Jonathan Paul Manziel
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Manziel has been given plenty of chances. He needs to go. I don't want other guys on the team busting their tail only to see JM not putting in the effort it takes to be an NFL qb. Hoyer may not be the long term answer but he is the answer for next season. When the Browns did well the first part of the season this year they had a decent run game going and Hoyer did well. The running game disappeared after Mack went out injured and the offense sputtered from that point on. You have to be able to run the ball or defenses will shut you down.
Manziel has been given plenty of chances. He needs to go. I don't want other guys on the team busting their tail only to see JM not putting in the effort it takes to be an NFL qb. Hoyer may not be the long term answer but he is the answer for next season. When the Browns did well the first part of the season this year they had a decent run game going and Hoyer did well. The running game disappeared after Mack went out injured and the offense sputtered from that point on. You have to be able to run the ball or defenses will shut you down.
Bingo. Terrible influence, especially to the rookies coming in. Plus it creates a bad atmosphere of resentment. Teammates will be pissed at him.
I'd love to just have him cut right now. But I think we're gonna be stuck for at least another year.
Imo he is a waste of time, a cancer, and isn't worth anymore investment.
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I honestly would trade him to a team that has the time and a current
qb with the reins, that can take the time to get Johnny Broadway Flop
to grow up and straighten up.
The Browns don't have time. Include JF in a trade, if anyone would bother..?
Shaw and Hoyer may have limitations to their game, but JF currently has zero
upside going for him. As in, the perceived possible good is dramatically outweighed
by the actual bad.
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I honestly would trade him to a team that has the time and a current
qb with the reins, that can take the time to get Johnny Broadway Flop
to grow up and straighten up.
The Browns don't have time. Include JF in a trade, if anyone would bother..?
Shaw and Hoyer may have limitations to their game, but JF currently has zero
upside going for him. As in, the perceived possible good is dramatically outweighed
by the actual bad.
I honestly would trade him to a team that has the time and a current
qb with the reins, that can take the time to get Johnny Broadway Flop
to grow up and straighten up.
The Browns don't have time. Include JF in a trade, if anyone would bother..?
Shaw and Hoyer may have limitations to their game, but JF currently has zero
upside going for him. As in, the perceived possible good is dramatically outweighed
by the actual bad.
The problem would be finding any team that would be willing to trade anything for him.
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I could be wrong, but I feel like all these media statements about the QB may not be in the building etc are to keep lighting a fire under Manziel's ass. Don't get me wrong, I'm 200% for what they are saying here. This may just be my eternal optimism, but maybe Manziel got kicked in the pants enough to realize it's time to get serious. I do honestly think he's got the talent to be an NFL QB, but not with the attitude he's got now. Who knows for sure though but I am damn glad they aren't coddling him anymore.
Another way to look at it is exactly what was said-he's got a very narrow window before his fame will be absolutely gone if he doesn't change things. Winston will be the media boy come draft day and if he sucks it up next year no one will care anymore.
I could be wrong, but I feel like all these media statements about the QB may not be in the building etc are to keep lighting a fire under Manziel's ass. Don't get me wrong, I'm 200% for what they are saying here. This may just be my eternal optimism, but maybe Manziel got kicked in the pants enough to realize it's time to get serious. I do honestly think he's got the talent to be an NFL QB, but not with the attitude he's got now. Who knows for sure though but I am damn glad they aren't coddling him anymore.
Another way to look at it is exactly what was said-he's got a very narrow window before his fame will be absolutely gone if he doesn't change things. Winston will be the media boy come draft day and if he sucks it up next year no one will care anymore.
I agree about his talent & glad the Browns are taking a hard line with him. I am no trained Professional, so I'll not "diagnose" him as many have done. I trust Farmer, et al, to get the whole story & whatever they do...keep him, trade him, cut him...They'll make the decision but a big part will be what Johnny puts into it. Too bad that last season's offensive staff apparently didn't track his progress or lack of it. Had they done that, we would know more now than we do.
