Going to be a lot if disappointed guys in here come start of next season..
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Yes Hoyer probably proved he's a mid range starter at best and a pretty good backup. He'd play great coming in for the starter for a couple games when teams had prepared for someone else. I don't think Hoyer is the long term answer but now I'm not sure JM is either. JM proved he's a project. One that may or may not pan out. Even if we retain Hoyer we absolutely have to go out and get someone else cause if Hoyer shits the bed again Johnny cannot be the next guy up.
But if the coaching staff looks at both Shaw and Jm and think Shaw may in the end be more teachable, than JM has to go. Sucks cause I still like that kid. And yes a lot can be derived from the time JM has spent on the field this year. "A lot". He ain't ready. And my concern he's not going to touch a football much till next TC. That's a major flag. I wish it wouldn't be true but it likely is. I don't see him spending a minute in Berea this offseason studying film and learning basically how to play defense...cause a good qb is in essence a student of defense.
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Mid range starters are guys like joe flacco, Matt stafford, etc....
Hoyer has proven he is not a starter, but if he is he is the worst in the league.
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Hoyer should not be offered a contract because he will be a 30 something backup journeyman with no upside who was the worst starting qb in the league this year. He isn't going to get better, and what he is right now isn't good enough. Hoyer is not a factor in anything at this point.
Hoyer should not be offered a contract because he will be a 30 something backup journeyman with no upside who was the worst starting qb in the league this year. He isn't going to get better, and what he is right now isn't good enough. Hoyer is not a factor in anything at this point.
Ur right that what we see from Hoyer now is what it is...but it's still better than fuck anything else we got. Even you have to admit that.
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Mid range starters are guys like joe flacco, Matt stafford, etc....
Hoyer has proven he is not a starter, but if he is he is the worst in the league.
Mid range starters are guys like joe flacco, Matt stafford, etc....
Hoyer has proven he is not a starter, but if he is he is the worst in the league.
Flacco and Stafford are more than mid range. At the least they are upper mid range. Both of those guys would be close to the best qb's Cleveland has ever had...especially Flacco.
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And if JM is the starter on this team opening day next year we're in a lot of trouble. He is def more than one offseason and one TC away from taking over an offense. Holy fuck please tell me you at least see that?
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Hoyer should not be offered a contract because he will be a 30 something backup journeyman with no upside who was the worst starting qb in the league this year. He isn't going to get better, and what he is right now isn't good enough. Hoyer is not a factor in anything at this point.
Ur right that what we see from Hoyer now is what it is...but it's still better than fuck anything else we got. Even you have to admit that.
Ur right that what we see from Hoyer now is what it is...but it's still better than fuck anything else we got. Even you have to admit that.
JF has potential upside that hoyer doesn't......what we do know is that hoyers best isn't nearly good enough. We don't know that about JF yet
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And if JM is the starter on this team opening day next year we're in a lot of trouble. He is def more than one offseason and one TC away from taking over an offense. Holy fuck please tell me you at least see that?
And if JM is the starter on this team opening day next year we're in a lot of trouble. He is def more than one offseason and one TC away from taking over an offense. Holy fuck please tell me you at least see that?
I will agree that next year isn't looking good....mostly because we don't get to play half our schedule against the dreadful afc west and NFC south.
JF may lead us to 5-11 or so next year, but that might be more impressive than the 7-9 we were this year.
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5-11 is always more impressive then 7-9. Especially if JFF is the one losing the games........
"You planning on having a long relationship with that glass or are you going to drink it? Drink up, man. Maybe we can get another.” - Janis Joplin, 1970. -
Ur right that what we see from Hoyer now is what it is...but it's still better than fuck anything else we got. Even you have to admit that.
JF has potential upside that hoyer doesn't......what we do know is that hoyers best isn't nearly good enough. We don't know that about JF yet
JF has potential upside that hoyer doesn't......what we do know is that hoyers best isn't nearly good enough. We don't know that about JF yet
yeah I agree but you can obviously see that JF is more than an offseason away from figuring out the NFL game, right? Just tell me you see that? Because anyone that's watched football for more than a season or two can see that the kid is not ready. And when under pressure he reverts to his old college station throws that Evans always bailed him out on, can't do that in the NFL. Even Stafford sometimes gets nicked cause he thinks Megatron will bail him out of a bad throw, and that's megatron one of the purest freeks the NFL has ever seen at that position. JF ain't ready.
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I don't think having Hoyer and Manziel on the same team is feasible at this point. At this point I'd take Hoyer next season if nothing else Hoyer at least gives two shits.
I don't see why people think it's out of the question to move on. If the guy was really giving it his all and looked like he had some semblance of a clue what was going on I would definitely give him another shot, but dude hasn't even fucking tried and has said as much himself. Then to come out and vow to do what it takes to be the guy and blah blah blah and three days later fucking blow all that off and party right in the face of his teammates, coaches, organization and fans . . . It's a fucking disgrace. I'd be tempted to cut his ass first thing if I was Haslam, but I would at least see what I could get for him. Why people are so quick to give these guys a pass for not giving a damn is beyond me. They make a shit ton of money off you and you just let them piss on your face . . . and you're totally cool with it . . . WTF? The most pissed out of all of us should be the guys who showed up here singing his praises . . . How has this little shit repayed your loyalty? . . . By not giving a flying fuck that's how. There's no defense.
