Haslam/Farmer Post Season Presser
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I, for one, am not expecting "spin".
Certainly not from Pettine.
Not really from Farmer.
Unlikely from Haslam, if he even speaks.
Not to say that I expect the complete, unvarnished truth on every topic. There's simply a great deal of room between those two extremes.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I, for one, am not expecting "spin".
Certainly not from Pettine.
Not really from Farmer.
Unlikely from Haslam, if he even speaks.
Not to say that I expect the complete, unvarnished truth on every topic. There's simply a great deal of room between those two extremes.
I, for one, am not expecting "spin".
Certainly not from Pettine.
Not really from Farmer.
Unlikely from Haslam, if he even speaks.
Not to say that I expect the complete, unvarnished truth on every topic. There's simply a great deal of room between those two extremes.
I expect that we'll hear all positive things all the way to OTAs, giving the illusion that things have somehow changed, and we'll be walking endlessly towards that mirage and before we know it, it'll be the 2016 draft and that mirage will be "within our grasp".
Funny thing about mirages though........
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@everlastingxxx said:
You can't dump first round picks after one season unless you want to tank your franchise for the next 10 years. You have to hit on them. They have to be given every chance to be successful.
The owner can make all the threats he wants but these young players would be snatched up quickly if they were let go. They are still young and you have to be patient with them and hope the light turns on.
Gordon is a different animal. I would have released him after his drug suspension. You can't trust him any longer.
Be clear, it's not they, it's he - as in Ryan Leaf v2.0
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@everlastingxxx said:
You can't dump first round picks after one season unless you want to tank your franchise for the next 10 years. You have to hit on them. They have to be given every chance to be successful.
The owner can make all the threats he wants but these young players would be snatched up quickly if they were let go. They are still young and you have to be patient with them and hope the light turns on.
Gordon is a different animal. I would have released him after his drug suspension. You can't trust him any longer.
I'm for trading Gordon for whatever can be gotten for him, but with that said, Gordon's 23 and has proven to be an elite, game-changing player. Manziel is 22 and hasn't proven shit.
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@everlastingxxx said:
You can't dump first round picks after one season unless you want to tank your franchise for the next 10 years. You have to hit on them. They have to be given every chance to be successful.
The owner can make all the threats he wants but these young players would be snatched up quickly if they were let go. They are still young and you have to be patient with them and hope the light turns on.
Gordon is a different animal. I would have released him after his drug suspension. You can't trust him any longer.
The team/organization has already proven that they're willing to get rid of a first round pick, no matter how unpopular at the time the decision was (see Richardson, Trent). Now that turned out to be a great move because we stole a first round pick for a guy who truly does suck. In my view, I've seen enough of Manziel to put him out there on the trade block and see what he brings. Same with Gordon. Gilbert, I'm willing to give a 2nd chance to because I think he has less strikes (as someone else has said) and he is a first round pick with loads of talent. I'm not sure Manziel has the talent to play at this level. It's clear at this point that he is nowhere near mature enough and doesn't seem to give a shit.
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@everlastingxxx said:
You can't dump first round picks after one season unless you want to tank your franchise for the next 10 years. You have to hit on them. They have to be given every chance to be successful.
No. Dumping a shitty first round pick after one year sets you back a year. Forcing them into the lineup because you want to pretend the pick wasn't horrible can cost several more years. You can polish a turd - but it is still a turd. And Manziel stinks..
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@everlastingxxx said:
You can't dump first round picks after one season unless you want to tank your franchise for the next 10 years. You have to hit on them. They have to be given every chance to be successful.
No. Dumping a shitty first round pick after one year sets you back a year. Forcing them into the lineup because you want to pretend the pick wasn't horrible can cost several more years. You can polish a turd - but it is still a turd. And Manziel stinks..
@everlastingxxx said:
You are like a broken record. I don't agree with your comparisons. Not sure what else you want me to say?
Broken record maybe, but I'm right on v2.0
No. Dumping a shitty first round pick after one year sets you back a year. Forcing them into the lineup because you don't want to pretend the pick wasn't horrible can cost several more years. You can polish a turd - but it is still a turd. And Manziel stinks..
^^^ This
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@everlastingxxx said:
You can't dump first round picks after one season unless you want to tank your franchise for the next 10 years. You have to hit on them. They have to be given every chance to be successful.
The owner can make all the threats he wants but these young players would be snatched up quickly if they were let go. They are still young and you have to be patient with them and hope the light turns on.
Gordon is a different animal. I would have released him after his drug suspension. You can't trust him any longer.
The team/organization has already proven that they're willing to get rid of a first round pick, no matter how unpopular at the time the decision was (see Richardson, Trent). Now that turned out to be a great move because we stole a first round pick for a guy who truly does suck. In my view, I've seen enough of Manziel to put him out there on the trade block and see what he brings. Same with Gordon. Gilbert, I'm willing to give a 2nd chance to because I think he has less strikes (as someone else has said) and he is a first round pick with loads of talent. I'm not sure Manziel has the talent to play at this level. It's clear at this point that he is nowhere near mature enough and doesn't seem to give a shit.
