sell off the o line and front seven in the offseason...
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I quit watching in the 2nd after the commercials and flags, it was just too much.
Did you play with your Johnny blow up doll?
I highly disagree with that statement. Thomas is over rated.
Can't believe the stupidity of that one.....
I'll make the case that while Thomas may not be quite "overrated", he's getting close. Now is the time to shop him to a team that needs a LT. We're starting to see his decline but maybe some other team can be persuaded to give up something we desperately need. I don't "want" to give up JT, but we should see what the interest is.
Thomas is not for sale- at almost any price. He's not the problem.
Kruger has elevated his game quite a bit this season. Haden, until him being hurt today and one TD given up to HIlton, has had one of the better 5-6 game stretches in the NFL.
You fucking people have to be joking about trading these two.
AJ Green shut down again.
Said last week when your QB is getting Sacked by a 3 Man rush you've got more than QB issues.
Team never showed up today, D or O.
There is something terribly wrong with this Team, and they may need to completely clean house (and I mean get rid of everyone) and start all over again to get to the bottom of it.
Knee jerk reaction much?
I'd have Suh for reasonable money...not 20m. That's absurd. 7-8m fine, not 20.
Suh will not be had for reasonable money.
Thomas is not for sale- at almost any price. He's not the problem.
Suh will not be had for reasonable money.
1) Didn't say he was the problem, but looking at people on the team with trade value..he's one of the top. "IF" we were to trade him...now would be the time. He's peaked. He'll maintain for another year "maybe" two....but by then we'll get nothing for him .
2) completely agree, which is why I don't want him. Was just saying, I'd have him for reasonable money..maybe even reasonable +. But 20m, if that figure is correct that he's looking for, is joker money. I'm not even sure Watt is worth 20m. 20m is like our entire front line right now.
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The difference between the defense vs colts and today against the Bengals? Run defense. The colts can't run the ball and the browns secondary is top 5 in the nfl when healthy. How did Dalton do today? 117 yards and 1 INT. Injuries have piled up on the d line this yr. Make it a priority next year and we will be fine. Most wins in 7 years and you want to blow it up. What a bitch..
I didn't start this thread, but I do believe we need some serious housecleaning.
There have been entirely too many important games where this Team just comes out flat expecting to win - those folks need to go.
I didn't start this thread, but I do believe we need some serious housecleaning.
There have been entirely too many important games where this Team just comes out flat expecting to win - those folks need to go.
Indicates you think they are playing poorly because "they expect" to win. Then says "they" need to go....so who is "they" and how do you know we're playing poorly because we "expect" to win?
Wow.
So you all think we come out ready play each and every game - color me mistaken
No, I dont. But I also dont think it's because no ones trying or we need to cut people. Looks like injuries, play execution and a revolving door of players might be a more LIKELY reason.
So, who do we cut???? or get rid of??? and if you say ask the coaches again, Ill tell you they've already decided and this is the team///
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I didn't start this thread, but I do believe we need some serious housecleaning.
There have been entirely too many important games where this Team just comes out flat expecting to win - those folks need to go.
Indicates you think they are playing poorly because "they expect" to win. Then says "they" need to go....so who is "they" and how do you know we're playing poorly because we "expect" to win?
Wow.
So you all think we come out ready play each and every game - color me mistaken
No, I dont. But I also dont think it's because no ones trying or we need to cut people. Looks like injuries, play execution and a revolving door of players might be a more LIKELY reason.
So, who do we cut???? or get rid of??? and if you say ask the coaches again, Ill tell you they've already decided and this is the team///
.
So, who do we cut???? or get rid of??? and if you say ask the coaches again, Ill tell you they've already decided and this is the team///
I agree the coaches can't go anywhere if for the only reason that if they are let go I think we seriously risk losing the Browns. Best case nobody wants to coach for us and all we get is D3 guys auditioning for a chance to go back to d1 or d2. It will be that bad.
