All of us Hoyer backers should admit one thing...
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If Hoyer can stop throwing off balance, he'll be fine.
He's smart as all get out, he can see that, we'll see
if he can change all that for the better vs buffalo.
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But, and I hope you realize I'm kind of being the devil's advocate here, what has Brian Hoyer shown anyone in the last years that any of those other quarterbacks didn't show? Yes this season he has been the quarterback of a winning team but not because of any of his own heroics. Yes nice series of downs last week but as we should recall a terrible series a few weeks ago to lose the game. I'm just saying how long does a quarterback get before you are sure he doesn't have the head or the talent for the job?Guys... not every intervention works...
Time to let Kevin go.
We tried...
Not seeing Hoyer's best lately... not even sure we have seen it this year. Atop any knee hang over he had a footwork issue emerge. I suspect a reason, but don't for sure. Get it right and Hoyer's best will return. Stay tuned...
Frye clearly did not have a head for the game. Tebow did not have the talent.
McCoy... I honestly believe he has just, finally recovered from his bowl game nerve damage.
WSS
But, and I hope you realize I'm kind of being the devil's advocate here, what has Brian Hoyer shown anyone in the last years that any of those other quarterbacks didn't show? Yes this season he has been the quarterback of a winning team but not because of any of his own heroics. Yes nice series of downs last week but as we should recall a terrible series a few weeks ago to lose the game. I'm just saying how long does a quarterback get before you are sure he doesn't have the head or the talent for the job?
Devil's Advocate? Really? I'd never do something like that...
First, agree with the underlined completely. Moreover I think that is exactly the QB Pettine wants... non-heroic. A QB that will not cost us a win. I am not sure what "few games ago" game you reference. Both games in which Hoyer has played badly enough to cost us a win ('13 Vikes and '14 ATL), he salvaged with game-winning drives.
Aside: How many "hero" QBs are playing today?
As for length of a QB evaluation... I don't think there's a set answer, but I think in general it takes longer for fans to recognize the presence, or absence, of head talent. Especially when the lack of head talent is masked by physical skill...
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B already answered that- I know you're visiting from the other board, I know your stance, so I'll try to be civil. Luck is a once in a decade talent like Elway and Manning. Nuff said there. Wilson had the benefit of the best defense since the Super Bowl Ravens to bail him out. RG Knee and Newton are starting to look like one year flash in the pans- hey Derek Anderson had one great year too, no? Washington's trade for Griffin will go down as one of the 3 worst in NFL history- and you can take that to the bank. BTW, Griffin and Manziel do share a trait- lack of accountability for their actions.
You ever see that guys jersey with the 21 Browns qbs since 1999 on the back? Yeah, we traded up to get Quinn too- so tell me how that worked out. So excuse me if I'll believe Manziel is the real deal when I see it.
You may believe putting Manziel in now is a good idea- I say that's nuts. You know who else wans't very good and won a Super Bowl? Trent Dilfer- his career stats mirror Hoyer's. Doug Williams wasn't very good either. Jim McMahon, Jeff Hostetler. I'm going to save myself some time typing and let you peruse the list of lousy quarterbacks that just happened to be good enough to play in a Super Bowl.
http://www.profootballhof.com/history/release.aspx?release_id=97 You've just joined the Fan Boy Club with that statement.
Exactly Joe Thomas and the rest of the team are behind Hoyer- they see JFF every day in practice hmmm.
I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. I'm sure Thomas would be behind Manziel if Hoyer got hurt.
B already answered that- I know you're visiting from the other board, I know your stance, so I'll try to be civil. Luck is a once in a decade talent like Elway and Manning. Nuff said there. Wilson had the benefit of the best defense since the Super Bowl Ravens to bail him out. RG Knee and Newton are starting to look like one year flash in the pans- hey Derek Anderson had one great year too, no? Washington's trade for Griffin will go down as one of the 3 worst in NFL history- and you can take that to the bank. BTW, Griffin and Manziel do share a trait- lack of accountability for their actions.
You ever see that guys jersey with the 21 Browns qbs since 1999 on the back? Yeah, we traded up to get Quinn too- so tell me how that worked out. So excuse me if I'll believe Manziel is the real deal when I see it.
You may believe putting Manziel in now is a good idea- I say that's nuts. You know who else wans't very good and won a Super Bowl? Trent Dilfer- his career stats mirror Hoyer's. Doug Williams wasn't very good either. Jim McMahon, Jeff Hostetler. I'm going to save myself some time typing and let you peruse the list of lousy quarterbacks that just happened to be good enough to play in a Super Bowl.
http://www.profootballhof.com/history/release.aspx?release_id=97 You've just joined the Fan Boy Club with that statement. You want to share some Manziel love there's another Forum out there that will welcome you with open arms- PM Playground Legend or me, and we'll point you in the right direction.
Exactly Joe Thomas and the rest of the team are behind Hoyer- they see JFF every day in practice hmmm.
