sell off the o line and front seven in the offseason...
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this thread is a joke.
i guess indy's offense is a joke correct? weren't half of you faggots pointing out the fact that Indy's offensive puts up more numbers blah blah blah and OMG watch out for andrew luck and what did we do? the browns defense played lights out. lights out enough for even espn commentators say the browns should have won but didn't because hoyer was so bad.
so now after a division rival who we embrassed some weeks ago comes in and whoops our ass, let's sell off the whole team, let's get rid of key contributors on both sides of the ball.
remember beating cicni? why they couldn't run on us? yeah we had the DL infused with taylor who is a major key on our line in stopping the run. you want to draft DL? hell get me 2 in the first round. OL give me three.
the days of the RBs and WRs going in the top ten are soon coming to an end and lineman and to see 10 lineman taken in the top 2o next year...........might not be that big of a stretch.
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this thread is a joke.
i guess indy's offense is a joke correct? weren't half of you faggots pointing out the fact that Indy's offensive puts up more numbers blah blah blah and OMG watch out for andrew luck and what did we do? the browns defense played lights out. lights out enough for even espn commentators say the browns should have won but didn't because hoyer was so bad.
so now after a division rival who we embrassed some weeks ago comes in and whoops our ass, let's sell off the whole team, let's get rid of key contributors on both sides of the ball.
remember beating cicni? why they couldn't run on us? yeah we had the DL infused with taylor who is a major key on our line in stopping the run. you want to draft DL? hell get me 2 in the first round. OL give me three.
the days of the RBs and WRs going in the top ten are soon coming to an end and lineman and to see 10 lineman taken in the top 2o next year...........might not be that big of a stretch.
this thread is a joke.
i guess indy's offense is a joke correct? weren't half of you faggots pointing out the fact that Indy's offensive puts up more numbers blah blah blah and OMG watch out for andrew luck and what did we do? the browns defense played lights out. lights out enough for even espn commentators say the browns should have won but didn't because hoyer was so bad.
so now after a division rival who we embrassed some weeks ago comes in and whoops our ass, let's sell off the whole team, let's get rid of key contributors on both sides of the ball.
remember beating cicni? why they couldn't run on us? yeah we had the DL infused with taylor who is a major key on our line in stopping the run. you want to draft DL? hell get me 2 in the first round. OL give me three.
the days of the RBs and WRs going in the top ten are soon coming to an end and lineman and to see 10 lineman taken in the top 2o next year...........might not be that big of a stretch.
That's the point.
We play like than and follow up with a shit game . . . repeatedly.
We're setting frickin' records for badness.
CLEVELAND -- There are bad losses and there are painful losses.
But in Johnny Manziel's first start, the Cleveland Browns put an historic loss on the field, up there with the worst of the many historic Browns losses since the team returned to the field in 1999. It came in a big game, at a time when a much-hyped quarterback was supposed to give a spark as Cleveland made a final playoff push.
All the talk all week was Manziel this and Manziel that. But everyone forgot that the other team has a say, and those with the Browns who felt Manziel would give the Browns a better chance to win have some seriously bad numbers to digest following a 30-0 loss Sunday.
Among them:
- The Browns were shut out for the first time since November of 2009.
- Manziel becomes the sixth quarterback in the last 20 years to be shut out in his first start, and the first since Rusty Smith of Tennessee in 2010. The others: Dave Ragone of Houston (2003), Henry Burris of Chicago (2002), Spergon Wynn of Cleveland (2000) and Danny Wuerffel of New Orleans (1997).
- Manziel is the 21st starting quarterback for the Browns since 1999, and the fifth to be shut out in his first start. The others: Ty Detmer in the first game back in ’99, Bruce Gradkowski, Wynn and Doug Pederson. Pederson and Gradkowski joined the Browns the week before starting because of injuries to the starter.
- The offense had more than 100 yards for the day only because the Bengals scored a touchdown with 30 seconds left. The Browns got a final play with 18 seconds left and Manziel threw a slip screen for nine yards.
- To that point, the offense had the ball nine times, and had seven three-play possessions. Three of those were for negative yards.
