Bryan Hoyer open to returning to Browns
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I don't think we are going to find our QB in this coming off season. That means we draft core players and keep improving this team. If we get a great team we can win with a suitable qb, so build that great team, get the suitable qb, and groom our future guy. The question is, can JFF buckle down, and work his ass off? Of he does he maybe, maybe could be the guy in a couple years. He would have to work super hard though after watching him play. I don't think he can do that.
So hoyer for now is probably a good option. I would also be interested in Bradford or even cutler (I know you all hate him, but he's good)
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Actually no one is seriously disputing Johnny's talent, just his attitude. Attitudes can change.
(or not I know)
also
This might will be the best place for BH.
A fan base who wants to give you the benefit of the doubt and a team that should be a little bit better next year. The downside would be the horrendous schedule we face. But unless I'm mistaken, & I might well be, he does not seem like a money grubber or an opportunist. If there's any money grubbing to be done its most likely his agent. That's what they get paid for.
WSS
I am. Always have. His game is not suited for the pro level and his improvement since his time in College Station has been minimal at best.
That makes two of us at least- though I'm not willing to call Manziel a total bust yet. I want to see him working his ass off to improve though. He's been duly humbled, both on and off the field. Let's see if he's really sincere about being 100% dedicated to making it in the NFL. Found out the hard way the NFL is a completely different animal than college.
That makes two of us at least-
Three actually.....haven't seen ANYTHING to make me believe he's gonna be good....not one thing to hang my hat on...
I think it takes 3 things to make it in the NFL.....the right body(size/strength)......talent......and the right mind set(work ethic, smarts, effort)......
Maybe JFF has the "talent" part(maybe)....but so far hasn't shown the rest....wrong size, poor work ethic, not a football mind, very little effort, etc....
And, yes, we will see if he's sincere about getting it together.....apparently he wasn't sincere the first 10 times he said so though
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Actually no one is seriously disputing Johnny's talent, just his attitude. Attitudes can change.
(or not I know)
also
This might will be the best place for BH.
A fan base who wants to give you the benefit of the doubt and a team that should be a little bit better next year. The downside would be the horrendous schedule we face. But unless I'm mistaken, & I might well be, he does not seem like a money grubber or an opportunist. If there's any money grubbing to be done its most likely his agent. That's what they get paid for.
WSS
I am. Always have. His game is not suited for the pro level and his improvement since his time in College Station has been minimal at best.
That makes two of us at least- though I'm not willing to call Manziel a total bust yet. I want to see him working his ass off to improve though. He's been duly humbled, both on and off the field. Let's see if he's really sincere about being 100% dedicated to making it in the NFL. Found out the hard way the NFL is a completely different animal than college.
That makes two of us at least- though I'm not willing to call Manziel a total bust yet. I want to see him working his ass off to improve though. He's been duly humbled, both on and off the field. Let's see if he's really sincere about being 100% dedicated to making it in the NFL. Found out the hard way the NFL is a completely different animal than college.
Make it 4.
What talent exactly are folks talking about? The one that can't pick up a playbook. The one that runs around looking like his head got chopped off. The one with lack of arm strength. What about his midget status?
What talent are folks enamoring about with this guy?
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And then there's the whole:......: βItβs a great scenario here, but you have to be wanted back.β
Exactly.....I think thats what Ward said last year......
Hey, if the Browns "know" BH isn't the future, then I respect them for moving on. I get that he may be the best option right now, but if that option isn't good enough for the long term, then it's best to start working toward finding the right one.
Why waste time on players you dont think you can win it all with? Now is the time to get it sorted....
Exactly.....I think thats what Ward said last year......
Hey, if the Browns "know" BH isn't the future, then I respect them for moving on. I get that he may be the best option right now, but if that option isn't good enough for the long term, then it's best to start working toward finding the right one.
Why waste time on players you dont think you can win it all with? Now is the time to get it sorted....
