Bernie's take
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I don't know if it's a "culture" thing so much, but I agree with most of what Kosar is saying. I just think the problem this year has more to do with the JF media circus than anything else. On the surface, the switch from Hoyer to JF after the Colts game made a lot of sense. The offense was tanking, making the playoffs seemed unlikely, and we had potential, untested talent in the wings at QB. Makes sense to me.What I don't get is why Hoyer (and our entire offense) started to implode after a 7-4 start. Ok, we have had some challenges on the OL, but they seemed to be holding their own. At that point, Gordon was coming back and the defense was starting to improve. WTF happened??? I can sort of understand getting shut down by the Bills, but the Colts game didn't sit well with me. With our defensive effort, we should have easily won that game. Why did our offense (not just QB) become so inept when we had so much going for us? Could the JF media circus have somehow caused this? Did mounting pressure force the coaching staff to start Manziel before he was ready? Maybe I'm reading too much into it but, unless JF turns out to be the savior, I see another year of big changes in the Browns organization. Especially knowing they'll probably end the season by losing the last 5 games (and 6 of the last 7).I like Johnny for the most part. He's a little immature, but he's a hard worker and great competitor. I just think picking him in the draft (especially in the 1st rd) was a huge mistake. That's probably why so many teams avoided him. Selling T-shirts is great, but at some point you have to back it up with wins.
Very fair question, I just think Hoyer couldn't manage the pressure of looking over his shoulder and he imploded as a result. I'd be 100% against it obviously but I actually believe Hoyer would play a good game if they put him back in now that Manziel tanked like that.
Very fair question, I just think Hoyer couldn't manage the pressure of looking over his shoulder and he imploded as a result. I'd be 100% against it obviously but I actually believe Hoyer would play a good game if they put him back in now that Manziel tanked like that.
I agree - I don't think coach Mike Pedigree nor offensive coordinator Shenanigans wanted to start Manziel. Someone above them made that call.
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Bernie is an embarrassment to the Browns organization.
Fuck you. He is a great former Cleveland Brown.
Fuck you. He is a great former Cleveland Brown.
So what. The fact he was a great former Brown means nothing in relation to his commentary on running an NFL football team. Realistically to call him "great" is a stretch anyway. His actions in recent years are an embarrassment as was previously stated. I do not question his football smarts but that in and of itself does not quality him to run or even comment on the way a team is run. If you can't see the bitterness in him because of the fact the organization wants nothing to do with him you are being purposely blind. The way the guy avoids eye contact and the camera when he as a commentator was one of the creepiest things I have ever seen.
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Very fair question, I just think Hoyer couldn't manage the pressure of looking over his shoulder and he imploded as a result. I'd be 100% against it obviously but I actually believe Hoyer would play a good game if they put him back in now that Manziel tanked like that.
I agree - I don't think coach Mike Pedigree nor offensive coordinator Shenanigans wanted to start Manziel. Someone above them made that call.
You think Ray Manuel or Jimmy Dawson wanted to start Lebron Manzealous?I agree - I don't think coach Mike Pedigree nor offensive coordinator Shenanigans wanted to start Manziel. Someone above them made that call.
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http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=cleveland-browns&id=10615
Tim Couch agrees with Bernie.
Unlike some others, I don't think Couch had what it took to be more than average. Maybe he could a had a pro bowl year on a great team and some good flashes.
No doubt the pummeling he took week after week pretty much ended his career though, which probably could a been decent.
Let's such up the hatas by whooping Carolina and Baltimore.
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http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=cleveland-browns&id=10615
Tim Couch agrees with Bernie.
Unlike some others, I don't think Couch had what it took to be more than average. Maybe he could a had a pro bowl year on a great team and some good flashes.
No doubt the pummeling he took week after week pretty much ended his career though, which probably could a been decent.
Let's such up the hatas by whooping Carolina and Baltimore.
http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=cleveland-browns&id=10615
Tim Couch agrees with Bernie.
Unlike some others, I don't think Couch had what it took to be more than average. Maybe he could a had a pro bowl year on a great team and some good flashes.
No doubt the pummeling he took week after week pretty much ended his career though, which probably could a been decent.
Let's such up the hatas by whooping Carolina and Baltimore.
Gotta agree with them. I'm tired of the same shit qb and coach carousel. Like they said, a qb isn't goibg to play lights out every game. I would agree that the mounting pressure got to hoyer.
Pettine should have just stated hoyer was the qb and keep john boy on the bench where he belongs.