For me I can't say right now who we cut or trade, cause I don't know what we could potentially get in return. I only mentioned guys like Kruger and Bryant because they're really the only guys on the front seven who might have some trade value. Who knows. We have to retool the scheme and personnel...whoever doesn't fit or who's contract is running up etc, etc...is who goes.
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@hoorta - knee jerk would be saying I enjoyed my Sundays when there were no Browns and I didn't watch the NFL and that I'd be going back to that.
This is pissed at the continued poor efforts we continue to see in games they should be ready for.
@Manzier - "they" are the players that take plays off and may have (Locker room) attitude problems that we don't see, but other players/Coaches do.
Injuries? Sure to an extent, but we normally rotate players throughout the game, so the revolving door issue shouldn't be that much of a factor - in fact I think we had one of our better games with a lot of subs in.
The short of it at this point is the Season's over.
Here on out is evaluation mode.
Tate was cut earlier for apparent attitude issues and the fact we have a pretty full stable of RB's - other positions are a bit short handed, so they may have held on to some that would otherwise be gone.
Nothing is going to happen immediately, but I fully expect to see quite a few trades / cuts this up coming Off Season.
This may well give an indication of inherent problems.
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Gordon's complete trade bait imo. I'm done seeing that cunt loaf around and only try real hard when the balls coming his way. I completely agree with JAFBF, some of these guys loafing around on both sides of the ball have to go.
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I quit watching in the 2nd after the commercials and flags, it was just too much.
Did you play with your Johnny blow up doll?
I highly disagree with that statement. Thomas is over rated.
Can't believe the stupidity of that one.....
I'll make the case that while Thomas may not be quite "overrated", he's getting close. Now is the time to shop him to a team that needs a LT. We're starting to see his decline but maybe some other team can be persuaded to give up something we desperately need. I don't "want" to give up JT, but we should see what the interest is.
Thomas is not for sale- at almost any price. He's not the problem.
Kruger has elevated his game quite a bit this season. Haden, until him being hurt today and one TD given up to HIlton, has had one of the better 5-6 game stretches in the NFL.
You fucking people have to be joking about trading these two.
AJ Green shut down again.
Said last week when your QB is getting Sacked by a 3 Man rush you've got more than QB issues.
Team never showed up today, D or O.
There is something terribly wrong with this Team, and they may need to completely clean house (and I mean get rid of everyone) and start all over again to get to the bottom of it.
Knee jerk reaction much?
I'd have Suh for reasonable money...not 20m. That's absurd. 7-8m fine, not 20.
Suh will not be had for reasonable money.
Did you play with your Johnny blow up doll?
Can't believe the stupidity of that one.....
Thomas is not for sale- at almost any price. He's not the problem.
AJ Green shut down again.
Knee jerk reaction much?
Suh will not be had for reasonable money.
Whatever you say oh wise one. I don't see anything great from Thomas. He gets beat out quite a bit and makes stupid penalties.
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this thread is a joke.
i guess indy's offense is a joke correct? weren't half of you faggots pointing out the fact that Indy's offensive puts up more numbers blah blah blah and OMG watch out for andrew luck and what did we do? the browns defense played lights out. lights out enough for even espn commentators say the browns should have won but didn't because hoyer was so bad.
so now after a division rival who we embrassed some weeks ago comes in and whoops our ass, let's sell off the whole team, let's get rid of key contributors on both sides of the ball.
remember beating cicni? why they couldn't run on us? yeah we had the DL infused with taylor who is a major key on our line in stopping the run. you want to draft DL? hell get me 2 in the first round. OL give me three.
the days of the RBs and WRs going in the top ten are soon coming to an end and lineman and to see 10 lineman taken in the top 2o next year...........might not be that big of a stretch.
remember beating cicni? why they couldn't run on us? yeah we had the DL infused with taylor who is a major key on our line in stopping the run. you want to draft DL? hell get me 2 in the first round. OL give me three.
the days of the RBs and WRs going in the top ten are soon coming to an end and lineman and to see 10 lineman taken in the top 2o next year...........might not be that big of a stretch.