All that said, I hope the kid turns it around regardless what happens. Although, I never see him being a viable starter in the NFL.
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JF has potential upside that hoyer doesn't......what we do know is that hoyers best isn't nearly good enough. We don't know that about JF yet
yeah I agree but you can obviously see that JF is more than an offseason away from figuring out the NFL game, right? Just tell me you see that? Because anyone that's watched football for more than a season or two can see that the kid is not ready. And when under pressure he reverts to his old college station throws that Evans always bailed him out on, can't do that in the NFL. Even Stafford sometimes gets nicked cause he thinks Megatron will bail him out of a bad throw, and that's megatron one of the purest freeks the NFL has ever seen at that position. JF ain't ready.
yeah I agree but you can obviously see that JF is more than an offseason away from figuring out the NFL game, right? Just tell me you see that? Because anyone that's watched football for more than a season or two can see that the kid is not ready. And when under pressure he reverts to his old college station throws that Evans always bailed him out on, can't do that in the NFL. Even Stafford sometimes gets nicked cause he thinks Megatron will bail him out of a bad throw, and that's megatron one of the purest freeks the NFL has ever seen at that position. JF ain't ready.
Sure JF is not ready to step on th field after one offseason and be excellent. It takes time, and there are so,e growing pains when breaking in a new qb. But it is done with live action- unfortunately JF hasn't gotten much yet and it will start next year.
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While 5-11 is absolutely a stretch with JF under center next year....I still love the comment 5-11 is more impressive than 7-9. If we go 5-11 next year and Pettine says hey wait a second guys, the schedule was a lot harder this year so 5-11 is def more impressive than 7-9. I'm loathe to fire another coach after just 2 seasons but if I hear that out of him, which I won't....I will be the first to say get rid of him. If any coach at his year end presser ever said something to that effect he'd be ridiculed in the league for years to come. It would become an overnight meme.
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has anybody here actually taken into consideration our record pre and post Alex Mack??? at all?? we have had, I believe 4 starting Centers this year. anybody wondering why our season took a shit at that peticular moment? i think as a QB and you're running for your life every play than yea bad things happen...everytime. Hoyer is really good when our run game was in the top 5 and play action was lights out even without Gordon...Alex Mack stays healthy...who knows
thoughts from the Dawgpound
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5-11 is always more impressive then 7-9. Especially if JFF is the one losing the games........
5-11 is always more impressive then 7-9. Especially if JFF is the one losing the games........
???
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has anybody here actually taken into consideration our record pre and post Alex Mack??? at all?? we have had, I believe 4 starting Centers this year. anybody wondering why our season took a shit at that peticular moment? i think as a QB and you're running for your life every play than yea bad things happen...everytime. Hoyer is really good when our run game was in the top 5 and play action was lights out even without Gordon...Alex Mack stays healthy...who knows
thoughts from the Dawgpound
has anybody here actually taken into consideration our record pre and post Alex Mack??? at all?? we have had, I believe 4 starting Centers this year. anybody wondering why our season took a shit at that peticular moment? i think as a QB and you're running for your life every play than yea bad things happen...everytime. Hoyer is really good when our run game was in the top 5 and play action was lights out even without Gordon...Alex Mack stays healthy...who knows
thoughts from the Dawgpound
well the thing is Hoyer started making some throws that you simply cannot excuse on bad protection. And it wasn't just one or two, he really started missing badly. On throws that would have won us another game or two at least. He just shit the bed, for whatever reason. He's like Dalton, Dalton looks like such a stud and then if you watched the game tonight you see that he misses very badly on key throws. Watching Dalton tonight reminded me a lot on some of our past qb's including Hoyer.....at times they make clutch throws and then inconceivably miss easy gimme's that no NFL qb should miss more than once or twice a season. Hoyer just started to miss on too many easy throws and naturally it shitcanned his confidence on the big throws. Pettine had to see what he had in JF. It didn't work out but it is what it is...we now know JF is more of a project than we thought.