I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. Just because they are behind Hoyer doesn't mean they wouldn't be behind Manziel if Hoyer got injured. The fact is Manziel doesn't get the reps in practice that Hoyer gets and no matter how shitty Hoyer plays in practice and/or how good Manziel plays in practice you can't bench a qb 11 games into a playoff run season.
I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. Just because they are behind Hoyer doesn't mean they wouldn't be behind Manziel if Hoyer got injured. The fact is Manziel doesn't get the reps in practice that Hoyer gets and no matter how shitty Hoyer plays in practice and/or how good Manziel plays in practice you can't bench a qb 11 games into a playoff run season.
Of course Joe and the rest of the team would rally around Manziel- just like the D will rally around Leonard, now that Gipson is out.
You've made my points for me- the glaring reasons why the Manzelots are smoking something if they think tossing JFF out there now is a good idea just because Hoyer has played poorly in the last couple of games.
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Well we're playing Buffalo this week right? That's the #4 defense in the nation I believe...it's gonna be a test, especially on that O line. It might even be more of one than Houston was cause it was Clowneys 1st game back and he really isn't in the swing of things. Mario Williams and Marcell Dareus are absolutely in the swing of things...got like 20 sacks between em this year. They need to run the ball 30 times to calm those fuckers down. Hoyer could have a bad game that isn't necessarily his fault.
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Honestly though..
what is the level of bad Hoyer would have to play in order for you guys to agree he should be pulled for Johnny.
In all seriousness.. in your honest opinons, what would Hoyer have to do in order for you to approve a change to JFF
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Honestly though..
what is the level of bad Hoyer would have to play in order for you guys to agree he should be pulled for Johnny.
In all seriousness.. in your honest opinons, what would Hoyer have to do in order for you to approve a change to JFF
Honestly though..
what is the level of bad Hoyer would have to play in order for you guys to agree he should be pulled for Johnny.
In all seriousness.. in your honest opinons, what would Hoyer have to do in order for you to approve a change to JFF
My serious and honest opinion is that he would have to get beat out next year to be pulled for Johnny(as the regular starter).
I dont see any acceptable reason to change QB's in the middle of a playoff race. Continuity is everything.
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Honestly though..
what is the level of bad Hoyer would have to play in order for you guys to agree he should be pulled for Johnny.
In all seriousness.. in your honest opinons, what would Hoyer have to do in order for you to approve a change to JFF
Honestly though..
what is the level of bad Hoyer would have to play in order for you guys to agree he should be pulled for Johnny.
In all seriousness.. in your honest opinons, what would Hoyer have to do in order for you to approve a change to JFF
He'd have to stop winning really. If he played like he has lately before the bye and we were 1-2 I wouldn't be surprised if he got pulled then. But at 7-4 right in the thick of it, team is behind him, coaches still behind him you don't make the move.
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Honestly though..
what is the level of bad Hoyer would have to play in order for you guys to agree he should be pulled for Johnny.
In all seriousness.. in your honest opinons, what would Hoyer have to do in order for you to approve a change to JFF
Honestly though..
what is the level of bad Hoyer would have to play in order for you guys to agree he should be pulled for Johnny.
In all seriousness.. in your honest opinions, what would Hoyer have to do in order for you to approve a change to JFF
Honestly? 0-3 in the next three games, with blowout losses in all of them. Sorry, but you really have to tone down the JFF man-crush. Bortles, Carr, & Bridgey- a collective 6-27. Your dreamboat JFF is going to ride in on his white horse (and has been pointed out getting scout team reps) and do a whole lot better against the rest of the schedule? Dream on.
Personally, I'd put the odds at 50\50 of Manziel getting the starting nod even if the Browns are 7-8 going into the Ravens game.
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VesnaKociper said:
The Browns are 7-4 with Hoyer. For the love of naked midgets do you even realize how little NFL experience this guy has?
Get over it, he brought the team back and got an important win. Hoyer is a winner and will get better each week. He is the best QB the Browns have had since returning in 1999. Give it a rest already and take the time to smell the 7-4 roses.
Imagine. Ghoolie, the voice of reason......and he is right.
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maybe no one wants to answer you because you're a dolt.
You see.. this is why this place is just ignorant. Animals throwing crap.
I was asking legitimate questiones mainly aimed at Gip.
He is looking at everything Johnny from a glass half empty perspective instead of a glass half full perspective.. even after he admitted it could go either way.
So I was asking what were the reasons behind his glass half empty perspective.
Especially since he is our first round draft pick we TRADED UP to get?
Wouldnt we WANT him to be everything he showed he could be?
Wouldnt we be inclined to see the glass half full?
You see.. this is why this place is just ignorant. Animals throwing crap.
Wouldnt we WANT (JM) to be everything he showed he could be?
Wouldnt we be inclined to see the glass half full?
