Time to grow up
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Every forum we see trade Gordo, and yes he's turned Randy Moss like, will not block and lazy till his numbers called. But honestly what is he worth with his background to other teams? A 2nd or 3rd rounder if were lucky. I don't see it's worth it for the backup talent. Next year is a contract year?? I Bet He Play's Well and We cannot give up on any Talent at WR at this Point.. Yes call it crazy but we are not drafting Amari Cooper with Gordon's value I don't think??
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Every forum we see trade Gordo, and yes he's turned Randy Moss like, will not block and lazy till his numbers called. But honestly what is he worth with his background to other teams? A 2nd or 3rd rounder if were lucky. I don't see it's worth it for the backup talent. Next year is a contract year?? I Bet He Play's Well and We cannot give up on any Talent at WR at this Point.. Yes call it crazy but we are not drafting Amari Cooper with Gordon's value I don't think??
Every forum we see trade Gordo, and yes he's turned Randy Moss like, will not block and lazy till his numbers called. But honestly what is he worth with his background to other teams? A 2nd or 3rd rounder if were lucky. I don't see it's worth it for the backup talent. Next year is a contract year?? I Bet He Play's Well and We cannot give up on any Talent at WR at this Point.. Yes call it crazy but we are not drafting Amari Cooper with Gordon's value I don't think??
no you probably don't get anything for him in a straight up trade, I dunno maybe Indy would be tempted to see what Luck could accomplish with him...god that would be something if we could offload another bust on Indy...but anyway, package him with something else and then I think you'd get takers. I see your point about being thin at WR but that's why we go heavy after a WR in FA this offseason. In the draft there's probably not gonna be a #1 where we pick..but that's ok we should be using the high picks on defense anyway.
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Gordon is a crap shoot for sure but you won't find a number free agent even close to his cap number next year. Add that to fact that Antonio Brown almost had as many receiving yards as our top 3 WRs combined.
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package a trade to the Cowboys Josh Gordon, Johnny Fuckstain, for Gavin Escobar and a 2nd or 3rd round pick.
package a trade to the Cowboys Josh Gordon, Johnny Fuckstain, for Gavin Escobar and a 2nd or 3rd round pick.
Manziel doesn't sweeten a trade he hinders it.
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Gordon is a crap shoot for sure but you won't find a number free agent even close to his cap number next year. Add that to fact that Antonio Brown almost had as many receiving yards as our top 3 WRs combined.
Gordon is a crap shoot for sure but you won't find a number free agent even close to his cap number next year. Add that to fact that Antonio Brown almost had as many receiving yards as our top 3 WRs combined.
That's true but remember your point about Cardale Jones. When the running back or running backs are running wild you don't need to throw very much. Case in point the success of the Browns the first 10 games.
I would expect the odds are against another drug bust. He's not expensive and does have talent. The worst that can happen is he sucks. The best?
WSS
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Gordon is a crap shoot for sure but you won't find a number free agent even close to his cap number next year. Add that to fact that Antonio Brown almost had as many receiving yards as our top 3 WRs combined.
That's true but remember your point about Cardale Jones. When the running back or running backs are running wild you don't need to throw very much. Case in point the success of the Browns the first 10 games.
I would expect the odds are against another drug bust. He's not expensive and does have talent. The worst that can happen is he sucks. The best?
WSS
That's true but remember your point about Cardale Jones. When the running back or running backs are running wild you don't need to throw very much. Case in point the success of the Browns the first 10 games.
I would expect the odds are against another drug bust. He's not expensive and does have talent. The worst that can happen is he sucks. The best?
WSS
Without an effective passing game I fear we'd get Jacksonville'd more often. I do agree though that an "effective" passing game when you run the ball really well is 13-20 150 1TD
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I think we should re-sign Hoyer. We desperately need continuity in the leadership role on the offensive side of the ball. With our OC being new...again...Hoyer is the best option. I see no reason to sign one of the other free agents that will be available as none of them are significantly better. With Hoyer we know he can win in the division, which is where turning things around starts. What do we gain by bringing in Sanchez? He will want paid to come to Cleveland like any other guy. Lets just pay the one we know.
