Jonathan Paul Manziel
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Just me or is there a lot of the same, non-royal "we" and "us" and "team as a whole" type stuff found to be so off-putting from Hoyer.
It's just you. I listened to the presser and it was quite obvious he is being down on himself saying he has to do better etc etc etc. I realize haters gonna hate but in this instance I think you are purposely misrepresenting what he said.Just me or is there a lot of the same, non-royal "we" and "us" and "team as a whole" type stuff found to be so off-putting from Hoyer.
Because you aren't stupid.
And if anybody had a right to blame it on a team lost this might be a good time. A team loss might be when your defense lets the opposition run at will. A team loss might include a non existent running game. A team loss might involve no return game. And a team loss would also feature terrible quarterback performance.
I didn't hear him blaming anybody else.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
JF struck the right approach. Basically, the focus is- what can I do to get better? To make us better?
I think in evaluating a young qb, you look at 4 game increments....so starting next year, look at games 1-4 and ask- did he make improvement? Then in games 5-8 next year- did he make progress on the previous 4 games?
Guys, developing a young qb is often a LONG process. Patience.
JF struck the right approach. Basically, the focus is- what can I do to get better? To make us better?
I think in evaluating a young qb, you look at 4 game increments....so starting next year, look at games 1-4 and ask- did he make improvement? Then in games 5-8 next year- did he make progress on the previous 4 games?
Guys, developing a young qb is often a LONG process. Patience.
Well, we don't have time to train midgets. Get Hoyer back out there and give us a 50/50 shot each week.
Zombo
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Shanahan was not amused. They probably said that maybe he should go out there and play qb.
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Look, I was never a huge supporter of Manziel, and I can't believe I'm the one defending him but -
- He threw a grand total of two passes before we were down 17-0. One was a catch on the out, the other should've been caught on 3rd and 13 to Hawkins. If Hawkins hangs onto that ball, Johnny is 2/2 and the drive continues
- When you're down 17 points, playaction isn't going to fool anyone
- 3/5 of the offensive line can't block, so they mush rushed 3 with a spy and put the rest in coverage because they didn't have to respect the run
- Our defensive front 7 played fucking horribly. We were consistently dominated in the trenches.
- We still lack discipline. Too many fucking penalties.
Agreed on most all of this. The only thing that worries me about his performance today was that he did nothing to impress me. Not one "wow" play at all in the game, even in garbage time.
Agreed on most all of this. The only thing that worries me about his performance today was that he did nothing to impress me. Not one "wow" play at all in the game, even in garbage time.
More than wow lacking, what worries me is the number of passes not made on time in a timing offense.
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Look, I was never a huge supporter of Manziel, and I can't believe I'm the one defending him but -
- He threw a grand total of two passes before we were down 17-0. One was a catch on the out, the other should've been caught on 3rd and 13 to Hawkins. If Hawkins hangs onto that ball, Johnny is 2/2 and the drive continues
- When you're down 17 points, playaction isn't going to fool anyone
- 3/5 of the offensive line can't block, so they mush rushed 3 with a spy and put the rest in coverage because they didn't have to respect the run
- Our defensive front 7 played fucking horribly. We were consistently dominated in the trenches.
- We still lack discipline. Too many fucking penalties.
Wow, this is exactly what I was gonna say you just said it better.
Look, I'm not a huge fan of JF. I don't like his immaturity. I think he is too small for the way he plays. I think he breaks down and tries to improvise plays too quickly. I think he is a college qb whose game won't translate well to the NFL. I thought he would be a bust, and I was pissed that we picked him. All that being said, he is our guy for now and probably next year so I am going to try and be as optimistic as I can. I think (more like hope) if we build the team we are trying to build, and he matures in his game, he could be our Russell Wilson.
Everyone saying how awful he was needs to calm down, this loss is not on him. This was one of the worst overall games I have seen by us I can remember. Everything sucked. After all the smack talk by the bungles, in a must win, playoff atmosphere, at home, to come out and play like that is disgraceful. I couldn't believe what I was seeing, it was like our whole team conspired to suck because JF was in. We were suppose to play like last week, I'd like to see what he can do with us playing at that level.
I think he breaks down and tries to improvise plays too quickly. I think he is a college qb whose game won't translate well to the NFL. I thought he would be a bust, and I was pissed that we picked him. All that being said, he is our guy for now and probably next year so I am going to try and be as optimistic as I can. I think (more like hope) if we build the team we are trying to build, and he matures in his game, he could be our Russell Wilson.
