Jonathan Paul Manziel
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I was 15 when the Browns beat the Baltimore Colts 27-0 in 1964. Having been a diehard Browns fan for 65 years I'm behind any man that is QB for the Cleveland Browns. I'm so sick of these Anti-Manziel posts. Will he be a bust or HOF QB? No one will know until he plays. And I love the home Town kid Hoyer but if anyone thinks he is a franchise QB and will lead this team to the play-offs your going to be sadly mistaken. His production is falling off week by week. Only the stupidity of Atlanta's HC with clock management saved us from a loss to a sub 500 team. No way the Browns are going to pay Hoyer what he thinks he's worth. Big desions await the Browns front office. If we lose to the Bills I would play Manziel the rest of the season to atleast find out what you have before the 2015 draft. JMHO.
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He can't control people's perceptions, and he won't let that change his lifestyle. He is who he is, on the field and off.
Believe it or not, he is likeable and hardworking, but you rarely hear about that.
He can't control people's perceptions, and he won't let that change his lifestyle. He is who he is, on the field and off.
Believe it or not, he is likeable and hardworking, but you rarely hear about that.
Yes, he can control perceptions by controlling the circumstances he puts himself in. If that means he has to sacrifice a little of who he is, what he chooses to do, then so be it.
I believe he "works hard" at a game... a pastime, just like I work hard at my hobbies. But nothing I put into a hobby has ever come close to the "hard work" I put into my profession, my "job". Nothing, not even the year I "devoted" to my golf game when I took my stroke index from 18.1 to 9.9, ever came close to working hard at work.
I'm talking about since he was a brown. But I would expect you to bring that up since its 2 and a half years ago. Whatever, it proves my point even more. Even with this arrest, he went on to have a great two years at A&M.
Off-field pictures, trips to Vegas, etc, will have NOTHIMG to do with his success or failure in the NFL.
I am glad I did not fail you. And know that you did not fail me. For "I knew" that in your world, referring to JM's on-field exploits at A&M would be perfectly acceptable to any discussion, whereas his off-field would not be. Why is that?
What I did not expect, however, is that you would demonstrate both in a single sentence now underlined for posterity. Well done...
See this is the kind of stuff im talking about "exactly why I did not want to draft him high and still believe the odds of his success at the Pro level are not good."... what is that?
An opinion?
Johnny has the same odds as everyone else. Actaully.. his odds are better than most others due to his draft vstatus.. as there are more successful QBs drafted in the first round than any other round... Period.
Do you understand how odds work?
By "Draft status" (I assume the 'v' was a typo) you seem to be referring to JM being a first rounder. I think Gip has shown time and again that the chances of a first rounder "making it" are indeed the highest overall at around 50/50, but vary very little with position within the first round... a good thing for JM since we was drafted #22. So the odds are that 1 in 2 first rounders will make it.
In 2014 there were 3 QBs taken in the first round, Bortles, Manziel, and Bridgewater. As more of them show promise in their rookie seasons, the odds that the remaining #1's will make it drop.
Luckily for you Carr just missed inclusion at 36th overall or I think from an odds perspective, it would be all over. As it is, however, it's going to be a while before we see whether the top of the 2014 QB Class exceeds or underperforms the odds.
Also to addres your Brian Hoyer comment.. c'mon.. do you really think if Brian Hoyer wasnt from Cleveland that he wouldnt have been pulled by now? Honestly?
Absolutely... hand to your preferred deity... I think where BH was born and raised has nothing to do with him still starting... and I have Charlie Frye to prove it... and Charlie did not even have a hotshot, Heisman baby sitting behind him.
Do you really think that if JM was ready, that BH's performance to date would have kept JM on the sideline this long? Be honest...
He never would have had had as much fan support if he wasnt from here... it has been made a very big deal. Yes his play backed it up.. but it wouldve been much EASIER for the staff to make a change if he wasnt.
First, Why would a staff make a change if "his play back(s)" up his starting? Shouldn't that alone rule out a starter change?
Second, are you sure that Hoyer's homie pressure was greater than Manziel's Star power at:
- Pre-season game 3?
- season start?
- Week 5 coming out of the bye at 1-2?
- Week 7, after JAX?
Third, name one other move that this staff has made that was dictated, or even influenced, by fan pressure.
I'm not in NE Ohio to guage the homer talk first hand. I get that it is mentioned in every article, but to me as a colorful sideline, not job-insuring hype. That you and other JM supporters raise it as a determining factor simply indicate, IMO, that you have to rationalize JM's continued benching... and that is all you have.
weaknesses?