I think too many people have given up too quick on Hoyer. I know he struggled down the stretch, but, IMO, that's not reason enough to start over again. He won some really good games for us. Admit it, we all had our chests puffed out when we throttled Pittspuke and the 'Nasty. His best games were against division opponents. How great would it be to go into next season knowing we have a shot to at least split the division games? Baby steps, folks. We're all so battle worn that we just want a quick fix, but I don't believe it will ever happen that way for us. We need stability first and Hoyer can provide that. Hoyer's struggles had as much to do with defenses figuring out Shanahan as they did with Hoyer. We also have to remember this was his first full season, and he was coming off a knee injury that normally takes two years to recover from. So he was basically a rookie as far as game experience, but with a veteran knowledge of the game. He's already been groomed by better than anything we've ever had in Tom Brady. I don't see how having him back sets us back at all. It's better than trusting lil Johnny to do the right thing, and better than starting over. Unless a team is willing to trade us their franchise QB, Hoyer is our best option.
I also think a lot of Hoyer's struggles were brought on by all the pressure of Johnny Football that weren't about the game itself. He was trying to maintain confidence with all the noise and a monkey hanging on his back.
Winston is a head case. This team cannot afford anymore head cases, especially at the most important position. I'm scared of Mariota. Good kid, but the toughness it takes to compete in the AFCN...just don't see it in him. Plus, he's another system guy. Draft a guy later in the draft. One that runs a more pro style offense and let Hoyer teach him the pro game until he's ready. Or if he comes out of the gate and outplays Hoyer...a la Russell Wilson, then by all means, start him right away.
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I think we should re-sign Hoyer. We desperately need continuity in the leadership role on the offensive side of the ball. With our OC being new...again...Hoyer is the best option. I see no reason to sign one of the other free agents that will be available as none of them are significantly better. With Hoyer we know he can win in the division, which is where turning things around starts. What do we gain by bringing in Sanchez? He will want paid to come to Cleveland like any other guy. Lets just pay the one we know.
I think too many people have given up too quick on Hoyer. I know he struggled down the stretch, but, IMO, that's not reason enough to start over again. He won some really good games for us. Admit it, we all had our chests puffed out when we throttled Pittspuke and the 'Nasty. His best games were against division opponents. How great would it be to go into next season knowing we have a shot to at least split the division games? Baby steps, folks. We're all so battle worn that we just want a quick fix, but I don't believe it will ever happen that way for us. We need stability first and Hoyer can provide that. Hoyer's struggles had as much to do with defenses figuring out Shanahan as they did with Hoyer. We also have to remember this was his first full season, and he was coming off a knee injury that normally takes two years to recover from. So he was basically a rookie as far as game experience, but with a veteran knowledge of the game. He's already been groomed by better than anything we've ever had in Tom Brady. I don't see how having him back sets us back at all. It's better than trusting lil Johnny to do the right thing, and better than starting over. Unless a team is willing to trade us their franchise QB, Hoyer is our best option.
I also think a lot of Hoyer's struggles were brought on by all the pressure of Johnny Football that weren't about the game itself. He was trying to maintain confidence with all the noise and a monkey hanging on his back.
Winston is a head case. This team cannot afford anymore head cases, especially at the most important position. I'm scared of Mariota. Good kid, but the toughness it takes to compete in the AFCN...just don't see it in him. Plus, he's another system guy. Draft a guy later in the draft. One that runs a more pro style offense and let Hoyer teach him the pro game until he's ready. Or if he comes out of the gate and outplays Hoyer...a la Russell Wilson, then by all means, start him right away.
I think we should re-sign Hoyer. We desperately need continuity in the leadership role on the offensive side of the ball. With our OC being new...again...Hoyer is the best option. I see no reason to sign one of the other free agents that will be available as none of them are significantly better. With Hoyer we know he can win in the division, which is where turning things around starts. What do we gain by bringing in Sanchez? He will want paid to come to Cleveland like any other guy. Lets just pay the one we know.
I think too many people have given up too quick on Hoyer. I know he struggled down the stretch, but, IMO, that's not reason enough to start over again. He won some really good games for us. Admit it, we all had our chests puffed out when we throttled Pittspuke and the 'Nasty. His best games were against division opponents. How great would it be to go into next season knowing we have a shot to at least split the division games? Baby steps, folks. We're all so battle worn that we just want a quick fix, but I don't believe it will ever happen that way for us. We need stability first and Hoyer can provide that. Hoyer's struggles had as much to do with defenses figuring out Shanahan as they did with Hoyer. We also have to remember this was his first full season, and he was coming off a knee injury that normally takes two years to recover from. So he was basically a rookie as far as game experience, but with a veteran knowledge of the game. He's already been groomed by better than anything we've ever had in Tom Brady. I don't see how having him back sets us back at all. It's better than trusting lil Johnny to do the right thing, and better than starting over. Unless a team is willing to trade us their franchise QB, Hoyer is our best option.