The team/organization has already proven that they're willing to get rid of a first round pick, no matter how unpopular at the time the decision was (see Richardson, Trent). Now that turned out to be a great move because we stole a first round pick for a guy who truly does suck. In my view, I've seen enough of Manziel to put him out there on the trade block and see what he brings. Same with Gordon. Gilbert, I'm willing to give a 2nd chance to because I think he has less strikes (as someone else has said) and he is a first round pick with loads of talent. I'm not sure Manziel has the talent to play at this level. It's clear at this point that he is nowhere near mature enough and doesn't seem to give a shit.
As usual Mark speaks for me. I am as pissed tonight as I have ever been regarding the Browns, and especially towards v2.0 so my posts probably reflect that.
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The team/organization has already proven that they're willing to get rid of a first round pick, no matter how unpopular at the time the decision was (see Richardson, Trent). Now that turned out to be a great move because we stole a first round pick for a guy who truly does suck. In my view, I've seen enough of Manziel to put him out there on the trade block and see what he brings. Same with Gordon. Gilbert, I'm willing to give a 2nd chance to because I think he has less strikes (as someone else has said) and he is a first round pick with loads of talent. I'm not sure Manziel has the talent to play at this level. It's clear at this point that he is nowhere near mature enough and doesn't seem to give a shit.
As usual Mark speaks for me. I am as pissed tonight as I have ever been regarding the Browns, and especially towards v2.0 so my posts probably reflect that.
As usual Mark speaks for me. I am as pissed tonight as I have ever been regarding the Browns, and especially towards v2.0 so my posts probably reflect that.
Not sure I'm comfortable with the responsibility of speaking for any of you. The difference between myself and a lot of you is that although I love the Browns and want them to win each and every week, its not something that pisses me off. The season was a fun one since we were actually relevant into December, only really played 1 truly stinker game and I think heading in the right direction. Whether we truly are heading in the right direction or not remains to be seen but I feel pretty good about the front office for the first time in a few years. Probably since Mangini...I thought he had us heading in the right direction as well.
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@everlastingxxx said:
You can't dump first round picks after one season unless you want to tank your franchise for the next 10 years. You have to hit on them. They have to be given every chance to be successful.
The owner can make all the threats he wants but these young players would be snatched up quickly if they were let go. They are still young and you have to be patient with them and hope the light turns on.
Gordon is a different animal. I would have released him after his drug suspension. You can't trust him any longer.
Mark said it all. We cut bait with Richardson- if the staff has had enough of JF BS- they will hve no compunction sending him packing either.
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@everlastingxxx said:
Getting draft picks in return is always a good thing. Browns hosed the Colts on the Richardson trade.
I don't think you would get much for Manziel. His off the field stuff is too much.
I agree...but if that's the case then the best thing would be to cut bait with him if the team/FO feels that he's not worth the distraction.
Given how young he is, I'd be shocked if we couldn't get even a 5th or 6th round pick for him. Maybe we could just trade him to the Rams for Bradford.
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@everlastingxxx said:
You can't dump first round picks after one season unless you want to tank your franchise for the next 10 years. You have to hit on them. They have to be given every chance to be successful.
The owner can make all the threats he wants but these young players would be snatched up quickly if they were let go. They are still young and you have to be patient with them and hope the light turns on.
Gordon is a different animal. I would have released him after his drug suspension. You can't trust him any longer.
I'm for trading Gordon for whatever can be gotten for him, but with that said, Gordon's 23 and has proven to be an elite, game-changing player. Manziel is 22 and hasn't proven shit.
I'm for trading Gordon for whatever can be gotten for him, but with that said, Gordon's 23 and has proven to be an elite, game-changing player. Manziel is 22 and hasn't proven shit.
Gilbert is also young.
Look, we've got these three essentially on the cheap for the duration of their current contract.
I see us keeping them probably most if not all of this upcoming Season - with the possibility of a trade by next Season's deadline.
I expect we'll keep working them, and hopefully they'll turn it around (lot of potential talent), but at least I see us trying to maximize our gains from these Players and minimize our losses.
I've seen a few minor flashes from Gilbert, Gordon we all know has massive potential, and for me at least the jury's still out on Manziel.
Should be another interesting Off Season, and with a little continuity possibly some progress.
Post Game Interview I saw with Thomas was that he was looking forward to next Season and being in the Playoffs - that's a real possibility if things work out right.
I think we're on the right course, and hopefully we'll continue to make progress.
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That Manziel pick created a cascade of issues.
This might be the greatest WR class ever and we missed it. Just look at the production of these guys.
