Was the 1st interception all on Hoyer?
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It looked pretty clear that yet again him and Gordon were not on the same page. The announcers picked up on it too that receivers are supposed to break across the deep safety when they see him in that position. If he had done so he would have caught that ball and if the safety was half a step late in getting there Gordon would have cut past him and scored. Not sure if you can hang that one on Hoyer. The INT to Austin though was horrific, like the final one last week. Just a wtf throw. Honestly to that point I wasn't putting the whole game on Hoyer. West's 2nd fumble just put that whole game on complete blast. We never established the run so Buffalo was hanging back on our routes. O line did a pretty good job of protecting Hoyer for most of the game though have to admit...they just couldn't run block that well today.
So this being said, I wasn't upset in the slightest to see Manziel get his crack at the ball. Not sure he starts the rest of the season but Hoyer needed to be told this shit was unacceptable. Manziel didn't do as great a job as some of you are making it out to be though. He made two really stupid throws that Buffalo almost picked off and had they, we'd probably all be saying....Shaw? The TD run? Of course, we know Johhny can do that. Does anyone want to see him doing that on a regular basis? He will get bounced hard diving into the endzone like that...how many qb's have seen their season end on that exact kind of play? It's a hero dive and I love it, but it's a get Connor Shaw up and throwing type play.
Good luck against Indy whoever starts, their OLB'ers are no joke.
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The one thing Brian has done so well is protect the football, these past few weeks he's had a "FUCK IT" attitude and just tossed it up.
Interceptions like today and last week are on the QB.
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The Colts pass rushers don't bother me. JT will stone wall Waldon and Schwartz will be fine against a regressing Werner.
Our defense on the other hand....
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I always thought on 2 deep safeties, the WR should go OUTSIDE!
The 2 deep safeties are INSIDE.
Watch Aaron Rodgers. He throws the ball down the sidelines IN BETWEEN the safety and the corner.
It takes the safety a lot longer to cover the sidelines, then it does the hash
"And they don't really know even what they're talkin' about And I can't imagine what empty heads can achieve." -
The Colts pass rushers don't bother me. JT will stone wall Waldon and Schwartz will be fine against a regressing Werner.
Our defense on the other hand....
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It's never Brian Hoyers fault.
It's never Brian Hoyers fault.
Sure it was. Gordon was wide open for a TD and Hoyer threw it RIGHT TO THE SAFETY
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Gordon ran right past the entire defense and Hoyer threw it short, right into the defense
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I always thought on 2 deep safeties, the WR should go OUTSIDE!
The 2 deep safeties are INSIDE.
Watch Aaron Rodgers. He throws the ball down the sidelines IN BETWEEN the safety and the corner.
It takes the safety a lot longer to cover the sidelines, then it does the hash
I always thought on 2 deep safeties, the WR should go OUTSIDE!
The 2 deep safeties are INSIDE.
Watch Aaron Rodgers. He throws the ball down the sidelines IN BETWEEN the safety and the corner.
It takes the safety a lot longer to cover the sidelines, then it does the hash
It really depends on what's going on.
Ideally you want spread out WRs, and the safety tries to play the inside, which is where it opens up that the receiver gets open outside.
But pretty often in cover 2 the middle of the field is also an option if you can get between the safeties (or overtop). It was pretty clear Hoyer anticipated Gordon cutting inside the safety (it wasn't a matter of Hoyer not seeing something). Honestly I trust Hoyer's knowledge a bit more than Gordon's on that one. Seems like the general consensus is it was Gordon's mistake...
The last throw of the 1st half against ATL saw a similar situation (albeit against a more prevent-type defense). Except in that case Gordon was cutting inside where Hoyer threw it outside (incompletion, but also not one that's on Hoyer). There's definitely been some miscommunication issues down the field with Hoyer+Gordon.
The second interception was because he didn't see the safety, entirely his fault.
I'm not excusing Hoyer at all. He played pretty unacceptable and couldn't get it going...for awhile now.
My evaluation when our offense was capable of more than -5 yards (first half) with Hoyer is they kept it really simple and quick. Slants, drags, screens. One smart audible to get Austin down the field. He really hasn't been able to find ANYTHING on his 5-7 step dropbacks where there's more going on up the field (say past the linebacker level).
For some reason he never seems to get to his checkdown, even though sometimes he'd have them wide open. His once-seemingly-fast progressions seemed slow. Looking at the #1 and then not being able to get past that quick enough or if he did not being able to find anything. Partly due to buffalo's solid pass rush, but we've seen him struggle with it for the past few now - even against a horrid ATL pass defense.
I have no objection to starting Manziel next week (pretty much every game seems must-win now, but I never was optimistic against the Colts). Will Pettine do it? I'm giving it about 55/45 that he announces Manziel starts. But the safari can continue until Tuesday/Wednesday.
