sell off the o line and front seven in the offseason...
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Ah, so. I still disagree. And highly.
Present your case other then "you disagree"...... "highly"
Present your case other then "you disagree"...... "highly"
He can't... so give him a break.
Injuries are going to happen. We need to be in a better position to fill-in for those injuries. A good backup C and someone that can compete with Schwartz at RT would be good. The D-line just needs an interior Run-stuffer to prevent blockers from so easily getting to the second level...
High pick to demote a starter to back-up, Day 2 picks to compete or Day 3's and UDFA's in search of a gem. Or all the above... plenty of room available as we have not seen a single back-up step up to anything approaching a level of competence.
Only McDaniel started showing signs of being good enough to get by... and that was after weeks of play. McQuistan and Seymore have been unmitigated disasters.
but this isn't knee jerk. You can say the D line has been decimated, but this is what we've seen from them for the most part, since opening day.
Wow... how long would it take me to find posts within the last week about our showing against Indy?
Today I saw Poa and Kitchen in there side by side way too many times. That's a new level of decimation in my book. Add that the only decent blows the D got all game were halftime and the late second QTR "flag-a-thon drive", and safe to say they wore down some.
It's knee-jerk...
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I would completely agree with you if you can pay players without consequence. New England won't hap a DB cap hit over $4 million next year.
What? You think they won't retain Revis? Browner and himself are one of the big reasons the Pats are so dangerous at home this year.
It was a fan friendly pick but you drafted Haden I believe 7th and picked Gilbert 8th. Gilbert then should be the new Haden and Skrine is the opposite guy and you spend that money in other places. The beauty of the NFL is through the draft you can drastically improve your team, the bad news is if you draft poorly you lose ground. The Patriots will let people go that are cap issues, Revis next year, and reload in the 4th round of the draft.
Not a chance in hell you let a top 5 DB under 25 years old walk off your team. You draft Gilbert to form a dominant secondary, not to let Haden go.
Also, the pats will at worst re-structure Revis' contract but you can bet your sweet ass he's staying in New England. Dude has balled out this season like the Revis of old.
What? You think they won't retain Revis? Browner and himself are one of the big reasons the Pats are so dangerous at home this year.
Not a chance in hell you let a top 5 DB under 25 years old walk off your team. You draft Gilbert to form a dominant secondary, not to let Haden go.
Also, the pats will at worst re-structure Revis' contract but you can bet your sweet ass he's staying in New England. Dude has balled out this season like the Revis of old.
I think Revis will be gone. I don't see them taking more than a $7 to $8 million dollar hit for a DB but a team like Oakland will give him a good chunk based on this year.
I'm not saying I dislike Haden but I really think the NFL is still a "trenches" game and if you are telling me I can spend a finite amount of money DL over DB for me.
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What? You think they won't retain Revis? Browner and himself are one of the big reasons the Pats are so dangerous at home this year.
Not a chance in hell you let a top 5 DB under 25 years old walk off your team. You draft Gilbert to form a dominant secondary, not to let Haden go.
Also, the pats will at worst re-structure Revis' contract but you can bet your sweet ass he's staying in New England. Dude has balled out this season like the Revis of old.
I think Revis will be gone. I don't see them taking more than a $7 to $8 million dollar hit for a DB but a team like Oakland will give him a good chunk based on this year.
I'm not saying I dislike Haden but I really think the NFL is still a "trenches" game and if you are telling me I can spend a finite amount of money DL over DB for me.
I think Revis will be gone. I don't see them taking more than a $7 to $8 million dollar hit for a DB but a team like Oakland will give him a good chunk based on this year.
I'm not saying I dislike Haden but I really think the NFL is still a "trenches" game and if you are telling me I can spend a finite amount of money DL over DB for me.
Football is a complimentary game. I agree that the trenches are most important, but anytime you have a top 5 player at any given position, you don't let them go. Its that simple. Also, this team has a ton of cap space
so investing in the Dline, especially in the draft with the rookie slotting system - will hurt this team very, very little.
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Suh is a top 5 guy and most likely Detroit will let him walk
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Suh is a top 5 guy and most likely Detroit will let him walk
Suh is a top 5 guy and most likely Detroit will let him walk
Nice try but Suh with on field issues and the open rumors of him wanting out of Detroit really haven't endeared him to the front office.
If he was all about the city like Haden is about Cleveland, do you think a contract extension wouldn't already be done?
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Yes. Lets stay shitty on run defense and defense in general because its not a fucking cleveland thing to have a bad ass DL like Suh.
