John Football Excuses Forum....
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with how bad the o line played, the d got gashed, no help to manziel came at all.
A rookie qb will not single hadnedly win you games when the entire rest of the team gives in.
Drops, pressure all day, the whole offense struggled -
Why did Johnny chuckle and smile after getting hit by defenders and seeing the money sign thrown at the fans and in his face. I thought he was the type of guy to bring up teammates and get in their face for missed assignments, etc.
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with how bad the o line played, the d got gashed, no help to manziel came at all.
A rookie qb will not single hadnedly win you games when the entire rest of the team gives in.
Drops, pressure all day, the whole offense struggledA rookie qb will not single hadnedly win you games when the entire rest of the team gives in.
Unless you're the colts and get Luck (y)
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A rookie qb will not single hadnedly win you games when the entire rest of the team gives in.
Unless you're the colts and get Luck (y)
Unless you're the colts and get Luck (y)
The Colts had been sandbagging the entire previous season.
WSS
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The Colts had been sandbagging the entire previous season.
WSS
Sure seemed that way, didnt it?? Id say NFL conspiracy, but it's Irsay.
I always did wonder how they got 50 players to lay down like that and take it in the ass so their team could get a draft pick.
Seriously.
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The Colts had been sandbagging the entire previous season.
WSS
Sure seemed that way, didnt it?? Id say NFL conspiracy, but it's Irsay.
I always did wonder how they got 50 players to lay down like that and take it in the ass so their team could get a draft pick.
Seriously.
Sure seemed that way, didnt it?? Id say NFL conspiracy, but it's Irsay.
I always did wonder how they got 50 players to lay down like that and take it in the ass so their team could get a draft pick.
Seriously.
That's an extremely unpleasant possibility.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
Not even glimpses of competence in the Offense? A hint of a drive?
Not even a hint. Why would that have changed when he has even less ability to escape defenders trying to take the handoff? And he had a real defense last weekend, but would not have had any this weekend any more than JF. Same exact outcome. This was a team effort at total failure of the trenches both sides of the ball. When you do your line grading this week it will show the data back up the statement.
I said consistently that I hoped they played Hoyer on out because giving a rookie the ball when it's playoff gear-up time with 13 games less experience than the starter was just not going to be a fair measure. Once they made the change I totally support the player, but hindsight says my first instinct was right. Just look what happened early in the season to all the other QB's taken in his class when playoffs were not yet on the line.
The hard question for Pettine now is where to go from here. Do you leave him in to learn from mistakes or do you tell him we start over next summer and place it on yourself as coach?
Not even a hint. Why would that have changed when he has even less ability to escape defenders trying to take the handoff? And he had a real defense last weekend, but would not have had any this weekend any more than JF. Same exact outcome. This was a team effort at total failure of the trenches both sides of the ball. When you do your line grading this week it will show the data back up the statement.
The hard question for Pettine now is where to go from here. Do you leave him in to learn from mistakes or do you tell him we start over next summer and place it on yourself as coach?
First, you leave JM in. Playoffs gone. It's his now. Not a hard question at all.
As for O-line grades... they surprise me all the time. So we shall see...
As for hand-offs escapability... No. Dead wrong there. With BH we are not in the Pistol that produced those pressures. Do me a favor? Grade JM's read-option reads? We'll compare notes.
Well... it seems that Broadway Flop Johnny wasn't ready for primetime.
I could dismiss that easily, if they had thrown him into the fire early on.
Johnny has been too busy being Broadway, when he should have taken this
opportunity to WORK at being successful, instead of partying around all this time...
Yup... been mulling over a similar thought, cal.
When all was made about "late night, game plan sessions lasting until 02:30", I was wondering. Why the cramming?
When I crammed in college it was because I did not keep up with the course load throughout the semester. Why a "first in, last to leave" QB who has applied himself would have to cram escapes me. Even if the QB is a rookie one.
Why did Johnny chuckle and smile after getting hit by defenders and seeing the money sign thrown at the fans and in his face. I thought he was the type of guy to bring up teammates and get in their face for missed assignments, etc.
Good question...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
That's an extremely unpleasant possibility.
WSS
Elway, Manning and then Luck?
What are the odds?
Irsay has something on someone.
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I would imagine learning process is similar to learning to play a card game or a song. Playing the game or playing the song in a live situation teaches you a shit load more then looking at the chords for the rules on a sheet of paper. Not to mention that this has been the first week that Johnny Manziel has been taking reps with the first team.
And there is no evidence that he has taken anything away from his practice schedule.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
I would imagine learning process is similar to learning to play a card game or a song. Playing the game or playing the song in a live situation teaches you a shit load more then looking at the chords for the rules on a sheet of paper. Not to mention that this has been the first week that Johnny Manziel has been taking reps with the first team.
And there is no evidence that he has taken anything away from his practice schedule.
WSS
I would imagine learning process is similar to learning to play a card game or a song. Playing the game or playing the song in a live situation teaches you a shit load more then looking at the chords for the rules on a sheet of paper. Not to mention that this has been the first week that Johnny Manziel has been taking reps with the first team.