I also think a lot of Hoyer's struggles were brought on by all the pressure of Johnny Football that weren't about the game itself. He was trying to maintain confidence with all the noise and a monkey hanging on his back.
Winston is a head case. This team cannot afford anymore head cases, especially at the most important position. I'm scared of Mariota. Good kid, but the toughness it takes to compete in the AFCN...just don't see it in him. Plus, he's another system guy. Draft a guy later in the draft. One that runs a more pro style offense and let Hoyer teach him the pro game until he's ready. Or if he comes out of the gate and outplays Hoyer...a la Russell Wilson, then by all means, start him right away.
Agree although both Mariota and Winston could very well be good NFL quarterbacks the Browns just can't afford to take the chance. That old saying a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush applies. We know what we will be getting with Hoyer but with improvements they should get with the draft Hoyer may look even better with better players around him.
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VesnaKociper said:
Nobody has wasted more money and more high draft picks on the OL than the Browns.
Yea, like Trent Richardson, Brady Quinn, Braylon Edwards, Brandon Weeden, William Green, K2.
The definition of insanity is to keep doing what you are doing and expecting the same results. OL is NoT where the Browns need to spend their higher draft picks.
OK, true. DL and LB would be though.
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Manziel doesn't sweeten a trade he hinders it.
I don't know if he hinders it, but he doesn't add anything at this point.
We are going to have to ride the Johnny train this season and it either busts out or starts to show promise. And we should. We have a 3 game sample. That isn't enough. We also need to see if he is starting to take some of the advice to heart and he isn't tabloid material every month or so. Next weekend is a big week with the SuperBowl. I expect he will be seen. I don't expect him to hole up all off season. It's more the "where" and "when's" that will tell the tale. Is it at a nice restaurant with his party or is it at some nighclub at 2AM? Big difference. The guy needs to stay away from the clubs for a while as was shown a few weeks ago. The guy is a target. He may not be the cause of the trouble, but it seems trouble is going to seek him.
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Manziel doesn't sweeten a trade he hinders it.
I don't know if he hinders it, but he doesn't add anything at this point.
We are going to have to ride the Johnny train this season and it either busts out or starts to show promise. And we should. We have a 3 game sample. That isn't enough. We also need to see if he is starting to take some of the advice to heart and he isn't tabloid material every month or so. Next weekend is a big week with the SuperBowl. I expect he will be seen. I don't expect him to hole up all off season. It's more the "where" and "when's" that will tell the tale. Is it at a nice restaurant with his party or is it at some nighclub at 2AM? Big difference. The guy needs to stay away from the clubs for a while as was shown a few weeks ago. The guy is a target. He may not be the cause of the trouble, but it seems trouble is going to seek him.
I don't know if he hinders it, but he doesn't add anything at this point.
We are going to have to ride the Johnny train this season and it either busts out or starts to show promise. And we should. We have a 3 game sample. That isn't enough. We also need to see if he is starting to take some of the advice to heart and he isn't tabloid material every month or so. Next weekend is a big week with the SuperBowl. I expect he will be seen. I don't expect him to hole up all off season. It's more the "where" and "when's" that will tell the tale. Is it at a nice restaurant with his party or is it at some nighclub at 2AM? Big difference. The guy needs to stay away from the clubs for a while as was shown a few weeks ago. The guy is a target. He may not be the cause of the trouble, but it seems trouble is going to seek him.
I understand the optics, but that's about all they are. Maybe football professionals share the feelings of the great unwashed, maybe not. I just wonder if anyone could write a list of his transgressions that really mean anything and are not really TMZ style rumors and innuendo?
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
The problem with this past season was DL. I'm hoping NT Shelton from UW is our first pick.
Sure, draft a RT with the second first rounder because OL wasn't great after Mack left.. but really, that's weak point #4 at this point.
Weak points number 1, 2, and 3 on the Browns right now are every starting DL spot.