Or maybe a combo of draft and FA pickups. Thinking that filling our line problems with all rookies might not be the best. Nitpicking though. I'm with you on linemen first and foremost.
As for AJ Green being shutdown and secondary playing well...seeing that our run defense was non-existent and Dalton barely did anything...yeah there isn't much to go on.
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That's the point.
We play like than and follow up with a shit game . . . repeatedly.
We're setting frickin' records for badness.
There's some kind of lackadaisical attitude or mentality in this Team that needs to be rooted out and done away with.
I thought we'd addressed this for the most part with some of the come back games we've had, but apparently it seems to rule supreme during the tail end of our Seasons.
The difference between the defense vs colts and today against the Bengals? Run defense. The colts can't run the ball and the browns secondary is top 5 in the nfl when healthy. How did Dalton do today? 117 yards and 1 INT. Injuries have piled up on the d line this yr. Make it a priority next year and we will be fine. Most wins in 7 years and you want to blow it up. What a bitch..
The difference between the defense vs colts and today against the Bengals? Run defense. The colts can't run the ball and the browns secondary is top 5 in the nfl when healthy. How did Dalton do today? 117 yards and 1 INT.
Wait! So you are genuinely expecting us to buy that match-ups play a role in game outcomes???
OK...
Coaches job to root that out.
I thought you fired the coaches first???
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
The difference between the defense vs colts and today against the Bengals? Run defense. The colts can't run the ball and the browns secondary is top 5 in the nfl when healthy. How did Dalton do today? 117 yards and 1 INT.
Wait! So you are genuinely expecting us to buy that match-ups play a role in game outcomes???
OK...
Coaches job to root that out.
I thought you fired the coaches first???
Wait! So you are genuinely expecting us to buy that match-ups play a role in game outcomes???
OK...
I thought you fired the coaches first???
Never fired the Coaches, I'm torqued at the Players.
Ya know, it's been nearly a full day since I went off on this . . . and I still pretty much feel the same.
Okay, maybe not clear out the WHOLE Team, but there are definite elements that aren't right in that Locker room.
Thing is, listening to the Radio and reading some articles . . . they're seeing and talking about the exact same thing I'm PO'd about (and more).
This staff has made some progress in changing things, but it is their first year and there's only so much they can do.
Now we've got a full Season, plus these next two games to do some heavy duty evaluation.
I really do expect some serious turnover to be forthcoming.
On the Radio they're talking about going over the Roster and doing a Stay or Go . . . saying there's probably a lot more Go than Stay.
Manziel's badness I'm not even referring too - he's still a Rookie, though after 14/15 weeks I expected a little more.
Yeah, he was bad, but there was no support cast.
This actually reflects on the decline of Hoyer and how/why his mechanics went to crap - Team has fallen off.
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Nothing wrong with this team that a quarterback wouldnt solve.
We are 7-6 with a mediocre one, and 0-1 while starting little mascots.
Z
Zombo said:
Nothing wrong with this team that a quarterback wouldnt solve.
We are 7-6 with a mediocre one, and 0-1 while starting little mascots.
Z
What is your preferred course of action, Zombo?
I agree with your assessment but wonder about your preferred way to remedy the - perhaps premature - dearth at the QB position.
IMHO, Hoyer was a starter only because the Browns were DESPERATE for a QB. Arguably, he was the worse starter in the league. Certainly in the bottom 3-5. There is nothing wrong with being a perennial backup and that, IMHO, is what Hoyer is suited for. A number of NFL teams agree.
Now that we can brush this aside, do you prefer the Browns draft another QB or pursue somebody from another team - starter or a young backup ready to 'break out"?
I believe the team will stick with JF for next season, at least. I don't believe they are ready to eat all that crow - at least not yet.
What are your thoughts?