No... You have to set your inclinations aside. We need to see the glass for what it is. It's called objectivity.
Not easy for we mere fans...
I would rather be a JM Fag then a Browns fan so desperate for a winning season they are too afraid to change anything.
Talk about your false choices...
I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. I'm sure Thomas would be behind Manziel if Hoyer got hurt.
I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. Just because they are behind Hoyer doesn't mean they wouldn't be behind Manziel if Hoyer got injured. The fact is Manziel doesn't get the reps in practice that Hoyer gets and no matter how shitty Hoyer plays in practice and/or how good Manziel plays in practice you can't bench a qb 11 games into a playoff run season.
Kinda lost your way in a quote button double click???
Anyway... I would hope the entire team got behind whomever was their starter. It's called being a Pro.
But that's not the question. The question is "Given the choice which QB would the team rather have lead them?" It's a question to which we will never know the answer.
Doesn't mean we can't speculate...
I suspect you'd see a demographic microcosm of this forum with younger players going for the flashy new model and older vets the older vet...
not that the Browns have any vets as old as ones around here...
excepting maybe McQuistan...
who looked really old against JAX.
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I say we stay with Hoyer as long as he is winning, His subpar play has been just good enough to get by shitty teams. His only quality wins have been against Cincy and Pitt. The rest of his wins were against garbage teams that we should have blown out. Our last 4 out of 5 are quality teams. If Hoyer's play continues to deteriorate, Im seeing a possible 8-8. May need to make a switch once we are mathematically eliminated.
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yeah the browns would have to hit the shitter pretty good and just tank the way the rest of the season for a change to be made this year. i really doubt we'd go that far if we were to make it to the playoffs so if we are losing out throw JF in the last game, let him run around for awhile and let the fans see how bad he really is and VOILA.......... no more QB controversy. and no more JF fags for next year.
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The Browns are 7-4 with Hoyer. For the love of naked midgets do you even realize how little NFL experience this guy has?
Get over it, he brought the team back and got an important win. Hoyer is a winner and will get better each week. He is the best QB the Browns have had since returning in 1999. Give it a rest already and take the time to smell the 7-4 roses. Ghoolie
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Nailed it.
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Getting better each week? Are you actually watching? He has been getting worse with each passing week. He's been winning so it overshadows his shit ty play. All the reason to stay with him.
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Getting better each week? Are you actually watching? He has been getting worse with each passing week. He's been winning so it overshadows his shit ty play. All the reason to stay with him.
Getting better each week? Are you actually watching? He has been getting worse with each passing week. He's been winning so it overshadows his shit ty play. All the reason to stay with him.
From my O-line Review this week... just for you, TD...
Weekly Special Request: From me: Break Down Hoyer's Footwork...
Don't jump out of your chair and down my throat, but I think ATL was Hoyer's best game in a while... mechanically. It felt that way watching the game and damned if it doesn't seem true upon further review. I hedge only because I have not formerly broken down BH's game before.
Thus week I added a "Hoyer footwork note" to every pass play. On every drop back pass I noted the step relationship of BH's feet at release and the "authority" of the pass. For the step I use analog clock dial, e.g., 12:00 being straight ahead and 09:00 being a complete bail.
On roll outs Brian always ended up jumping into the air. Especially on plays where he is running parallel to or away from the LOS. On these I noted last foot on the ground at release as it does vary. The one, late "scramble" when he was moving towards the LOS he strode forward as one would expect.
For all plays I rated "throw authority": a check (C ) meant a tight, "authoritative" spiral on a good line; an 'O' meant good pass but with noticeably less zip; and 'X' meant weak, wobbler. And, of course, I also noted throw result.
Here's the breakdown:
Dropbacks: Total 36
12-6 w/ 4C&2O; 1130-12 w/ 9C&2O&1X; 11-6 w/ 5C&1X;
1030-3 w/ 2C&1O; 10-2 w/ 2O; 09-7 w/ 2C&1O&4X
Of the 24 throws striding to 1100 or later, Brian threw 18 tight balls
, 4 OKs (O) and 2 weaklings (X).For the 18 C's he was 13/18. For the 4 O's he was 1/4 w/ 1INT. For the 2 X's he was 0/2.
Of the 12 throws when he "stepped in the bucket" (remember Vic Davalillo?) or strode to 1030 or earlier, he went 6/12 w/ 4C (4/4), 4O (2/4), & 4X (0/4 w/2 INT).
Rolls/Flushed runs: Total 6
Roll Left: RightFoot- 1C, LeftFoot- 1O ; MoveUp: RF- 1C, LF- none
Roll Right: RF- 2C, LF- 1X
Small sample size, but when throwing off his right ("back") foot Brian threw 4 quality passes in 4 attempts. The results of these 4 were 4 completions for +15, +5, +7 and +24 yards. Off his left ("Front") foot he threw 1 C, completed for 9, and 1 O, a weak, high incompletion in Gordo's direction.
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