Upgrade?...or not...lets have a look

[Mudfly]

Ok...I know there is disappointment with how we finished and much conjecture(as always) about where this team is heading.....and I also know how easy it is to forget the horror of past seasons....so lets have a quicky team for team comparison from this time last year(that's only 1 year) and see where we are.....

FO and offense first.....d to follow later...

Front Office:

Last year.....Banner and Lombardi, who were just embarrassing. Schmucks to the tenth power.

This year....Schiener and Farmer, both who seem to be intelligent, clear headed hires. I think Farmer scored more players from his first draft than Lombardi has in his entire career.

Score....+1 for absolute positive upgrade

Coaching staff:

Last year......Chud, Horton and Turner. Personally, I think Chud was in WAY over his head. Horton was ok, but not the superstar they acted like he was. And Turner, while competent, maybe a bit outdated.

This year....Pettine, Oneil and Shanny. First of all, I think Pettine is a huge upgrade over Chud. A solid leader who isn't easily phased. The coordinators are both green and inexperienced. Id say they are a wash with last years guys, but should have a higher ceiling.

Score....+1 for upgrade....simply due to Pettine

Quarter Backs:

Last year.....Weeden, Hoyer and Campbell....no stars in this group

This year.....Hoyer, Manziel and Shaw.....no stars in this group either...

Score...........-1 ....no progress made here

Running Backs:

Last year.....Ogbonaya, McGahee, Baker, Fozzy...really, really pathetic and no hope for the future

This year.....Crowell, West, Winston and Draughn.....Yes!....young talent X 3...LOTs of hope here

Score .........+1 for absolute positive upgrade

Wide receivers:

Last year.....Gordon, Benjamin, Bess, Little & Cooper....wow!...this group really really was bad!

This year.....Gordon, Benjamin, Hawkins, Austin & Gabriel.....Yes sir....another vast improvement

Score...........+1 for absolute upgrade again

Tight Ends:

Last year.....Cameron, Barnidge, Grey

This year.....Cameron, Barnidge, Dray

Score..........0 (even)....Grey or Dray....yac vs good hands...trade off

Offensive Line:

Last year.....Thomas, Greco, Mack, Schwartz, Cousins, Gilkey & Lauvao

This year.....Thomas, Greco, Mack, Schwartz, Bitonio, Seymour & Painter ....Bit makes this line great

Score..........+1...as a starting unit, we are much improved....now for some depth

So....for the Front office and offense, the best possible score would be 7 and the worst possible score would be -7.....i see 5 areas we improved....1 that stayed the same.....and 1 that got worse....

BROWNS score(so far) = +4

[Kosar_For_President]

Finally someone positive.

[Browns149]

I agree on all positions except for the TE.

Yes we have the same guys but Cameron was way worse this year. Injuries hurt that position really bad this year, but it was a -1 for me. The production, even when Cameron was healthy was way off from last year

[Mark O]

QB was an improvement over last year. As bad as Hoyer looked for a few weeks, he looked decent for several weeks and decent is miles above anything Weedon gave us last season.

[Browns149]

@mark-o said:

QB was an improvement over last year. As bad as Hoyer looked for a few weeks, he looked decent for several weeks and decent is miles above anything Weedon gave us last season.

It did improve for some of the season, but at the end of the season it was no better then last year

[Mudfly]

and onto Defense!!!!

Defensive Line:

Rather than list them all twice, lets say we had the same core group as last year...k?

Score.......0 (even)....no significant changes in personnel

Linebackers:

Last year.....Robertson, Kruger, Sheard, Jackson, Mingo, Carder & Eubanks

This year.....Robertson, Kruger, Sheard, Dansby, Mingo, Kirksey & Solomon

Score..........+1....the additions of Dansby and Kirksey really upgraded us

Safety:

Last year:....Gipson, Ward, Bademosi, Aubrey

This year.....Gipson, Whitner, Leonard, Poyer

Score.........+1...upgraded slightly, but very close to even

Corner Back:

Last year.....Haden, Skrine, McFadden, Owens & Posey

This year.....Haden, Skrine, Williams, Desir, Gilbert & Nelson

Score..........+1....HUGE upgrade in talent and depth

Special Teams:

Last year.....Cundiff, Lanning, Benjamin and whomever

This year.....The same....

Score..........-1...we couldn't return punts all season long. That is a complete malfunction. Minus minus minus.

Ok....so Defense and Special teams could have a max score of 5 or a minimum score of minus 5.....

Browns score = +2

SO, in summary, out of 12 possible upgrade points, we scored a +6

8 areas improved

2 areas stayed even

2 area got worse.....

[Mudfly]

@browns149 said:

I agree on all positions except for the TE.

Yes we have the same guys but Cameron was way worse this year. Injuries hurt that position really bad this year, but it was a -1 for me. The production, even when Cameron was healthy was way off from last year

@mark-o said:

QB was an improvement over last year. As bad as Hoyer looked for a few weeks, he looked decent for several weeks and decent is miles above anything Weedon gave us last season.