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That Hoyer threw it that far off, it had to be Gordon didn't run his route correctly.
What I have a slight problem with is Gordon's body language after the INT. Maybe he was mentally giving himself lumps for screwing up, but I thought he should've been turning on a dime and trying to tackle. He's fast enough.
Maybe I'm jumping the gun a bit, but my concern is his attitude in situations like that. I hope I'm looking into something that isn't really there.
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That Hoyer threw it that far off, it had to be Gordon didn't run his route correctly.
What I have a slight problem with is Gordon's body language after the INT. Maybe he was mentally giving himself lumps for screwing up, but I thought he should've been turning on a dime and trying to tackle. He's fast enough.
Maybe I'm jumping the gun a bit, but my concern is his attitude in situations like that. I hope I'm looking into something that isn't really there.
That Hoyer threw it that far off, it had to be Gordon didn't run his route correctly.
What I have a slight problem with is Gordon's body language after the INT. Maybe he was mentally giving himself lumps for screwing up, but I thought he should've been turning on a dime and trying to tackle. He's fast enough.
Maybe I'm jumping the gun a bit, but my concern is his attitude in situations like that. I hope I'm looking into something that isn't really there.
I agree, his lack of effort should be a concern.
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Nothing happens in a vacuum but that's the way it goes.
If we are riding the excuse train remember Johnny had two passes hit the receivers in the hands but...
WSS
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I always thought on 2 deep safeties, the WR should go OUTSIDE!
The 2 deep safeties are INSIDE.
Watch Aaron Rodgers. He throws the ball down the sidelines IN BETWEEN the safety and the corner.
It takes the safety a lot longer to cover the sidelines, then it does the hash
I always thought on 2 deep safeties, the WR should go OUTSIDE!
The 2 deep safeties are INSIDE.
Watch Aaron Rodgers. He throws the ball down the sidelines IN BETWEEN the safety and the corner.
It takes the safety a lot longer to cover the sidelines, then it does the hash
When the safety is playing outside leverage or outside of the hash, you run the skinny. Pretty easy read as a receiver.
1st pick is on Gordon. If He's there like he should be -it's a big gain. Hypothetical - if Hoyer waits to see him get into his break the ball will be late and the safety will still be there. Receiver has to see what the QB does.
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That 1st Int might actually be on Shanny now that I see what some of you guys are saying, and it makes sense. Should Shanny be having Gordon run complicated routes where he has to read the coverage and figure out what Hoyer is going to do assuming Hoyer see's the same thing? That might me too much for Josh..he's an athletic kid but doesn't strike me as a student of the game. He can count to whatever and turn and look back at the QB..those are routes made for him. Predetermined timed routes. Let the hot reads go to guys like Hawkins and Austin or our TE's. At least this season. Gordon may need a year or two of uninterrupted non suspended playing time to fully acclimate to Shanny's system.
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It's never Brian Hoyers fault.
It's never Brian Hoyers fault.
'Bout time you started quoting me... No? Or is passive-aggressive your internet style of choice?
FYI... the second INT was totally on Hoyer. He got suckered in... and this was only the third time I've said so.
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ManzielSucks said:
Why are you here? Other then to ask me stupid questions. Do you talk football at all? This is your only post in this whole thread... Look around more then just me think he can't read defenses.
I'm here because I'm a Browns fan. You couldn't even admit to being a Browns fan when I confronted you with a very easy to understand question. So, your douchebag answer says it all. You're a troll.
Go fuck yourself (I didn't want to shorten that, because of your lack of reading comprehension skills)
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You talking about Manziel for reading defenses?ManzielSucks said:
Why are you here? Other then to ask me stupid questions. Do you talk football at all? This is your only post in this whole thread... Look around more then just me think he can't read defenses.
He definitely mastered some concepts at A&M and demonstrated making the throw to the 2nd, 3rd progressions for those concepts. One in awhile he was locked on pre snap, but not all that often.
Of course, I'm sure the pass concepts are many more and more difficult in Shanny's system than what he had at A&M. But how he executes on those can only really be evaluated by the staff since we haven't seen him run it.
It's pretty obvious I'm not sucking Johnny around here, but there should be some objective evaluation to both these guys. There a lot who are totally biased one way or the other, you're one of them.
But yes, it certainly isn't all on Hoyer. Gordon's made more mistakes than we probably think he has.
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ManzielSucks said:
I never mentioned Manziel in this thread till just now. I was talking about the WRs responsibility to read the DB and LBs for his route changes.
Then yes, I believe Gordon has made more mistakes than people realize. Hoyer also hasn't really looked around so much since he's been back for whatever reason.
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