You recall this was Stockboy's arguement. The key difference is he wanted to do it when Hoyer was still winning games, but also when we didn't know anything yet in what Manziel had. And he repeated the point over and over endlessly.
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Good luck finding any QB available to the Browns in the next 6 months that you can "win it all with".
Sometimes you have to make due with what you've got.
Yeah, I get that....but the Browns may feel like they are spinning their wheels by playing players they KNOW aren't the guy...
Make do or try something new?...I think they want to keep moving forward and, to them, making do isn't moving forward....
Yeah, I get that....but the Browns may feel like they are spinning their wheels by playing players they KNOW aren't the guy...
But the guy to do what? Make the playoffs? Win the Division? Win the SuperBowl?
All are very different from "the QB giving us the best chance to win a given game".
All are goals that take more than even the greatest QB in history can supply. They are not a basis for evaluation.
That is what StockBoy never understood.
Clearly Hoyer gave us the best chance in 2014.
Worrying about having the best chance to win Week 1 and go from there.
Hoyer is an FA now does he give us the best chance to win Week 1 vs. all other FA's?
Vs. all QBs in the draft?
Vs. all QBs for which we might trade?
Worry about getting Week 1 right.
I am. Always have. (JM's) game is not suited for the pro level and his improvement since his time in College Station has been minimal at best.
That makes two of us
Three actually
Make it 4.
Five and counting...
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Exactly.....I think thats what Ward said last year......
Hey, if the Browns "know" BH isn't the future, then I respect them for moving on. I get that he may be the best option right now, but if that option isn't good enough for the long term, then it's best to start working toward finding the right one.
Why waste time on players you dont think you can win it all with? Now is the time to get it sorted....
You recall this was Stockboy's arguement. The key difference is he wanted to do it when Hoyer was still winning games, but also when we didn't know anything yet in what Manziel had. And he repeated the point over and over endlessly.
You recall this was Stockboy's arguement. .
ha!....so Ive heard....I honestly didnt read much of his schtick though.....
And again, I not promoting getting rid of Hoyer...Im merely speculating on WHY the Browns wouldn't want to sign him and trying to understand their thinking on it.......
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Yeah, I get that....but the Browns may feel like they are spinning their wheels by playing players they KNOW aren't the guy...
But the guy to do what? Make the playoffs? Win the Division? Win the SuperBowl?
All are very different from "the QB giving us the best chance to win a given game".
All are goals that take more than even the greatest QB in history can supply. They are not a basis for evaluation.
That is what StockBoy never understood.
Clearly Hoyer gave us the best chance in 2014.
Worrying about having the best chance to win Week 1 and go from there.
Hoyer is an FA now does he give us the best chance to win Week 1 vs. all other FA's?
Vs. all QBs in the draft?
Vs. all QBs for which we might trade?
Worry about getting Week 1 right.
I am. Always have. (JM's) game is not suited for the pro level and his improvement since his time in College Station has been minimal at best.
That makes two of us
Three actually
Make it 4.
Five and counting...
Make it 6.Five and counting...
I think the organization would be nuts to let Hoyer walk. I think it's clear we can't depend on Johnny. We can't keep throwing good money after bad on first round draft picks until we get the rest of the team in place. A least with Brian, he's shown he can win IN OUR DIVISION, and would offer stability at the position which we have been sorely lacking for so long. Why take a chance on a different Brian Hoyer when we already have one? Makes no sense,
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Make it 6.Five and counting...
I think the organization would be nuts to let Hoyer walk. I think it's clear we can't depend on Johnny. We can't keep throwing good money after bad on first round draft picks until we get the rest of the team in place. A least with Brian, he's shown he can win IN OUR DIVISION, and would offer stability at the position which we have been sorely lacking for so long. Why take a chance on a different Brian Hoyer when we already have one? Makes no sense,
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Hoyer a bridge far enough
Hoyer is not a pro bowler but he is pretty good and he could be, but let's remember what he did with Alex Mack in the line up with few and young weapons. Plan should be to keep him and build around him. What's our needs. Deep threat, pass rusher, offensive lineman another tight end. What we don't need running back defensive back linebacker , manziel gilbert. So if possible package them to together for a first rounder and then we have three. Trade up get wr copper Bama, de Beasley Clemson, te o'leary florida st, and a o lineman. Bottom line is we have to stop taking qbs in the draft and let it come to us. Hoyer is more than capable with weapons. On top of that our backfield will be much improved next year. Kansas City and Arizona have both done this and it works. But the most I'm portant thing is to get the distractions out of the locker room . And at this point keeping Gordon is up in the air. I think hoyer an do the job and lead the team next year.
