Heirarchy
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Tier 5: Midgets
Tier 5: Midgets
Wilson blows that category up though.
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But Rivers is still the #6 rated passer in history.....that counts for something....isn't his fault he's been on a shit team....
Passer rating means nothing....at all....in my book. Jeff Garcia is one of the all time best in passer rating.
.....but if you say passer rating means something.....then look at their postseason passer rating. Eli is way, way ahead....in fact, he is ahead of his brother.
Flacco and Manning aren't even close statistically....
In what statistic?...Flacco is younger than both Eli and Rivers, so I will only compare the latter two who both came out the same year...and of course who were traded for each other:
Attempts; Eli 5609 Rivers 4678
Completions: Eli 3308 Rivers 3025
Yard: Eli 39,753 Rivers 36,655
Rating: Eli 82.4 Rivers 95.7
INTs: Eli 185 Rivers 122
YPG: Eli 235.2 Rivers 247.7
Comp. %: Eli 59.0 Rivers 64.7
Int. %: Eli 3.3 Rivers 2.6
TD %: Eli 4.6 Rivers 5.4
Game winning drives: Eli 31 River 23
Comebacks: Eli 26 Rivers 20
Championships: Eli 2 Rivers -0-
Eli and Rivers are pretty close statiscally....but what I read is that Eli is more clutch.
I didn't do this with Romo....but it may be interesting to do so.
So, to me, rating QB "quality" is more than rating how that QB's team has done....
Really? Any football coach/player will tell you that winning is the "rating quality" they are most interested in.
But Rivers is still the #6 rated passer in history.....that counts for something....isn't his fault he's been on a shit team....
Passer rating means nothing....at all....in my book. Jeff Garcia is one of the all time best in passer rating.
.....but if you say passer rating means something.....then look at their postseason passer rating. Eli is way, way ahead....in fact, he is ahead of his brother.
To me, passer rating is just part of the equation, just as winning is. Its clear that some QB's get elevated just because they are on good teams and some get devalued because they are on bad teams.
Flacco and Manning aren't even close statistically....
In what statistic?...Flacco is younger than both Eli and Rivers, so I will only compare the latter two who both came out the same year...and of course who were traded for each other:
Attempts; Eli 5609 Rivers 4678
Completions: Eli 3308 Rivers 3025
Yard: Eli 39,753 Rivers 36,655
Rating: Eli 82.4 Rivers 95.7
INTs: Eli 185 Rivers 122
YPG: Eli 235.2 Rivers 247.7
Comp. %: Eli 59.0 Rivers 64.7
Int. %: Eli 3.3 Rivers 2.6
TD %: Eli 4.6 Rivers 5.4
Game winning drives: Eli 31 River 23
Comebacks: Eli 26 Rivers 20
Championships: Eli 2 Rivers -0-
Eli and Rivers are pretty close statiscally....but what I read is that Eli is more clutch.
I didn't do this with Romo....but it may be interesting to do so.
I disagree on them being close, but Ill answer on your other thread.....
So, to me, rating QB "quality" is more than rating how that QB's team has done....
Really? Any football coach/player will tell you that winning is the "rating quality" they are most interested in.
So by this theory alone, Ely - Flacco - Doug Williams - Trent Dilfer & Brad Johnson are better than Jim Kelly, Dan Marino and Fran Tarkenton ....just because they had better teams?.....
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To me, passer rating is just part of the equation, just as winning is. Its clear that some QB's get elevated just because they are on good teams and some get devalued because they are on bad teams.
OK< but there is a lot of evidence that a main reason for a team being good is because of the QB. Just look at who is in the playoffs now.
The Browns overall in my opinion are as good as the Ravens......but whatta they got that we don't got? An outstanding QB.
Eli and Rivers are pretty close statiscally....but what I read is that Eli is more clutch.
I didn't do this with Romo....but it may be interesting to do so.
I disagree on them being close, but Ill answer on your other thread.
I don't see how you can "disagree" the stats are right there.
Really? Any football coach/player will tell you that winning is the "rating quality" they are most interested in.
So by this theory alone, Ely - Flacco - Doug Williams - Trent Dilfer & Brad Johnson are better than Jim Kelly, Dan Marino and Fran Tarkenton ....just because they had better teams?.....
Eli winning it twice was not a fluke. Flacco has one of the best all time post season records in history. He is not a fluke either.
Yes, a few mediocre QBs have won SBs and a few greats have not. But Eli and Flacco do not belong in the same category as Dilfer and Johnson. Those guys were journeymen that latched onto teams that had two of the greatest defenses of all time. Flacco and Eli are not in that category. Those teams won because of them,not in spite of them.
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To me, Flacco and Manning are B-level QBs in A-level organizations. Rivers and Romo have been A-level QBs on B-level organizations.
