Jonathan Paul Manziel
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and taking it one further.....assuming there is only one obvious Elway, Manning or Luck every 10 years.....
Then it would 320 years for us each to get one.....and thats only with everyone getting an equal shot......
And the fact that INDY got the last 2, says we all dont get an equal shot.....
Think about it....
So, we could wait another 400 years....or.....go with the best we got.
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But what you seem to be arguing "Johnny isn't the prototypical 1st round guy" could be interpreted as saying "Johnny could be expected to have a higher chance of failure" than other 1st rounders. That is what I am hearing....but I don't think that is what you want to say.
But what you seem to be arguing "Johnny isn't the prototypical 1st round guy" could be interpreted as saying "Johnny could be expected to have a higher chance of failure" than other 1st rounders. That is what I am hearing....but I don't think that is what you want to say.
No, not saying that. I'm saying the opposite. He is the anti-jamarcus Russell/Ryan Leaf/Ponder/ej Manuel.
He was taken in the first round DESPITE the fact he is a little under 6 feet tall. The only other first round "bust" comparable to Manziel would be Vick, if he is considered a bust, and that's debatable.
Hopefully, Johnny isn't running an illegal dog-fighting ring on the side in Kerrville.
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Here's another good sign for Johnny. Colin Cowherd says he will never last in the nfl. This is easily the 5th time cowherd has done this and he's been wrong every previous time. Most famously, he said Bama would knock him out of last year's game and win by 30+. They won 49-42 and manziel put 562 yards on them.
Johnny hears this. It motivates him. When he jits the field, he will desperately want to prove he can play.
Lets hope you are right. So you are saying that Cowherd success at his predictions have far worse odds than first round QB picks.
Lets hope you are right. So you are saying that Cowherd success at his predictions have far worse odds than first round QB picks.
Gip figure this one out please!
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and taking it one further.....assuming there is only one obvious Elway, Manning or Luck every 10 years.....
Then it would 320 years for us each to get one.....and thats only with everyone getting an equal shot......
And the fact that INDY got the last 2, says we all dont get an equal shot.....
Think about it....
So, we could wait another 400 years....or.....go with the best we got.
and taking it one further.....assuming there is only one obvious Elway, Manning or Luck every 10 years.....
Then it would 320 years for us each to get one.....and thats only with everyone getting an equal shot......
And the fact that INDY got the last 2, says we all dont get an equal shot.....
Think about it....
So, we could wait another 400 years....or.....go with the best we got.
The Colts also drafted Elway, remember, but he wouldn't play for them.
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But what you seem to be arguing "Johnny isn't the prototypical 1st round guy" could be interpreted as saying "Johnny could be expected to have a higher chance of failure" than other 1st rounders. That is what I am hearing....but I don't think that is what you want to say.
No, not saying that. I'm saying the opposite. He is the anti-jamarcus Russell/Ryan Leaf/Ponder/ej Manuel.
He was taken in the first round DESPITE the fact he is a little under 6 feet tall. The only other first round "bust" comparable to Manziel would be Vick, if he is considered a bust, and that's debatable.
Hopefully, Johnny isn't running an illegal dog-fighting ring on the side in Kerrville.
No, not saying that. I'm saying the opposite.
It didn't sound like it.
He is the anti-jamarcus Russell/Ryan Leaf/Ponder/ej Manuel.
Or, maybe he will fit right in? Hopefully not. What we want is the anti-Weeden/Quinn, OK
He was taken in the first round DESPITE the fact he is a little under 6 feet tall. The only other first round "bust" comparable to Manziel would be Vick, if he is considered a bust, and that's debatable.
You are putting a bit too much emphasis on his height.
Hopefully, Johnny isn't running an illegal dog-fighting ring on the side in Kerrville.
No, just giraffe fighting, gazelles, longhorn....other exotic animals
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Just reviewed several "Best College QB ever" lists....always a fun thing to do....and they were all just about the same(give or take a player)....very close....
So, here is the consensus "10 best college QB's" over the last 10 years......note: The Browns picked 3 of them.....
10) Brady Quinn
09) Sam Bradford
08) RG3
07) Colt McCoy
06) Andrew Luck
05) Matt Leinart
04) Johnny Manziel
03) Cam Newton
02) Vince Young
01) Tim Tebow
And, out of the whole list, how many NFL winners???....one?.....hahaha.....
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Gip, how am I putting too much emphasis on his height? He's the only qb under 6' taken in the first round in the Super Bowl era, even though he's only a quarter inch under 6'.
The most common characteristics for first round qb busts are big guys with great arm strength. Manziel is not that, though he could still be a bust.
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and taking it one further.....assuming there is only one obvious Elway, Manning or Luck every 10 years.....
Then it would 320 years for us each to get one.....and thats only with everyone getting an equal shot......
