sell off the o line and front seven in the offseason...
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If our front 7 is the problem, why would we trade any our best players for an unproven rookie?
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Present your case other then "you disagree"...... "highly"
He can't... so give him a break.
Injuries are going to happen. We need to be in a better position to fill-in for those injuries. A good backup C and someone that can compete with Schwartz at RT would be good. The D-line just needs an interior Run-stuffer to prevent blockers from so easily getting to the second level...
High pick to demote a starter to back-up, Day 2 picks to compete or Day 3's and UDFA's in search of a gem. Or all the above... plenty of room available as we have not seen a single back-up step up to anything approaching a level of competence.
Only McDaniel started showing signs of being good enough to get by... and that was after weeks of play. McQuistan and Seymore have been unmitigated disasters.
but this isn't knee jerk. You can say the D line has been decimated, but this is what we've seen from them for the most part, since opening day.
Wow... how long would it take me to find posts within the last week about our showing against Indy?
Today I saw Poa and Kitchen in there side by side way too many times. That's a new level of decimation in my book. Add that the only decent blows the D got all game were halftime and the late second QTR "flag-a-thon drive", and safe to say they wore down some.
It's knee-jerk...
Wow... how long would it take me to find posts within the last week about our showing against Indy?
Today I saw Poa and Kitchen in there side by side way too many times. That's a new level of decimation in my book. Add that the only decent blows the D got all game were halftime and the late second QTR "flag-a-thon drive", and safe to say they wore down some.
It's knee-jerk...
wow one game, and remember we did let Indy score 25 points..so it wasn't a complete shut down. This run problem has been going on all year, c'mon you know that we've been over this before.
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Yes. Lets stay shitty on run defense and defense in general because its not a fucking cleveland thing to have a bad ass DL like Suh.
Yes. Lets stay shitty on run defense and defense in general because its not a fucking cleveland thing to have a bad ass DL like Suh.
I'd have Suh for reasonable money...not 20m. That's absurd. 7-8m fine, not 20.
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Giving a DB that kind of money, when you draft Gilbert 8th, in this "hands off" league is nuts. Haden has been up and down this season but overall has been good. He's gonna be a $12 to $14 million hit over the next few years.
In other words Haden's hit will rise at a much slower percentage rate than the cap? Isn't that a good thing?
dunno, which is why we wouldn't get rid of him unless someone wsa really desperate for a LT and came up out of their pockets. I'm not saying firesale this. But we have to start shopping.
Shopping players is a fire sale...
Zombo said:
Nothing wrong with this team that a quarterback wouldnt solve.
We are 7-6 with a mediocre one, and 0-1 while starting little mascots.
Laughter thru the pain...
There is something terribly wrong with this Team, and they may need to completely clean house (and I mean get rid of everyone) and start all over again to get to the bottom of it.
OMFG... please tell me someone hacked your account.
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strategic rebuild is in order in my mind. The defensive scheme needs tweaked/changed and in my mind most of the front 7 has vastly underperformed basic defensive functions this year. They've had some games where they were good, but in some of those games our offense was producing and forced the opposing offense to get away from the run. Had every team this year stuck with the run we might be sitting at 2 wins. That's for real. Credit our early offensive production otherwise we would have been talking draft by week 6. IF it wren't for our secondary..say if our secondary was only mediocre, this would have been an historically bad defense. No question in my mind. Early in the year teams had to start throwing early otherwise they would have kept our defense on the field way too much for most of the season. I'm glad as hell now we gave Haden what he wanted.
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I quit watching in the 2nd after the commercials and flags, it was just too much.
I quit watching in the 2nd after the commercials and flags, it was just too much.
Did you play with your Johnny blow up doll?
I highly disagree with that statement. Thomas is over rated.
Can't believe the stupidity of that one.....
I'll make the case that while Thomas may not be quite "overrated", he's getting close. Now is the time to shop him to a team that needs a LT. We're starting to see his decline but maybe some other team can be persuaded to give up something we desperately need. I don't "want" to give up JT, but we should see what the interest is.
Thomas is not for sale- at almost any price. He's not the problem.
Kruger has elevated his game quite a bit this season. Haden, until him being hurt today and one TD given up to HIlton, has had one of the better 5-6 game stretches in the NFL.
You fucking people have to be joking about trading these two.
AJ Green shut down again.
Said last week when your QB is getting Sacked by a 3 Man rush you've got more than QB issues.
Team never showed up today, D or O.
There is something terribly wrong with this Team, and they may need to completely clean house (and I mean get rid of everyone) and start all over again to get to the bottom of it.
Knee jerk reaction much?
I'd have Suh for reasonable money...not 20m. That's absurd. 7-8m fine, not 20.
Suh will not be had for reasonable money.