Let's just see what happens.
Mike
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From what we have seen on and off the field, he has about a 90% of being a bust.
I hope I'm wrong, and he turns into Drew Brees. I just don't see it EVER happening
From what we have seen on and off the field, he has about a 90% of being a bust.
I hope I'm wrong, and he turns into Drew Brees. I just don't see it EVER happening
I knew he was a bust before he was ever drafted.
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Yep...well I feel like just this week the Browns are starting to separate themselves or publicly sending johnny a message....or both....
Flippo......."we dont even know if our QB is on the team"
Farmer...."we will leave no stone unturned......1st IS an option...."Talk is cheap"....etc
Pettine...."muddy at best"...
and now, all of a sudden, team mates and "inside sources" talking details about Johnny.....hmmmm...
...and now, all of a sudden, team mates and "inside sources" talking details about Johnny.....hmmmm...
The reports of teammates not playing for him are the most serious and should carry the most impact. Hopefully some are on record and reaching out to/ getting in JM's ear (if not face).
how about looking into the front office,seems no one knows about talent evaluation . no one was doing their homework when they drafted Johnny Fuckstain.
Talent is not the question here. It's work ethic and/or maturity.
Mud it was a huge roll of the dice on JFF- the FO thought they could control the circus- they were wrong. Well JFF, go show us you really want to be an NFL quarterback.
Not sure about "the Circus", but the FO definitely thought they could get through to the Ringmaster.
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http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/01/former_cleveland_browns_gm_phi_1.html
shit can this if it's a repeat.
WSS
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http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/01/former_cleveland_browns_gm_phi_1.html
shit can this if it's a repeat.
WSS
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/01/former_cleveland_browns_gm_phi_1.html
So Phil Savage thinks JM would apply himself and learn a pro Spread offense?
Phil needs to stick to organizing Senior Bowls and FA combines.
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http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/01/former_cleveland_browns_gm_phi_1.html
So Phil Savage thinks JM would apply himself and learn a pro Spread offense?
Phil needs to stick to organizing Senior Bowls and FA combines.
So Phil Savage thinks JM would apply himself and learn a pro Spread offense?
Phil needs to stick to organizing Senior Bowls and FA combines.
And leave the football talk to home security installers, realtors, screen print artists, farmers and saloon singers.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
And leave the football talk to home security installers, realtors, screen print artists and saloon singers.
WSS
nicely done squire!
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And leave the football talk to home security installers, realtors, screen print artists, farmers and saloon singers.
Precisely!
... but don't forget retired, High-school "ballers"..."When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I think if you read between the lines of what Farmer, Haslam , Pettine and now Flip are saying Manziel is as good as gone.
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Let's get something straight: the only person who truely knows if he has a drug or alcohol problem is Johnny Foosball himself. I laugh at everyone trying to cast labels
around as if that is going to make sense of the situation.
I know first hand what it is to be a alcoholic/addict. From those experiences I can tell you that manziel certainly exhibits many of the same behaviors I did while I was out there getting it in. But the only one that truely knows is Johnny.
Unfortunately, if he truely is a alcoholic and/or an addict, it's almost a certainty he will not stop until he reaches absolute rock bottom. Everything will burn, every bridge will be smashed, before he finally admits what he is. I know it took my reaching the deepest depths of despair within the living hell I had created before I finally got the help I needed. It's sad because, like most addicts, at heart he is probably a great person with a high IQ and potential.
Our greatest hope is that he is simply a young kid going through a stage of hard drinking and idiotic decisions. That is something one can quickly recover from. Alcoholism and addiction on the other hand is another animal.
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but there's no real evidence of him being a 'hard' drinker. going out to vegas and drinking champagne and swimming on a swan float is hardly evidence of that. like you said it's just idiotic 20 year oldish behavior.
hard drinking is falling asleep at a bar or waking up on a bench clinging to a bottle of swill.
i didn't like drafting him and don't think he'll be much, if anything in the nfl but to say he's riding around on a lawnmower with a bottle of jack in his hands is a stretch.