And the fact that INDY got the last 2, says we all dont get an equal shot.....
Think about it....
So, we could wait another 400 years....or.....go with the best we got.
The Colts also drafted Elway, remember, but he wouldn't play for them.
The Colts also drafted Elway, remember, but he wouldn't play for them.
Oh wow.....I completely forgot about that..........its a CONSPIRACY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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and taking it one further.....assuming there is only one obvious Elway, Manning or Luck every 10 years.....
Then it would 320 years for us each to get one.....and thats only with everyone getting an equal shot......
And the fact that INDY got the last 2, says we all dont get an equal shot.....
Think about it....
So, we could wait another 400 years....or.....go with the best we got.
The Colts also drafted Elway, remember, but he wouldn't play for them.
The Colts also drafted Elway, remember, but he wouldn't play for them.
Sure do.
If I recall, Elway was a west coast guy that wouldn't play in Baltimore because it was too cold.
I wonder if anyone ever took the time to tell him about the weather in Denver before he signed?
Two things that will define you: Your determination when you have nothing. Your attitude when you have everything. - Mike McCartney -
Mudfly, I've never said Johnny will ne a great pro. I've said I hope he becomes one, and I have a history of seeing him not fail against overwhelming odds.
My main point in my first post was that most first-round qb busts are big strong-armed guys who "look" like the right guy, but have huge overlooked flaws. Johnny in no way fits that description. He was taken so high because he is awesome at every other part of the game other than size. If he was 6' 4", he would be Andrew Luck who maybe parties too much.
And I'm not trying to be a broken record, I only talk Johnny on Johnny threads, and usually try to be a voice of reason, not a rah-rah guy.
#1) My main point in my first post was that most first-round qb busts are big strong-armed guys who "look" like the right guy, but have huge overlooked flaws.
#2) Johnny in no way fits that description. He was taken so high because he is awesome at every other part of the game other than size.
#3) If he was 6' 4", he would be Andrew Luck who maybe parties too much.
#4) And I'm not trying to be a broken record
#5) I .....usually try to be a voice of reason, not a rah-rah guy.
#1) The argument to that is most(if not all) of the successful QB's in this league ARE big strong armed guys, compared to the number of short running QB's who have made it.....and of course most of the failures look like prototype QB's, thats why they were drafted to begin with
#2) I understand your points. Again, it's just that none of us know, and repeating it over and over doesn't make it so. Yes, he has the "intangibles" that are hard to measure. He was a winner, had a never say die attitude, etc etc etc..... We get it(for the millionth time).... And the opposing argument is there have been many others just like that. McCoy & Tebow are PERFECT examples. Too small, limited skills, but always found the way to win games.
So, if I can understand WHY he was selected (has good intangibles), why is it so hard for you to understand WHY people have concerns(missing many tangibles)....it's 6 of one, half dozen of the other....for every positive you present, there is also an opposing negative someone else can present.....and no one will change their stand UNTIL he plays......do you not see that?....
#3) Mute point. He's not Luck and he's not 6'-4". Not even close on either.
#4) But you are....you told us the same thing 57 kazillion times
#5) I used to think that. Not so much anymore.....
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The Colts also drafted Elway, remember, but he wouldn't play for them.
Sure do.
If I recall, Elway was a west coast guy that wouldn't play in Baltimore because it was too cold.
I wonder if anyone ever took the time to tell him about the weather in Denver before he signed?
Sure do.
If I recall, Elway was a west coast guy that wouldn't play in Baltimore because it was too cold.
I wonder if anyone ever took the time to tell him about the weather in Denver before he signed?
I think Eli Manning did the same thing to SanDiego....told em NOT to pick him....then forced a trade when they did....
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Sure do.
If I recall, Elway was a west coast guy that wouldn't play in Baltimore because it was too cold.
I wonder if anyone ever took the time to tell him about the weather in Denver before he signed?
I think Eli Manning did the same thing to SanDiego....told em NOT to pick him....then forced a trade when they did....
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Gip, how am I putting too much emphasis on his height? He's the only qb under 6' taken in the first round in the Super Bowl era, even though he's only a quarter inch under 6'.
The most common characteristics for first round qb busts are big guys with great arm strength. Manziel is not that, though he could still be a bust.
Gip, how am I putting too much emphasis on his height? He's the only qb under 6' taken in the first round in the Super Bowl era, even though he's only a quarter inch under 6'.
The most common characteristics for first round qb busts are big guys with great arm strength. Manziel is not that, though he could still be a bust.
Well, he is like the ONLY QB on my original list to be under 6' to be drafted in the last like 50 years.....so obviously he is going to be in a class pretty much by himself when it comes to height.....and logically since there were many, many other taller QBs they will have had their share of busts. So I would remove that factor from the equation altogether.