"God is great. Beer is good. People are crazy." -
Zombo said:
Nothing wrong with this team that a quarterback wouldnt solve.
We are 7-6 with a mediocre one, and 0-1 while starting little mascots.
Z
What is your preferred course of action, Zombo?
I agree with your assessment but wonder about your preferred way to remedy the - perhaps premature - dearth at the QB position.
IMHO, Hoyer was a starter only because the Browns were DESPERATE for a QB. Arguably, he was the worse starter in the league. Certainly in the bottom 3-5. There is nothing wrong with being a perennial backup and that, IMHO, is what Hoyer is suited for. A number of NFL teams agree.
Now that we can brush this aside, do you prefer the Browns draft another QB or pursue somebody from another team - starter or a young backup ready to 'break out"?
I believe the team will stick with JF for next season, at least. I don't believe they are ready to eat all that crow - at least not yet.
What are your thoughts?
IMHO, Hoyer was a starter only because the Browns were DESPERATE for a QB. Arguably, he was the worse starter in the league. Certainly in the bottom 3-5. There is nothing wrong with being a perennial backup and that, IMHO, is what Hoyer is suited for. A number of NFL teams agree.
Not Z, but that's never stopped me before...
Slight disagreement... I think Hoyer spiraled down to be a bad starting QB, maybe the worst. But at one time he was among the best, certainly for what we needed.
From here...
1. Look for a vet in FA (including Hoyer); and
2. Look for a steal in the draft... always have to draft the QB you think offers the best combination of potential and value for your circumstance.
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IMHO, Hoyer was a starter only because the Browns were DESPERATE for a QB. Arguably, he was the worse starter in the league. Certainly in the bottom 3-5. There is nothing wrong with being a perennial backup and that, IMHO, is what Hoyer is suited for. A number of NFL teams agree.
Not Z, but that's never stopped me before...
Slight disagreement... I think Hoyer spiraled down to be a bad starting QB, maybe the worst. But at one time he was among the best, certainly for what we needed.
From here...
1. Look for a vet in FA (including Hoyer); and
2. Look for a steal in the draft... always have to draft the QB you think offers the best combination of potential and value for your circumstance.
Not Z, but that's never stopped me before...
Slight disagreement... I think Hoyer spiraled down to be a bad starting QB, maybe the worst. But at one time he was among the best, certainly for what we needed.
From here...
1. Look for a vet in FA (including Hoyer); and
2. Look for a steal in the draft... always have to draft the QB you think offers the best combination of potential and value for your circumstance.
Small point but there is NO WAY Manziel and Hoyer are on the same team next season. And that would be The Browns
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Not Z, but that's never stopped me before...
Slight disagreement... I think Hoyer spiraled down to be a bad starting QB, maybe the worst. But at one time he was among the best, certainly for what we needed.
From here...
1. Look for a vet in FA (including Hoyer); and
2. Look for a steal in the draft... always have to draft the QB you think offers the best combination of potential and value for your circumstance.
Small point but there is NO WAY Manziel and Hoyer are on the same team next season. And that would be The Browns
I think there's a pretty good chance we keep hoyer around if manziel suckz these last 2.Small point but there is NO WAY Manziel and Hoyer are on the same team next season. And that would be The Browns
The only reason for not was the disconnect he had with Hoyer, which appears to be media BS.
A vet who knows the system and has done well in it. Definitely an asset to have, over some of the alternatives. (Grossman? Cousins?)
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Zombo said:
Nothing wrong with this team that a quarterback wouldnt solve.
We are 7-6 with a mediocre one, and 0-1 while starting little mascots.
Z
What is your preferred course of action, Zombo?
I agree with your assessment but wonder about your preferred way to remedy the - perhaps premature - dearth at the QB position.
IMHO, Hoyer was a starter only because the Browns were DESPERATE for a QB. Arguably, he was the worse starter in the league. Certainly in the bottom 3-5. There is nothing wrong with being a perennial backup and that, IMHO, is what Hoyer is suited for. A number of NFL teams agree.
