Griffin will go down as one of the 3 worst in NFL history- and you can take that to the bank. BTW, Griffin and Manziel do share a trait- lack of accountability for their actions.
You ever see that guys jersey with the 21 Browns qbs since 1999 on the back? Yeah, we traded up to get Quinn too- so tell me how that worked out. So excuse me if I'll believe Manziel is the real deal when I see it.
You may believe putting Manziel in now is a good idea- I say that's nuts. You know who else wans't very good and won a Super Bowl? Trent Dilfer- his career stats mirror Hoyer's. Doug Williams wasn't very good either. Jim McMahon, Jeff Hostetler. I'm going to save myself some time typing and let you peruse the list of lousy quarterbacks that just happened to be good enough to play in a Super Bowl.
http://www.profootballhof.com/history/release.aspx?release_id=97 You've just joined the Fan Boy Club with that statement.
Exactly Joe Thomas and the rest of the team are behind Hoyer- they see JFF every day in practice hmmm.
I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. I'm sure Thomas would be behind Manziel if Hoyer got hurt.
B already answered that- I know you're visiting from the other board, I know your stance, so I'll try to be civil. Luck is a once in a decade talent like Elway and Manning. Nuff said there. Wilson had the benefit of the best defense since the Super Bowl Ravens to bail him out. RG Knee and Newton are starting to look like one year flash in the pans- hey Derek Anderson had one great year too, no? Washington's trade for Griffin will go down as one of the 3 worst in NFL history- and you can take that to the bank. BTW, Griffin and Manziel do share a trait- lack of accountability for their actions.
You ever see that guys jersey with the 21 Browns qbs since 1999 on the back? Yeah, we traded up to get Quinn too- so tell me how that worked out. So excuse me if I'll believe Manziel is the real deal when I see it.
You may believe putting Manziel in now is a good idea- I say that's nuts. You know who else wans't very good and won a Super Bowl? Trent Dilfer- his career stats mirror Hoyer's. Doug Williams wasn't very good either. Jim McMahon, Jeff Hostetler. I'm going to save myself some time typing and let you peruse the list of lousy quarterbacks that just happened to be good enough to play in a Super Bowl.
http://www.profootballhof.com/history/release.aspx?release_id=97 You've just joined the Fan Boy Club with that statement. You want to share some Manziel love there's another Forum out there that will welcome you with open arms- PM Playground Legend or me, and we'll point you in the right direction.
Exactly Joe Thomas and the rest of the team are behind Hoyer- they see JFF every day in practice hmmm.
I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. Just because they are behind Hoyer doesn't mean they wouldn't be behind Manziel if Hoyer got injured. The fact is Manziel doesn't get the reps in practice that Hoyer gets and no matter how shitty Hoyer plays in practice and/or how good Manziel plays in practice you can't bench a qb 11 games into a playoff run season.
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