Jonathan Paul Manziel
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and taking it one further.....assuming there is only one obvious Elway, Manning or Luck every 10 years.....
Then it would 320 years for us each to get one.....and thats only with everyone getting an equal shot......
And the fact that INDY got the last 2, says we all dont get an equal shot.....
Think about it....
So, we could wait another 400 years....or.....go with the best we got.
The Colts also drafted Elway, remember, but he wouldn't play for them.
The Colts also drafted Elway, remember, but he wouldn't play for them.
Oh wow.....I completely forgot about that..........its a CONSPIRACY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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and taking it one further.....assuming there is only one obvious Elway, Manning or Luck every 10 years.....
Then it would 320 years for us each to get one.....and thats only with everyone getting an equal shot......
And the fact that INDY got the last 2, says we all dont get an equal shot.....
Think about it....
So, we could wait another 400 years....or.....go with the best we got.
The Colts also drafted Elway, remember, but he wouldn't play for them.
The Colts also drafted Elway, remember, but he wouldn't play for them.
Sure do.
If I recall, Elway was a west coast guy that wouldn't play in Baltimore because it was too cold.
I wonder if anyone ever took the time to tell him about the weather in Denver before he signed?
Two things that will define you: Your determination when you have nothing. Your attitude when you have everything. - Mike McCartney -
Mudfly, I've never said Johnny will ne a great pro. I've said I hope he becomes one, and I have a history of seeing him not fail against overwhelming odds.
My main point in my first post was that most first-round qb busts are big strong-armed guys who "look" like the right guy, but have huge overlooked flaws. Johnny in no way fits that description. He was taken so high because he is awesome at every other part of the game other than size. If he was 6' 4", he would be Andrew Luck who maybe parties too much.
And I'm not trying to be a broken record, I only talk Johnny on Johnny threads, and usually try to be a voice of reason, not a rah-rah guy.
#1) My main point in my first post was that most first-round qb busts are big strong-armed guys who "look" like the right guy, but have huge overlooked flaws.
#2) Johnny in no way fits that description. He was taken so high because he is awesome at every other part of the game other than size.
#3) If he was 6' 4", he would be Andrew Luck who maybe parties too much.
#4) And I'm not trying to be a broken record
#5) I .....usually try to be a voice of reason, not a rah-rah guy.
#1) The argument to that is most(if not all) of the successful QB's in this league ARE big strong armed guys, compared to the number of short running QB's who have made it.....and of course most of the failures look like prototype QB's, thats why they were drafted to begin with
#2) I understand your points. Again, it's just that none of us know, and repeating it over and over doesn't make it so. Yes, he has the "intangibles" that are hard to measure. He was a winner, had a never say die attitude, etc etc etc..... We get it(for the millionth time).... And the opposing argument is there have been many others just like that. McCoy & Tebow are PERFECT examples. Too small, limited skills, but always found the way to win games.
So, if I can understand WHY he was selected (has good intangibles), why is it so hard for you to understand WHY people have concerns(missing many tangibles)....it's 6 of one, half dozen of the other....for every positive you present, there is also an opposing negative someone else can present.....and no one will change their stand UNTIL he plays......do you not see that?....
#3) Mute point. He's not Luck and he's not 6'-4". Not even close on either.
#4) But you are....you told us the same thing 57 kazillion times
#5) I used to think that. Not so much anymore.....
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The Colts also drafted Elway, remember, but he wouldn't play for them.
Sure do.
If I recall, Elway was a west coast guy that wouldn't play in Baltimore because it was too cold.
I wonder if anyone ever took the time to tell him about the weather in Denver before he signed?
Sure do.
If I recall, Elway was a west coast guy that wouldn't play in Baltimore because it was too cold.
I wonder if anyone ever took the time to tell him about the weather in Denver before he signed?
I think Eli Manning did the same thing to SanDiego....told em NOT to pick him....then forced a trade when they did....
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Sure do.
If I recall, Elway was a west coast guy that wouldn't play in Baltimore because it was too cold.
I wonder if anyone ever took the time to tell him about the weather in Denver before he signed?
I think Eli Manning did the same thing to SanDiego....told em NOT to pick him....then forced a trade when they did....
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Gip, how am I putting too much emphasis on his height? He's the only qb under 6' taken in the first round in the Super Bowl era, even though he's only a quarter inch under 6'.
The most common characteristics for first round qb busts are big guys with great arm strength. Manziel is not that, though he could still be a bust.
Gip, how am I putting too much emphasis on his height? He's the only qb under 6' taken in the first round in the Super Bowl era, even though he's only a quarter inch under 6'.
The most common characteristics for first round qb busts are big guys with great arm strength. Manziel is not that, though he could still be a bust.
Well, he is like the ONLY QB on my original list to be under 6' to be drafted in the last like 50 years.....so obviously he is going to be in a class pretty much by himself when it comes to height.....and logically since there were many, many other taller QBs they will have had their share of busts. So I would remove that factor from the equation altogether.