- The Browns ran 38 offensive plays, the fewest by any team this season and fewest by the Browns since Week 1 of 1999, when they ran 28 plays against the Steelers in a 43-0 loss.
There's some kind of lackadaisical attitude or mentality in this Team that needs to be rooted out and done away with.
I thought we'd addressed this for the most part with some of the come back games we've had, but apparently it seems to rule supreme during the tail end of our Seasons.
-
had to stop watching this game for a bit cause this is just a Shiite mess. But what's become clear is that we don't have the personnel in place in a lot of key areas. I'm not suggesting a firesale where we sell off for shit, but we need to start shopping pretty much everyone we can get anything for. Even guys that are playing well. Even longtime Browns like JT.
Anybody on offense or defense save for our secondary...shop em!! Especially on the front seven..this just isn't working. The Bengals had 100 yds 2 minutes into the 2nd quarter. And this is the recurring theme all season. The only guy on the entire front seven I would want to hang on to is Robertson and only because he's been playing alright but we're still not gonna get a whole lot for him. Even Kruger if someone makes us a nice offer. I hate to say that cause he's one of the guys playing decently well but he's also one of the guys that someone "might" give us something for.
The front seven is just a sieve we will NOT be making any playoff push's with anytime soon. We have a window now where we have a secondary that could quite possibly be the best in the NFL save perhaps for Seattle. We're gonna waste that window with this front seven that doesn't stop the run and doesn't really get to the QB much. We need to rebuild the front now.
O line also needs either a full redo or at least a partial one. How many games have we seen DL living in our backfield? Yet another game we're seeing them meeting our QB at the handoff. That's a structural problem not procedural. Just the wrong people. And if any of you were paying attention to the announcers you heard one of the guys make a key observation that we don't get to see on the TV's.....none of our WR'ers are making moves to the open fields when Johnny was spilling out of the pocket. Maybe our whole WR corp needs an overhaul as well cause this game of all games was not one where we could afford lazy ass wr's that don't do what even D3 college wr'ers do. Maybe this is the Gordon effect that his lazy fucking ass is rubbing off on the other guys? I dunno.
We just need to get what we can. It's clear Pettine and Shanahan aren't going to get much done with this personnel. Gotta let em rebuild.
had to stop watching this game for a bit cause this is just a Shiite mess. But what's become clear is that we don't have the personnel in place in a lot of key areas. I'm not suggesting a firesale where we sell off for shit, but we need to start shopping pretty much everyone we can get anything for. Even guys that are playing well. Even longtime Browns like JT.
Anybody on offense or defense save for our secondary...shop em!! Especially on the front seven..this just isn't working. The Bengals had 100 yds 2 minutes into the 2nd quarter. And this is the recurring theme all season. The only guy on the entire front seven I would want to hang on to is Robertson and only because he's been playing alright but we're still not gonna get a whole lot for him. Even Kruger if someone makes us a nice offer. I hate to say that cause he's one of the guys playing decently well but he's also one of the guys that someone "might" give us something for.
The front seven is just a sieve we will NOT be making any playoff push's with anytime soon. We have a window now where we have a secondary that could quite possibly be the best in the NFL save perhaps for Seattle. We're gonna waste that window with this front seven that doesn't stop the run and doesn't really get to the QB much. We need to rebuild the front now.
O line also needs either a full redo or at least a partial one. How many games have we seen DL living in our backfield? Yet another game we're seeing them meeting our QB at the handoff. That's a structural problem not procedural. Just the wrong people. And if any of you were paying attention to the announcers you heard one of the guys make a key observation that we don't get to see on the TV's.....none of our WR'ers are making moves to the open fields when Johnny was spilling out of the pocket. Maybe our whole WR corp needs an overhaul as well cause this game of all games was not one where we could afford lazy ass wr's that don't do what even D3 college wr'ers do. Maybe this is the Gordon effect that his lazy fucking ass is rubbing off on the other guys? I dunno.
We just need to get what we can. It's clear Pettine and Shanahan aren't going to get much done with this personnel. Gotta let em rebuild.
