Going to be a lot if disappointed guys in here come start of next season..
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I don't think having Hoyer and Manziel on the same team is feasible at this point. At this point I'd take Hoyer next season if nothing else Hoyer at least gives two shits.
I don't see why people think it's out of the question to move on. If the guy was really giving it his all and looked like he had some semblance of a clue what was going on I would definitely give him another shot, but dude hasn't even fucking tried and has said as much himself. Then to come out and vow to do what it takes to be the guy and blah blah blah and three days later fucking blow all that off and party right in the face of his teammates, coaches, organization and fans . . . It's a fucking disgrace. I'd be tempted to cut his ass first thing if I was Haslam, but I would at least see what I could get for him. Why people are so quick to give these guys a pass for not giving a damn is beyond me. They make a shit ton of money off you and you just let them piss on your face . . . and you're totally cool with it . . . WTF? The most pissed out of all of us should be the guys who showed up here singing his praises . . . How has this little shit repayed your loyalty? . . . By not giving a flying fuck that's how. There's no defense.
All that said, I hope the kid turns it around regardless what happens. Although, I never see him being a viable starter in the NFL.
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JF has potential upside that hoyer doesn't......what we do know is that hoyers best isn't nearly good enough. We don't know that about JF yet
yeah I agree but you can obviously see that JF is more than an offseason away from figuring out the NFL game, right? Just tell me you see that? Because anyone that's watched football for more than a season or two can see that the kid is not ready. And when under pressure he reverts to his old college station throws that Evans always bailed him out on, can't do that in the NFL. Even Stafford sometimes gets nicked cause he thinks Megatron will bail him out of a bad throw, and that's megatron one of the purest freeks the NFL has ever seen at that position. JF ain't ready.
yeah I agree but you can obviously see that JF is more than an offseason away from figuring out the NFL game, right? Just tell me you see that? Because anyone that's watched football for more than a season or two can see that the kid is not ready. And when under pressure he reverts to his old college station throws that Evans always bailed him out on, can't do that in the NFL. Even Stafford sometimes gets nicked cause he thinks Megatron will bail him out of a bad throw, and that's megatron one of the purest freeks the NFL has ever seen at that position. JF ain't ready.
Sure JF is not ready to step on th field after one offseason and be excellent. It takes time, and there are so,e growing pains when breaking in a new qb. But it is done with live action- unfortunately JF hasn't gotten much yet and it will start next year.
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While 5-11 is absolutely a stretch with JF under center next year....I still love the comment 5-11 is more impressive than 7-9. If we go 5-11 next year and Pettine says hey wait a second guys, the schedule was a lot harder this year so 5-11 is def more impressive than 7-9. I'm loathe to fire another coach after just 2 seasons but if I hear that out of him, which I won't....I will be the first to say get rid of him. If any coach at his year end presser ever said something to that effect he'd be ridiculed in the league for years to come. It would become an overnight meme.
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has anybody here actually taken into consideration our record pre and post Alex Mack??? at all?? we have had, I believe 4 starting Centers this year. anybody wondering why our season took a shit at that peticular moment? i think as a QB and you're running for your life every play than yea bad things happen...everytime. Hoyer is really good when our run game was in the top 5 and play action was lights out even without Gordon...Alex Mack stays healthy...who knows
thoughts from the Dawgpound
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5-11 is always more impressive then 7-9. Especially if JFF is the one losing the games........
5-11 is always more impressive then 7-9. Especially if JFF is the one losing the games........
???