Desmond Bryant is average as a starter, Armonty Bryant flashed but might not be consistent, everyone else is a backup.
The Gordon show doesn't rate at all.
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I don't know if he hinders it, but he doesn't add anything at this point.
We are going to have to ride the Johnny train this season and it either busts out or starts to show promise. And we should. We have a 3 game sample. That isn't enough. We also need to see if he is starting to take some of the advice to heart and he isn't tabloid material every month or so. Next weekend is a big week with the SuperBowl. I expect he will be seen. I don't expect him to hole up all off season. It's more the "where" and "when's" that will tell the tale. Is it at a nice restaurant with his party or is it at some nighclub at 2AM? Big difference. The guy needs to stay away from the clubs for a while as was shown a few weeks ago. The guy is a target. He may not be the cause of the trouble, but it seems trouble is going to seek him.
I understand the optics, but that's about all they are. Maybe football professionals share the feelings of the great unwashed, maybe not. I just wonder if anyone could write a list of his transgressions that really mean anything and are not really TMZ style rumors and innuendo?
WSS
I understand the optics, but that's about all they are. Maybe football professionals share the feelings of the great unwashed, maybe not. I just wonder if anyone could write a list of his transgressions that really mean anything and are not really TMZ style rumors and innuendo?
WSS
I agree with you. However, it seems the Browns staff isn't happy, innuendo or not, so it is what it is.
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I don't know if he hinders it, but he doesn't add anything at this point.
We are going to have to ride the Johnny train this season and it either busts out or starts to show promise. And we should. We have a 3 game sample. That isn't enough. We also need to see if he is starting to take some of the advice to heart and he isn't tabloid material every month or so. Next weekend is a big week with the SuperBowl. I expect he will be seen. I don't expect him to hole up all off season. It's more the "where" and "when's" that will tell the tale. Is it at a nice restaurant with his party or is it at some nighclub at 2AM? Big difference. The guy needs to stay away from the clubs for a while as was shown a few weeks ago. The guy is a target. He may not be the cause of the trouble, but it seems trouble is going to seek him.
I understand the optics, but that's about all they are. Maybe football professionals share the feelings of the great unwashed, maybe not. I just wonder if anyone could write a list of his transgressions that really mean anything and are not really TMZ style rumors and innuendo?
WSS
I just wonder if anyone could write a list of his transgressions that really mean anything and are not really TMZ style rumors and innuendo?
WSS
Not really rumors or innuendo, as people aren't speculating about his activities....they are photographing and reporting them....(there is a difference)...
It's about whether you consider them transgressions or not, that is really the point.
To provide an opposing view next to that list of transgressions, lets see if anyone can make a list of positives he brought to the team in terms of professionalism, overall effort or actual play.....
Which list would be longer?.....positives? ....or negatives?
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In the past the Cowboys have been the poster child of flash before talent. Jerry finallygrew up and got a line for his team. The Browns should follow suit. With the emergence of the running game and the line missing a bit an ol should be our top pick. And keep Hoyer and not take another qb let it come to us instead of for forcing it. As the cowboy took to ball out of romo's hand. Do the same take the pressure off of Hoyer. Then get rid of the distractions Manziel and Gilbert keep skrinne and get some pass rushers free agent trade or in the draft. And the third thing is to trade gordon or get him a baby sitter. As well as get another wr opposite of his cooper or white. We have got to move past this dam dumb notion you have to have a top ten qb to win. The raven won it all with dilfer. Fix the lines get a wr that will catch the ball and things will correct them selves. The cards and Hawks did this and Wilson fell into there lap and the cards are right where the Hawks were two hours ago everything but the qb. And be honest with your selves is there anybody that is better the Hoyer at this point the Browns can get or draft and the answer is no. And if I was to project cardell jones will be the best qb to come out since luck and wilson
In the past the Cowboys have been the poster child of flash before talent. Jerry finallygrew up and got a line for his team. The Browns should follow suit. With the emergence of the running game and the line missing a bit an ol should be our top pick. And keep Hoyer and not take another qb let it come to us instead of for forcing it. As the cowboy took to ball out of romo's hand. Do the same take the pressure off of Hoyer. Then get rid of the distractions Manziel and Gilbert keep skrinne and get some pass rushers free agent trade or in the draft. And the third thing is to trade gordon or get him a baby sitter. As well as get another wr opposite of his cooper or white. We have got to move past this dam dumb notion you have to have a top ten qb to win. The raven won it all with dilfer. Fix the lines get a wr that will catch the ball and things will correct them selves. The cards and Hawks did this and Wilson fell into there lap and the cards are right where the Hawks were two hours ago everything but the qb. And be honest with your selves is there anybody that is better the Hoyer at this point the Browns can get or draft and the answer is no. And if I was to project cardell jones will be the best qb to come out since luck and wilson
Well said! I have been preaching this for a while. All the reaches for QB's have set them back. I got blasted a few years ago when I said stick with Anderson for another couple years and build in other areas first. Now how many swing and misses on QB's have there been since Anderson. Stick with Hoyer and don't let Johnny Beiber be a distraction. Get that WR and fix the line!
