What to do at ILB
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Well, I think the first thing you do is sign a FA so that ILB won't be a must. Because if it is, even trading down would be problematic; you'd risk missing out on Maualuga, who may be the only Day 1 starting ILB after Curry. And if that would lead to us taking Maualuga at #5, my gut tells me that we'd be making a huge mistake.
I'm not Eric Barton's biggest fan. But if signing him would provide us some veteran leadership and more latitude in the draft, I wouldn't have a problem with bringing him in. We can't find long-term solutions at every spot in one year, so going with Barton and a developmental Day 2 ILB would make sense.
We could also go with a cheaper young guy: someone like Ricky Brown (RFA), Pat Thomas, or Adam Seward. One of those guys could compete for the starting job and, hopefully, end up being another Kokinis pro personnel success story.
Also, I kind of like some of the Day 2 ILB options. Though most of them wouldn't be immediate starters, I might prefer going with Orakpo & one of them over drafting Maualuga & trying to find an edge rusher on the second day.
Aloysius said:
Well, I think the first thing you do is sign a FA so that ILB won't be a must. Because if it is, even trading down would be problematic; you'd risk missing out on Maualuga, who may be the only Day 1 starting ILB after Curry. And if that would lead to us taking Maualuga at #5, my gut tells me that we'd be making a huge mistake.I'm not Eric Barton's biggest fan. But if signing him would provide us some veteran leadership and more latitude in the draft, I wouldn't have a problem with bringing him in. We can't find long-term solutions at every spot in one year, so going with Barton and a developmental Day 2 ILB would make sense.
We could also go with a cheaper young guy: someone like Ricky Brown (RFA), Pat Thomas, or Adam Seward. One of those guys could compete for the starting job and, hopefully, end up being another Kokinis pro personnel success story.
Also, I kind of like some of the Day 2 ILB options. Though most of them wouldn't be immediate starters, I might prefer going with Orakpo & one of them over drafting Maualuga & trying to find an edge rusher on the second day.
It's a good plan.......................but again I'm just being the devil's advocate, is Barton an upgrade over Davis? Is he good enough to step in and stop the run. Our defense don't work if we can't stop the run. The pass rush doesn't matter if Pitts can run the ball down our throats.
But, it might be the best option..................Or, do you reach and take Maualuga.
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The BIG problem is that there are only a few ILB's worth a damn and if we want one we have to snatch them with the 2nd rounder...with Brinkley's performance today....he may be our only option unless you like beckwith from Lsu. None of the half decent ones will be there after the second round. I really do not want anymore average ILB's...had them my whole life.
The BIG problem is that there are only a few ILB's worth a damn and if we want one we have to snatch them with the 2nd rounder...with Brinkley's performance today....he may be our only option unless you like beckwith from Lsu. None of the half decent ones will be there after the second round. I really do not want anymore average ILB's...had them my whole life.
So, can Brinkley be our solution? Then no RB with the #37 pick
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i think you're right to assume that brinkley will be gone by the end of the third, but i wasn't saying that the third would be where we take him, i was just projecting the range that he would go. i'm quite aware that we don't have a third.
unless you're talking about another jackson, DQ is a three-down backer. he played well on third downs last year and there's no reason to think he wouldn't do the same this year.
also, raji is a NT. pure and simple. there's no way he could play DE. way too big.
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Trying to get all options out on the table.
Personally, I go hard at Crowder and Scott and then that frees up the draft. You will still need to take a project ILB later on in the draft but an impact FA ILB from FA is what they need to look at. If it doesn't work out then I have to take a hard look at Maualuga and hope I can find a trade partner.
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Aloysius said:
Well, I think the first thing you do is sign a FA so that ILB won't be a must. Because if it is, even trading down would be problematic; you'd risk missing out on Maualuga, who may be the only Day 1 starting ILB after Curry. And if that would lead to us taking Maualuga at #5, my gut tells me that we'd be making a huge mistake.I'm not Eric Barton's biggest fan. But if signing him would provide us some veteran leadership and more latitude in the draft, I wouldn't have a problem with bringing him in. We can't find long-term solutions at every spot in one year, so going with Barton and a developmental Day 2 ILB would make sense.
We could also go with a cheaper young guy: someone like Ricky Brown (RFA), Pat Thomas, or Adam Seward. One of those guys could compete for the starting job and, hopefully, end up being another Kokinis pro personnel success story.