A+
Tom Brady
Peyton Manning
Aaron Rogers
Drew Brees
A
Ben Roethlisberger
Phillip Rivers
Tony Romo
B+
Andrew Luck
Russell Wilson
Joe Flacco
B
Eli Manning
Matt Stafford
Cam Newton
Matt Ryan
Carson Palmer
Colin Kaepernick
Andy Dalton
C+
Alex Smith
Ryan Tannehill
Nick Foles
Jay Cutler
C
Robert Griffin
Sam Bradford
C- (placeholders but really backups)
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Brian Hoyer
D (Developmental) in order:
Derek Carr
Teddy Twatwater
Blake Bortles
Geno Smith
Zack Mettenberger/
Mike Glennon/J
EJ Manuel
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well....we can debate it forever........
you put up your list and then asked our opinion.....thats mine....but not gonna argue it to death...
You can have Flacco....or Eli......Ill take Rivers. Everyone wins!
well....we can debate it forever........
you put up your list and then asked our opinion.....thats mine....but not gonna argue it to death...
You can have Flacco....or Eli......Ill take Rivers. Everyone wins!
You take Rivers with his 4-5 postseason record.
I will take Eli with his 8-3 playoff record....or Flacco with his 10-4 playoff record.....
And I will say "Scoreboard"..
(but it does pain me to do so as like I said, I like the Chargers better than the Giants or Ravens...so I am sorry to see you lose this one....but I gotta go by the facts ma'am.)
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To me, Flacco and Manning are B-level QBs in A-level organizations. Rivers and Romo have been A-level QBs on B-level organizations.
A+
Tom Brady
Peyton Manning
Aaron Rogers
Drew Brees
A
Ben Roethlisberger
Phillip Rivers
Tony Romo
B+
Andrew Luck
Russell Wilson
Joe Flacco
B
Eli Manning
Matt Stafford
Cam Newton
Matt Ryan
Carson Palmer
Colin Kaepernick
Andy Dalton
C+
Alex Smith
Ryan Tannehill
Nick Foles
Jay Cutler
C
Robert Griffin
Sam Bradford
C- (placeholders but really backups)
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Brian Hoyer
D (Developmental) in order:
Derek Carr
Teddy Twatwater
Blake Bortles
Geno Smith
Zack Mettenberger/
Mike Glennon/J
EJ Manuel
Zombo said:
To me, Flacco and Manning are B-level QBs in A-level organizations. Rivers and Romo have been A-level QBs on B-level organizations.
Much more in tune with my thinking.....pretty much agree with that list!
You take Rivers with his 4-5 postseason record.
I will take Eli with his 8-3 playoff record....or Flacco with his 10-4 playoff record.....
But, you dont get the winning record, you just get the Quarterback.....as wins/losses are a team function, not a player function...this is a thread about rating QB's, not teams....right?
IE....had ANY of these players played on a different team, their win/loss records would be very different....yet they would still be the same players....sooooo....
Rivers hasn't won anything, yet people seem to think he's pretty good.....what if he went to the Giants...could he be god by now?
What if Ely went to San Diego?....would he even be in this discussion?....(I doubt it)
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Zombo said:
To me, Flacco and Manning are B-level QBs in A-level organizations. Rivers and Romo have been A-level QBs on B-level organizations.
Much more in tune with my thinking.....pretty much agree with that list!
You take Rivers with his 4-5 postseason record.
I will take Eli with his 8-3 playoff record....or Flacco with his 10-4 playoff record.....
But, you dont get the winning record, you just get the Quarterback.....as wins/losses are a team function, not a player function...this is a thread about rating QB's, not teams....right?
IE....had ANY of these players played on a different team, their win/loss records would be very different....yet they would still be the same players....sooooo....
Rivers hasn't won anything, yet people seem to think he's pretty good.....what if he went to the Giants...could he be god by now?
What if Ely went to San Diego?....would he even be in this discussion?....(I doubt it)
Much more in tune with my thinking.....pretty much agree with that list!
But, you dont get the winning record, you just get the Quarterback.....as wins/losses are a team function, not a player function...this is a thread about rating QB's, not teams....right?
IE....had ANY of these players played on a different team, their win/loss records would be very different....yet they would still be the same players....sooooo....
Rivers hasn't won anything, yet people seem to think he's pretty good.....what if he went to the Giants...could he be god by now?
What if Ely went to San Diego?....would he even be in this discussion?....(I doubt it)
You are talking about what coulda/woulda happened. I am talking about what HAS happened. When Romo and Rivers have had their opportunities to put their teams on their backs and win the big games, they have failed. Eli did not fail, he succeeded spectacularly.
So....actual accomplishment must count for something......not theoretical ability.