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I quit watching in the 2nd after the commercials and flags, it was just too much.
Did you play with your Johnny blow up doll?
I highly disagree with that statement. Thomas is over rated.
Can't believe the stupidity of that one.....
I'll make the case that while Thomas may not be quite "overrated", he's getting close. Now is the time to shop him to a team that needs a LT. We're starting to see his decline but maybe some other team can be persuaded to give up something we desperately need. I don't "want" to give up JT, but we should see what the interest is.
Thomas is not for sale- at almost any price. He's not the problem.
Kruger has elevated his game quite a bit this season. Haden, until him being hurt today and one TD given up to HIlton, has had one of the better 5-6 game stretches in the NFL.
You fucking people have to be joking about trading these two.
AJ Green shut down again.
Said last week when your QB is getting Sacked by a 3 Man rush you've got more than QB issues.
Team never showed up today, D or O.
There is something terribly wrong with this Team, and they may need to completely clean house (and I mean get rid of everyone) and start all over again to get to the bottom of it.
Knee jerk reaction much?
I'd have Suh for reasonable money...not 20m. That's absurd. 7-8m fine, not 20.
Suh will not be had for reasonable money.
Thomas is not for sale- at almost any price. He's not the problem.
Suh will not be had for reasonable money.
1) Didn't say he was the problem, but looking at people on the team with trade value..he's one of the top. "IF" we were to trade him...now would be the time. He's peaked. He'll maintain for another year "maybe" two....but by then we'll get nothing for him .
2) completely agree, which is why I don't want him. Was just saying, I'd have him for reasonable money..maybe even reasonable +. But 20m, if that figure is correct that he's looking for, is joker money. I'm not even sure Watt is worth 20m. 20m is like our entire front line right now.
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The difference between the defense vs colts and today against the Bengals? Run defense. The colts can't run the ball and the browns secondary is top 5 in the nfl when healthy. How did Dalton do today? 117 yards and 1 INT. Injuries have piled up on the d line this yr. Make it a priority next year and we will be fine. Most wins in 7 years and you want to blow it up. What a bitch..
I didn't start this thread, but I do believe we need some serious housecleaning.
There have been entirely too many important games where this Team just comes out flat expecting to win - those folks need to go.
I didn't start this thread, but I do believe we need some serious housecleaning.
There have been entirely too many important games where this Team just comes out flat expecting to win - those folks need to go.
Indicates you think they are playing poorly because "they expect" to win. Then says "they" need to go....so who is "they" and how do you know we're playing poorly because we "expect" to win?
Wow.
So you all think we come out ready play each and every game - color me mistaken
No, I dont. But I also dont think it's because no ones trying or we need to cut people. Looks like injuries, play execution and a revolving door of players might be a more LIKELY reason.
So, who do we cut???? or get rid of??? and if you say ask the coaches again, Ill tell you they've already decided and this is the team///
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I didn't start this thread, but I do believe we need some serious housecleaning.
There have been entirely too many important games where this Team just comes out flat expecting to win - those folks need to go.
Indicates you think they are playing poorly because "they expect" to win. Then says "they" need to go....so who is "they" and how do you know we're playing poorly because we "expect" to win?
Wow.
So you all think we come out ready play each and every game - color me mistaken
No, I dont. But I also dont think it's because no ones trying or we need to cut people. Looks like injuries, play execution and a revolving door of players might be a more LIKELY reason.
So, who do we cut???? or get rid of??? and if you say ask the coaches again, Ill tell you they've already decided and this is the team///
.
So, who do we cut???? or get rid of??? and if you say ask the coaches again, Ill tell you they've already decided and this is the team///
I agree the coaches can't go anywhere if for the only reason that if they are let go I think we seriously risk losing the Browns. Best case nobody wants to coach for us and all we get is D3 guys auditioning for a chance to go back to d1 or d2. It will be that bad.
For me I can't say right now who we cut or trade, cause I don't know what we could potentially get in return. I only mentioned guys like Kruger and Bryant because they're really the only guys on the front seven who might have some trade value. Who knows. We have to retool the scheme and personnel...whoever doesn't fit or who's contract is running up etc, etc...is who goes.
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@hoorta - knee jerk would be saying I enjoyed my Sundays when there were no Browns and I didn't watch the NFL and that I'd be going back to that.
This is pissed at the continued poor efforts we continue to see in games they should be ready for.
@Manzier - "they" are the players that take plays off and may have (Locker room) attitude problems that we don't see, but other players/Coaches do.
Injuries? Sure to an extent, but we normally rotate players throughout the game, so the revolving door issue shouldn't be that much of a factor - in fact I think we had one of our better games with a lot of subs in.
The short of it at this point is the Season's over.
Here on out is evaluation mode.