Also, I kind of like some of the Day 2 ILB options. Though most of them wouldn't be immediate starters, I might prefer going with Orakpo & one of them over drafting Maualuga & trying to find an edge rusher on the second day.
It's a good plan.......................but again I'm just being the devil's advocate, is Barton an upgrade over Davis? Is he good enough to step in and stop the run. Our defense don't work if we can't stop the run. The pass rush doesn't matter if Pitts can run the ball down our throats.
But, it might be the best option..................Or, do you reach and take Maualuga.
It's a good plan.......................but again I'm just being the devil's advocate, is Barton an upgrade over Davis? Is he good enough to step in and stop the run. Our defense don't work if we can't stop the run. The pass rush doesn't matter if Pitts can run the ball down our throats.
Barton's definitely an upgrade over Davis, especially when it comes to instincts and recognizing plays. Davis may be a little bit stronger, but Barton moves better.
That said, Barton played poorly towards the end of last season, particularly during the Buffalo game. He may have worn down after a long season spent oscillating between SILB (when Harris was playing) and WILB (when Bowens was playing). At this point, he may be better off as part of a rotation, which is something we should be doing anyway.
As a short-term, high character stopgap, Barton makes a lot of sense. He won't make our run defense dominant, but he also won't get us gashed for big gains. Assuming we're not expecting to have a Super Bowl defense put together by next season, we could do far worse than Barton. At the very least, he'd be a solid mentor to the rookie LB we end up drafting.
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i think you're right to assume that brinkley will be gone by the end of the third, but i wasn't saying that the third would be where we take him, i was just projecting the range that he would go. i'm quite aware that we don't have a third.
unless you're talking about another jackson, DQ is a three-down backer. he played well on third downs last year and there's no reason to think he wouldn't do the same this year.
also, raji is a NT. pure and simple. there's no way he could play DE. way too big.
i think you're right to assume that brinkley will be gone by the end of the third, but i wasn't saying that the third would be where we take him, i was just projecting the range that he would go. i'm quite aware that we don't have a third.
unless you're talking about another jackson, DQ is a three-down backer. he played well on third downs last year and there's no reason to think he wouldn't do the same this year.
also, raji is a NT. pure and simple. there's no way he could play DE. way too big.
Jackson is not a good cover LB. One of the reasons he is playing WILB. He stayed on the field because Davis was so slow he couldn't cover shit. But, it isn't Jackson's strength. We need an ILB with some coverage skills that can stay on the field in nickle situations and cover the middle of the field or TE running crossing routes.
You are right about Raji, he would be like S. Smith or Rogers playing DE.
If we can make a trade and get a top of the 3rd round pick for Anderson or we trade down a few spots and get that 3rd round pick I think Brinkley could work for us. I wouldn't take him with our 2nd round pick.
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It's a good plan.......................but again I'm just being the devil's advocate, is Barton an upgrade over Davis? Is he good enough to step in and stop the run. Our defense don't work if we can't stop the run. The pass rush doesn't matter if Pitts can run the ball down our throats.
Barton's definitely an upgrade over Davis, especially when it comes to instincts and recognizing plays. Davis may be a little bit stronger, but Barton moves better.
That said, Barton played poorly towards the end of last season, particularly during the Buffalo game. He may have worn down after a long season spent oscillating between SILB (when Harris was playing) and WILB (when Bowens was playing). At this point, he may be better off as part of a rotation, which is something we should be doing anyway.
As a short-term, high character stopgap, Barton makes a lot of sense. He won't make our run defense dominant, but he also won't get us gashed for big gains. Assuming we're not expecting to have a Super Bowl defense put together by next season, we could do far worse than Barton. At the very least, he'd be a solid mentor to the rookie LB we end up drafting.
Aloysius said:
Barton's definitely an upgrade over Davis, especially when it comes to instincts and recognizing plays. Davis may be a little bit stronger, but Barton moves better.That said, Barton played poorly towards the end of last season, particularly during the Buffalo game. He may have worn down after a long season spent oscillating between SILB (when Harris was playing) and WILB (when Bowens was playing). At this point, he may be better off as part of a rotation, which is something we should be doing anyway.
As a short-term, high character stopgap, Barton makes a lot of sense. He won't make our run defense dominant, but he also won't get us gashed for big gains. Assuming we're not expecting to have a Super Bowl defense put together by next season, we could do far worse than Barton. At the very least, he'd be a solid mentor to the rookie LB we end up drafting.