Yes... immaturity and his accompanying lack of self-discipline...
Johnny as said by the coaching staff is the epitome of a profesisonal in building. Hes in the playbook.. comes in early stays late gets extra reps in with the WRs.. he's done all that. o Im not sure where you are getting this from?
I remember those comments, but when was the last time you saw them? I ask because I have not in a while. What I have seen is that he is still, surprisingly, not ready to play. It was one of the "sources inside the Browns" things, so I take it with a grain of salt, but it better fits the circumstances, as I see them, than your Hometown theory.
The only difference between him and Hoyer is Brian has a wife.. Johnny doesnt.. so when Johnny is out on the town.. Brian is home watching movies with his wife.
How does these 2 things affect football? Do you think Brian is at home breaking down film with his wife.. going over X's and O's? get real.. they all have free time.. just because Johnny spends his out and about doesnt make him any less of a professional
How much would you like to bet that he hasn't watched game film with his wife?
Home resting, taking care of your body vs. partying until the wee hours night before the night before a game? No difference? No "impact"?
Guess not... if you're not the starter...
I was 15 when the Browns beat the Baltimore Colts 27-0 in 1964. Having been a diehard Browns fan for 65 years I'm behind any man that is QB for the Cleveland Browns. I'm so sick of these Anti-Manziel posts. Will he be a bust or HOF QB? No one will know until he plays. And I love the home Town kid Hoyer but if anyone thinks he is a franchise QB and will lead this team to the play-offs your going to be sadly mistaken. His production is falling off week by week. Only the stupidity of Atlanta's HC with clock management saved us from a loss to a sub 500 team. No way the Browns are going to pay Hoyer what he thinks he's worth. Big desions await the Browns front office. If we lose to the Bills I would play Manziel the rest of the season to atleast find out what you have before the 2015 draft. JMHO.
Cool... another member that is older than I am... albeit only slightly.
Welcome to the Hoyer train...
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Not recklessness, fearlessness. I admit, one can turn into the other, but I wouldn't call him reckless. He May always have such terrible off-field "incidents" as:
1. Going to cavs games and hanging out with Lebron.
2. Using his own money to go to places like Vegas.
3. Having pictures taken of him at those places.
4. Trying to get into his home when accosted by someone who recognizes him.
These horrible "incidents" will have no bearing on his success or failure.
But I'm sure the rest of the league is crying in their glasses of tea while reading the Bible when they hear about these terrible "incidents" Johnny is involved in.
Not recklessness, fearlessness. I admit, one can turn into the other, but I wouldn't call him reckless. He May always have such terrible off-field "incidents" as:
1. Going to cavs games and hanging out with Lebron.
2. Using his own money to go to places like Vegas.
3. Having pictures taken of him at those places.
4. Trying to get into his home when accosted by someone who recognizes him.
These horrible "incidents" will have no bearing on his success or failure.
But I'm sure the rest of the league is crying in their glasses of tea while reading the Bible when they hear about these terrible "incidents" Johnny is involved in.
[/quote
1. Good PR
2. Using his own money rolled up to snort coke,...... BAD PR
3. Pictures with Bebes (a total douchebag) BAD PR
4. I'm sure Johnny and Mommy were just getting in from midnight mass at 2:30 am.
It's not any one "incident" that is so bad , but the culmination of incidents that display his reckless nature that gives me caution.
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Whatever man....you keep saying "you guys", as if Im beating down on Johnny. ....stop with the man love already...
Haha...Im no troll....but I could say the same about you, considering you've made the same post/list 10, 000 times....
Listen, my stance all along has been "let's wait and see"....
Most of us(me, at least) only post in these threads because YOU refuse to "wait and see" and, instead, go on and on and on and on about JFF, his college game and how great he is....blah blah blah.....(are you related to Stockton??)
Cant you see that???....I dont hate JFF. I hate all the NON STOP Johnny man love posts....
Figure it out....
Cant you see that???....I dont hate JFF. I hate all the NON STOP Johnny man love posts....
Figure it out....
LOL! I guess I could say the same thing about all the NON STOP JF sucks posts before he's ever played even 5 minutes of regular season football. You can't deny that there is a lot of that here as well.