Tate was cut earlier for apparent attitude issues and the fact we have a pretty full stable of RB's - other positions are a bit short handed, so they may have held on to some that would otherwise be gone.
Nothing is going to happen immediately, but I fully expect to see quite a few trades / cuts this up coming Off Season.
This may well give an indication of inherent problems.
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Gordon's complete trade bait imo. I'm done seeing that cunt loaf around and only try real hard when the balls coming his way. I completely agree with JAFBF, some of these guys loafing around on both sides of the ball have to go.
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I quit watching in the 2nd after the commercials and flags, it was just too much.
Did you play with your Johnny blow up doll?
I highly disagree with that statement. Thomas is over rated.
Can't believe the stupidity of that one.....
I'll make the case that while Thomas may not be quite "overrated", he's getting close. Now is the time to shop him to a team that needs a LT. We're starting to see his decline but maybe some other team can be persuaded to give up something we desperately need. I don't "want" to give up JT, but we should see what the interest is.
Thomas is not for sale- at almost any price. He's not the problem.
Kruger has elevated his game quite a bit this season. Haden, until him being hurt today and one TD given up to HIlton, has had one of the better 5-6 game stretches in the NFL.
You fucking people have to be joking about trading these two.
AJ Green shut down again.
Said last week when your QB is getting Sacked by a 3 Man rush you've got more than QB issues.
Team never showed up today, D or O.
There is something terribly wrong with this Team, and they may need to completely clean house (and I mean get rid of everyone) and start all over again to get to the bottom of it.
Knee jerk reaction much?
I'd have Suh for reasonable money...not 20m. That's absurd. 7-8m fine, not 20.
Suh will not be had for reasonable money.
Did you play with your Johnny blow up doll?
Can't believe the stupidity of that one.....
Thomas is not for sale- at almost any price. He's not the problem.
AJ Green shut down again.
Knee jerk reaction much?
Suh will not be had for reasonable money.
Whatever you say oh wise one. I don't see anything great from Thomas. He gets beat out quite a bit and makes stupid penalties.
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this thread is a joke.
i guess indy's offense is a joke correct? weren't half of you faggots pointing out the fact that Indy's offensive puts up more numbers blah blah blah and OMG watch out for andrew luck and what did we do? the browns defense played lights out. lights out enough for even espn commentators say the browns should have won but didn't because hoyer was so bad.
so now after a division rival who we embrassed some weeks ago comes in and whoops our ass, let's sell off the whole team, let's get rid of key contributors on both sides of the ball.
remember beating cicni? why they couldn't run on us? yeah we had the DL infused with taylor who is a major key on our line in stopping the run. you want to draft DL? hell get me 2 in the first round. OL give me three.
the days of the RBs and WRs going in the top ten are soon coming to an end and lineman and to see 10 lineman taken in the top 2o next year...........might not be that big of a stretch.
remember beating cicni? why they couldn't run on us? yeah we had the DL infused with taylor who is a major key on our line in stopping the run. you want to draft DL? hell get me 2 in the first round. OL give me three.
the days of the RBs and WRs going in the top ten are soon coming to an end and lineman and to see 10 lineman taken in the top 2o next year...........might not be that big of a stretch.
Or maybe a combo of draft and FA pickups. Thinking that filling our line problems with all rookies might not be the best. Nitpicking though. I'm with you on linemen first and foremost.
As for AJ Green being shutdown and secondary playing well...seeing that our run defense was non-existent and Dalton barely did anything...yeah there isn't much to go on.
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That's the point.
We play like than and follow up with a shit game . . . repeatedly.
We're setting frickin' records for badness.
There's some kind of lackadaisical attitude or mentality in this Team that needs to be rooted out and done away with.
I thought we'd addressed this for the most part with some of the come back games we've had, but apparently it seems to rule supreme during the tail end of our Seasons.
The difference between the defense vs colts and today against the Bengals? Run defense. The colts can't run the ball and the browns secondary is top 5 in the nfl when healthy. How did Dalton do today? 117 yards and 1 INT. Injuries have piled up on the d line this yr. Make it a priority next year and we will be fine. Most wins in 7 years and you want to blow it up. What a bitch..
The difference between the defense vs colts and today against the Bengals? Run defense. The colts can't run the ball and the browns secondary is top 5 in the nfl when healthy. How did Dalton do today? 117 yards and 1 INT.
Wait! So you are genuinely expecting us to buy that match-ups play a role in game outcomes???
OK...
Coaches job to root that out.
I thought you fired the coaches first???
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
The difference between the defense vs colts and today against the Bengals? Run defense. The colts can't run the ball and the browns secondary is top 5 in the nfl when healthy. How did Dalton do today? 117 yards and 1 INT.
Wait! So you are genuinely expecting us to buy that match-ups play a role in game outcomes???