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Much more in tune with my thinking.....pretty much agree with that list!
But, you dont get the winning record, you just get the Quarterback.....as wins/losses are a team function, not a player function...this is a thread about rating QB's, not teams....right?
IE....had ANY of these players played on a different team, their win/loss records would be very different....yet they would still be the same players....sooooo....
Rivers hasn't won anything, yet people seem to think he's pretty good.....what if he went to the Giants...could he be god by now?
What if Ely went to San Diego?....would he even be in this discussion?....(I doubt it)
You are talking about what coulda/woulda happened. I am talking about what HAS happened. When Romo and Rivers have had their opportunities to put their teams on their backs and win the big games, they have failed. Eli did not fail, he succeeded spectacularly.
So....actual accomplishment must count for something......not theoretical ability.
You are talking about what coulda/woulda happened. I am talking about what HAS happened. When Romo and Rivers have had their opportunities to put their teams on their backs and win the big games, they have failed. Eli did not fail, he succeeded spectacularly.
So....actual accomplishment must count for something......not theoretical ability.
Ok you win.....Ely is GREAT!....and better than Rivers....
Actually, thats a lie....I disagree....moving on now.....bye
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To me, Flacco and Manning are B-level QBs in A-level organizations. Rivers and Romo have been A-level QBs on B-level organizations.
A+
Tom Brady
Peyton Manning
Aaron Rogers
Drew Brees
A
Ben Roethlisberger
Phillip Rivers
Tony Romo
B+
Andrew Luck
Russell Wilson
Joe Flacco
B
Eli Manning
Matt Stafford
Cam Newton
Matt Ryan
Carson Palmer
Colin Kaepernick
Andy Dalton
C+
Alex Smith
Ryan Tannehill
Nick Foles
Jay Cutler
C
Robert Griffin
Sam Bradford
C- (placeholders but really backups)
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Brian Hoyer
D (Developmental) in order:
Derek Carr
Teddy Twatwater
Blake Bortles
Geno Smith
Zack Mettenberger/
Mike Glennon/J
EJ Manuel
Move Luck to A and Ryan to B+ and this is on the money.Zombo said:
To me, Flacco and Manning are B-level QBs in A-level organizations. Rivers and Romo have been A-level QBs on B-level organizations.
A+
Tom Brady
Peyton Manning
Aaron Rogers
Drew Brees
A
Ben Roethlisberger
Phillip Rivers
Tony Romo
B+
Andrew Luck
Russell Wilson
Joe Flacco
B
Eli Manning
Matt Stafford
Cam Newton
Matt Ryan
Carson Palmer
Colin Kaepernick
Andy Dalton
C+
Alex Smith
Ryan Tannehill
Nick Foles
Jay Cutler
C
Robert Griffin
Sam Bradford
C- (placeholders but really backups)
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Brian Hoyer
D (Developmental) in order:
Derek Carr
Teddy Twatwater
Blake Bortles
Geno Smith
Zack Mettenberger/
Mike Glennon/J
EJ Manuel
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Zombo said:
To me, Flacco and Manning are B-level QBs in A-level organizations. Rivers and Romo have been A-level QBs on B-level organizations.
Much more in tune with my thinking.....pretty much agree with that list!
You take Rivers with his 4-5 postseason record.
I will take Eli with his 8-3 playoff record....or Flacco with his 10-4 playoff record.....
But, you dont get the winning record, you just get the Quarterback.....as wins/losses are a team function, not a player function...this is a thread about rating QB's, not teams....right?
IE....had ANY of these players played on a different team, their win/loss records would be very different....yet they would still be the same players....sooooo....
Rivers hasn't won anything, yet people seem to think he's pretty good.....what if he went to the Giants...could he be god by now?
What if Ely went to San Diego?....would he even be in this discussion?....(I doubt it)
Much more in tune with my thinking.....pretty much agree with that list!
But, you dont get the winning record, you just get the Quarterback.....as wins/losses are a team function, not a player function...this is a thread about rating QB's, not teams....right?
IE....had ANY of these players played on a different team, their win/loss records would be very different....yet they would still be the same players....sooooo....
Rivers hasn't won anything, yet people seem to think he's pretty good.....what if he went to the Giants...could he be god by now?
What if Ely went to San Diego?....would he even be in this discussion?....(I doubt it)
If you put each QB on the exact same team....I still think Eli might come out the best. Again, to me, it is the "it" factor. The Clutch factor. Eli has proven to have it. The others have not. Quite the opposite.
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@everlastingxxx said:
Premium QBs or Elite ones are rare. Manning, Brady, Rodgers, Brees. Thatβs it. If Romo can win a Super Bowl he can join that conversation.
Eli has already won two. BR has already won two.
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