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WHAT!?!? Oh, but keep "the future (jm)??? Shop that guy! We'll get a lot, then we'll get mack back & we'll be back to contending after our draft pick nets us a defensive lineman. I saw no potential in manziel today. Not a pocket passer. Not going to work. We've been duped.
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Not sure how this turned into a blow everything up thread. We are 7-7 and have a chance for the first winning (or 500) season since 2007. A lot of the suggestions in this thread have been to create more holes (trading Thomas, Kruger, Bryant) than we already have which is absolutely insane. As far as I'm aware we are well under the salary cap going into next offseason even with contracts going up for our previous signings.
Injuries have completely derailed our season on each side of the ball. We need to get more depth on both sides of the line. I think if we had better depth we would be in a much better place now, which is what we should focus on for next season.
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As I mentioned in my first post on here, I'm a Packers fan with a strong, and perhaps unexplainable, appreciation of the Browns. Today I had to endure both watching both teams struggle like crazy.
The Packers' D finally showed up today, holding the Bills to 4 field goals despite taking the field inside their own 30 and at midfield when Rodgers threw his interceptions.
The passing offense was absolutely pathetic, considering it is widely recognized as one of the best in the league.
I did not come on here to complain about the Packers passing game, it's clearly not the place to do so, but to hopefully provide some perspective.
The Browns have one of the league's best and most consistent left tackles with a fairly team friendly cap hit for the next four seasons. They have one of the best centers in the league who will be back next season, and a very promising rookie guard who will only get better with time. I cannot provide judgment on Greco since I don't follow his play too closely. The weak link is obviously Schwartz, who was consistently getting beat by Dunlap.
On the defensive side of the ball, Phil Taylor is one of the best nose tackles in the league and will be back from injury next year. Bryant and Kruger were both expensive free agent acquisitions, but they are quality players at their respective positions, albeit slightly overpaid. Mingo flashes potential and then disappears for long stretches while Sheard is a pretty good pass rusher. The inside linebackers are nothing to write home about, but they are decent players nonetheless.
I am used to my team consistently winning double digit games per season, so I can see why people would be frustrated with how the season is turning out, but it's important to realize that this is year 1 of a new regime. The Browns clearly have issues at multiple positions but they should be able to fill these needs in free agency and during the draft so the future looks bright if they can get any form of stability at QB.
The way I see it, these three games are a try-out for Manziel. It's a chance to see what works for him in this offensive system and what areas of his game still need work so a plan can be put in the place in the offseason to get the most out of him next season and make sure this team gets back in the playoffs.
As I mentioned in my first post on here, I'm a Packers fan with a strong, and perhaps unexplainable, appreciation of the Browns. Today I had to endure both watching both teams struggle like crazy.
The Packers' D finally showed up today, holding the Bills to 4 field goals despite taking the field inside their own 30 and at midfield when Rodgers threw his interceptions.
The passing offense was absolutely pathetic, considering it is widely recognized as one of the best in the league.
I did not come on here to complain about the Packers passing game, it's clearly not the place to do so, but to hopefully provide some perspective.
The Browns have one of the league's best and most consistent left tackles with a fairly team friendly cap hit for the next four seasons. They have one of the best centers in the league who will be back next season, and a very promising rookie guard who will only get better with time. I cannot provide judgment on Greco since I don't follow his play too closely. The weak link is obviously Schwartz, who was consistently getting beat by Dunlap.
On the defensive side of the ball, Phil Taylor is one of the best nose tackles in the league and will be back from injury next year. Bryant and Kruger were both expensive free agent acquisitions, but they are quality players at their respective positions, albeit slightly overpaid. Mingo flashes potential and then disappears for long stretches while Sheard is a pretty good pass rusher. The inside linebackers are nothing to write home about, but they are decent players nonetheless.
I am used to my team consistently winning double digit games per season, so I can see why people would be frustrated with how the season is turning out, but it's important to realize that this is year 1 of a new regime. The Browns clearly have issues at multiple positions but they should be able to fill these needs in free agency and during the draft so the future looks bright if they can get any form of stability at QB.