And there is no evidence that he has taken anything away from his practice schedule.
WSS
Bullshit. Johnny was getting spot reps with the 1st team way back in training camp. I saw it with my own eyes.
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I would imagine learning process is similar to learning to play a card game or a song. Playing the game or playing the song in a live situation teaches you a shit load more then looking at the chords for the rules on a sheet of paper. Not to mention that this has been the first week that Johnny Manziel has been taking reps with the first team.
And there is no evidence that he has taken anything away from his practice schedule.
WSS
Bullshit. Johnny was getting spot reps with the 1st team way back in training camp. I saw it with my own eyes.
Bullshit. Johnny was getting spot reps with the 1st team way back in training camp. I saw it with my own eyes.
Oh well then it must be true coach. And if it is maybe that's the reason Brian Hoyer has been struggling. I mean if they are splitting up the reps they're cheating the starting quarterback.
WSS
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Alright, I didn't want to make a new thread but I really sat there watching the Eagles game last night and thought over the game. Before anyone goes ape-shit, Manziel sucked. I'm not saying in any way shape or form he didn't. But here are some things I'm considering and what I'm hoping for moving forward.
-Manziel got humiliated between the money signs and media attention. Hell ESPN this morning a "mocking manziel" counter this morning (it was 6 I think). Honestly, I think that may turn out to be a good thing. Manziel got shocked into the NFL yesterday. It sucks, but perhaps it was the wake-up he and others needed to move forward. Manziel to realize he's not God's gift to the world, and Shanahan to realize the read-option nonsense doesn't work as more than a facet of a pro offense.
-The mistakes, and most noticeably the interceptions, were classic "rookie" mistakes to make. With all the media crap I know I almost forgot it was the dude's first start. Forced throw across his body and a late throw are mistakes he can learn from. I actually think being on the road may be a good thing this upcoming week.
-He's 22 years old. I'm not using that as an excuse, but I'm just throwing that up there as a stated fact.
-He did show a few flashes of what he brings to the table. Three drops didn't help his cause but twice he made a good decision to throw instead of run (both dropped).
Lastly, there's literally nowhere to go but up from here. If someone is going to play that badly, it's hopefully in their first start. It's discouraging, but that's my 2 cents.
This game will test Manziel's character. If he's strong, he will forget about it and come back ready to win in Carolina. I've seen other rookie qb's have their confidence ruined just by playing for the Browns (Couch, Weeden, Frye, etc.)
This game will test Manziel's character. If he's strong, he will forget about it and come back ready to win in Carolina. I've seen other rookie qb's have their confidence ruined just by playing for the Browns (Couch, Weeden, Frye, etc.)
Yep I agree with that 100%. Like I said he didn't just play bad he got utterly humiliated out there (so did a lot of others to be fair). Two options are to roll over or stand up, let's hope it's the latter.
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I would imagine learning process is similar to learning to play a card game or a song. Playing the game or playing the song in a live situation teaches you a shit load more then looking at the chords for the rules on a sheet of paper. Not to mention that this has been the first week that Johnny Manziel has been taking reps with the first team.
And there is no evidence that he has taken anything away from his practice schedule.
WSS
I would imagine learning process is similar to learning to play a card game or a song. Playing the game or playing the song in a live situation teaches you a shit load more then looking at the chords for the rules on a sheet of paper.
Again you miss my point? Had nothing to do with the game outcome. Was all about the prep process.
Can't reply to the song thing except that my music, be it tape, CD or Vinyl, plays the same first time as it does every time thereafter. (Yet to fire up my new Pono player tho...)
As for cards... nothing like football that I can see. Within reason you can take all the time you need to make a play. Doesn't matter the game: Bridge, Pinochle, Poker, Old Maid. Maybe in the case of War you have a point.
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How are they gonna get this kid ready in one week? Mission impossible. Sit him down before he gets killed out there!
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I would imagine learning process is similar to learning to play a card game or a song. Playing the game or playing the song in a live situation teaches you a shit load more then looking at the chords for the rules on a sheet of paper.
Again you miss my point? Had nothing to do with the game outcome. Was all about the prep process.
Can't reply to the song thing except that my music, be it tape, CD or Vinyl, plays the same first time as it does every time thereafter. (Yet to fire up my new Pono player tho...)
As for cards... nothing like football that I can see. Within reason you can take all the time you need to make a play. Doesn't matter the game: Bridge, Pinochle, Poker, Old Maid. Maybe in the case of War you have a point.
Again you miss my point? Had nothing to do with the game outcome. Was all about the prep process.
Can't reply to the song thing except that my music, be it tape, CD or Vinyl, plays the same first time as it does every time thereafter. (Yet to fire up my new Pono player tho...)
As for cards... nothing like football that I can see. Within reason you can take all the time you need to make a play. Doesn't matter the game: Bridge, Pinochle, Poker, Old Maid. Maybe in the case of War you have a point.