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Pettine and Farmer want players that embody the culture they are trying build in Cleveland, and Hoyer is a guy that has those traits. He's also someone who was able to manage 7 wins this season, did and will compete with every quarterback on the roster for the starting position, and actually wants to be in Cleveland. If the price is right, we should sign him. At the least, he's a solid backup, something every team needs.
There's a lot of talk here about what Hoyer isn't (or what he is, depending on how you look at it). What there isn't enough of is an actual breakdown of what he was this year. His season stats are an indication of his season, but they don't consider things such as his 2013 injury or the loss of Mack. The following are Hoyer's QBR by week, through his last start in week 14.
Week 1: 45.6 (18th)
Week 2: 67.9 (13th)
Week 3: 89.8 (6th)
Week 4: BYE
Week 5: 72.6 (11th)
Week 6: 93.6 (2nd)
LOSS OF ALEX MACK
Week 7: 7.8 (30th)
Week 8: 60.1 (15th)
Week 9: 30.9 (18th)
Week 10: 79.6 (5th)
Week 11: 23.9 (23rd)
Week 12: 36.2 (17th)
Week 13: 24.9 (26th)
Week 14: 15.1 (28th)
Until Mack went down, Hoyer's play was good enough that Manziel was an afterthought. He wasn't elite, but was good enough to get he win, and did so when we weren't melting down on special teams. He was better than half the quarterbacks in the league through week 6, and something changed to put him in the lower second half for most of 8 weeks that followed. The weakness of our line most definitely played into his poor play. Playing into it as well was likely fatigue due to his 2013 ACL injury to his right (plant) leg. Hell, the guy was talked about as possibly having the best deep ball in the league early in the season and finished the season barely able to complete a pass over 15 yards. Without strength in the plant leg, a quarterback can't do much. An arm alone won't make it in this league, much like swinging without trunk rotation and proper weight distribution won't hack it in the MLB.
I'm not saying Hoyer is our guy in the sense that he's the man, but he may very well possess the skills to be the guy in the sense that he can do enough to get us into the post season. If he's not good enough to get us post season wins, then replace him when we have a suitable replacement. At least we will create a much needed culture of winning in the mean time. Build the O line in the offseason. Draft a number 2 wide receiver in the 2nd or 3rd round. A solid O line with Crowell/West, Cameron, and Gordon/Rookie/Hawkins/Gabriel would be something I think a fully healthy and recovered (if his injury was an issue) Hoyer could work well with.
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If this isn't a situation to transition tag a guy then I don't know what is
"We are Americans. We don't quit doing something because it's wrong. We just keep doing the wrong thing till it turns out right." Browns maybe the most American Football team ever. -
my god no way he should get 15m, over 3 years sure, but not one. Dear god if he thinks he's worth 15 for one season than ship him the fuck out I don't even want to see his face. I appreciate what he did in the beginning of the season but if, like it was rumored before the season, he wanted Peyton Manning money....no uh uh. I'd rather watch JF struggle and maybe make himself into an NFL QB than watch a guy we're locked into paying Peyton Manning like money make some of the throws I saw out of Hoyer this season.
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I'd overpay Hoyer for a few years until the right franchise QB comes around. Build up both lines now and draft a QB later.
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Make it 6.
7
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Exactly.....I think thats what Ward said last year......
Hey, if the Browns "know" BH isn't the future, then I respect them for moving on. I get that he may be the best option right now, but if that option isn't good enough for the long term, then it's best to start working toward finding the right one.