The way I see it, these three games are a try-out for Manziel. It's a chance to see what works for him in this offensive system and what areas of his game still need work so a plan can be put in the place in the offseason to get the most out of him next season and make sure this team gets back in the playoffs.
Gtfo. We don't want reason we want blood.
Early man walked away as modern man took control. Their minds weren't all the same and to conquer was their goal. So He built his great empires and he slaughtered his own kind, and he died a confused man and killed himself in his own mind... -
this thread is a joke.
i guess indy's offense is a joke correct? weren't half of you faggots pointing out the fact that Indy's offensive puts up more numbers blah blah blah and OMG watch out for andrew luck and what did we do? the browns defense played lights out. lights out enough for even espn commentators say the browns should have won but didn't because hoyer was so bad.
so now after a division rival who we embrassed some weeks ago comes in and whoops our ass, let's sell off the whole team, let's get rid of key contributors on both sides of the ball.
remember beating cicni? why they couldn't run on us? yeah we had the DL infused with taylor who is a major key on our line in stopping the run. you want to draft DL? hell get me 2 in the first round. OL give me three.
the days of the RBs and WRs going in the top ten are soon coming to an end and lineman and to see 10 lineman taken in the top 2o next year...........might not be that big of a stretch.
That's the point.
We play like than and follow up with a shit game . . . repeatedly.
We're setting frickin' records for badness.
CLEVELAND -- There are bad losses and there are painful losses.
But in Johnny Manziel's first start, the Cleveland Browns put an historic loss on the field, up there with the worst of the many historic Browns losses since the team returned to the field in 1999. It came in a big game, at a time when a much-hyped quarterback was supposed to give a spark as Cleveland made a final playoff push.
All the talk all week was Manziel this and Manziel that. But everyone forgot that the other team has a say, and those with the Browns who felt Manziel would give the Browns a better chance to win have some seriously bad numbers to digest following a 30-0 loss Sunday.
Among them:
- The Browns were shut out for the first time since November of 2009.
- Manziel becomes the sixth quarterback in the last 20 years to be shut out in his first start, and the first since Rusty Smith of Tennessee in 2010. The others: Dave Ragone of Houston (2003), Henry Burris of Chicago (2002), Spergon Wynn of Cleveland (2000) and Danny Wuerffel of New Orleans (1997).
- Manziel is the 21st starting quarterback for the Browns since 1999, and the fifth to be shut out in his first start. The others: Ty Detmer in the first game back in ’99, Bruce Gradkowski, Wynn and Doug Pederson. Pederson and Gradkowski joined the Browns the week before starting because of injuries to the starter.
- The offense had more than 100 yards for the day only because the Bengals scored a touchdown with 30 seconds left. The Browns got a final play with 18 seconds left and Manziel threw a slip screen for nine yards.
- To that point, the offense had the ball nine times, and had seven three-play possessions. Three of those were for negative yards.
- The Browns ran 38 offensive plays, the fewest by any team this season and fewest by the Browns since Week 1 of 1999, when they ran 28 plays against the Steelers in a 43-0 loss.
There's some kind of lackadaisical attitude or mentality in this Team that needs to be rooted out and done away with.
I thought we'd addressed this for the most part with some of the come back games we've had, but apparently it seems to rule supreme during the tail end of our Seasons.
That's the point.
We play like than and follow up with a shit game . . . repeatedly.
We're setting frickin' records for badness.
There's some kind of lackadaisical attitude or mentality in this Team that needs to be rooted out and done away with.
I thought we'd addressed this for the most part with some of the come back games we've had, but apparently it seems to rule supreme during the tail end of our Seasons.
The difference between the defense vs colts and today against the Bengals? Run defense. The colts can't run the ball and the browns secondary is top 5 in the nfl when healthy. How did Dalton do today? 117 yards and 1 INT. Injuries have piled up on the d line this yr. Make it a priority next year and we will be fine. Most wins in 7 years and you want to blow it up. What a bitch..
-
That's the point.
We play like than and follow up with a shit game . . . repeatedly.
We're setting frickin' records for badness.
There's some kind of lackadaisical attitude or mentality in this Team that needs to be rooted out and done away with.