"You planning on having a long relationship with that glass or are you going to drink it? Drink up, man. Maybe we can get another.” - Janis Joplin, 1970. -
Suh is a top 5 guy and most likely Detroit will let him walk
Nice try but Suh with on field issues and the open rumors of him wanting out of Detroit really haven't endeared him to the front office.
If he was all about the city like Haden is about Cleveland, do you think a contract extension wouldn't already be done?
Nice try but Suh with on field issues and the open rumors of him wanting out of Detroit really haven't endeared him to the front office.
If he was all about the city like Haden is about Cleveland, do you think a contract extension wouldn't already be done?
I think in the NFL talent means the most and Suh is as talented as they come. If you are paying a guy because he's community minded you're in trouble. Again not saying that Haden is bad just if you can't get to the QB, DBs are in trouble. I hope they can get better on the D Line but money is always an issue in the NFL.
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Said last week when your QB is getting Sacked by a 3 Man rush you've got more than QB issues.
Team never showed up today, D or O.
There is something terribly wrong with this Team, and they may need to completely clean house (and I mean get rid of everyone) and start all over again to get to the bottom of it.
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Yes. Lets stay shitty on run defense and defense in general because its not a fucking cleveland thing to have a bad ass DL like Suh.
Yes. Lets stay shitty on run defense and defense in general because its not a fucking cleveland thing to have a bad ass DL like Suh.
You don't think Detroit would like to stay "badass" on the Dline with Suh? Clearly there are deeper issues there. Its rather mutual. Would I mind having Suh? I'd love it.
Do I think the team will drop that kind of coin on an interior lineman? Not really. Plus I think there are better options in the draft.
I think in the NFL talent means the most and Suh is as talented as they come. If you are paying a guy because he's community minded you're in trouble. Again not saying that Haden is bad just if you can't get to the QB, DBs are in trouble. I hope they can get better on the D Line but money is always an issue in the NFL.
Again I think you have a mix up. IT isn't a "community" issue has nothing to do with this as Suh is reportedly a stand up guy in Detroit. The issues have been the on field exploits, constant fines, quarreling with coaching staff internally and his desire to play elsewhere.
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As I mentioned in my first post on here, I'm a Packers fan with a strong, and perhaps unexplainable, appreciation of the Browns. Today I had to endure both watching both teams struggle like crazy.
The Packers' D finally showed up today, holding the Bills to 4 field goals despite taking the field inside their own 30 and at midfield when Rodgers threw his interceptions.
The passing offense was absolutely pathetic, considering it is widely recognized as one of the best in the league.
I did not come on here to complain about the Packers passing game, it's clearly not the place to do so, but to hopefully provide some perspective.
The Browns have one of the league's best and most consistent left tackles with a fairly team friendly cap hit for the next four seasons. They have one of the best centers in the league who will be back next season, and a very promising rookie guard who will only get better with time. I cannot provide judgment on Greco since I don't follow his play too closely. The weak link is obviously Schwartz, who was consistently getting beat by Dunlap.
On the defensive side of the ball, Phil Taylor is one of the best nose tackles in the league and will be back from injury next year. Bryant and Kruger were both expensive free agent acquisitions, but they are quality players at their respective positions, albeit slightly overpaid. Mingo flashes potential and then disappears for long stretches while Sheard is a pretty good pass rusher. The inside linebackers are nothing to write home about, but they are decent players nonetheless.
I am used to my team consistently winning double digit games per season, so I can see why people would be frustrated with how the season is turning out, but it's important to realize that this is year 1 of a new regime. The Browns clearly have issues at multiple positions but they should be able to fill these needs in free agency and during the draft so the future looks bright if they can get any form of stability at QB.
The way I see it, these three games are a try-out for Manziel. It's a chance to see what works for him in this offensive system and what areas of his game still need work so a plan can be put in the place in the offseason to get the most out of him next season and make sure this team gets back in the playoffs.
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easy now Hadens the one guy on this team who I think is playing absolutely up to his contract.
Giving a DB that kind of money, when you draft Gilbert 8th, in this "hands off" league is nuts. Haden has been up and down this season but overall has been good. He's gonna be a $12 to $14 million hit over the next few years.
Giving a DB that kind of money, when you draft Gilbert 8th, in this "hands off" league is nuts. Haden has been up and down this season but overall has been good. He's gonna be a $12 to $14 million hit over the next few years.
In other words Haden's hit will rise at a much slower percentage rate than the cap? Isn't that a good thing?
dunno, which is why we wouldn't get rid of him unless someone wsa really desperate for a LT and came up out of their pockets. I'm not saying firesale this. But we have to start shopping.
Shopping players is a fire sale...
Zombo said:
Nothing wrong with this team that a quarterback wouldnt solve.