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has anybody here actually taken into consideration our record pre and post Alex Mack??? at all?? we have had, I believe 4 starting Centers this year. anybody wondering why our season took a shit at that peticular moment? i think as a QB and you're running for your life every play than yea bad things happen...everytime. Hoyer is really good when our run game was in the top 5 and play action was lights out even without Gordon...Alex Mack stays healthy...who knows
thoughts from the Dawgpound
has anybody here actually taken into consideration our record pre and post Alex Mack??? at all?? we have had, I believe 4 starting Centers this year. anybody wondering why our season took a shit at that peticular moment? i think as a QB and you're running for your life every play than yea bad things happen...everytime. Hoyer is really good when our run game was in the top 5 and play action was lights out even without Gordon...Alex Mack stays healthy...who knows
thoughts from the Dawgpound
well the thing is Hoyer started making some throws that you simply cannot excuse on bad protection. And it wasn't just one or two, he really started missing badly. On throws that would have won us another game or two at least. He just shit the bed, for whatever reason. He's like Dalton, Dalton looks like such a stud and then if you watched the game tonight you see that he misses very badly on key throws. Watching Dalton tonight reminded me a lot on some of our past qb's including Hoyer.....at times they make clutch throws and then inconceivably miss easy gimme's that no NFL qb should miss more than once or twice a season. Hoyer just started to miss on too many easy throws and naturally it shitcanned his confidence on the big throws. Pettine had to see what he had in JF. It didn't work out but it is what it is...we now know JF is more of a project than we thought.
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has anybody here actually taken into consideration our record pre and post Alex Mack??? at all?? we have had, I believe 4 starting Centers this year. anybody wondering why our season took a shit at that peticular moment? i think as a QB and you're running for your life every play than yea bad things happen...everytime. Hoyer is really good when our run game was in the top 5 and play action was lights out even without Gordon...Alex Mack stays healthy...who knows
thoughts from the Dawgpound
well the thing is Hoyer started making some throws that you simply cannot excuse on bad protection. And it wasn't just one or two, he really started missing badly. On throws that would have won us another game or two at least. He just shit the bed, for whatever reason. He's like Dalton, Dalton looks like such a stud and then if you watched the game tonight you see that he misses very badly on key throws. Watching Dalton tonight reminded me a lot on some of our past qb's including Hoyer.....at times they make clutch throws and then inconceivably miss easy gimme's that no NFL qb should miss more than once or twice a season. Hoyer just started to miss on too many easy throws and naturally it shitcanned his confidence on the big throws. Pettine had to see what he had in JF. It didn't work out but it is what it is...we now know JF is more of a project than we thought.
well the thing is Hoyer started making some throws that you simply cannot excuse on bad protection. And it wasn't just one or two, he really started missing badly. On throws that would have won us another game or two at least. He just shit the bed, for whatever reason. He's like Dalton, Dalton looks like such a stud and then if you watched the game tonight you see that he misses very badly on key throws. Watching Dalton tonight reminded me a lot on some of our past qb's including Hoyer.....at times they make clutch throws and then inconceivably miss easy gimme's that no NFL qb should miss more than once or twice a season. Hoyer just started to miss on too many easy throws and naturally it shitcanned his confidence on the big throws. Pettine had to see what he had in JF. It didn't work out but it is what it is...we now know JF is more of a project than we thought.
haha. yea I agree I really love some stuff hoyer does when our offense is balanced. and then sometimes I'm saying WTF? did you through that ball for? and some are just straight up bad throws...under thrown, overthrown. yea pisses me off got me cussin' at home
Don't you wish you had taken the "Blue Pill"? https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10202829424159899&l=93ed4a6e53 -
well the thing is Hoyer started making some throws that you simply cannot excuse on bad protection. And it wasn't just one or two, he really started missing badly. On throws that would have won us another game or two at least. He just shit the bed, for whatever reason. He's like Dalton, Dalton looks like such a stud and then if you watched the game tonight you see that he misses very badly on key throws. Watching Dalton tonight reminded me a lot on some of our past qb's including Hoyer.....at times they make clutch throws and then inconceivably miss easy gimme's that no NFL qb should miss more than once or twice a season. Hoyer just started to miss on too many easy throws and naturally it shitcanned his confidence on the big throws. Pettine had to see what he had in JF. It didn't work out but it is what it is...we now know JF is more of a project than we thought.