I thought we'd addressed this for the most part with some of the come back games we've had, but apparently it seems to rule supreme during the tail end of our Seasons.
The difference between the defense vs colts and today against the Bengals? Run defense. The colts can't run the ball and the browns secondary is top 5 in the nfl when healthy. How did Dalton do today? 117 yards and 1 INT. Injuries have piled up on the d line this yr. Make it a priority next year and we will be fine. Most wins in 7 years and you want to blow it up. What a bitch..
The difference between the defense vs colts and today against the Bengals? Run defense. The colts can't run the ball and the browns secondary is top 5 in the nfl when healthy. How did Dalton do today? 117 yards and 1 INT. Injuries have piled up on the d line this yr. Make it a priority next year and we will be fine. Most wins in 7 years and you want to blow it up. What a bitch..
I didn't start this thread, but I do believe we need some serious housecleaning.
There have been entirely too many important games where this Team just comes out flat expecting to win - those folks need to go.
-
As I mentioned in my first post on here, I'm a Packers fan with a strong, and perhaps unexplainable, appreciation of the Browns. Today I had to endure both watching both teams struggle like crazy.
The Packers' D finally showed up today, holding the Bills to 4 field goals despite taking the field inside their own 30 and at midfield when Rodgers threw his interceptions.
The passing offense was absolutely pathetic, considering it is widely recognized as one of the best in the league.
I did not come on here to complain about the Packers passing game, it's clearly not the place to do so, but to hopefully provide some perspective.
The Browns have one of the league's best and most consistent left tackles with a fairly team friendly cap hit for the next four seasons. They have one of the best centers in the league who will be back next season, and a very promising rookie guard who will only get better with time. I cannot provide judgment on Greco since I don't follow his play too closely. The weak link is obviously Schwartz, who was consistently getting beat by Dunlap.
On the defensive side of the ball, Phil Taylor is one of the best nose tackles in the league and will be back from injury next year. Bryant and Kruger were both expensive free agent acquisitions, but they are quality players at their respective positions, albeit slightly overpaid. Mingo flashes potential and then disappears for long stretches while Sheard is a pretty good pass rusher. The inside linebackers are nothing to write home about, but they are decent players nonetheless.
I am used to my team consistently winning double digit games per season, so I can see why people would be frustrated with how the season is turning out, but it's important to realize that this is year 1 of a new regime. The Browns clearly have issues at multiple positions but they should be able to fill these needs in free agency and during the draft so the future looks bright if they can get any form of stability at QB.
The way I see it, these three games are a try-out for Manziel. It's a chance to see what works for him in this offensive system and what areas of his game still need work so a plan can be put in the place in the offseason to get the most out of him next season and make sure this team gets back in the playoffs.
Gtfo. We don't want reason we want blood.
Gtfo. We don't want reason we want blood.
Haha easy man! I'm just as pissed as you are, probably more so since I had to experience two losses but blood won't get you anywhere...
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The difference between the defense vs colts and today against the Bengals? Run defense. The colts can't run the ball and the browns secondary is top 5 in the nfl when healthy. How did Dalton do today? 117 yards and 1 INT. Injuries have piled up on the d line this yr. Make it a priority next year and we will be fine. Most wins in 7 years and you want to blow it up. What a bitch..
I didn't start this thread, but I do believe we need some serious housecleaning.
There have been entirely too many important games where this Team just comes out flat expecting to win - those folks need to go.
I didn't start this thread, but I do believe we need some serious housecleaning.
There have been entirely too many important games where this Team just comes out flat expecting to win - those folks need to go.
And whom would that be specifically?
-
-
The difference between the defense vs colts and today against the Bengals? Run defense. The colts can't run the ball and the browns secondary is top 5 in the nfl when healthy. How did Dalton do today? 117 yards and 1 INT. Injuries have piled up on the d line this yr. Make it a priority next year and we will be fine. Most wins in 7 years and you want to blow it up. What a bitch..
I didn't start this thread, but I do believe we need some serious housecleaning.
There have been entirely too many important games where this Team just comes out flat expecting to win - those folks need to go.