Evans
Watkins
Odell Beckham
Kelvin Benjamin
Brandon Cooks
Jordan Mathews
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If I'm Farmer I'm telling the owner to give me the leeway to trade them all off. Gilbert should get the greater benefit of the doubt, but JF has just betrayed a trust the parameters of which he set himself earlier in the week. He broke his own parameters and Farmer/Pettine need to be able to deal for the very best trade they can make. Sure smooth it over in public if you wish, but make the trade down the road. It would actually be JF's best chance to get that kind of wakeup call that someone dislikes what he is doing so much that they are willing to let him go elsewhere. Gordon has had even more chances and is proving that he is just not a fit with this offense which is clearly not centered around him.
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@everlastingxxx said:
You can't dump first round picks after one season unless you want to tank your franchise for the next 10 years. You have to hit on them. They have to be given every chance to be successful.
The owner can make all the threats he wants but these young players would be snatched up quickly if they were let go. They are still young and you have to be patient with them and hope the light turns on.
Gordon is a different animal. I would have released him after his drug suspension. You can't trust him any longer.
I'm for trading Gordon for whatever can be gotten for him, but with that said, Gordon's 23 and has proven to be an elite, game-changing player. Manziel is 22 and hasn't proven shit.
I'm for trading Gordon for whatever can be gotten for him, but with that said, Gordon's 23 and has proven to be an elite, game-changing player. Manziel is 22 and hasn't proven shit.
Agreed. Part of me is still willing to hang on to Gordon because of that elite level talent. Manziel on the other hand seems to just enable guys like Josh. My biggest fear in releasing/trading Gordon is that he goes somewhere like Baltimore where thugs flourish, gets his act together, and then begins destroying the Browns. Granted in the last two years he has really lost all my respect.
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@everlastingxxx said:
You can't dump first round picks after one season unless you want to tank your franchise for the next 10 years. You have to hit on them. They have to be given every chance to be successful.
The owner can make all the threats he wants but these young players would be snatched up quickly if they were let go. They are still young and you have to be patient with them and hope the light turns on.
Gordon is a different animal. I would have released him after his drug suspension. You can't trust him any longer.
Of course you can. The worst thing you can ever do is wait for the first round pick to come around. I can understand the need to wait for a prototypical QB that works hard with great physical attributes but this joker (Manziel) is anything but that. Why blow 2-3 years to acknowledge a mistake?
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@everlastingxxx said:
You can't dump first round picks after one season unless you want to tank your franchise for the next 10 years. You have to hit on them. They have to be given every chance to be successful.
No. Dumping a shitty first round pick after one year sets you back a year. Forcing them into the lineup because you want to pretend the pick wasn't horrible can cost several more years. You can polish a turd - but it is still a turd. And Manziel stinks..
No. Dumping a shitty first round pick after one year sets you back a year. Forcing them into the lineup because you want to pretend the pick wasn't horrible can cost several more years.
Yup... kinda like Andy Dalton?
Not sure I'm comfortable with the responsibility of speaking for any of you. The difference between myself and a lot of you is that although I love the Browns and want them to win each and every week, its not something that pisses me off. The season was a fun one since we were actually relevant into December, only really played 1 truly stinker game and I think heading in the right direction. Whether we truly are heading in the right direction or not remains to be seen but I feel pretty good about the front office for the first time in a few years. Probably since Mangini...I thought he had us heading in the right direction as well.
LOL... be afraid, be very afraid...
We're pretty much in lockstep there, Mark. There is something to be said for impassionate analysis.
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@everlastingxxx said:
Getting draft picks in return is always a good thing. Browns hosed the Colts on the Richardson trade.
I don't think you would get much for Manziel. His off the field stuff is too much.
Not to mention his on the field stuff.
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@everlastingxxx said:
Getting draft picks in return is always a good thing. Browns hosed the Colts on the Richardson trade.
I don't think you would get much for Manziel. His off the field stuff is too much.
Not to mention his on the field stuff.
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@everlastingxxx said:
Getting draft picks in return is always a good thing. Browns hosed the Colts on the Richardson trade.
I don't think you would get much for Manziel. His off the field stuff is too much.
I agree...but if that's the case then the best thing would be to cut bait with him if the team/FO feels that he's not worth the distraction.
Given how young he is, I'd be shocked if we couldn't get even a 5th or 6th round pick for him. Maybe we could just trade him to the Rams for Bradford.
I agree...but if that's the case then the best thing would be to cut bait with him if the team/FO feels that he's not worth the distraction.
Given how young he is, I'd be shocked if we couldn't get even a 5th or 6th round pick for him. Maybe we could just trade him to the Rams for Bradford.
Sam's a pariah due to his contract, but I think Chip Kelly might be interested in a QB raised in an up tempo system.
In any case, if decisions been made to move on, delay if need be, but get what you can when you can and move on.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
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