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but there's no real evidence of him being a 'hard' drinker. going out to vegas and drinking champagne and swimming on a swan float is hardly evidence of that. like you said it's just idiotic 20 year oldish behavior.
hard drinking is falling asleep at a bar or waking up on a bench clinging to a bottle of swill.
i didn't like drafting him and don't think he'll be much, if anything in the nfl but to say he's riding around on a lawnmower with a bottle of jack in his hands is a stretch.
but there's no real evidence of him being a 'hard' drinker. going out to vegas and drinking champagne and swimming on a swan float is hardly evidence of that. like you said it's just idiotic 20 year oldish behavior.
hard drinking is falling asleep at a bar or waking up on a bench clinging to a bottle of swill.
i didn't like drafting him and don't think he'll be much, if anything in the nfl but to say he's riding around on a lawnmower with a bottle of jack in his hands is a stretch.
There are many abusive relationships with alcohol that are not the classic "alcoholism" you describe - but they can be equally damaging to a person's career if they don't get it under control and avoid drinking.
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Let's get something straight: the only person who truely knows if he has a drug or alcohol problem is Johnny Foosball himself. I laugh at everyone trying to cast labels
around as if that is going to make sense of the situation.
I know first hand what it is to be a alcoholic/addict. From those experiences I can tell you that manziel certainly exhibits many of the same behaviors I did while I was out there getting it in. But the only one that truely knows is Johnny.
Unfortunately, if he truely is a alcoholic and/or an addict, it's almost a certainty he will not stop until he reaches absolute rock bottom. Everything will burn, every bridge will be smashed, before he finally admits what he is. I know it took my reaching the deepest depths of despair within the living hell I had created before I finally got the help I needed. It's sad because, like most addicts, at heart he is probably a great person with a high IQ and potential.
Our greatest hope is that he is simply a young kid going through a stage of hard drinking and idiotic decisions. That is something one can quickly recover from. Alcoholism and addiction on the other hand is another animal.
GuNNerGatSKy said:
Let's get something straight: the only person who truely knows if he has a drug or alcohol problem is Johnny Foosball himself. I laugh at everyone trying to cast labels
around as if that is going to make sense of the situation.
I know first hand what it is to be a alcoholic/addict. From those experiences I can tell you that manziel certainly exhibits many of the same behaviors I did while I was out there getting it in. But the only one that truely knows is Johnny.
Unfortunately, if he truely is a alcoholic and/or an addict, it's almost a certainty he will not stop until he reaches absolute rock bottom. Everything will burn, every bridge will be smashed, before he finally admits what he is. I know it took my reaching the deepest depths of despair within the living hell I had created before I finally got the help I needed. It's sad because, like most addicts, at heart he is probably a great person with a high IQ and potential.
Our greatest hope is that he is simply a young kid going through a stage of hard drinking and idiotic decisions. That is something one can quickly recover from. Alcoholism and addiction on the other hand is another animal.
Courageous & accurate post sir.
I applaud you!
Mike
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Let's get something straight: the only person who truely knows if he has a drug or alcohol problem is Johnny Foosball himself. I laugh at everyone trying to cast labels
around as if that is going to make sense of the situation.
I know first hand what it is to be a alcoholic/addict. From those experiences I can tell you that manziel certainly exhibits many of the same behaviors I did while I was out there getting it in. But the only one that truely knows is Johnny.
Unfortunately, if he truely is a alcoholic and/or an addict, it's almost a certainty he will not stop until he reaches absolute rock bottom. Everything will burn, every bridge will be smashed, before he finally admits what he is. I know it took my reaching the deepest depths of despair within the living hell I had created before I finally got the help I needed. It's sad because, like most addicts, at heart he is probably a great person with a high IQ and potential.