The laughing on the bench pisses me off and shows that the culture still isn't right in Cleveland. Tom Brady might be a bitch, but he gets fucking pisses off when losing.
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OK, Bernie is great joke material, makes a great scrapbook photo, etc and all, but when a player his intelligence and caliber speaks, I listen, regardless of hangovers and brain-bashings. -
You had to post it again?
Bernie has no inside information on how the browns are run. He's bitter he isn't a part of the organization.
Love him or not, his take is based on bias and no real information or experience.
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Interesting. I have been scratching my head since Sunday wondering how the Browns staff could have gotten it so wrong. Clearly Sunday was NOT the time to put in a player who was in over his head. How could they have thought that he was ready? How could they have been so impatient now, when all teams are in playoff mode, to throw him to the wolves when they had been so patiently bringing him along to learn how to be a pro QB? Maybe what Bernie says has more merit than just first glance. It's far easier to just denigrate another Browns QB because it has now become "tradition". It's been obvious on this board from the moment he was drafted that he was getting the usual "Browns" welcome to the NFL, the place the rest of the nation jokingly refers to as the city where QB's come to die. Either properly let him grow into the position or trade him to someone like Dallas or Green Bay who will.
JFF has justifiably had to eat a plate full of humble pie this week. How about the staff give him a break and not make him eat two more plates full before making a premature decision for his long term future? And I agree with Bernie, it's far easier just to write off another QB rather than to look within to see what is wrong with a system that has eaten up 21 and counting since return to Cleveland.
George Santayana. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. George Santayana (16 December 1863 in Madrid, Spain – 26 September 1952 in Rome, Italy) was a philosopher, essayist, poet and novelist.
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You had to post it again?
Bernie has no inside information on how the browns are run. He's bitter he isn't a part of the organization.
Love him or not, his take is based on bias and no real information or experience.
You had to post it again?
Bernie has no inside information on how the browns are run. He's bitter he isn't a part of the organization.
Love him or not, his take is based on bias and no real information or experience.
The man was an elite NFL quarterback for many years and played for two organizations that were successful, and we're to dismiss his observations? "No real information or experience?" OK, what "real information and experience" in the NFL do YOU have?
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Interesting. I have been scratching my head since Sunday wondering how the Browns staff could have gotten it so wrong. Clearly Sunday was NOT the time to put in a player who was in over his head. How could they have thought that he was ready? How could they have been so impatient now, when all teams are in playoff mode, to throw him to the wolves when they had been so patiently bringing him along to learn how to be a pro QB? Maybe what Bernie says has more merit than just first glance. It's far easier to just denigrate another Browns QB because it has now become "tradition". It's been obvious on this board from the moment he was drafted that he was getting the usual "Browns" welcome to the NFL, the place the rest of the nation jokingly refers to as the city where QB's come to die. Either properly let him grow into the position or trade him to someone like Dallas or Green Bay who will.
JFF has justifiably had to eat a plate full of humble pie this week. How about the staff give him a break and not make him eat two more plates full before making a premature decision for his long term future? And I agree with Bernie, it's far easier just to write off another QB rather than to look within to see what is wrong with a system that has eaten up 21 and counting since return to Cleveland.
George Santayana. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. George Santayana (16 December 1863 in Madrid, Spain – 26 September 1952 in Rome, Italy) was a philosopher, essayist, poet and novelist.
Interesting. I have been scratching my head since Sunday wondering how the Browns staff could have gotten it so wrong. Clearly Sunday was NOT the time to put in a player who was in over his head. How could they have thought that he was? How could they have been so impatient now, when all teams are in playoff mode, to throw him to the wolves when they had been so patiently bringing him along to learn how to be a pro QB? Maybe what Bernie says has more merit that just first glance. It's far easier to just denigrate another Browns QB because it has now become "tradition". It's been obvious on this board from the moment he was drafted that he was getting the usual "Browns" welcome to the NFL, the place the rest of the nation jokingly refers to the city where QB's come to die. Either properly let him grow into the position or trade him to someone like Dallas or Green Bay who will.
JFF has justifiably had to eat a plate full of humble pie this week. How about the staff give him a break and not make him eat two more plates full before making a premature decision for his long term future?
Bingo! And even three games isn't enough. Why the chronic impatience in Browns Town? No team goes from mediocre to the top in a few weeks.
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It shows that either Pettine was told by Jimmy to put in JFF or that he is not an intelligent coach. I agree putting in JFF now was idiotic. Especially with playoffs still a possibility. I have a feeling there was a strong suggestion from Jimmy to put in JFF.