Now that we can brush this aside, do you prefer the Browns draft another QB or pursue somebody from another team - starter or a young backup ready to 'break out"?
I believe the team will stick with JF for next season, at least. I don't believe they are ready to eat all that crow - at least not yet.
What are your thoughts?
What is your preferred course of action, Zombo?
I agree with your assessment but wonder about your preferred way to remedy the - perhaps premature - dearth at the QB position.
IMHO, Hoyer was a starter only because the Browns were DESPERATE for a QB. Arguably, he was the worse starter in the league. Certainly in the bottom 3-5. There is nothing wrong with being a perennial backup and that, IMHO, is what Hoyer is suited for. A number of NFL teams agree.
Now that we can brush this aside, do you prefer the Browns draft another QB or pursue somebody from another team - starter or a young backup ready to 'break out"?
I believe the team will stick with JF for next season, at least. I don't believe they are ready to eat all that crow - at least not yet.
What are your thoughts?
Sign a veteran reliable QB in the offseason who can start a season for you if you need him to. Hoyer would be a candidate but there is someone who is probably a better fit for Shanny's offense who will be out there.
Draft a QB again in the first three rounds. It 's the most important position, you gotta keep doing it until you get it right.
Let all three compete until there is a clear cut best QB, hand the team over to him, and if he's not franchise material bu the end of the year, keep trying.
You can't really trade for a franchise QB, and they rarely become free agents ... you just gotta keep drafting.
Last year my plan was to draft Savage from Pitt and let him sit behind Hoyer. This year, there will be someone else I like. And maybe Johnny ... yeah, I doubt it.
Zombo
-
What is your preferred course of action, Zombo?
I agree with your assessment but wonder about your preferred way to remedy the - perhaps premature - dearth at the QB position.
IMHO, Hoyer was a starter only because the Browns were DESPERATE for a QB. Arguably, he was the worse starter in the league. Certainly in the bottom 3-5. There is nothing wrong with being a perennial backup and that, IMHO, is what Hoyer is suited for. A number of NFL teams agree.
Now that we can brush this aside, do you prefer the Browns draft another QB or pursue somebody from another team - starter or a young backup ready to 'break out"?
I believe the team will stick with JF for next season, at least. I don't believe they are ready to eat all that crow - at least not yet.
What are your thoughts?
Sign a veteran reliable QB in the offseason who can start a season for you if you need him to. Hoyer would be a candidate but there is someone who is probably a better fit for Shanny's offense who will be out there.
Draft a QB again in the first three rounds. It 's the most important position, you gotta keep doing it until you get it right.
Let all three compete until there is a clear cut best QB, hand the team over to him, and if he's not franchise material bu the end of the year, keep trying.
You can't really trade for a franchise QB, and they rarely become free agents ... you just gotta keep drafting.
Last year my plan was to draft Savage from Pitt and let him sit behind Hoyer. This year, there will be someone else I like. And maybe Johnny ... yeah, I doubt it.
Zombo
Zombo said:
Sign a veteran reliable QB in the offseason who can start a season for you if you need him to. Hoyer would be a candidate but there is someone who is probably a better fit for Shanny's offense who will be out there.
Draft a QB again in the first three rounds. It 's the most important position, you gotta keep doing it until you get it right.
Let all three compete until there is a clear cut best QB, hand the team over to him, and if he's not franchise material bu the end of the year, keep trying.
You can't really trade for a franchise QB, and they rarely become free agents ... you just gotta keep drafting.
Last year my plan was to draft Savage from Pitt and let him sit behind Hoyer. This year, there will be someone else I like. And maybe Johnny ... yeah, I doubt it.
Zombo
Not talking RG III here I hope, not sure I'd want that in here.
QB in Draft next year, as long as it's not 1st round - there's nothing there this time without selling the Farm, and even then we really need to see if what we have will work with supporting cast.
