John Football Excuses Forum....
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Just from my own experience with the band. There's a particular song we do every year. It's complicated but... Anyway we gave it the usual amount of rehearsal 2 years ago. I've sung it plenty of times without a hitch. At the show I fucked up and went to the third verse after the first. It wasn't a train wreck but I was pissed off at myself. I guess in hindsight I should have gone over it a couple more times at rehearsal. It doesn't mean I didn't give a fuck it meant that looking back over something that didn't go as well as I'd hoped yes maybe I should have done something differently.Not too hard to comprehend. He stated he didn't prepare as well as he should have That to me shows a lack of motivation.
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WSS
Just from my own experience with the band. There's a particular song we do every year. It's complicated but... Anyway we gave it the usual amount of rehearsal 2 years ago. I've sung it plenty of times without a hitch. At the show I fucked up and went to the third verse after the first. It wasn't a train wreck but I was pissed off at myself. I guess in hindsight I should have gone over it a couple more times at rehearsal. It doesn't mean I didn't give a fuck it meant that looking back over something that didn't go as well as I'd hoped yes maybe I should have done something differently.
WSS
Sounds like you weren't entirely motivated. We can get into arguments about stupid shit. But ultimately if you had an opportunity to open for led zeppelin or the who, you think you'd be preparing for your gig a little more than normal? You'd be a little more motivated?
You have an opportunity to be 1 of 32 people in the world to start for an NFL team. You'd think the motivation would be higher.
But we can talk more on stealing Pokemon cards and messing up at gigs if you'd like.
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Just from my own experience with the band. There's a particular song we do every year. It's complicated but... Anyway we gave it the usual amount of rehearsal 2 years ago. I've sung it plenty of times without a hitch. At the show I fucked up and went to the third verse after the first. It wasn't a train wreck but I was pissed off at myself. I guess in hindsight I should have gone over it a couple more times at rehearsal. It doesn't mean I didn't give a fuck it meant that looking back over something that didn't go as well as I'd hoped yes maybe I should have done something differently.Not too hard to comprehend. He stated he didn't prepare as well as he should have That to me shows a lack of motivation.
[/font][/color]
WSS
Just from my own experience with the band. There's a particular song we do every year. It's complicated but... Anyway we gave it the usual amount of rehearsal 2 years ago. I've sung it plenty of times without a hitch. At the show I fucked up and went to the third verse after the first. It wasn't a train wreck but I was pissed off at myself. I guess in hindsight I should have gone over it a couple more times at rehearsal. It doesn't mean I didn't give a fuck it meant that looking back over something that didn't go as well as I'd hoped yes maybe I should have done something differently.
WSS
Its called old age WSS.
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Just from my own experience with the band. There's a particular song we do every year. It's complicated but... Anyway we gave it the usual amount of rehearsal 2 years ago. I've sung it plenty of times without a hitch. At the show I fucked up and went to the third verse after the first. It wasn't a train wreck but I was pissed off at myself. I guess in hindsight I should have gone over it a couple more times at rehearsal. It doesn't mean I didn't give a fuck it meant that looking back over something that didn't go as well as I'd hoped yes maybe I should have done something differently.
WSS
Sounds like you weren't entirely motivated. We can get into arguments about stupid shit. But ultimately if you had an opportunity to open for led zeppelin or the who, you think you'd be preparing for your gig a little more than normal? You'd be a little more motivated?
You have an opportunity to be 1 of 32 people in the world to start for an NFL team. You'd think the motivation would be higher.
But we can talk more on stealing Pokemon cards and messing up at gigs if you'd like.
I guess if you didn't like me or loved the guy I replaced you could call that mistake lack of motivation. Personally I was confident that I had it and tripped over it on stage. I don't think you can properly rehearse a song in a practice studio or a play at Berea.Sounds like you weren't entirely motivated. We can get into arguments about stupid shit. But ultimately if you had an opportunity to open for led zeppelin or the who, you think you'd be preparing for your gig a little more than normal? You'd be a little more motivated?
You have an opportunity to be 1 of 32 people in the world to start for an NFL team. You'd think the motivation would be higher.