I don't think he's a solution but he may have to be that stop gap. We have Bell to look at and that would be another reason we need to get some extra picks. There will be some good LB talent still around in the 4th round.
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I was listening to Kenny Roda around 6:30 and he did have a good point- Rey Maualuga is projected to go in the high teens but he best fits our the scheme then draft him at #5. Who the hell cares what draft analyst and so called "draft experts" say. Aaron Curry will not be there at #5. Bart Scott will stay a Raven cause Ray wants to wear a star on his helmet and you can't count on late round prospects to play every down.
I was listening to Kenny Roda around 6:30 and he did have a good point- Rey Maualuga is projected to go in the high teens but he best fits our the scheme then draft him at #5. Who the hell cares what draft analyst and so called "draft experts" say.
I don't know....Sometimes I'm beginning to think Ytownbacker has a good point. Just draft the best available. Too often a stretch to fill a need comes back to bite you in the ass.
I want to be sure with the 5th best player in the country.
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Raji is big. But scouts say he has the agility and mobility to play either end position in the 3-4. What did he run the 40 in? 5.11 or something like that?
As big as he is? The only dlineman getting to the qb is... Rodgers anyway. I thought the 3-4 front three were to occupy the oline, and let the lb's
dominate.
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I was listening to Kenny Roda around 6:30 and he did have a good point- Rey Maualuga is projected to go in the high teens but he best fits our the scheme then draft him at #5. Who the hell cares what draft analyst and so called "draft experts" say. Aaron Curry will not be there at #5. Bart Scott will stay a Raven cause Ray wants to wear a star on his helmet and you can't count on late round prospects to play every down.
I was listening to Kenny Roda around 6:30 and he did have a good point- Rey Maualuga is projected to go in the high teens but he best fits our the scheme then draft him at #5. Who the hell cares what draft analyst and so called "draft experts" say. Aaron Curry will not be there at #5. Bart Scott will stay a Raven cause Ray wants to wear a star on his helmet and you can't count on late round prospects to play every down.
Personally, I try to solve the problem in FA but, if the coaches analyze the film and bring him in (Maualuga) and work him out and think that he could be their guy, then I don't have a problem taking him at #5. I remember a few years ago when everybody was saying Merriman was a middle round guy and would be a reach for us. If you think you found your guy that is the best fit for you, then take him and screw the draft gurus.
I think at least they need to get someone like Barton who could work into a rotation at ILB because Williams can't cut it. Nothing wrong with taking a veteran like Barton and bring in someone like Maualuga or Brinkley and have them in a rotation with Jackson. Maybe Bell will even step up this year and be a usable option.
Hey, injuries happen and a 10 year vet may be better off rotating and taking a few series off.
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I like trading down and taking Rey, too. And if we can't get out take the BPA, which is, in my mind:
- Crabtree
- Orapko
- Raji
I'd let the news slip that we're really interested in Raji to see if we can't get Green Bay to bite.
I like trading down and taking Rey, too. And if we can't get out take the BPA, which is, in my mind:
- Crabtree
- Orapko
- Raji
I'd let the news slip that we're really interested in Raji to see if we can't get Green Bay to bite.
Just watched some more of of Raji. Damn, he's good. His spin move is just as smooth as Everette Brown's, who's about the same height...and eighty pounds lighter.
And for the proponents of the "SILB is a dirty work job" theory (Shep and JJ, I'm talking to you!), BC's Robert Francois is exactly what you're looking for. Not the most athletic guy in the world, but very good at shedding blocks and not overrunning plays. He has that fullback build, yet is surprisingly effective in coverage.
Wouldn't mind seeing us bring him in on Day 2.
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Raji is big. But scouts say he has the agility and mobility to play either end position in the 3-4. What did he run the 40 in? 5.11 or something like that?
As big as he is? The only dlineman getting to the qb is... Rodgers anyway. I thought the 3-4 front three were to occupy the oline, and let the lb's
dominate.
Raji is big. But scouts say he has the agility and mobility to play either end position in the 3-4. What did he run the 40 in? 5.11 or something like that?
As big as he is? The only dlineman getting to the qb is... Rodgers anyway. I thought the 3-4 front three were to occupy the oline, and let the lb's
dominate.
Basically, you are right our type of 3-4 system is a read and react for the linemen. They are to engage and hold the point of attack, then get some push if it is a pass play. The LBs are the play makers and that's exactly why our defense has sucked under RAC. We never had LBs making plays, consistantly.