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Zombo said:
Sign a veteran reliable QB in the offseason who can start a season for you if you need him to. Hoyer would be a candidate but there is someone who is probably a better fit for Shanny's offense who will be out there.
Draft a QB again in the first three rounds. It 's the most important position, you gotta keep doing it until you get it right.
Let all three compete until there is a clear cut best QB, hand the team over to him, and if he's not franchise material bu the end of the year, keep trying.
You can't really trade for a franchise QB, and they rarely become free agents ... you just gotta keep drafting.
Last year my plan was to draft Savage from Pitt and let him sit behind Hoyer. This year, there will be someone else I like. And maybe Johnny ... yeah, I doubt it.
Zombo
Not talking RG III here I hope, not sure I'd want that in here.
QB in Draft next year, as long as it's not 1st round - there's nothing there this time without selling the Farm, and even then we really need to see if what we have will work with supporting cast.
Not talking RG III here I hope, not sure I'd want that in here.
QB in Draft next year, as long as it's not 1st round - there's nothing there this time without selling the Farm, and even then we really need to see if what we have will work with supporting cast.
No I don't want RG3 and I'm pretty sure Shanny doesn't either.
Zombo
-
What is your preferred course of action, Zombo?
I agree with your assessment but wonder about your preferred way to remedy the - perhaps premature - dearth at the QB position.
IMHO, Hoyer was a starter only because the Browns were DESPERATE for a QB. Arguably, he was the worse starter in the league. Certainly in the bottom 3-5. There is nothing wrong with being a perennial backup and that, IMHO, is what Hoyer is suited for. A number of NFL teams agree.
Now that we can brush this aside, do you prefer the Browns draft another QB or pursue somebody from another team - starter or a young backup ready to 'break out"?
I believe the team will stick with JF for next season, at least. I don't believe they are ready to eat all that crow - at least not yet.
What are your thoughts?
Sign a veteran reliable QB in the offseason who can start a season for you if you need him to. Hoyer would be a candidate but there is someone who is probably a better fit for Shanny's offense who will be out there.
Draft a QB again in the first three rounds. It 's the most important position, you gotta keep doing it until you get it right.
Let all three compete until there is a clear cut best QB, hand the team over to him, and if he's not franchise material bu the end of the year, keep trying.
You can't really trade for a franchise QB, and they rarely become free agents ... you just gotta keep drafting.
Last year my plan was to draft Savage from Pitt and let him sit behind Hoyer. This year, there will be someone else I like. And maybe Johnny ... yeah, I doubt it.
Zombo
Zombo said:
Sign a veteran reliable QB in the offseason who can start a season for you if you need him to. Hoyer would be a candidate but there is someone who is probably a better fit for Shanny's offense who will be out there.
Draft a QB again in the first three rounds. It 's the most important position, you gotta keep doing it until you get it right.
Let all three compete until there is a clear cut best QB, hand the team over to him, and if he's not franchise material bu the end of the year, keep trying.
You can't really trade for a franchise QB, and they rarely become free agents ... you just gotta keep drafting.
Last year my plan was to draft Savage from Pitt and let him sit behind Hoyer. This year, there will be someone else I like. And maybe Johnny ... yeah, I doubt it.
Zombo
Years ago, the Browns hired Paul Warfield to scout the college ranks for a WR
His - and the Browns' - choice was a relatively unknown WR from San Diego State (could be wrong about that) named Webster Slaughter.
I am not saying WRs = QBs, but, why not hire somebody with a track record of knowing what the hail he is doing and do the same thing for QBs?
It looks like the FO might have shit the bed (once again) in last year's draft.
You are probably right but I doubt the Browns draft a QB in Rounds 1-3 next year. Maybe not at all simply because they don't want to look stupid last draft. Maybe they choose be stupid, simply to avoid being perceived as stupid.
JF starts next year simply because of what I just said. Hopefully, it will be a pleasant outcome.
M-E-S-S
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