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Mudfly, I'll comment on your last 3 statements.
#3) Mute point. He's not Luck and he's not 6'-4". Not even close on either.
This dumb statement is why I sound like a broken record. On your own post about top 10 college qb's Luck is 6th and Manziel is 4th. Not even close though, by your genius account. Johnny played 1 less year in college, too, and is still ranked higher.
#4) But you are....you told us the same thing 57 kazillion times
Explained above. Don't make illogical statements about him and I'll stop pointing out where they're wrong.
#5) I used to think that. Not so much anymore.....
Whatever. I realize Browns fans have suffered. Aggie fans have, too. I just hope he does for the Browns what he did for the Aggies.
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The Colts also drafted Elway, remember, but he wouldn't play for them.
Sure do.
If I recall, Elway was a west coast guy that wouldn't play in Baltimore because it was too cold.
I wonder if anyone ever took the time to tell him about the weather in Denver before he signed?
Sure do.
If I recall, Elway was a west coast guy that wouldn't play in Baltimore because it was too cold.
I wonder if anyone ever took the time to tell him about the weather in Denver before he signed?
I heard it was because of who the Colts HC was at the time. Didn't like him or had a bad history with him or something to that effect?
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Gip, how am I putting too much emphasis on his height? He's the only qb under 6' taken in the first round in the Super Bowl era, even though he's only a quarter inch under 6'.
The most common characteristics for first round qb busts are big guys with great arm strength. Manziel is not that, though he could still be a bust.
Gip, how am I putting too much emphasis on his height? He's the only qb under 6' taken in the first round in the Super Bowl era, even though he's only a quarter inch under 6'.
The most common characteristics for first round qb busts are big guys with great arm strength. Manziel is not that, though he could still be a bust.
He will be a bust because Gip went to the Patriots-Browns game in 2000 and the Patriots lost. This means the Pats sucked even though they beat a great Colts team that year and had the foundation for their Super Bowl teams in place. Tom Brady won all their games and Super Bowls single-handedly just like Brian Hoyer has won all ours.
Johnny Manziel will be a bust because qbs picked in the first round don't always become good players.
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Mudfly, I'll comment on your last 3 statements.
#3) Mute point. He's not Luck and he's not 6'-4". Not even close on either.
This dumb statement is why I sound like a broken record. On your own post about top 10 college qb's Luck is 6th and Manziel is 4th. Not even close though, by your genius account. Johnny played 1 less year in college, too, and is still ranked higher.
#4) But you are....you told us the same thing 57 kazillion times
Explained above. Don't make illogical statements about him and I'll stop pointing out where they're wrong.
#5) I used to think that. Not so much anymore.....
Whatever. I realize Browns fans have suffered. Aggie fans have, too. I just hope he does for the Browns what he did for the Aggies.
Mudfly, I'll comment on your last 3 statements.
#3) Mute point. He's not Luck and he's not 6'-4". Not even close on either.
This dumb statement is why I sound like a broken record. On your own post about top 10 college qb's Luck is 6th and Manziel is 4th. Not even close though, by your genius account. Johnny played 1 less year in college, too, and is still ranked higher.
#4) But you are....you told us the same thing 57 kazillion times
Explained above. Don't make illogical statements about him and I'll stop pointing out where they're wrong.
#5) I used to think that. Not so much anymore.....
Whatever. I realize Browns fans have suffered. Aggie fans have, too. I just hope he does for the Browns what he did for the Aggies.
Off topic but something I always wonder about you "Aggie Browns fans". Are you really a Browns fan or just a Manziel / Aggie fan? In other words if he left tomorrow to play for Dallas is your new screen name Aggie Cowboy fan??
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Gip, how am I putting too much emphasis on his height? He's the only qb under 6' taken in the first round in the Super Bowl era, even though he's only a quarter inch under 6'.
The most common characteristics for first round qb busts are big guys with great arm strength. Manziel is not that, though he could still be a bust.
He will be a bust because Gip went to the Patriots-Browns game in 2000 and the Patriots lost. This means the Pats sucked even though they beat a great Colts team that year and had the foundation for their Super Bowl teams in place. Tom Brady won all their games and Super Bowls single-handedly just like Brian Hoyer has won all ours.
Johnny Manziel will be a bust because qbs picked in the first round don't always become good players.
Yowza your perception is something...idk what but something.He will be a bust because Gip went to the Patriots-Browns game in 2000 and the Patriots lost. This means the Pats sucked even though they beat a great Colts team that year and had the foundation for their Super Bowl teams in place. Tom Brady won all their games and Super Bowls single-handedly just like Brian Hoyer has won all ours.
Johnny Manziel will be a bust because qbs picked in the first round don't always become good players.
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