OK...
Coaches job to root that out.
I thought you fired the coaches first???
Wait! So you are genuinely expecting us to buy that match-ups play a role in game outcomes???
OK...
I thought you fired the coaches first???
Never fired the Coaches, I'm torqued at the Players.
Ya know, it's been nearly a full day since I went off on this . . . and I still pretty much feel the same.
Okay, maybe not clear out the WHOLE Team, but there are definite elements that aren't right in that Locker room.
Thing is, listening to the Radio and reading some articles . . . they're seeing and talking about the exact same thing I'm PO'd about (and more).
This staff has made some progress in changing things, but it is their first year and there's only so much they can do.
Now we've got a full Season, plus these next two games to do some heavy duty evaluation.
I really do expect some serious turnover to be forthcoming.
On the Radio they're talking about going over the Roster and doing a Stay or Go . . . saying there's probably a lot more Go than Stay.
Manziel's badness I'm not even referring too - he's still a Rookie, though after 14/15 weeks I expected a little more.
Yeah, he was bad, but there was no support cast.
This actually reflects on the decline of Hoyer and how/why his mechanics went to crap - Team has fallen off.
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Nothing wrong with this team that a quarterback wouldnt solve.
We are 7-6 with a mediocre one, and 0-1 while starting little mascots.
Z
Zombo said:
Nothing wrong with this team that a quarterback wouldnt solve.
We are 7-6 with a mediocre one, and 0-1 while starting little mascots.
Z
What is your preferred course of action, Zombo?
I agree with your assessment but wonder about your preferred way to remedy the - perhaps premature - dearth at the QB position.
IMHO, Hoyer was a starter only because the Browns were DESPERATE for a QB. Arguably, he was the worse starter in the league. Certainly in the bottom 3-5. There is nothing wrong with being a perennial backup and that, IMHO, is what Hoyer is suited for. A number of NFL teams agree.
Now that we can brush this aside, do you prefer the Browns draft another QB or pursue somebody from another team - starter or a young backup ready to 'break out"?
I believe the team will stick with JF for next season, at least. I don't believe they are ready to eat all that crow - at least not yet.
What are your thoughts?
"God is great. Beer is good. People are crazy." -
Zombo said:
Nothing wrong with this team that a quarterback wouldnt solve.
We are 7-6 with a mediocre one, and 0-1 while starting little mascots.
Z
What is your preferred course of action, Zombo?
I agree with your assessment but wonder about your preferred way to remedy the - perhaps premature - dearth at the QB position.
IMHO, Hoyer was a starter only because the Browns were DESPERATE for a QB. Arguably, he was the worse starter in the league. Certainly in the bottom 3-5. There is nothing wrong with being a perennial backup and that, IMHO, is what Hoyer is suited for. A number of NFL teams agree.
Now that we can brush this aside, do you prefer the Browns draft another QB or pursue somebody from another team - starter or a young backup ready to 'break out"?
I believe the team will stick with JF for next season, at least. I don't believe they are ready to eat all that crow - at least not yet.
What are your thoughts?
IMHO, Hoyer was a starter only because the Browns were DESPERATE for a QB. Arguably, he was the worse starter in the league. Certainly in the bottom 3-5. There is nothing wrong with being a perennial backup and that, IMHO, is what Hoyer is suited for. A number of NFL teams agree.
Not Z, but that's never stopped me before...
Slight disagreement... I think Hoyer spiraled down to be a bad starting QB, maybe the worst. But at one time he was among the best, certainly for what we needed.
From here...
1. Look for a vet in FA (including Hoyer); and
2. Look for a steal in the draft... always have to draft the QB you think offers the best combination of potential and value for your circumstance.
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IMHO, Hoyer was a starter only because the Browns were DESPERATE for a QB. Arguably, he was the worse starter in the league. Certainly in the bottom 3-5. There is nothing wrong with being a perennial backup and that, IMHO, is what Hoyer is suited for. A number of NFL teams agree.
Not Z, but that's never stopped me before...
Slight disagreement... I think Hoyer spiraled down to be a bad starting QB, maybe the worst. But at one time he was among the best, certainly for what we needed.
From here...
1. Look for a vet in FA (including Hoyer); and
2. Look for a steal in the draft... always have to draft the QB you think offers the best combination of potential and value for your circumstance.
Not Z, but that's never stopped me before...
Slight disagreement... I think Hoyer spiraled down to be a bad starting QB, maybe the worst. But at one time he was among the best, certainly for what we needed.
From here...
1. Look for a vet in FA (including Hoyer); and
2. Look for a steal in the draft... always have to draft the QB you think offers the best combination of potential and value for your circumstance.
Small point but there is NO WAY Manziel and Hoyer are on the same team next season. And that would be The Browns
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