We are 7-6 with a mediocre one, and 0-1 while starting little mascots.
Laughter thru the pain...
There is something terribly wrong with this Team, and they may need to completely clean house (and I mean get rid of everyone) and start all over again to get to the bottom of it.
OMFG... please tell me someone hacked your account.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Nothing wrong with this team that a quarterback wouldnt solve.
We are 7-6 with a mediocre one, and 0-1 while starting little mascots.
Z
Zombo said:
Nothing wrong with this team that a quarterback wouldnt solve.
We are 7-6 with a mediocre one, and 0-1 while starting little mascots.
Z
what game were you watching....must have been one that had a defense....clearly not the browns.........
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As I mentioned in my first post on here, I'm a Packers fan with a strong, and perhaps unexplainable, appreciation of the Browns. Today I had to endure both watching both teams struggle like crazy.
The Packers' D finally showed up today, holding the Bills to 4 field goals despite taking the field inside their own 30 and at midfield when Rodgers threw his interceptions.
The passing offense was absolutely pathetic, considering it is widely recognized as one of the best in the league.
I did not come on here to complain about the Packers passing game, it's clearly not the place to do so, but to hopefully provide some perspective.
The Browns have one of the league's best and most consistent left tackles with a fairly team friendly cap hit for the next four seasons. They have one of the best centers in the league who will be back next season, and a very promising rookie guard who will only get better with time. I cannot provide judgment on Greco since I don't follow his play too closely. The weak link is obviously Schwartz, who was consistently getting beat by Dunlap.
On the defensive side of the ball, Phil Taylor is one of the best nose tackles in the league and will be back from injury next year. Bryant and Kruger were both expensive free agent acquisitions, but they are quality players at their respective positions, albeit slightly overpaid. Mingo flashes potential and then disappears for long stretches while Sheard is a pretty good pass rusher. The inside linebackers are nothing to write home about, but they are decent players nonetheless.
I am used to my team consistently winning double digit games per season, so I can see why people would be frustrated with how the season is turning out, but it's important to realize that this is year 1 of a new regime. The Browns clearly have issues at multiple positions but they should be able to fill these needs in free agency and during the draft so the future looks bright if they can get any form of stability at QB.
The way I see it, these three games are a try-out for Manziel. It's a chance to see what works for him in this offensive system and what areas of his game still need work so a plan can be put in the place in the offseason to get the most out of him next season and make sure this team gets back in the playoffs.
As I mentioned in my first post on here, I'm a Packers fan with a strong, and perhaps unexplainable, appreciation of the Browns. Today I had to endure both watching both teams struggle like crazy.
Good stuff... Not quite as relaxed for you today, eh?
And where in Italy?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
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Giving a DB that kind of money, when you draft Gilbert 8th, in this "hands off" league is nuts. Haden has been up and down this season but overall has been good. He's gonna be a $12 to $14 million hit over the next few years.
In other words Haden's hit will rise at a much slower percentage rate than the cap? Isn't that a good thing?
dunno, which is why we wouldn't get rid of him unless someone wsa really desperate for a LT and came up out of their pockets. I'm not saying firesale this. But we have to start shopping.
Shopping players is a fire sale...
Zombo said:
Nothing wrong with this team that a quarterback wouldnt solve.
We are 7-6 with a mediocre one, and 0-1 while starting little mascots.
Laughter thru the pain...
There is something terribly wrong with this Team, and they may need to completely clean house (and I mean get rid of everyone) and start all over again to get to the bottom of it.
OMFG... please tell me someone hacked your account.
In other words Haden's hit will rise at a much slower percentage rate than the cap? Isn't that a good thing?
Shopping players is a fire sale...
Laughter thru the pain...
OMFG... please tell me someone hacked your account.
Did we see the same game?
6 First downs, 3 of them from Penalties, just cracked 100 yds Offense on the last play . . .
D gave up 30 points, and that was probably cause the game was a wrap.
This was a meaningful game, yet this Team just came out cause they had too apparently - didn't see much effectiveness on either side of the line.
In fact, both Lines were horrid.
This Team plain out QUIT today . . . and for the Season as there's now nothing to play for.
Something is wrong when there is so much on the line and you don't come out do something.
First two series Bengals 22 plays versus 3 and out, 4 and done, 10 zip.
I never really expected the Playoffs this year, but this Team . . .
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can't be helped. We "had" to retain Haden. Our secondary is the best in the NFL now, that has to be retained.