Our greatest hope is that he is simply a young kid going through a stage of hard drinking and idiotic decisions. That is something one can quickly recover from. Alcoholism and addiction on the other hand is another animal.
Congrats and 26 years clean here. I'll go so far as to agree he knows whether he is or not. Let's be clear though if it walks , acts like and hangs with ducks it's probably a duck. He definitely has the feathers and quacks going.GuNNerGatSKy said:
Let's get something straight: the only person who truely knows if he has a drug or alcohol problem is Johnny Foosball himself. I laugh at everyone trying to cast labels
around as if that is going to make sense of the situation.
I know first hand what it is to be a alcoholic/addict. From those experiences I can tell you that manziel certainly exhibits many of the same behaviors I did while I was out there getting it in. But the only one that truely knows is Johnny.
Unfortunately, if he truely is a alcoholic and/or an addict, it's almost a certainty he will not stop until he reaches absolute rock bottom. Everything will burn, every bridge will be smashed, before he finally admits what he is. I know it took my reaching the deepest depths of despair within the living hell I had created before I finally got the help I needed. It's sad because, like most addicts, at heart he is probably a great person with a high IQ and potential.
Our greatest hope is that he is simply a young kid going through a stage of hard drinking and idiotic decisions. That is something one can quickly recover from. Alcoholism and addiction on the other hand is another animal.
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Yep...well I feel like just this week the Browns are starting to separate themselves or publicly sending johnny a message....or both....
Flippo......."we dont even know if our QB is on the team"
Farmer...."we will leave no stone unturned......1st IS an option...."Talk is cheap"....etc
Pettine...."muddy at best"...
and now, all of a sudden, team mates and "inside sources" talking details about Johnny.....hmmmm...
Yep...well I feel like just this week the Browns are starting to separate themselves or publicly sending johnny a message....or both....
Flippo......."we dont even know if our QB is on the team"
Farmer...."we will leave no stone unturned......1st IS an option...."Talk is cheap"....etc
Pettine...."muddy at best"...
and now, all of a sudden, team mates and "inside sources" talking details about Johnny.....hmmmm...
They're not pretty either.
GuNNerGatSKy said:
Let's get something straight: the only person who truely knows if he has a drug or alcohol problem is Johnny Foosball himself. I laugh at everyone trying to cast labels
around as if that is going to make sense of the situation.
I know first hand what it is to be a alcoholic/addict. From those experiences I can tell you that manziel certainly exhibits many of the same behaviors I did while I was out there getting it in. But the only one that truely knows is Johnny.
Unfortunately, if he truely is a alcoholic and/or an addict, it's almost a certainty he will not stop until he reaches absolute rock bottom. Everything will burn, every bridge will be smashed, before he finally admits what he is. I know it took my reaching the deepest depths of despair within the living hell I had created before I finally got the help I needed. It's sad because, like most addicts, at heart he is probably a great person with a high IQ and potential.
Our greatest hope is that he is simply a young kid going through a stage of hard drinking and idiotic decisions. That is something one can quickly recover from. Alcoholism and addiction on the other hand is another animal.
Then you well know the stages of "denial". As one of the drug counselors I know has on his blackboard in letters a foot high YET. I can quit anytime I want to. Guy obviously is at least a problem drinker- if it affects your job- it's a problem. Having team security show up at your place in the morning and find you still hung over is a BIG problem.
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What Hoorta said. I have not used the label "alcoholic" intentionally. I have made it clear from over 30 years in the counseling business that I have always shied away from using that unproductive term. However, if someone is continually getting problems in their life because of drinking, then they have a drinking problem that needs to be addressed. JF's total surprise that he would screw up within less than a week from his commitment to change is a clear indication that something is terribly wrong. I hope he remembers that surprise next time he goes out after hours and has a repeat performance. That might be the wakeup call that tells him to seek a professional opinion and quit relying on "friends" that enable him to stay off track from what he really wants, a career as an NFL QB.
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