-
The difference between the defense vs colts and today against the Bengals? Run defense. The colts can't run the ball and the browns secondary is top 5 in the nfl when healthy. How did Dalton do today? 117 yards and 1 INT. Injuries have piled up on the d line this yr. Make it a priority next year and we will be fine. Most wins in 7 years and you want to blow it up. What a bitch..
I didn't start this thread, but I do believe we need some serious housecleaning.
There have been entirely too many important games where this Team just comes out flat expecting to win - those folks need to go.
I didn't start this thread, but I do believe we need some serious housecleaning.
There have been entirely too many important games where this Team just comes out flat expecting to win - those folks need to go.
Yeah, or the talent just isn't there and when it finally is - they are promptly injured.
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If our front 7 is the problem, why would we trade any our best players for an unproven rookie?
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Present your case other then "you disagree"...... "highly"
He can't... so give him a break.
Injuries are going to happen. We need to be in a better position to fill-in for those injuries. A good backup C and someone that can compete with Schwartz at RT would be good. The D-line just needs an interior Run-stuffer to prevent blockers from so easily getting to the second level...
High pick to demote a starter to back-up, Day 2 picks to compete or Day 3's and UDFA's in search of a gem. Or all the above... plenty of room available as we have not seen a single back-up step up to anything approaching a level of competence.
Only McDaniel started showing signs of being good enough to get by... and that was after weeks of play. McQuistan and Seymore have been unmitigated disasters.
but this isn't knee jerk. You can say the D line has been decimated, but this is what we've seen from them for the most part, since opening day.
Wow... how long would it take me to find posts within the last week about our showing against Indy?
Today I saw Poa and Kitchen in there side by side way too many times. That's a new level of decimation in my book. Add that the only decent blows the D got all game were halftime and the late second QTR "flag-a-thon drive", and safe to say they wore down some.
It's knee-jerk...
Wow... how long would it take me to find posts within the last week about our showing against Indy?
Today I saw Poa and Kitchen in there side by side way too many times. That's a new level of decimation in my book. Add that the only decent blows the D got all game were halftime and the late second QTR "flag-a-thon drive", and safe to say they wore down some.
It's knee-jerk...
wow one game, and remember we did let Indy score 25 points..so it wasn't a complete shut down. This run problem has been going on all year, c'mon you know that we've been over this before.
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Yes. Lets stay shitty on run defense and defense in general because its not a fucking cleveland thing to have a bad ass DL like Suh.
Yes. Lets stay shitty on run defense and defense in general because its not a fucking cleveland thing to have a bad ass DL like Suh.
I'd have Suh for reasonable money...not 20m. That's absurd. 7-8m fine, not 20.
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Giving a DB that kind of money, when you draft Gilbert 8th, in this "hands off" league is nuts. Haden has been up and down this season but overall has been good. He's gonna be a $12 to $14 million hit over the next few years.
In other words Haden's hit will rise at a much slower percentage rate than the cap? Isn't that a good thing?
dunno, which is why we wouldn't get rid of him unless someone wsa really desperate for a LT and came up out of their pockets. I'm not saying firesale this. But we have to start shopping.
Shopping players is a fire sale...
Zombo said:
Nothing wrong with this team that a quarterback wouldnt solve.
We are 7-6 with a mediocre one, and 0-1 while starting little mascots.
Laughter thru the pain...
There is something terribly wrong with this Team, and they may need to completely clean house (and I mean get rid of everyone) and start all over again to get to the bottom of it.
OMFG... please tell me someone hacked your account.
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strategic rebuild is in order in my mind. The defensive scheme needs tweaked/changed and in my mind most of the front 7 has vastly underperformed basic defensive functions this year. They've had some games where they were good, but in some of those games our offense was producing and forced the opposing offense to get away from the run. Had every team this year stuck with the run we might be sitting at 2 wins. That's for real. Credit our early offensive production otherwise we would have been talking draft by week 6. IF it wren't for our secondary..say if our secondary was only mediocre, this would have been an historically bad defense. No question in my mind. Early in the year teams had to start throwing early otherwise they would have kept our defense on the field way too much for most of the season. I'm glad as hell now we gave Haden what he wanted.
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