It was a fan friendly pick but you drafted Haden I believe 7th and picked Gilbert 8th. Gilbert then should be the new Haden and Skrine is the opposite guy and you spend that money in other places. The beauty of the NFL is through the draft you can drastically improve your team, the bad news is if you draft poorly you lose ground. The Patriots will let people go that are cap issues, Revis next year, and reload in the 4th round of the draft.
It was a fan friendly pick but you drafted Haden I believe 7th and picked Gilbert 8th. Gilbert then should be the new Haden and Skrine is the opposite guy and you spend that money in other places. The beauty of the NFL is through the draft you can drastically improve your team, the bad news is if you draft poorly you lose ground. The Patriots will let people go that are cap issues, Revis next year, and reload in the 4th round of the draft.
The Packers are successful year in and year out because they draft well and lock up their young talent and let go those who they can replace. You can't let one of the best corners in the league go when he has yet to hit the prime of his career, especially when you invested a top 10 (or what is top 5?) pick in him just a few years earlier.
The Patriots are smart in their salary cap management, but they do not let top talent leave for cap issues unless it can't be avoided. Revis is getting paid 12M$ this year, which is probably the most expensive one year deal for a non quarterback. BB won't hesitate to pay top dollar for players who are worth it, just take a look at the extension they gave Gronk a few years ago...
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this thread is a joke.
i guess indy's offense is a joke correct? weren't half of you faggots pointing out the fact that Indy's offensive puts up more numbers blah blah blah and OMG watch out for andrew luck and what did we do? the browns defense played lights out. lights out enough for even espn commentators say the browns should have won but didn't because hoyer was so bad.
so now after a division rival who we embrassed some weeks ago comes in and whoops our ass, let's sell off the whole team, let's get rid of key contributors on both sides of the ball.
remember beating cicni? why they couldn't run on us? yeah we had the DL infused with taylor who is a major key on our line in stopping the run. you want to draft DL? hell get me 2 in the first round. OL give me three.
the days of the RBs and WRs going in the top ten are soon coming to an end and lineman and to see 10 lineman taken in the top 2o next year...........might not be that big of a stretch.
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this thread is a joke.
i guess indy's offense is a joke correct? weren't half of you faggots pointing out the fact that Indy's offensive puts up more numbers blah blah blah and OMG watch out for andrew luck and what did we do? the browns defense played lights out. lights out enough for even espn commentators say the browns should have won but didn't because hoyer was so bad.
so now after a division rival who we embrassed some weeks ago comes in and whoops our ass, let's sell off the whole team, let's get rid of key contributors on both sides of the ball.
remember beating cicni? why they couldn't run on us? yeah we had the DL infused with taylor who is a major key on our line in stopping the run. you want to draft DL? hell get me 2 in the first round. OL give me three.
the days of the RBs and WRs going in the top ten are soon coming to an end and lineman and to see 10 lineman taken in the top 2o next year...........might not be that big of a stretch.
this thread is a joke.
i guess indy's offense is a joke correct? weren't half of you faggots pointing out the fact that Indy's offensive puts up more numbers blah blah blah and OMG watch out for andrew luck and what did we do? the browns defense played lights out. lights out enough for even espn commentators say the browns should have won but didn't because hoyer was so bad.
so now after a division rival who we embrassed some weeks ago comes in and whoops our ass, let's sell off the whole team, let's get rid of key contributors on both sides of the ball.
remember beating cicni? why they couldn't run on us? yeah we had the DL infused with taylor who is a major key on our line in stopping the run. you want to draft DL? hell get me 2 in the first round. OL give me three.
the days of the RBs and WRs going in the top ten are soon coming to an end and lineman and to see 10 lineman taken in the top 2o next year...........might not be that big of a stretch.
That's the point.
We play like than and follow up with a shit game . . . repeatedly.
We're setting frickin' records for badness.
CLEVELAND -- There are bad losses and there are painful losses.
But in Johnny Manziel's first start, the Cleveland Browns put an historic loss on the field, up there with the worst of the many historic Browns losses since the team returned to the field in 1999. It came in a big game, at a time when a much-hyped quarterback was supposed to give a spark as Cleveland made a final playoff push.
All the talk all week was Manziel this and Manziel that. But everyone forgot that the other team has a say, and those with the Browns who felt Manziel would give the Browns a better chance to win have some seriously bad numbers to digest following a 30-0 loss Sunday.
Among them:
- The Browns were shut out for the first time since November of 2009.
- Manziel becomes the sixth quarterback in the last 20 years to be shut out in his first start, and the first since Rusty Smith of Tennessee in 2010. The others: Dave Ragone of Houston (2003), Henry Burris of Chicago (2002), Spergon Wynn of Cleveland (2000) and Danny Wuerffel of New Orleans (1997).