Why waste time on players you dont think you can win it all with? Now is the time to get it sorted....
You recall this was Stockboy's arguement. The key difference is he wanted to do it when Hoyer was still winning games, but also when we didn't know anything yet in what Manziel had. And he repeated the point over and over endlessly.
You recall this was Stockboy's arguement. The key difference is he wanted to do it when Hoyer was still winning games, but also when we didn't know anything yet in what Manziel had. And he repeated the point over and over endlessly.
LOL, should me and Z invite him back to eat a mega dose of crap? Nah unfortunately, that ship has sailed. It would be immense fun to pile on though, just how wrong he was about JFF.
But the guy to do what? Make the playoffs? Win the Division? Win the SuperBowl?
All are very different from "the QB giving us the best chance to win a given game".
All are goals that take more than even the greatest QB in history can supply. They are not a basis for evaluation.
That is what StockBoy never understood.
Clearly Hoyer gave us the best chance in 2014.
Worrying about having the best chance to win Week 1 and go from there.
Hoyer is an FA now does he give us the best chance to win Week 1 vs. all other FA's?
Vs. all QBs in the draft?
Vs. all QBs for which we might trade?
Worry about getting Week 1 right.
Five and counting...EDIT: we're up to eight.
LOL, If Pettine, Farmer, Shanahan, and Haslam make it an even dozen, Johnny's going to be looking for employment elsewhere. May have to let our resident historian Gip look up what's the fastest a first round pick has ever been cut. Richardson has to be at least closest, if not the first- top 10 pick to ever get traded short of 2 years.
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All about the Benjamin's. TB and Tenn. draft top QB's that's a given. Leaves Rams, Bears, Jets, Texans and now Bills in QB Market. Hoyer, Locker, Sanchez stock on the rise, Not a QB draft after Petty at 5. 15mill on 3yrs. is a good deal but it's the NFL and it's getting more like 18 to 20mill. on 3 yrs. We our going to have to over pay him for a career backup or cut bait. I am a big Hoyer fan so I hope his Family decides to stay at home and we offer him a deal that he knows we want him here. I do realize the price is going to be NFL ridiculous. Shaw Backup- JF at this point will never grow up as he thinks he said.. Go Browns!!
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All about the Benjamin's. TB and Tenn. draft top QB's that's a given. Leaves Rams, Bears, Jets, Texans and now Bills in QB Market. Hoyer, Locker, Sanchez stock on the rise, Not a QB draft after Petty at 5. 15mill on 3yrs. is a good deal but it's the NFL and it's getting more like 18 to 20mill. on 3 yrs. We our going to have to over pay him for a career backup or cut bait. I am a big Hoyer fan so I hope his Family decides to stay at home and we offer him a deal that he knows we want him here. I do realize the price is going to be NFL ridiculous. Shaw Backup- JF at this point will never grow up as he thinks he said.. Go Browns!!
All about the Benjamin's. TB and Tenn. draft top QB's that's a given. Leaves Rams, Bears, Jets, Texans and now Bills in QB Market. Hoyer, Locker, Sanchez stock on the rise, Not a QB draft after Petty at 5. 15mill on 3yrs. is a good deal but it's the NFL and it's getting more like 18 to 20mill. on 3 yrs. We our going to have to over pay him for a career backup or cut bait. I am a big Hoyer fan so I hope his Family decides to stay at home and we offer him a deal that he knows we want him here. I do realize the price is going to be NFL ridiculous. Shaw Backup- JF at this point will never grow up as he thinks he said.. Go Browns!!
I don't get why we can't offer him a contract for 5+ years at backup pay, but with incentives for starting/TDs/Wins/Playoffs/SBs that would give him starting money; then give him an opt-out clause if he hasn't played more than 50% of the games after 2 years, or something like that.
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Because Manziel was so bad I think people are kind of forgetting how horrible Hoyer was for 4-6 weeks in a row.
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