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Mudfly, I'll comment on your last 3 statements.
#3) Mute point. He's not Luck and he's not 6'-4". Not even close on either.
This dumb statement is why I sound like a broken record. On your own post about top 10 college qb's Luck is 6th and Manziel is 4th. Not even close though, by your genius account. Johnny played 1 less year in college, too, and is still ranked higher.
#4) But you are....you told us the same thing 57 kazillion times
Explained above. Don't make illogical statements about him and I'll stop pointing out where they're wrong.
#5) I used to think that. Not so much anymore.....
Whatever. I realize Browns fans have suffered. Aggie fans have, too. I just hope he does for the Browns what he did for the Aggies.
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The Colts also drafted Elway, remember, but he wouldn't play for them.
Sure do.
If I recall, Elway was a west coast guy that wouldn't play in Baltimore because it was too cold.
I wonder if anyone ever took the time to tell him about the weather in Denver before he signed?
Sure do.
If I recall, Elway was a west coast guy that wouldn't play in Baltimore because it was too cold.
I wonder if anyone ever took the time to tell him about the weather in Denver before he signed?
I heard it was because of who the Colts HC was at the time. Didn't like him or had a bad history with him or something to that effect?
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Gip, how am I putting too much emphasis on his height? He's the only qb under 6' taken in the first round in the Super Bowl era, even though he's only a quarter inch under 6'.
The most common characteristics for first round qb busts are big guys with great arm strength. Manziel is not that, though he could still be a bust.
Gip, how am I putting too much emphasis on his height? He's the only qb under 6' taken in the first round in the Super Bowl era, even though he's only a quarter inch under 6'.
The most common characteristics for first round qb busts are big guys with great arm strength. Manziel is not that, though he could still be a bust.
He will be a bust because Gip went to the Patriots-Browns game in 2000 and the Patriots lost. This means the Pats sucked even though they beat a great Colts team that year and had the foundation for their Super Bowl teams in place. Tom Brady won all their games and Super Bowls single-handedly just like Brian Hoyer has won all ours.
Johnny Manziel will be a bust because qbs picked in the first round don't always become good players.
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Mudfly, I'll comment on your last 3 statements.
#3) Mute point. He's not Luck and he's not 6'-4". Not even close on either.
This dumb statement is why I sound like a broken record. On your own post about top 10 college qb's Luck is 6th and Manziel is 4th. Not even close though, by your genius account. Johnny played 1 less year in college, too, and is still ranked higher.
#4) But you are....you told us the same thing 57 kazillion times
Explained above. Don't make illogical statements about him and I'll stop pointing out where they're wrong.
#5) I used to think that. Not so much anymore.....
Whatever. I realize Browns fans have suffered. Aggie fans have, too. I just hope he does for the Browns what he did for the Aggies.
Mudfly, I'll comment on your last 3 statements.
#3) Mute point. He's not Luck and he's not 6'-4". Not even close on either.
This dumb statement is why I sound like a broken record. On your own post about top 10 college qb's Luck is 6th and Manziel is 4th. Not even close though, by your genius account. Johnny played 1 less year in college, too, and is still ranked higher.
#4) But you are....you told us the same thing 57 kazillion times
Explained above. Don't make illogical statements about him and I'll stop pointing out where they're wrong.
#5) I used to think that. Not so much anymore.....
Whatever. I realize Browns fans have suffered. Aggie fans have, too. I just hope he does for the Browns what he did for the Aggies.
Off topic but something I always wonder about you "Aggie Browns fans". Are you really a Browns fan or just a Manziel / Aggie fan? In other words if he left tomorrow to play for Dallas is your new screen name Aggie Cowboy fan??
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Gip, how am I putting too much emphasis on his height? He's the only qb under 6' taken in the first round in the Super Bowl era, even though he's only a quarter inch under 6'.
The most common characteristics for first round qb busts are big guys with great arm strength. Manziel is not that, though he could still be a bust.
He will be a bust because Gip went to the Patriots-Browns game in 2000 and the Patriots lost. This means the Pats sucked even though they beat a great Colts team that year and had the foundation for their Super Bowl teams in place. Tom Brady won all their games and Super Bowls single-handedly just like Brian Hoyer has won all ours.
Johnny Manziel will be a bust because qbs picked in the first round don't always become good players.
Yowza your perception is something...idk what but something.He will be a bust because Gip went to the Patriots-Browns game in 2000 and the Patriots lost. This means the Pats sucked even though they beat a great Colts team that year and had the foundation for their Super Bowl teams in place. Tom Brady won all their games and Super Bowls single-handedly just like Brian Hoyer has won all ours.
Johnny Manziel will be a bust because qbs picked in the first round don't always become good players.
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The Colts also drafted Elway, remember, but he wouldn't play for them.
Sure do.
If I recall, Elway was a west coast guy that wouldn't play in Baltimore because it was too cold.