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I just wonder if anyone could write a list of his transgressions that really mean anything and are not really TMZ style rumors and innuendo?
WSS
Not really rumors or innuendo, as people aren't speculating about his activities....they are photographing and reporting them....(there is a difference)...
It's about whether you consider them transgressions or not, that is really the point.
To provide an opposing view next to that list of transgressions, lets see if anyone can make a list of positives he brought to the team in terms of professionalism, overall effort or actual play.....
Which list would be longer?.....positives? ....or negatives?
Wait, so the list of transgressions includes the fact that he's been photographed at night clubs, correct? And as I recall from the tweets the time frame has been somewhere between 130 and 3 o'clock. So that's it? That's your damning photographic evidence?Not really rumors or innuendo, as people aren't speculating about his activities....they are photographing and reporting them....(there is a difference)...
It's about whether you consider them transgressions or not, that is really the point.
To provide an opposing view next to that list of transgressions, lets see if anyone can make a list of positives he brought to the team in terms of professionalism, overall effort or actual play.....
Which list would be longer?.....positives? ....or negatives?
Uh okay?
Any arrest? DUI's? Any failed drug test? Any broken team or league rule? Anything of that sort? Ever miss a team meeting or miss a treatment? I'm waiting. So far we have the fact he's going out to night clubs and was late for a hamstring treatment.
WSS
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I just wonder if anyone could write a list of his transgressions that really mean anything and are not really TMZ style rumors and innuendo?
WSS
Not really rumors or innuendo, as people aren't speculating about his activities....they are photographing and reporting them....(there is a difference)...
It's about whether you consider them transgressions or not, that is really the point.
To provide an opposing view next to that list of transgressions, lets see if anyone can make a list of positives he brought to the team in terms of professionalism, overall effort or actual play.....
Which list would be longer?.....positives? ....or negatives?
Not really rumors or innuendo, as people aren't speculating about his activities....they are photographing and reporting them....(there is a difference)...
It's about whether you consider them transgressions or not, that is really the point.
To provide an opposing view next to that list of transgressions, lets see if anyone can make a list of positives he brought to the team in terms of professionalism, overall effort or actual play.....
Which list would be longer?.....positives? ....or negatives?
Please read again Steve....Im not arguing what he's done is right or wrong and aint going done THAT road for the millionth time.....Im just saying it's not rumor, its documented....... And my second point(now highlighted in red) simply states your point....which is....some dont think he's doing anything wrong....and some do.....
But it's a tired argument.....we've rehashed the "transgressions" over and over.....lets take a different perspective...
Wait, so the list of transgressions includes the fact that he's been photographed at night clubs, correct?
I think that would be on the list, yes. IF your making a list of transgressions and you consider this a transgression. Some do. You dont.
And as I recall from the tweets the time frame has been somewhere between 130 and 3 o'clock. So that's it? That's your damning photographic evidence? Not MY evidence. Please dont put words in my mouth, as I dont think I was damning anybody?, was I? I, like you, just asked for a list....
Uh okay?
Any arrest? DUI's? Any failed drug test? Any broken team or league rule? Anything of that sort? Ever miss a team meeting or miss a treatment? I'm waiting. So far we have the fact he's going out to night clubs and was late for a hamstring treatment.
I dont have a list and aint gonna debate all his little stories that make the news. The real issue is if his FO and coach think theres a problem
WSS
So, Im not taking a stand or attacking all the negative stuff here....but AM stepping up and asking for the positive. Any job or business has to weigh the good and the bad, right?....so lets make a "good list", instead of rehashing all the negatives...........you start!
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