But we can talk more on stealing Pokemon cards and messing up at gigs if you'd like.
And I would bet you would take issue with me if I said that it was Brian Hoyers lack of motivation that caused him to lose the Indianapolis game. Just a guess.
(BTW I nailed the next year)
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
Hoorta I can't disagree with too much with what you said. As far as the JF thing, it was his parents that pursued that trademark for him. During the middle of the Heisman season there was a clip on the A&M Jumbotrom asking players what nickname they had gotten. His answer was a very humble, "Some people call me Johnny Football, I guess" The name actually embarrassed him. Yeah later the whole Heisman thing overwhelmed him and he handled it terribly just as Winston has at FSU.
And the fact that Pettine has said all along that "Johnny has done everything we have asked him to do" does not show he was just goofing off. It's that he really didn't realize how much he had to do beyond just doing what was asked, something that, now that he has played, he fully understands. He's asking for a chance to go above and beyond "requirements". All I have ever said is that once he understands fully what he needs too do, his history shows he will run through walls to get it done.
Now if he screws up even once during the off season his ass should hit the road. And BTW he did not look all that bad on the second possession with JG dropping a ball hitting him right in the hands for what should have been a 3rd down completion in the red zone. The next ridiculous play on the subsequent possession was entirely on shanny's stupidity. I said before he would run through brick walls to win for the Browns. He did not slide because he was trying to stop the clock just before the 2 minute warning deep in Browns territory. I've seen many a competitive QB do exactly the same.
Let's just see in the off season what kind of reports start coming out of Berea about how he is spending his time leading into next season. And BTW what kinds of contact is he allowed before the start of OTA's? If it turns out he hangs out with Shaw and Hoyer studying playbooks and films, there is hope. And if he gets some of the WRs in with him to work on routes as he used to do with Evans and Swope, more power to him.
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I believe JM did not understand and/or was not willing the effort required to QB at the NFL level. If true, it naturally follows that he did not put forth the required discretionary effort. It matters not what he did with that time that effort would have required, if it did not go towards preparing him for the NFL.
Watching JM I get the feeling he truly believed he'd waltz in as is and "wreck this league".
The only questions left are:
- Does JM now truly understand what it takes?
- Is he willing to pay that price?
- Is it too late?
Won't know those answers for at least 8 months.
JM has admitted as of yesterday that he has learned more sitting on the bench than in his prior 22 years learning football. He specifically mentioned that he had not understood the kind and amount of work that it takes to become an NFL QB until watching BH and all that he does to prepare. The implication is that if the Browns give him a chance he will do all of those things to become that NFL QB the Browns want now that he really understands it. Pretty much validated what you said above, that he had no inkling of what it took and thought he could just come in and "wreck this league".
I realize that most here think that will not matter due to his limitations. So if the Browns are unwilling to go that extra mile then they need to find out his trade value immediately. Conner Shaw would be an adequate replacement, so why not just get it over and say he had his chance already. I really do think that at least 1 team would give up a 3rd rounder for him which would give the Browns another decent lineman draft which is more desperately needed.
JM has admitted as of yesterday that he has learned more sitting on the bench than in his prior 22 years learning football. He specifically mentioned that he had not understood the kind and amount of work that it takes to become an NFL QB until watching BH and all that he does to prepare. The implication is that if the Browns give him a chance he will do all of those things to become that NFL QB the Browns want now that he really understands it. Pretty much validated what you said above, that he had no inkling of what it took and thought he could just come in and "wreck this league".
"If the Browns give him a chance"? The Browns gave him the chance. They made him a number one. They let him compete. He knew he was behind in TC. They told him why. And suddenly because he got his ass handed to him in a start, he has an "epiphany"?
Talk is cheap. I'll believe it when I see it on the field, Ag.
I think he can take that next step now that he has had an epiphany. But I also think than shanny is going to get him hurt with these designed QB run plays. He would be better off doing this elsewhere with a new start and a clean slate on another team and less chance of an idiot purposefully running him into a career ending injury. That last play proved all I needed to know about shanny. That was just plain beyond belief.