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Tour2ma said:
" I am glad I did not fail you. And know that you did not fail me. For "I knew" that in your world, referring to JM's on-field exploits at A&M would be perfectly acceptable to any discussion, whereas his off-field would not be. Why is that?"
I never said this. In fact, it is idiots like you who want to hear nothing about his college years, because "college doesn't matter". So you start calling things incidents from the last 8 months which are all bullshit-johnny did nothing wrong. I point this out and you pull the arrest from before he played a single down as an aggie out of your ass. Pathetic. I've never avoided his off-field stuff, just pointed out that most of the issues are nothing but him being popular. His arrest was definitely serious, it almost got him kicked out. But that is the dumbest thing to point out as an "issue", it has nothing to do with anything relevant today. But you have to grasp at something, so I shouldn't be surprised.
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We've known this since may 8th....George C said:
So now his "bodyguard" is in jail for DWI while driving Manziels car.
Sorry guys, but you now own the Tiny Canadian Pussy Douche of the NFL.
The guy just wreaks of something dirty.
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George C said:
So now his "bodyguard" is in jail for DWI while driving Manziels car.
Sorry guys, but you now own the Tiny Canadian Pussy Douche of the NFL.
The guy just wreaks of something dirty.
So with a thread going titled "The Days of the Running QBs are Over", just what do you do with this douche?
Maybe Dan Snyder will give us some picks for him?
Or Jerry Jones? DId you see Romo Thursday? He's either hurt bad or he has lost all his arm strength. He was floating passes all day. Colt McCoy thought Romo had a noodle arm
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George C said:
So now his "bodyguard" is in jail for DWI while driving Manziels car.
Sorry guys, but you now own the Tiny Canadian Pussy Douche of the NFL.
The guy just wreaks of something dirty.
So with a thread going titled "The Days of the Running QBs are Over", just what do you do with this douche?
Hey na hey na there bub.
I expect the driver of my future franchise QB to be as fucked up as he us. It's all part of the plan.
All the good players have an element of "dirty" in them.
Wreck the league. Wreck the cars. Get it?
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George C said:
So now his "bodyguard" is in jail for DWI while driving Manziels car.
Sorry guys, but you now own the Tiny Canadian Pussy Douche of the NFL.
The guy just wreaks of something dirty.
So with a thread going titled "The Days of the Running QBs are Over", just what do you do with this douche?
Manziel wasn't in the car ... who cares?
None of this matters.
Only thing that matters is 1. can he play and 2. can he lead, and we won't know until he gets thrown into an NFL game with live bullets.
Zombo
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Tour2ma said:
" I am glad I did not fail you. And know that you did not fail me. For "I knew" that in your world, referring to JM's on-field exploits at A&M would be perfectly acceptable to any discussion, whereas his off-field would not be. Why is that?"
I never said this. In fact, it is idiots like you who want to hear nothing about his college years, because "college doesn't matter". So you start calling things incidents from the last 8 months which are all bullshit-johnny did nothing wrong. I point this out and you pull the arrest from before he played a single down as an aggie out of your ass. Pathetic. I've never avoided his off-field stuff, just pointed out that most of the issues are nothing but him being popular. His arrest was definitely serious, it almost got him kicked out. But that is the dumbest thing to point out as an "issue", it has nothing to do with anything relevant today. But you have to grasp at something, so I shouldn't be surprised.
Tour2ma said:
" I am glad I did not fail you. And know that you did not fail me. For "I knew" that in your world, referring to JM's on-field exploits at A&M would be perfectly acceptable to any discussion, whereas his off-field would not be. Why is that?"
I never said this. In fact, it is idiots like you who want to hear nothing about his college years, because "college doesn't matter". So you start calling things incidents from the last 8 months which are all bullshit-johnny did nothing wrong. I point this out and you pull the arrest from before he played a single down as an aggie out of your ass. Pathetic. I've never avoided his off-field stuff, just pointed out that most of the issues are nothing but him being popular. His arrest was definitely serious, it almost got him kicked out. But that is the dumbest thing to point out as an "issue", it has nothing to do with anything relevant today. But you have to grasp at something, so I shouldn't be surprised.
Sorry- if all the off field stuff since he's been drafted that have been pointed out aren't issues- you're wrong. If you think Manziel is higher profile than Andrew Luck- wrong again. Manziel is putting himself in situations that are going to get plastered all over Instagram & TMZ. He may not care, but you can damn bet Pettine does.