I wonder if anyone ever took the time to tell him about the weather in Denver before he signed?
Sure do.
If I recall, Elway was a west coast guy that wouldn't play in Baltimore because it was too cold.
I wonder if anyone ever took the time to tell him about the weather in Denver before he signed?
That was his excuse. The fact was he did NOT want to play for the mess that was the Robert Irsay Colts organization at that time, plus, apparently his old man hated Frank Kush, who was the Colts coach. They had their run-ins in college where Jack Elway coached as San Jose St. and Kush coached Arizona St.....which was before AZ St. joined the Pac-10. The whole "I want to play where its warm was just a canard.
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Gip, how am I putting too much emphasis on his height? He's the only qb under 6' taken in the first round in the Super Bowl era, even though he's only a quarter inch under 6'.
The most common characteristics for first round qb busts are big guys with great arm strength. Manziel is not that, though he could still be a bust.
He will be a bust because Gip went to the Patriots-Browns game in 2000 and the Patriots lost. This means the Pats sucked even though they beat a great Colts team that year and had the foundation for their Super Bowl teams in place. Tom Brady won all their games and Super Bowls single-handedly just like Brian Hoyer has won all ours.
Johnny Manziel will be a bust because qbs picked in the first round don't always become good players.
He will be a bust because Gip went to the Patriots-Browns game in 2000 and the Patriots lost. This means the Pats sucked even though they beat a great Colts team that year and had the foundation for their Super Bowl teams in place. Tom Brady won all their games and Super Bowls single-handedly just like Brian Hoyer has won all ours.
Are you always this completely ignorant, or only that way when it comes to football? I don't know how you function in life.
Johnny Manziel will be a bust because qbs picked in the first round don't always become good players.
50% of them do not. That is correct. That is a mathematical fact....since 1936 (look at that thread). Whether JMZ will become part of that pct. is totally up to him
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EXACTLY GIP...
50%... Just like you said..
So why do you assume he will be on the bust side instead of the boom side?
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EXACTLY GIP...
50%... Just like you said..
So why do you assume he will be on the bust side instead of the boom side?
EXACTLY GIP...
50%... Just like you said..
So why do you assume he will be on the bust side instead of the boom side?
I dont think he's saying bust...
I think the premise is that no one should assume either....bust or boom.....and for the exact same reasons
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EXACTLY GIP...
50%... Just like you said..
So why do you assume he will be on the bust side instead of the boom side?
I dont think he's saying bust...
I think the premise is that no one should assume either....bust or boom.....and for the exact same reasons
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Sure do.
If I recall, Elway was a west coast guy that wouldn't play in Baltimore because it was too cold.
I wonder if anyone ever took the time to tell him about the weather in Denver before he signed?
That was his excuse. The fact was he did NOT want to play for the mess that was the Robert Irsay Colts organization at that time, plus, apparently his old man hated Frank Kush, who was the Colts coach. They had their run-ins in college where Jack Elway coached as San Jose St. and Kush coached Arizona St.....which was before AZ St. joined the Pac-10. The whole "I want to play where its warm was just a canard.
That was his excuse. The fact was he did NOT want to play for the mess that was the Robert Irsay Colts organization at that time, plus, apparently his old man hated Frank Kush, who was the Colts coach. They had their run-ins in college where Jack Elway coached as San Jose St. and Kush coached Arizona St.....which was before AZ St. joined the Pac-10. The whole "I want to play where its warm was just a canard.
I recall the presser that John Elway had, where a reporter asked him about signing with the Yankees. The reporter reminded young Elway that it also got cold in NY, then John responded with "but baseball is played when the weather is warm". The rift between Jack Elway & Kush does put things into a different perspective though.
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EXACTLY GIP...
50%... Just like you said..
So why do you assume he will be on the bust side instead of the boom side?
EXACTLY GIP...
50%... Just like you said..
So why do you assume he will be on the bust side instead of the boom side?
Because the # of qbs under 6' 2' who went on to have HOF careers is damn short. Look it up PGL. Maybe you don't remember all the hoopla about RG III's height- or lack of. Manziel is even shorter. Again- I'm not saying Manziel will bust- but it was, and is a factor in his long term success in the NFL.
Another factor in his long term success is if JFF has learned he can't throw passes of his back foot into a triple covered Mike Evans for jump balls either. I'm sure Shanny has told him that crap won't fly in the NFL. You might have forgotten that little detail- I haven't. Playbook? You talking PLAYBOOK????
Problem I have with the Manzealots is they're (the more blinded ones at least) putting JFF in the Andrew Luck category of consensus #1 overall. Sure some guys thought he should be the #1 qb off the board- a bunch of others gave him a third round grade- and quite justifiably, I might add.
Oh- I'll pull a Shepsterism on ya- go ask him if he now wants to flip flop on the issue. Once upon a time he posited one of the best predictors of NFL success was the # of college starts a qb had. Andrew Luck, pass. JFF flunk.
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