I still watch the play and cannot believe it was executed as it was drawn up, but even if it was, there were better options than taking on two defenders in an attempt to get to the sidelines. That's poor judgment on the part of the QB.
So you start Hoyer all season... realize he's terrible 13 games in. Then you start me when the entire league is already in rhythm, putting me in an impossible situation to succeed with the leagues worst o-line...
How's it feel to be worse than our "terrible" QB? You know, the one who had success behind the leagues worst line?
Time for a new avatar. Try one with you holding a playbook.
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This thread has gotten huge, but its probably the best place to put this.
I was finally able to watch the game on NFL rewind, and Johnny, to my surprise, didn't look terrible. Hell, in relation to the Cincy game, he looked much better. I agree, it's still not good enough, but there were signs of improvement.
I really don't understand the play call that lead to the injury, just dumb, but Johnny should have slid when he realized the play was beaten. He won't last if he doesn't learn from that. Likewise, he won't last running naked bootleg sweeps.
This year can be viewed certain ways. Many will view it as proof that Johnny sucks and that he is a wasted pick. Though I think that is a valid view, I think it is too easy, and might be based too much on emotion. And yes, I'll admit that as a Manzealot, emotion has played a large role in my belief that Johnny will be great.
In trying to strip away the emotion, though, I think the way to view this season is that it was always going to be a building season. This team wasn't going to win a Super Bowl, and that is the ultimate goal. The Browns exceeded expectations despite lackluster qb play. They were able to see that Hoyer can win games despite his limitations. They also see that Johnny has a long way to go.
I think both those guys will be Browns again next season, and will both be better players because of this season. I'm not sure of all the needs the draft can meet, but I don't think the Browns should make any drastic moves to get another qb unless Winston, Mariota or Hundley fell into their laps.
Johnny should be full of motivation to prove his detractors wrong, and if he looks bad again next season, after a whole off-season to learn the offense and get better, there's no good excuse. The Johnny Football experiment can be deemed a failure and he can be kicked to the curb.
This thread has gotten huge, but its probably the best place to put this.
Great post... you have become the most objective Johnny fan on the forum.
LeBron was even higher profile than JF- at an even younger age. Shit- he was working out with the Cavs when he was in grade school.
Great contrast with LBJ... I wonder if he can help JM salvage his opportunity with the Browns? So far it seems that he has only fed the "JFF" persona... perhaps for fun and profit?
... the JF thing, it was his parents that pursued that trademark for him.
Ag, you certainly exceed the requirements for this thread...
Wish JM would do the same when it comes to his profession.
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Pluto's article from the 22nd reflects this thread...
I was wrong about Johnny Manziel, and that also may be true for Cleveland Browns -- Terry Pluto (video, slideshow)
Concluding thought was:
"When it comes to considering the quarterback situation for 2015, the Browns can't possibly think that Manziel is ready to open the season as a starter."
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As disastrous as Johnny's 6 quarters have been, the Browns need to hope that allowing him to play and consequently fail has at least the silver lining benefit of him being humbled and more expantant with regards to the speed of the NFL going into next season. Sure, to us it seems obvious that the NFL is an incredibly unforgiving league that demands complete dedication thus Manziel should have done all he could have to prepare himself for this season. The reality of the matter is that there really is no way to realistically prepare for the NFL without having experienced it. We've gone through examples ad nauseam of smart and succesfull quarterbacks that still were humbled through their first string of NFL starts. That being said, even considering the low liklihood that enhanced concentration would've benefited Johnny to a large extent this season I think most would agree that developing those strong work habits would have at the very least endeared him more to the fans, his teammates, and his coaches. He isn't the first QB to act like an idiot as a young professional (Favre run out of Atlanta, Roethlisberger, Sanchez, etc) but clearly it is not a positive indicator for the player that your franchise is looking towards for leadership.
In 2015, Johnny will no longer be entering the season unaware and ignorant to the talent level and sheer speed that he must account for in the NFL. Hopefully Manziel has also been humbled as a result of his poor play that enhance the scrutiny of his poor professional work habits and exacerbated his situation within the Browns organization. Perhaps it is the optomist in me but it has been indicated that Manziel is intelligent; I hope that this intelligence allows him to recognize the considerable improvements that he neeeds to make and how he must go about his training regimin to make these improvements. It's going to be a long offseason for Manziel and I sincerely hopes that he leverages this time as an opportunity to improve rather than a period of rest.