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Hoorta is a gordon cheerleader so apparently breaking actual rules that require mandatory league suspensions and driving drunk is ok, but having a fake id in college, omg.
and before he does the, johnny is a a qb thing. if your morals and values waiver that easily, you don't have any. You don't work for the Browns; even if you did holding manziel to a different standard than you hold gordon to is ridiculous.
the fact is youre just hoping to be proven right about some pre-draft prediction you made based on not liking johnny for some weird personal reason.
you're a cliche.
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Hoorta is a gordon cheerleader so apparently breaking actual rules that require mandatory league suspensions and driving drunk is ok, but having a fake id in college, omg.
and before he does the, johnny is a a qb thing. if your morals and values waiver that easily, you don't have any. You don't work for the Browns; even if you did holding manziel to a different standard than you hold gordon to is ridiculous.
the fact is youre just hoping to be proven right about some pre-draft prediction you made based on not liking johnny for some weird personal reason.
you're a cliche.
Hoorta is a gordon cheerleader so apparently breaking actual rules that require mandatory league suspensions and driving drunk is ok, but having a fake id in college, omg.
and before he does the, johnny is a a qb thing. if your morals and values waiver that easily, you don't have any. You don't work for the Browns; even if you did holding manziel to a different standard than you hold gordon to is ridiculous.
the fact is youre just hoping to be proven right about some pre-draft prediction you made based on not liking johnny for some weird personal reason.
you're a cliche.
I could give a rat if I'm proven right or wrong. My track record is pretty far on the proven right though. And when I'm wrong, I'm the first to admit it.
Har har regarding Gordon. Get back to me when Manziel leads the league in passing yards, and makes the Pro Bowl. As of right now, he hasn't done jack shit in the NFL.I'll cut him as much slack as Gordon when he does.
True- I didn't want Manziel- because he'd be a distraction, among other things. Guess what? He's a distraction. FYI- there's a shit ton of people that don't like Manziel for the same reason I don't particularly care for him- as a person. Not the kind of guy I'd want to hang out with. There's a difference between liking a football player, and liking the person. Isn't about my personal opinion anymore- I can't kick Manziel off the team- and I have to hope he does well.
This had zero, zilch, nada to do with the fake JFF ID. I could care less about it. I do care about his conduct after he got drafted by the Browns however. F**cking liar. I'm all into football. sure. However, I (and some others) still think he's still got some growing up to do. Maybe he'd actually be starting if he had been in Berea working out instead of hanging out with Bieb-er.
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I'm talking about since he was a brown. But I would expect you to bring that up since its 2 and a half years ago. Whatever, it proves my point even more. Even with this arrest, he went on to have a great two years at A&M.
Off-field pictures, trips to Vegas, etc, will have NOTHIMG to do with his success or failure in the NFL.
Where could I ever have gotten the idea his college incidents were off limits?
I'm talking about since he was a brown. But I would expect you to bring that up since its 2 and a half years ago.
Moving on... to wrapping up...
Tour2ma said:
" I am glad I did not fail you. And know that you did not fail me. For "I knew" that in your world, referring to JM's on-field exploits at A&M would be perfectly acceptable to any discussion, whereas his off-field would not be. Why is that?"
I never said this. In fact, it is idiots like you who want to hear nothing about his college years, because "college doesn't matter". So you start calling things incidents from the last 8 months which are all bullshit-johnny did nothing wrong. I point this out and you pull the arrest from before he played a single down as an aggie out of your ass. Pathetic. I've never avoided his off-field stuff, just pointed out that most of the issues are nothing but him being popular. His arrest was definitely serious, it almost got him kicked out. But that is the dumbest thing to point out as an "issue", it has nothing to do with anything relevant today. But you have to grasp at something, so I shouldn't be surprised.
And I would say the same... you have to grasp at his stats, his "Heisman" and his "star power". Clearly we're talking past each other and since now you have begun name calling, it's time to move on.
For the record... I watched a great deal of JM in college. Very exciting player... but one who's game I thought had a low probability of translating well to the NFL. For me it's not the stats, it's how he generated them.
BION, however, he's ours now. If and when he gets his chance, I'll be pulling for the Browns... same as I have with Hoyer, Campbell, Wheezy, Colt, Brady, DA, Charlie, Trent, Jeff, Holcomb, and, of course, Timmah.
But Hoyer's run is not yet over... hopefully not by a long-shot. Does that make me a Hoyer fan? A JM "hater"? No... and here's why.