Everyone saying how awful he was needs to calm down, this loss is not on him. This was one of the worst overall games I have seen by us I can remember. Everything sucked. After all the smack talk by the bungles, in a must win, playoff atmosphere, at home, to come out and play like that is disgraceful. I couldn't believe what I was seeing, it was like our whole team conspired to suck because JF was in. We were suppose to play like last week, I'd like to see what he can do with us playing at that level.
The premature bailing out of the pocket was in evidence yesterday.
Exact same pre-draft analysis here.
Exact same post-draft hopes as well. Better skill set than Wilson. Question is "the head".
I know you are not suggesting that the whole team actually "conspired to suck", but I think it is fair to say that they were looking for inspiration from JM that never came.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Look, I was never a huge supporter of Manziel, and I can't believe I'm the one defending him but -
- He threw a grand total of two passes before we were down 17-0. One was a catch on the out, the other should've been caught on 3rd and 13 to Hawkins. If Hawkins hangs onto that ball, Johnny is 2/2 and the drive continues
- When you're down 17 points, playaction isn't going to fool anyone
- 3/5 of the offensive line can't block, so they mush rushed 3 with a spy and put the rest in coverage because they didn't have to respect the run
- Our defensive front 7 played fucking horribly. We were consistently dominated in the trenches.
- We still lack discipline. Too many fucking penalties.
Wow, this is exactly what I was gonna say you just said it better.
Look, I'm not a huge fan of JF. I don't like his immaturity. I think he is too small for the way he plays. I think he breaks down and tries to improvise plays too quickly. I think he is a college qb whose game won't translate well to the NFL. I thought he would be a bust, and I was pissed that we picked him. All that being said, he is our guy for now and probably next year so I am going to try and be as optimistic as I can. I think (more like hope) if we build the team we are trying to build, and he matures in his game, he could be our Russell Wilson.
Everyone saying how awful he was needs to calm down, this loss is not on him. This was one of the worst overall games I have seen by us I can remember. Everything sucked. After all the smack talk by the bungles, in a must win, playoff atmosphere, at home, to come out and play like that is disgraceful. I couldn't believe what I was seeing, it was like our whole team conspired to suck because JF was in. We were suppose to play like last week, I'd like to see what he can do with us playing at that level.
Wow, this is exactly what I was gonna say you just said it better.
Look, I'm not a huge fan of JF. I don't like his immaturity. I think he is too small for the way he plays. I think he breaks down and tries to improvise plays too quickly. I think he is a college qb whose game won't translate well to the NFL. I thought he would be a bust, and I was pissed that we picked him. All that being said, he is our guy for now and probably next year so I am going to try and be as optimistic as I can. I think (more like hope) if we build the team we are trying to build, and he matures in his game, he could be our Russell Wilson.
Everyone saying how awful he was needs to calm down, this loss is not on him. This was one of the worst overall games I have seen by us I can remember. Everything sucked. After all the smack talk by the bungles, in a must win, playoff atmosphere, at home, to come out and play like that is disgraceful. I couldn't believe what I was seeing, it was like our whole team conspired to suck because JF was in. We were suppose to play like last week, I'd like to see what he can do with us playing at that level.
I agree with your attitude, and I entirely agree with everything in your post minus the Russel Wilson bit. I think as much as Johnny has the mobility part down, Wilson is a much better passer and unless Johnny can get his passing skills in the pocket up to where he is great at an NFL level, he won't be comparable to Wilson.
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Besides Arron Rodgers, when has developing a QB been a long process?
Tom Brady was in there his rookie year, so were BOTH Mannings, so was Russ Wilson,
Besides Arron Rodgers, when has developing a QB been a long process?
Rodgers was ready at least one year before he started after GB had had enough of Favre's on again/ off again retirement. How much earlier than that we'll never know.
Hoyer was always just a temporary stopgap, nobody ran him out of town. He's a career backup who filled in during a qb transition. This was never about Brian hoyer,
Been hearing this for months on end. That's the problem with you Johnny-come-latelys... you come in waves.
I'm a Manziel fan but he is too short for the Big League. He lacks vision. Literally. And he will never be a Russel Wilson.
Curious as to why you think he can never be Russell...
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It's just you. I listened to the presser and it was quite obvious he is being down on himself saying he has to do better etc etc etc. I realize haters gonna hate but in this instance I think you are purposely misrepresenting what he said.Just me or is there a lot of the same, non-royal "we" and "us" and "team as a whole" type stuff found to be so off-putting from Hoyer.
Because you aren't stupid.
And if anybody had a right to blame it on a team lost this might be a good time. A team loss might be when your defense lets the opposition run at will. A team loss might include a non existent running game. A team loss might involve no return game. And a team loss would also feature terrible quarterback performance.