- Manziel is the 21st starting quarterback for the Browns since 1999, and the fifth to be shut out in his first start. The others: Ty Detmer in the first game back in ’99, Bruce Gradkowski, Wynn and Doug Pederson. Pederson and Gradkowski joined the Browns the week before starting because of injuries to the starter.
- The offense had more than 100 yards for the day only because the Bengals scored a touchdown with 30 seconds left. The Browns got a final play with 18 seconds left and Manziel threw a slip screen for nine yards.
- To that point, the offense had the ball nine times, and had seven three-play possessions. Three of those were for negative yards.
- The Browns ran 38 offensive plays, the fewest by any team this season and fewest by the Browns since Week 1 of 1999, when they ran 28 plays against the Steelers in a 43-0 loss.
There's some kind of lackadaisical attitude or mentality in this Team that needs to be rooted out and done away with.
I thought we'd addressed this for the most part with some of the come back games we've had, but apparently it seems to rule supreme during the tail end of our Seasons.
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had to stop watching this game for a bit cause this is just a Shiite mess. But what's become clear is that we don't have the personnel in place in a lot of key areas. I'm not suggesting a firesale where we sell off for shit, but we need to start shopping pretty much everyone we can get anything for. Even guys that are playing well. Even longtime Browns like JT.
Anybody on offense or defense save for our secondary...shop em!! Especially on the front seven..this just isn't working. The Bengals had 100 yds 2 minutes into the 2nd quarter. And this is the recurring theme all season. The only guy on the entire front seven I would want to hang on to is Robertson and only because he's been playing alright but we're still not gonna get a whole lot for him. Even Kruger if someone makes us a nice offer. I hate to say that cause he's one of the guys playing decently well but he's also one of the guys that someone "might" give us something for.
The front seven is just a sieve we will NOT be making any playoff push's with anytime soon. We have a window now where we have a secondary that could quite possibly be the best in the NFL save perhaps for Seattle. We're gonna waste that window with this front seven that doesn't stop the run and doesn't really get to the QB much. We need to rebuild the front now.
O line also needs either a full redo or at least a partial one. How many games have we seen DL living in our backfield? Yet another game we're seeing them meeting our QB at the handoff. That's a structural problem not procedural. Just the wrong people. And if any of you were paying attention to the announcers you heard one of the guys make a key observation that we don't get to see on the TV's.....none of our WR'ers are making moves to the open fields when Johnny was spilling out of the pocket. Maybe our whole WR corp needs an overhaul as well cause this game of all games was not one where we could afford lazy ass wr's that don't do what even D3 college wr'ers do. Maybe this is the Gordon effect that his lazy fucking ass is rubbing off on the other guys? I dunno.
We just need to get what we can. It's clear Pettine and Shanahan aren't going to get much done with this personnel. Gotta let em rebuild.
had to stop watching this game for a bit cause this is just a Shiite mess. But what's become clear is that we don't have the personnel in place in a lot of key areas. I'm not suggesting a firesale where we sell off for shit, but we need to start shopping pretty much everyone we can get anything for. Even guys that are playing well. Even longtime Browns like JT.
Anybody on offense or defense save for our secondary...shop em!! Especially on the front seven..this just isn't working. The Bengals had 100 yds 2 minutes into the 2nd quarter. And this is the recurring theme all season. The only guy on the entire front seven I would want to hang on to is Robertson and only because he's been playing alright but we're still not gonna get a whole lot for him. Even Kruger if someone makes us a nice offer. I hate to say that cause he's one of the guys playing decently well but he's also one of the guys that someone "might" give us something for.
The front seven is just a sieve we will NOT be making any playoff push's with anytime soon. We have a window now where we have a secondary that could quite possibly be the best in the NFL save perhaps for Seattle. We're gonna waste that window with this front seven that doesn't stop the run and doesn't really get to the QB much. We need to rebuild the front now.
O line also needs either a full redo or at least a partial one. How many games have we seen DL living in our backfield? Yet another game we're seeing them meeting our QB at the handoff. That's a structural problem not procedural. Just the wrong people. And if any of you were paying attention to the announcers you heard one of the guys make a key observation that we don't get to see on the TV's.....none of our WR'ers are making moves to the open fields when Johnny was spilling out of the pocket. Maybe our whole WR corp needs an overhaul as well cause this game of all games was not one where we could afford lazy ass wr's that don't do what even D3 college wr'ers do. Maybe this is the Gordon effect that his lazy fucking ass is rubbing off on the other guys? I dunno.
We just need to get what we can. It's clear Pettine and Shanahan aren't going to get much done with this personnel. Gotta let em rebuild.
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