haha. yea I agree I really love some stuff hoyer does when our offense is balanced. and then sometimes I'm saying WTF? did you through that ball for? and some are just straight up bad throws...under thrown, overthrown. yea pisses me off got me cussin' at home
haha. yea I agree I really love some stuff hoyer does when our offense is balanced. and then sometimes I'm saying WTF? did you through that ball for? and some are just straight up bad throws...under thrown, overthrown. yea pisses me off got me cussin' at home
but I have seen more than one moment when I am saying..hmm Tom Bradyish style and throw on the money
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it's gonna be a fucked offseason in terms of that position cause there's not really a whole lot of places to turn. If Hoyer leaves we can take a run at Bradford or Cutler (ugghh)...but who else? We could pull a Washington and mortgage our shit for Mariota.....and then watch him get hurt promise you it would go down like that this is Cleveland. I really think the best we can hope for is to retain Hoyer and JF and just say hey neither of you is guaranteed the starting position. Well Hoyer could probably be guaranteed the whole season next year but if he puts in another seesaw season he has to understand it's gonna be competition the following year. If he leaves I still think we should retain JF unless someone just thinks he'd be awesome in their system and is willing to really give us something good for him. I dunno.
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it's gonna be a fucked offseason in terms of that position cause there's not really a whole lot of places to turn. If Hoyer leaves we can take a run at Bradford or Cutler (ugghh)...but who else? We could pull a Washington and mortgage our shit for Mariota.....and then watch him get hurt promise you it would go down like that this is Cleveland. I really think the best we can hope for is to retain Hoyer and JF and just say hey neither of you is guaranteed the starting position. Well Hoyer could probably be guaranteed the whole season next year but if he puts in another seesaw season he has to understand it's gonna be competition the following year. If he leaves I still think we should retain JF unless someone just thinks he'd be awesome in their system and is willing to really give us something good for him. I dunno.
it's gonna be a fucked offseason in terms of that position cause there's not really a whole lot of places to turn. If Hoyer leaves we can take a run at Bradford or Cutler (ugghh)...but who else? We could pull a Washington and mortgage our shit for Mariota.....and then watch him get hurt promise you it would go down like that this is Cleveland. I really think the best we can hope for is to retain Hoyer and JF and just say hey neither of you is guaranteed the starting position. Well Hoyer could probably be guaranteed the whole season next year but if he puts in another seesaw season he has to understand it's gonna be competition the following year. If he leaves I still think we should retain JF unless someone just thinks he'd be awesome in their system and is willing to really give us something good for him. I dunno.
dude we absolutely need depth on the online. and our D-line was destroyed this year was rough. idk.I think we need to draft WR, O-line , and D-line first. stay with Hoyer and Shaw and idk about JFF yet....cutler?? lol idk maybe but he his A. Dalton equal ....hit or miss...just like Horyer. I really like Kyle's off. system
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At this time, don't over think it... Connor Shaw Starter 2015=73 Thomas say's it, Only 1 week with #1's,?? coaches that say play best player to win games?? Hoyer will get over paid by 3 teams he's out. JF had every chance to beat out a career backup, as we see it, need's to grow up and learn a NFL QB position. Did not like Shaw's touch on short ball's, looked more like a lob but the rest was not knowing WR's tendencies, and that comes with time and I think coaches will finally give him a chance. Shaw and JF[if not traded or cut] and a ?? FA or LATE QB draft pick will be our starter for 2015..I think the player's will play for Shaw as it is now. Go Browns!!
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I think the reason that Brian Hoyer will not and probably should not come back is the fact that even his supporters glumly admit is not very good. At best a journeyman backup which since you guys give him extra points for his birthplace probably means slightly below average.
The Kirk Cousins or Sam Bradford or Kyle Orton type of player aren't going to get the blind loyalty beyond the love that a backup quarterback always gets.
And think about it kids if coach GM and everybody else hated Johnny as badly as you did why would they ever start him? And if they did so because Jimmy Haslam ordered it then why care about the coaching staff at all? Try to be realistic. We have Steelers to hate.
WSS
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You are probably right about JFF remaining on the team, but most morons could make that prediction, you aren't some genius for touting that one out.
1)Is johnny still a bit immature? Maybe maybe not?
Of course he's more than just a bit immature you flaming bag of dog shit.