"You planning on having a long relationship with that glass or are you going to drink it? Drink up, man. Maybe we can get another.” - Janis Joplin, 1970. -
It shows that either Pettine was told by Jimmy to put in JFF or that he is not an intelligent coach. I agree putting in JFF now was idiotic. Especially with playoffs still a possibility. I have a feeling there was a strong suggestion from Jimmy to put in JFF.
It shows that either Pettine was told by Jimmy to put in JFF or that he is not an intelligent coach. I agree putting in JFF now was idiotic. Especially with playoffs still a possibility. I have a feeling there was a strong suggestion from Jimmy to put in JFF.
I'm sure you're right. It's like a firing squad - 5 guns, 3 blanks, no one's guilty.
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You had to post it again?
Bernie has no inside information on how the browns are run. He's bitter he isn't a part of the organization.
Love him or not, his take is based on bias and no real information or experience.
The man was an elite NFL quarterback for many years and played for two organizations that were successful, and we're to dismiss his observations? "No real information or experience?" OK, what "real information and experience" in the NFL do YOU have?
His observations are about just as informed as yours are...or mine.The man was an elite NFL quarterback for many years and played for two organizations that were successful, and we're to dismiss his observations? "No real information or experience?" OK, what "real information and experience" in the NFL do YOU have?
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His observations are about just as informed as yours are...or mine.The man was an elite NFL quarterback for many years and played for two organizations that were successful, and we're to dismiss his observations? "No real information or experience?" OK, what "real information and experience" in the NFL do YOU have?
His observations are about just as informed as yours are...or mine.
If you believe that then you need to primp in front of a mirror a little more. I for one think his observations deserve a lot more merit that any armchair quarterback, you and me included. At least he walked the walk and should be given due respect for that alone.
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It shows that either Pettine was told by Jimmy to put in JFF or that he is not an intelligent coach. I agree putting in JFF now was idiotic. Especially with playoffs still a possibility. I have a feeling there was a strong suggestion from Jimmy to put in JFF.
Well I think the Cincinnati Bengals were pissed off and playing over their heads even though they are a darn good team. They wanted to stick it to the Cleveland Browns for embarrassing them in their own house and would have done this to Brian Hoyer or Joe Montana.It shows that either Pettine was told by Jimmy to put in JFF or that he is not an intelligent coach. I agree putting in JFF now was idiotic. Especially with playoffs still a possibility. I have a feeling there was a strong suggestion from Jimmy to put in JFF.
And yes Bernie played in the NFL many years ago and no he has absolutely no clue what's going on in the front office or locker room today.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
how many people who are spouting nonsense now about it was too early to put in manziel said earlier in the year "wait til hoyer fucks up cuz johnny IS going to play this year!" even all the pundits said as we all knew that the FO wanted to see at some point what manziel had AND THAT AIN'T IN PRACTICE.
get over it, the kid blew chunks. maybe this sunday he won't. who knows. but if you don't think this is a 3 game audition for what happens next year, you're all kidding yourself.
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Well no matter who you hate or who you love its a bad time for an audition.
Without much hope of a playoff berth it always seems the players with cuts and bruises just take off the rest of the season. If coach has them fired up to try and salvage a little respect I will be very impressed with him.
As far as whether or not it was too early I can guarantee you had brian played and had a similar result coach would be getting shit for not pulling the trigger.
WSS
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If manziel didn't suck, there isn't even all of this.
Everybody that agreed with switching to manziel is now saying it was a mistake by a dysfunctional organization? Why didn't anybody say that before the switch was made.
If hoyer played and sucked Sunday it would have been the same thing.
Whatever, just get rid of the elf and end all of the nonsense he brought.
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If manziel didn't suck, there isn't even all of this.
Everybody that agreed with switching to manziel is now saying it was a mistake by a dysfunctional organization? Why didn't anybody say that before the switch was made.
If hoyer played and sucked Sunday it would have been the same thing.
Whatever, just get rid of the elf and end all of the nonsense he brought.
If manziel didn't suck, there isn't even all of this.
Everybody that agreed with switching to manziel is now saying it was a mistake by a dysfunctional organization? Why didn't anybody say that before the switch was made.
>>>because there are a lot of fans and media members that don't know shit from shinola. And that includes me. PS I don't think the switch had jack shit to do with it.<<<
If hoyer played and sucked Sunday it would have been the same thing.
Whatever, just get rid of the elf and end all of the nonsense he brought.
WSS
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