I didn't hear him blaming anybody else.
WSS
It's just you. I listened to the presser and it was quite obvious he is being down on himself saying he has to do better etc etc etc. I realize haters gonna hate but in this instance I think you are purposely misrepresenting what he said.
I didn't hear him blaming anybody else.
And analyzers gonna analyze...
Specific names? Correct, none mentioned save Hawk (except in passing), and Hawk's was a positive ref. But I do not feel I am misrepresenting anything, Steve. There is a fair amount of the all inclusive "We have to play better"... same as Hoyer.
Just did a count..
I's - ~18 including a surprising amount of deluded, self-appraisal, e.g. "I did not think the game was too fast for me." "I was prepared."
We's - ~22 including the above example plus, "team thing" and "we did not make plays on 3rd down."
My original point was simply that many statements were identical to those Hoyer made in his pressers. Statements that lovers here jumped upon...
Lovers gonna love...
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Well... I think Conner Shaw could have played better than Manziel did.
He wouldn't have been partying cross country like Manziel - he'd have been
working all this time to be successful when he got his chance to start.......... dammit.
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Manziel is the starter.
No where to go but up from here
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It's just you. I listened to the presser and it was quite obvious he is being down on himself saying he has to do better etc etc etc. I realize haters gonna hate but in this instance I think you are purposely misrepresenting what he said.
I didn't hear him blaming anybody else.
And analyzers gonna analyze...
Specific names? Correct, none mentioned save Hawk (except in passing), and Hawk's was a positive ref. But I do not feel I am misrepresenting anything, Steve. There is a fair amount of the all inclusive "We have to play better"... same as Hoyer.
Just did a count..
I's - ~18 including a surprising amount of deluded, self-appraisal, e.g. "I did not think the game was too fast for me." "I was prepared."
We's - ~22 including the above example plus, "team thing" and "we did not make plays on 3rd down."
My original point was simply that many statements were identical to those Hoyer made in his pressers. Statements that lovers here jumped upon...
Lovers gonna love...
Don't really see what this has to do with the original post but again you misrepresented what he had to say in the press conference. That's all.And analyzers gonna analyze...
Specific names? Correct, none mentioned save Hawk (except in passing), and Hawk's was a positive ref. But I do not feel I am misrepresenting anything, Steve. There is a fair amount of the all inclusive "We have to play better"... same as Hoyer.
Just did a count..
I's - ~18 including a surprising amount of deluded, self-appraisal, e.g. "I did not think the game was too fast for me." "I was prepared."
We's - ~22 including the above example plus, "team thing" and "we did not make plays on 3rd down."
My original point was simply that many statements were identical to those Hoyer made in his pressers. Statements that lovers here jumped upon...
Lovers gonna love...
He did not shy away from the blame.
(and from my point of view the other facets of the game or a lot worse than they were last week. A lot.)
And he sucked too.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
JFF all the way.
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We'll know a lot more after three games, not one.
Can't throw him under the bus yet.
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this could be the moment where these 2 came together for the first time. An enlightening, if you will.
JFF realizing it aint as easy as it looks and Hoyer realizing he could still be the best QB here. Then laughing because they both gonna be rich no matter how they play.
And shanny looks sour because he's realizing he needs a QB.
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Manziel's a hero, he's courageous, all-around team player.
Hoyer's all about himself, cancer in the locker room, blaming his teammates.
Whatever, the pissing on Hoyer's press conferences was only because people wanted to see Manziel...nothing else. Against ATL he only blamed himself, after that he got pulled and got asked questions in a manner to defend his position.
We've clearly seen the "Hoyer doesn't talk to Manziel", "Hoyer about to be cut", "Teammates don't like Hoyer", "Hoyer kills children" stuff, and we've clearly seen how much BS it is.
I understand benching Hoyer, but I don't understand why Cleveland wanted to trash and slander the only QB since 99' to have a winning record.
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I believe they were laughing about how Shanny thought the pistol offense would work lol
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I thought Manziel was being very honest - in the game, he hesitated, and screwed up.
I met a Bengal fan at the Dallas airport last night - I congratulated him for a great payback,
even though I only like paybacks when it's the Browns doing the paybacking...
He was a classy guy - said the Browns humiliated Dalton and the Bengals at home, and
it was the Bengals' turn - and the Browns have injuries etc. Said the Browns were getting
very close, though, to being a power in the division - which will be great next year when they
fill in a few more pieces, because they hate the Steelers.
I just think that Hawkins was the distracting factor, and let the team down in their focus.
And the Bengals were sky high with emotion - the Browns, not so much. and...
Hoyer would have played a lot better, but the Browns would still have lost.
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