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i like jasper brinkley. big hitter, decent in coverage and timed better than i ever expected he would. to me, he's the prototype SILB. he's not an every down player like cushing or curry, but he'd fit the role well and we should be able to get him in the round 3 to 4 range if his combine performance doesn't raise his stock too high.
i like jasper brinkley. big hitter, decent in coverage and timed better than i ever expected he would. to me, he's the prototype SILB. he's not an every down player like cushing or curry, but he'd fit the role well and we should be able to get him in the round 3 to 4 range if his combine performance doesn't raise his stock too high.
Brinkley has been on my radar for quite a while...and his numbers are showing that he is over his injury. He was originally slated as a 6th round pick...so even with his decent showing at the combine he may not have moved all the way to the 3rd...but even if he has...it makes a lot more sense to make a trade to move from 4th to 3rd round than it does to REACH at #5 for a Rey Maualuga.
I think, if Curry is gone...I would actually lean towards either Orakpo or Jenkins. I want to see Jenkins results here....but think about this.
Jenkins is being thought of as BOTH a S and a CB. He would be the kind of player that gives us flexibility. He isn't my FAVORITE there...but he really is starting to grow on me as an OPTION if we can't move down.
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@shepwrite said:
I'm liking Jasper Brinkley in round three with the pick we get for Anderson. He's much faster than Beau Bell and a banger who doesn't mind putting his nose in it. A lot depends on what we pull off in free agency, but it makes sense to me.Would you still look at Barton in FA for depth at the position if you can get Brinkley? I would hope that Bell could work into the rotation also and give them some depth. I always thought Leon Williams could be a situational edge rusher, but he jsut doesn't fit as a ILB in the 3-4.
Now, does Brinkley last until the 3rd round or do we need an additional pick in the 2nd round?
The more you look at this draft the more I am convinced that we definately have to get some additional picks. Anderson trade and trade down in round 1. Who else could be trade bait?
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Converting a raji or rogers to a DE makes more sense then some think.. 3 beasts upfront frees the linebackers to raise 3 kinds of hell in the backfield against the run and all but guarantees consistant pressure on the qb...raji is likely faster then williams or smith flat out..
Runs for losses would become the norm and qbs would tremble in their pocket for the short time they could stay in it...hehehe
Robaire smith is average to slightly below average against the run and pass he is easily taken out of the formulation with 1 tackle or guard depending on the o-scheme he can also be held up just long enough with a good bump or by a good blocking TE or RB that he rarely gets any pressure or penetration..im not sure about williams as he played hurt all season and still fared better then smith when he played imho...
At this point getting a high motor DE is as important as a olb and securing a FS/SS with vision that offers proper support to the corners instead of going solo at will is also important...
I really dont envy mankoks decisions in the draft or FA we arent sitting pretty this time around and mankok is likely going to look stupid no matter which path they take short of shuffling butterfingers and DA for picks/trades..and even that has an ugly side.
We have been rebuilding since 1964, Why stop now? GO BROWNS! -
The BIG problem is that there are only a few ILB's worth a damn and if we want one we have to snatch them with the 2nd rounder...with Brinkley's performance today....he may be our only option unless you like beckwith from Lsu. None of the half decent ones will be there after the second round. I really do not want anymore average ILB's...had them my whole life.
So, can Brinkley be our solution? Then no RB with the #37 pick
So, can Brinkley be our solution? Then no RB with the #37 pick
I am not saying he is a solution ...I'm saying if we address the ILB situation with one of the FEW guys in this draft it will have to be at #36 because I personally don't think we can with the 4th rounder or the 6th....Meaning the ILB's worth a damn will be way gone due to the lack of them. Friday starts FA...It will determine either the LB position or RB position maybe even the Center position....which will effect our draft strategy
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So, can Brinkley be our solution? Then no RB with the #37 pick
I am not saying he is a solution ...I'm saying if we address the ILB situation with one of the FEW guys in this draft it will have to be at #36 because I personally don't think we can with the 4th rounder or the 6th....Meaning the ILB's worth a damn will be way gone due to the lack of them. Friday starts FA...It will determine either the LB position or RB position maybe even the Center position....which will effect our draft strategy
I am not saying he is a solution ...I'm saying if we address the ILB situation with one of the FEW guys in this draft it will have to be at #36 because I personally don't think we can with the 4th rounder or the 6th....Meaning the ILB's worth a damn will be way gone due to the lack of them. Friday starts FA...It will determine either the LB position or RB position maybe even the Center position....which will effect our draft strategy
I agree.............................................