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JFF finishes the year on IR who would've thought?
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Aside from actually forcing himself to stand in the pocket, what signs did you see? I'm curious because the only quality throw I witnessed was made possible by a DB tripping over his own two feet.
Admittedly, it would be hard not to be better than the Cincy game, but if you couldn't see improvement, you're just blind.
Admittedly, it would be hard not to be better than the Cincy game, but if you couldn't see improvement, you're just blind.
I asked for a specific example. Just one, and all you could do was deflect back to me while being incredibly vague.
Nice.
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I guess if you didn't like me or loved the guy I replaced you could call that mistake lack of motivation. Personally I was confident that I had it and tripped over it on stage. I don't think you can properly rehearse a song in a practice studio or a play at Berea.Sounds like you weren't entirely motivated. We can get into arguments about stupid shit. But ultimately if you had an opportunity to open for led zeppelin or the who, you think you'd be preparing for your gig a little more than normal? You'd be a little more motivated?
You have an opportunity to be 1 of 32 people in the world to start for an NFL team. You'd think the motivation would be higher.
But we can talk more on stealing Pokemon cards and messing up at gigs if you'd like.
And I would bet you would take issue with me if I said that it was Brian Hoyers lack of motivation that caused him to lose the Indianapolis game. Just a guess.
(BTW I nailed the next year)
WSS
If hoyer admitted he didn't prepare well, I wpuldnt be happy either. Not sure what there isn't to understand when the guys admits it. Whether I like him or not he said he didn't prepare well. To me thats a lack of motivation. But I agree things can always go wrong no matter how much you prepare.I guess if you didn't like me or loved the guy I replaced you could call that mistake lack of motivation. Personally I was confident that I had it and tripped over it on stage. I don't think you can properly rehearse a song in a practice studio or a play at Berea.
And I would bet you would take issue with me if I said that it was Brian Hoyers lack of motivation that caused him to lose the Indianapolis game. Just a guess.
(BTW I nailed the next year)
WSS
I like you. Glad you nail it!
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I didn't realize you can infer someone's motivations based off of an admission. When I was 8, I admitted to stealing a Pokemon card from my friend. Should have locked my up then, I didn't want to be a non-stealer.
Not too hard to comprehend. He stated he didn't prepare as well as he should have That to me shows a lack of motivation.
Judging by your analogy, which compares a child's actions to an adults, you don't understand what motivation means.
Motivation is a theoretical construct used to explain behavior. It is the scientific word used to represent the reasons for our actions, our desires, and our needs. Motivation can also be defined as our direction to our behavior or what causes us to want to repeat a behavior and vice versa.[1] A motive is what prompts a person to act in a certain way or at least develop an inclination for specific behavior.
Not too hard to comprehend. He stated he didn't prepare as well as he should have That to me shows a lack of motivation.
Judging by your analogy, which compares a child's actions to an adults, you don't understand what motivation means.
Motivation is a theoretical construct used to explain behavior. It is the scientific word used to represent the reasons for our actions, our desires, and our needs. Motivation can also be defined as our direction to our behavior or what causes us to want to repeat a behavior and vice versa.[1] A motive is what prompts a person to act in a certain way or at least develop an inclination for specific behavior.
My comparison was the same as yours, trying to predict future behaviors from past events.
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If hoyer admitted he didn't prepare well, I wpuldnt be happy either. Not sure what there isn't to understand when the guys admits it. Whether I like him or not he said he didn't prepare well. To me thats a lack of motivation. But I agree things can always go wrong no matter how much you prepare.I guess if you didn't like me or loved the guy I replaced you could call that mistake lack of motivation. Personally I was confident that I had it and tripped over it on stage. I don't think you can properly rehearse a song in a practice studio or a play at Berea.
And I would bet you would take issue with me if I said that it was Brian Hoyers lack of motivation that caused him to lose the Indianapolis game. Just a guess.