2)Hoyer was TERRIBLE, but JFF was just bad?
Are you kidding with this one?
3)Hoyer was bad all season?
Apparently you weren't watching the first half of the season cause your boy crush JFF wasn't in to arouse your pedophiliac baby dick.
These are just three examples of the Retardation that afflicts you that I mentioned in my previous post.
JFs sample was so limited that not much can be taken from it....except he didn't play well in that very limited sample. We will know more when he has a number of starts.
Hoyer had a bunch of starts and proved he is what he is - a journeyman backup.
JFs sample was so limited that not much can be taken from it....except he didn't play well in that very limited sample. We will know more when he has a number of starts.
Hoyer had a bunch of starts and proved he is what he is - a journeyman backup.
Manziel has a long way to go to achieve being a journeyman back up.....probably never will. He sucks.
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Connor Shaw 2014 > Johnny Manziel 2014
Brian Hoyer 2014 > Johnny Manziel 2014
You're only saying he needs to start and needs time "because he's a first round pick" (I put that in quotes because obviously the real reason is a deeper love for him)
He's the worst QB we've had on the roster in 2014* - that's probably including Thigpen. It's been pretty specifically stated that what round you're drafted in doesn't matter to the organization. They put the hardest workers who give the best chance to win in. Although to counter that you say "QB is different"
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Fuck, I'm still rooting for JFF, but at this rate he'd have to really F'ing prove it over the next 8 months to win (actually fucking earn) the starting job and if that's the standard, what's he done over the last 8 months to have anyone, from a stupid-ass fan, to Donte Whitner, to Pettine, expect that'll happen?
And I'd like a better stopgap than Hoyer but the best available FAs at this point are Locker, Sanchez, Ponder, Pryor, Mallett, so well, maybe one of those guys in year one with Shanny is better than Hoyer in year two.
Finally, and I know, I know, but my simple fucking mind still winds up over and over again at
Hoyer 10-6, everyone else 1-15
So JFF will still be here in 2015, but after watching his 2 starting efforts, who thinks JFF would've been better earlier in the season? Who thinks he'll be ready week 1 next season? - mainly in how unprepared he looked moreso than just a rookie playing badly. Shaw had about a C- game yesterday, even on a curve. But, at least he didn't need 3 am cram sessions, could call the plays, wanted to compete, made a couple nice throws and wasn't peeing his pants. Wow, what a high fucking bar, and JFF hasn't cleared even that. So that's how far JFF is away from being a No. 1 QB, even at a Hoyer level, but the good news is he's 22, I can be patient. At the same time, it's tougher to just call 10-6 shit and throw it away.
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The key to minimizing the setbacks from a busted first round pick is knowing when to stop the hemorrhaging. I'd hate to see us have to waste next season finding out if Manziel is the QB they hoped he'd be and find out he still sucks. Seems they have a good read on him (as they held him out this year until they had no choice) so here's hoping they figure him out and make a good decision. He'll make it easy for them if he continues to do what he's been doing off-field let alone on-field.
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Mid range starters are guys like joe flacco, Matt stafford, etc....
Hoyer has proven he is not a starter, but if he is he is the worst in the league.
Flacco and Stafford are more than mid range. At the least they are upper mid range. Both of those guys would be close to the best qb's Cleveland has ever had...especially Flacco.
Flacco and Stafford are more than mid range. At the least they are upper mid range. Both of those guys would be close to the best qb's Cleveland has ever had...especially Flacco.
False. Otto graham. It's gonna take a Tom Brady to be better than Otto. Flacco won't do it.
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Nobody should be guaranteed anything for next season at any position.
Today, Brian Hoyer is the best quarterback on the roster. It is not even debatable. Of course, we can't run him out of town quick enough. Sign Brian Hoyer if you still can, which is highly unlikely while JF is on the roster, keep Shaw and bring in a couple of vets. Use the draft and FA to address the other needs.
Sure, Hoyer is a great story with the hometown angle, but he is also the best QB on the roster today. And a true professional who is an above average leader that his teammates respect and will follow.
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