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Converting a raji or rogers to a DE makes more sense then some think.. 3 beasts upfront frees the linebackers to raise 3 kinds of hell in the backfield against the run and all but guarantees consistant pressure on the qb...raji is likely faster then williams or smith flat out..
Runs for losses would become the norm and qbs would tremble in their pocket for the short time they could stay in it...hehehe
Robaire smith is average to slightly below average against the run and pass he is easily taken out of the formulation with 1 tackle or guard depending on the o-scheme he can also be held up just long enough with a good bump or by a good blocking TE or RB that he rarely gets any pressure or penetration..im not sure about williams as he played hurt all season and still fared better then smith when he played imho...
At this point getting a high motor DE is as important as a olb and securing a FS/SS with vision that offers proper support to the corners instead of going solo at will is also important...
I really dont envy mankoks decisions in the draft or FA we arent sitting pretty this time around and mankok is likely going to look stupid no matter which path they take short of shuffling butterfingers and DA for picks/trades..and even that has an ugly side.
Converting a raji or rogers to a DE makes more sense then some think.. 3 beasts upfront frees the linebackers to raise 3 kinds of hell in the backfield
I agree....It causes huge matchup problems that many teams can't handle. Unless they have an All pro Tackle that can go one on one with with one of the two, you'll wreak havoc all day long.
Haynesworth helps the Titan's defense so much. He constantly draws double and triple teams and it allows guys like Vanden Bosch, Ford and Tony Banks to make big plays.
The Titans defense is in the top 6 in about every catagory and it's due more to that great D line than it is the LB's. Bulluck is a great LB. After that they are average.
But they run the 4-3.....Linebackers play a bit larger role in the 3-4.
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Converting a raji or rogers to a DE makes more sense then some think.. 3 beasts upfront frees the linebackers to raise 3 kinds of hell in the backfield against the run and all but guarantees consistant pressure on the qb...raji is likely faster then williams or smith flat out..
Runs for losses would become the norm and qbs would tremble in their pocket for the short time they could stay in it...hehehe
Robaire smith is average to slightly below average against the run and pass he is easily taken out of the formulation with 1 tackle or guard depending on the o-scheme he can also be held up just long enough with a good bump or by a good blocking TE or RB that he rarely gets any pressure or penetration..im not sure about williams as he played hurt all season and still fared better then smith when he played imho...
At this point getting a high motor DE is as important as a olb and securing a FS/SS with vision that offers proper support to the corners instead of going solo at will is also important...
I really dont envy mankoks decisions in the draft or FA we arent sitting pretty this time around and mankok is likely going to look stupid no matter which path they take short of shuffling butterfingers and DA for picks/trades..and even that has an ugly side.
Converting a raji or rogers to a DE makes more sense then some think.. 3 beasts upfront frees the linebackers to raise 3 kinds of hell in the backfield against the run and all but guarantees consistant pressure on the qb...raji is likely faster then williams or smith flat out..
Runs for losses would become the norm and qbs would tremble in their pocket for the short time they could stay in it...hehehe
Robaire smith is average to slightly below average against the run and pass he is easily taken out of the formulation with 1 tackle or guard depending on the o-scheme he can also be held up just long enough with a good bump or by a good blocking TE or RB that he rarely gets any pressure or penetration..im not sure about williams as he played hurt all season and still fared better then smith when he played imho...
At this point getting a high motor DE is as important as a olb and securing a FS/SS with vision that offers proper support to the corners instead of going solo at will is also important...
I really dont envy mankoks decisions in the draft or FA we arent sitting pretty this time around and mankok is likely going to look stupid no matter which path they take short of shuffling butterfingers and DA for picks/trades..and even that has an ugly side.
Alo and I have been over this and I think we both agree...the problem with putting all those big guys on the DL is that you end up getting sweeps and end arounds run on you all day. Then, when you adjust to cover those...the can go A gap on you. It just doesn't work.
There really is a reason guys in the 285-310 range our considered to be the ideal for a 3-4 DE.
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Say just for fun this happens DET-Curry,KC-Maualuga,Rams-Crabtree,Seattle-Beanie . I KNOW this will NOT hapen but say it does, the top 4 guys I would like to see in orange and brown are gone so who do we draft at 5? or do we trade down? Do we pick Lauranitus at 5 or hope he will be there if we trade down? Well maybe not Crabtree but the other 3 for sure
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