@browns149 said:

It did improve for some of the season, but at the end of the season it was no better then last year

While I agree with these points, I am basically just comparing the "roster personnel" and not really accounting for individual performances....which can get real muddy real fast.....

[thenew23]

Pretty much nails it.

2 questions remain:

1. How many of our guys who are FAs are going to return?

2. Who is our qb?

Until we can answer question 2, we are spinning our wheels. I don't see a simple solution here either...

[Mudfly]

@thenew23 said:

Pretty much nails it.

2 questions remain:

1. How many of our guys who are FAs are going to return?

2. Who is our qb?

Until we can answer question 2, we are spinning our wheels. I don't see a simple solution here either...

No doubt....and short of a miracle, there wont be a QB answer anytime soon....so, I say build the shit out of the rest of the team, rather than overspending on retread QB's and making foolish reaches in the draft...

[Westside Steve]

To be honest (and you guys know I'm a Johnny supporter and think he has potential blah blah blah) I think the quarterback situation this year might not be as good. Of the three BH collapsed part way through this season, and was carried by the defense and run game in at least some of his successful starts.

Weeden never looked as bad as Johnny did in his six quarters. And I'd say Jason Campbell would probably be selected over Connor Shaw by any team in the league though without any gusto.

WSS

[Mudfly]

@westside-steve said:

To be honest (and you guys know I'm a Johnny supporter and think he has potential blah blah blah) I think the quarterback situation this year might not be as good. Of the three BH collapsed part way through this season, and was carried by the defense and run game in at least some of his successful starts.

Weeden never looked as bad as Johnny did in his six quarters. And I'd say Jason Campbell would probably be selected over Connor Shaw by any team in the league though without any gusto.

WSS

I reassessed and think you make a good arguement....and agree....so I went back and edited....all fixed

[Westside Steve]

@mudfly said:

I reassessed and think you make a good arguement....and agree....so I went back and edited....all fixed

Only Nixon could go to China.

WSS

[Tour2ma]

@mark-o said:

QB was an improvement over last year. As bad as Hoyer looked for a few weeks, he looked decent for several weeks and decent is miles above anything Weedon gave us last season.

Plus if the same D-line warrants a "0", then it escapes me as to how 4-times more starts by the best QB of the five on the combined roster can net a "-1".

Then again, you listened to Steve... so that explains a lot.

[bbedward]

I think it's pretty obvious we got better. Just need to continue the trend.

[Westside Steve]

@tour2ma said:

Plus if the same D-line warrants a "0", then it escapes me as to how 4-times more starts by the best QB of the five on the combined roster can net a "-1".

Then again, you listened to Steve... so that explains a lot.

His post was before mine but it's always a good idea to listen to me.

As candidate George Leroy Tirebiter said:

"I'm always right and I never lie."

WSS

[Mudfly]

@tour2ma said:

Plus if the same D-line warrants a "0", then it escapes me as to how 4-times more starts by the best QB of the five on the combined roster can net a "-1".

Then again, you listened to Steve... so that explains a lot.

Im just comparing roster spots...not starts or performance.....so Hoyer 2013 = Hoyer 2014 (a wash)...then it's #1 pick weeden VS #1 pick Manziel (and Weeden wins)....then it's Campbell VS Shaw (and, at this point, Campbell wins)....so, in the end, if I had to field a team to win a game today, I d rather have the 3 from 2013 than the 3 from 2014

And listening isnt bad if it allows you to reassess and be objective.....

@westside-steve said:

"I'm always right and I never lie."

Hey....I resemble that comment......

[RoyceRolls]

While I'm not a Manziel guy, I still thank god every day that Weeden isn't on the team. I genuinely hope that Retard gets the worst kind of cancer on top of AIDS. Fuck Brandon Weeden.

[TexasAg1969]

@bbedward said:

I think it's pretty obvious we got better. Just need to continue the trend.

Bingo! We have a winner. I like this thread. Much more positive than most I have seen here since joining the "family".

[The Gipper]

VesnaKociper said:

This isn't a matter of someone being positive or negative. All this horseshit +1, -1 analysis is just that, horseshit.

At 6-3 the Browns were energized and on an upward trend. At 7 - 9 the entire franchise was disorganized and I don't give a fuck who you are or how much you think you know about football, but it is impossible to point to ANY positive aspect of this team and project that we will recapture those things, PLUS add improvements.

There is nothing about this team that indicates where we will be next year. As it is, continuity in the NFL is hard to find, but on the Browns? The franchise is a mess.

I don't think the franchise was a disorganized mess. They had crucial injuries....expecially to Alex Mack and on the defense......and their QB situation turned into a disorganized mess. But that was just that one critical position. Had Brian Hoyer continued to play the way he did in the first half of the season, this would have been a fairly successful year. But he didn't.

[Tour2ma]

Well.... it was, Ag...

VesnaKociper said:

... it is impossible to point to ANY positive aspect of this team and project that we will recapture those things, PLUS add improvements.

====> O-line <====

Not only not impossible, but did it twice... in the same line.