Actually that was Tiamat63 s point; that both quarterbacks were getting first team reps. At least that's the one I was responding to.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
Just read this article: http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/12/johnny_manziel_dmans_report_ga.html
SPOILER ALERT: Obviously since I posted the link it lends some support to my prep postulate...
Interesting insight from the outside: Manziel did not play like a quarterback who had training camp and 14 weeks to prepare for his starting debut. Maybe it is because he did not, in fact, steadily prepare as needed.
In the final minutes Sunday, as Fox showed Manziel sitting on the bench with his head down, analyst and former standout defensive back John Lynch spoke of an interaction he had with Manziel: "The best quarterbacks in this league, they're the hardest workers in the building. Johnny Manziel was, this week -- by all accounts. All year, he hasn't been. And I asked him: 'Are you willing to do that?' He said, 'Well, this week was a good start.' He was stand-up. I think he didn't argue that he hasn't been. He said, 'This was a good start.' And we'll see from here, and I think that will go a long way in determining his success.''
Obviously, Lynch saying, "I think he didn't argue that he hasn't been'' left plenty open to interpretation -- Manziel's interpretation. Manziel might counter that Lynch misunderstood that he conceded a lack of required study habits for most of the season. At the same time, Lynch is a solid analyst who doesn't open his mouth to hear himself talk, nor has he picked a side in Hoyer vs. Manziel. Lynch must have gotten his information from somewhere credible, if not Manziel, or he never would have tweaked him.
Summary: One game does not a career make, but there is no sugarcoating the Weedenesque ugliness of this one. Problems occurred around Manziel, no question, but he is most responsible for the ineffectiveness of his first NFL start. He never appeared comfortable and repeatedly made poor throws. The Bengals toyed with him; they treated Johnny Football and Money Manziel as punchlines.
Final grade: F
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
The card playing reference was this. Once we wanted to learn to play Pinochle. So a couple of us studied and studied the hoyle book games. It took like forever and we'd given up. Then we sat in with a couple guys at the Student Union and just started playing. It really went a lot easier and better than reading the book. That's all. Live game experience in my opinion is far far far superior to reading a playbook. And there's still no real evidence he didn't do that. But you get my point?
WSS
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Some people learn far better by doing, others, by reading.
Some people with learning disabilities learn by hearing a test.
Some never learn at all. Broadway Johnny best learn it quickly, by whatever method, by next
game, because the Carolina defense is a lot like the Cincy defense.
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Some people learn far better by doing, others, by reading.
Some people with learning disabilities learn by hearing a test.
Some never learn at all. Broadway Johnny best learn it quickly, by whatever method, by next
game, because the Carolina defense is a lot like the Cincy defense.
Some people learn far better by doing, others, by reading.
Some people with learning disabilities learn by hearing a test.
Some never learn at all. Broadway Johnny best learn it quickly, by whatever method, by next
game, because the Carolina defense is a lot like the Cincy defense.
Yeah, except with a way better front 7.
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Not even a hint. Why would that have changed when he has even less ability to escape defenders trying to take the handoff? And he had a real defense last weekend, but would not have had any this weekend any more than JF. Same exact outcome. This was a team effort at total failure of the trenches both sides of the ball. When you do your line grading this week it will show the data back up the statement.
The hard question for Pettine now is where to go from here. Do you leave him in to learn from mistakes or do you tell him we start over next summer and place it on yourself as coach?
First, you leave JM in. Playoffs gone. It's his now. Not a hard question at all.
As for O-line grades... they surprise me all the time. So we shall see...
As for hand-offs escapability... No. Dead wrong there. With BH we are not in the Pistol that produced those pressures. Do me a favor? Grade JM's read-option reads? We'll compare notes.
Well... it seems that Broadway Flop Johnny wasn't ready for primetime.
I could dismiss that easily, if they had thrown him into the fire early on.
Johnny has been too busy being Broadway, when he should have taken this
opportunity to WORK at being successful, instead of partying around all this time...
Yup... been mulling over a similar thought, cal.
When all was made about "late night, game plan sessions lasting until 02:30", I was wondering. Why the cramming?
When I crammed in college it was because I did not keep up with the course load throughout the semester. Why a "first in, last to leave" QB who has applied himself would have to cram escapes me. Even if the QB is a rookie one.
Why did Johnny chuckle and smile after getting hit by defenders and seeing the money sign thrown at the fans and in his face. I thought he was the type of guy to bring up teammates and get in their face for missed assignments, etc.
Good question...
First, you leave JM in. Playoffs gone. It's his now.
And with the playoffs gone and that terrible outing out of the way, the big pressure should be off.
So is the Panther game still something we need to win or has it evolved to just being a practice game for Johnny?
I would imagine learning process is similar to learning to play a card game or a song.
Playing live music is the perfect analogy! And as a drummer, I can relate 100%......cause I could practice, practice practice.....woodshed to a CD for a month.....and still be clueless when I sit in with the band for the first time.
I sometimes play with some fantastic musicians at Jam nights, but can tell you its usually a train wreck musically.....it might be fun, but definitely not pretty.....
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