(BTW I nailed the next year)
WSS
I like you. Glad you nail it!
Bud I like all of you guys even if we don't agree on everything. I'm just talking personality here. Did you read the offensive line grade tour put up after the debacle in Cincinnati? What did yo Thomas get?If hoyer admitted he didn't prepare well, I wpuldnt be happy either. Not sure what there isn't to understand when the guys admits it. Whether I like him or not he said he didn't prepare well. To me thats a lack of motivation. But I agree things can always go wrong no matter how much you prepare.
I like you. Glad you nail it!
If you asked him do you suppose he'd say he could have worked a little bit harder?
If you asked brian hoyer after the Indianapolis game if there was anything he might have done differently during practice what do you think you would say?
After any failure you can look back and second guess your preparation no matter who you are or what you are doing. I just think, like so many other things, this is a non issue only matters if you don't like the kid.
I'm worried about him too but not for any of the stupid shit people like to read in the paper or hear on the radio. I worry that he might be too short to see over the line of scrimmage. I worry that the transition to the program has been a culture shock. That's what I'd worry about it for almost anyone though.
WSS
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Admittedly, it would be hard not to be better than the Cincy game, but if you couldn't see improvement, you're just blind.
I asked for a specific example. Just one, and all you could do was deflect back to me while being incredibly vague.
Nice.
I asked for a specific example. Just one, and all you could do was deflect back to me while being incredibly vague.
Nice.
I did this because it's incredibly obvious, but here's some examples.
1. No terrible int's.
2. 3 pts in 1 quarter vs. 0 in 4 quarters.
3. Good pass on a good drive, also some catchable passes that were dropped, 1 that could have lead to a td.
Again, it wasn't amazing, but it wasn't even close to the debacle of the cincy game.
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I asked for a specific example. Just one, and all you could do was deflect back to me while being incredibly vague.
Nice.
I did this because it's incredibly obvious, but here's some examples.
1. No terrible int's.
2. 3 pts in 1 quarter vs. 0 in 4 quarters.
3. Good pass on a good drive, also some catchable passes that were dropped, 1 that could have lead to a td.
Again, it wasn't amazing, but it wasn't even close to the debacle of the cincy game.
I did this because it's incredibly obvious, but here's some examples.
1. No terrible int's.
2. 3 pts in 1 quarter vs. 0 in 4 quarters.
3. Good pass on a good drive, also some catchable passes that were dropped, 1 that could have lead to a td.
Again, it wasn't amazing, but it wasn't even close to the debacle of the cincy game.
Ya, I'm surprised he didnt get more Pro Bowl support.
Zombo
-3 points! Gone are the days of 0 points!
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Just listened to his mid-week... In a nutshell it's "I need to work harder, but would not change a thing about my rookie season."
Wow... Talk about squarin' a fuckin' circle. For some reason reminded me of:
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I find all this from him to be offensive and arrogant. He wasted a season. He can waste his time any way he wants, but I'm offended that he wasted mine. I've been watching losing football for 15 years and still show up every season and give it my all to support this team. Nice to know the "QB of the future" couldn't give a damn. He couldn't come up with ONE thing he could say he would do different? I'm in my forties and I would like to see just one before I fucking die you little shit. He's a waste of time just like I knew he was.
What's worse about all this is that I'm sure we will lose Hoyer behind all of it. I really hope that's not the case. Hoyer proved that with all the pieces in place he can run this offense very efficiently and effectively. I hate the idea of bringing in another vet when we have one on the roster who would be going into year two in the system that has shown he can win games. The biggest thing this team has lacked all these years is any continuity. This is why people see this franchise as a joke.
Depending on Shaw looking at least competent (which would be an upgrade over money fingers), if I were running the show, I'd try to find a way to keep Hoyer to start grooming Shaw until the RIGHT franchise QB comes along. At least I trust Shaw will do his work and give the team his very best. I'd also draft a mid rounder to bring in that runs a pro style offense. I'm not sold on Mariota and Winston seems to have a shit ton of character issues on top of the fact that they are out of reach without mortgaging a ton in draft picks.
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