I've said all along that the longer Hoyer starts, the more we are winning. Because the only way Hoyer was ever going to keep his job was by the team winning.
Go Browns...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
George C said:
So now his "bodyguard" is in jail for DWI while driving Manziels car.
Sorry guys, but you now own the Tiny Canadian Pussy Douche of the NFL.
The guy just wreaks of something dirty.
So with a thread going titled "The Days of the Running QBs are Over", just what do you do with this douche?
With all the holes in JM's statement, the Driver is the least of my concerns. Waiting on the video...
As for what we do... hope for Wilson II to emerge.
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I thought george was a buffalo fan, No? If so why the fuck do you care about Johnny?
WSS
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So the same guy involved in the fight has now been caught with a DUI exactly one week right down to the time of morning it happened later. At least it lends itself to the idea the BOTH the guys fighting were drunk. I don't know if that says anything about Johnny, but it at least pokes some holes in the idea that only the "fan" was making drunken decisions.
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i know manziel wasn't involved with this DUI situation but what i don't understand is why these guys (any football player/celebs etc.) don't get everything they need to party with i.e. women, drugs, guns whatever and go to their mansion and lock the fucking door. the need to show your face and be TMZed at 2:30 in the fucking morning is beyond all comprehension. especially when you know your employer frowns on such behavior.
needs to cut ties with that bodyguard.
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Hoorta is a gordon cheerleader so apparently breaking actual rules that require mandatory league suspensions and driving drunk is ok, but having a fake id in college, omg.
and before he does the, johnny is a a qb thing. if your morals and values waiver that easily, you don't have any. You don't work for the Browns; even if you did holding manziel to a different standard than you hold gordon to is ridiculous.
the fact is youre just hoping to be proven right about some pre-draft prediction you made based on not liking johnny for some weird personal reason.
you're a cliche.
I could give a rat if I'm proven right or wrong. My track record is pretty far on the proven right though. And when I'm wrong, I'm the first to admit it.
Har har regarding Gordon. Get back to me when Manziel leads the league in passing yards, and makes the Pro Bowl. As of right now, he hasn't done jack shit in the NFL.I'll cut him as much slack as Gordon when he does.
True- I didn't want Manziel- because he'd be a distraction, among other things. Guess what? He's a distraction. FYI- there's a shit ton of people that don't like Manziel for the same reason I don't particularly care for him- as a person. Not the kind of guy I'd want to hang out with. There's a difference between liking a football player, and liking the person. Isn't about my personal opinion anymore- I can't kick Manziel off the team- and I have to hope he does well.
This had zero, zilch, nada to do with the fake JFF ID. I could care less about it. I do care about his conduct after he got drafted by the Browns however. F**cking liar. I'm all into football. sure. However, I (and some others) still think he's still got some growing up to do. Maybe he'd actually be starting if he had been in Berea working out instead of hanging out with Bieb-er.
I could give a rat if I'm proven right or wrong. My track record is pretty far on the proven right though. And when I'm wrong, I'm the first to admit it.
Har har regarding Gordon. Get back to me when Manziel leads the league in passing yards, and makes the Pro Bowl. As of right now, he hasn't done jack shit in the NFL.I'll cut him as much slack as Gordon when he does.
True- I didn't want Manziel- because he'd be a distraction, among other things. Guess what? He's a distraction. FYI- there's a shit ton of people that don't like Manziel for the same reason I don't particularly care for him- as a person. Not the kind of guy I'd want to hang out with. There's a difference between liking a football player, and liking the person. Isn't about my personal opinion anymore- I can't kick Manziel off the team- and I have to hope he does well.
This had zero, zilch, nada to do with the fake JFF ID. I could care less about it. I do care about his conduct after he got drafted by the Browns however. F**cking liar. I'm all into football. sure. However, I (and some others) still think he's still got some growing up to do. Maybe he'd actually be starting if he had been in Berea working out instead of hanging out with Bieb-er.
Everyone, hoorta doesn't care if he's proven right but he wants you to know about his track record. He's apathetic, but.
Your entire post proved my points for me. Thanks.
It's flat out weird you want your qb to be someone you want to hang out with. Why would you even say that? Like you think about hanging out with the players? Or you just like things that are like you?
Good luck with that.
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The irony of hoorta suggesting manziel needs to grow up is amazing.
Hopefully he does one day so you take down your brian Hoyer poster. Please, post more post on the Internet about how another man needs to grow up to do his job better where he makes millions of dollars.
That's adult-like.
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