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has anybody here actually taken into consideration our record pre and post Alex Mack??? at all?? we have had, I believe 4 starting Centers this year. anybody wondering why our season took a shit at that peticular moment? i think as a QB and you're running for your life every play than yea bad things happen...everytime. Hoyer is really good when our run game was in the top 5 and play action was lights out even without Gordon...Alex Mack stays healthy...who knows
thoughts from the Dawgpound
well the thing is Hoyer started making some throws that you simply cannot excuse on bad protection. And it wasn't just one or two, he really started missing badly. On throws that would have won us another game or two at least. He just shit the bed, for whatever reason. He's like Dalton, Dalton looks like such a stud and then if you watched the game tonight you see that he misses very badly on key throws. Watching Dalton tonight reminded me a lot on some of our past qb's including Hoyer.....at times they make clutch throws and then inconceivably miss easy gimme's that no NFL qb should miss more than once or twice a season. Hoyer just started to miss on too many easy throws and naturally it shitcanned his confidence on the big throws. Pettine had to see what he had in JF. It didn't work out but it is what it is...we now know JF is more of a project than we thought.
well the thing is Hoyer started making some throws that you simply cannot excuse on bad protection. And it wasn't just one or two, he really started missing badly. On throws that would have won us another game or two at least. He just shit the bed, for whatever reason. He's like Dalton, Dalton looks like such a stud and then if you watched the game tonight you see that he misses very badly on key throws. Watching Dalton tonight reminded me a lot on some of our past qb's including Hoyer.....at times they make clutch throws and then inconceivably miss easy gimme's that no NFL qb should miss more than once or twice a season. Hoyer just started to miss on too many easy throws and naturally it shitcanned his confidence on the big throws. Pettine had to see what he had in JF. It didn't work out but it is what it is...we now know JF is more of a project than we thought.
haha. yea I agree I really love some stuff hoyer does when our offense is balanced. and then sometimes I'm saying WTF? did you through that ball for? and some are just straight up bad throws...under thrown, overthrown. yea pisses me off got me cussin' at home
Don't you wish you had taken the "Blue Pill"? https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10202829424159899&l=93ed4a6e53 -
well the thing is Hoyer started making some throws that you simply cannot excuse on bad protection. And it wasn't just one or two, he really started missing badly. On throws that would have won us another game or two at least. He just shit the bed, for whatever reason. He's like Dalton, Dalton looks like such a stud and then if you watched the game tonight you see that he misses very badly on key throws. Watching Dalton tonight reminded me a lot on some of our past qb's including Hoyer.....at times they make clutch throws and then inconceivably miss easy gimme's that no NFL qb should miss more than once or twice a season. Hoyer just started to miss on too many easy throws and naturally it shitcanned his confidence on the big throws. Pettine had to see what he had in JF. It didn't work out but it is what it is...we now know JF is more of a project than we thought.
haha. yea I agree I really love some stuff hoyer does when our offense is balanced. and then sometimes I'm saying WTF? did you through that ball for? and some are just straight up bad throws...under thrown, overthrown. yea pisses me off got me cussin' at home
haha. yea I agree I really love some stuff hoyer does when our offense is balanced. and then sometimes I'm saying WTF? did you through that ball for? and some are just straight up bad throws...under thrown, overthrown. yea pisses me off got me cussin' at home
but I have seen more than one moment when I am saying..hmm Tom Bradyish style and throw on the money
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it's gonna be a fucked offseason in terms of that position cause there's not really a whole lot of places to turn. If Hoyer leaves we can take a run at Bradford or Cutler (ugghh)...but who else? We could pull a Washington and mortgage our shit for Mariota.....and then watch him get hurt promise you it would go down like that this is Cleveland. I really think the best we can hope for is to retain Hoyer and JF and just say hey neither of you is guaranteed the starting position. Well Hoyer could probably be guaranteed the whole season next year but if he puts in another seesaw season he has to understand it's gonna be competition the following year. If he leaves I still think we should retain JF unless someone just thinks he'd be awesome in their system and is willing to really give us something good for him. I dunno.
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it's gonna be a fucked offseason in terms of that position cause there's not really a whole lot of places to turn. If Hoyer leaves we can take a run at Bradford or Cutler (ugghh)...but who else? We could pull a Washington and mortgage our shit for Mariota.....and then watch him get hurt promise you it would go down like that this is Cleveland. I really think the best we can hope for is to retain Hoyer and JF and just say hey neither of you is guaranteed the starting position. Well Hoyer could probably be guaranteed the whole season next year but if he puts in another seesaw season he has to understand it's gonna be competition the following year. If he leaves I still think we should retain JF unless someone just thinks he'd be awesome in their system and is willing to really give us something good for him. I dunno.
it's gonna be a fucked offseason in terms of that position cause there's not really a whole lot of places to turn. If Hoyer leaves we can take a run at Bradford or Cutler (ugghh)...but who else? We could pull a Washington and mortgage our shit for Mariota.....and then watch him get hurt promise you it would go down like that this is Cleveland. I really think the best we can hope for is to retain Hoyer and JF and just say hey neither of you is guaranteed the starting position. Well Hoyer could probably be guaranteed the whole season next year but if he puts in another seesaw season he has to understand it's gonna be competition the following year. If he leaves I still think we should retain JF unless someone just thinks he'd be awesome in their system and is willing to really give us something good for him. I dunno.
dude we absolutely need depth on the online. and our D-line was destroyed this year was rough. idk.I think we need to draft WR, O-line , and D-line first. stay with Hoyer and Shaw and idk about JFF yet....cutler?? lol idk maybe but he his A. Dalton equal ....hit or miss...just like Horyer. I really like Kyle's off. system
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