How good Is Hoyer?

OldBrownsFan

@andruw-u said:
Conditions have been perfect for Hoyer going 10-6 vs. 1-15 with anyone else?

I liked Hoyer when I saw him come in and win games when nobody else was getting the job done. I'm hoping he will be reasonable on a contract and we resign him.

The Cysko Kid

Short answer: not very good but the best shot we have unless we commit to fail for cardale

OldBrownsFan

I don't know how you can lose drafting Cardale. If he doesn't work out as QB, defensive end would work next.

Andruw u

@oldbrownsfan said:
I liked Hoyer when I saw him come in and win games when nobody else was getting the job done. I'm hoping he will be reasonable on a contract and we resign him.

Instead of "perfect" I like to think "we can win with Hoyer if there are enough right ideas around him" with all other facets of the team and within a game. If there's a better FA or a trade that can be made, go for it, but at this point, bringing Hoyer back is the best "bridge" - and like it or not, the bridge could be all the way to Sept. 2017 - and "best chance to win the next game."

The most optimistic way of looking at JFF and JFF vs. Hoyer/Shaw/whomever is he's entering his rookie year again. He flunked last year and is having to repeat the grade level.

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@oldbrownsfan said:
Anderson may have been our best but even with him he didn't go somewhere else and start. We just haven't found the right QB since 99.

Except that he did?

He went to Arizona and started for two years.

Then he went to Carolina the same year they drafted Cam.

gftChris

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

Except that he did?

He went to Arizona and started for two years.

Then he went to Carolina the same year they drafted Cam.

1 year.

OldBrownsFan

I was wrong he did start some with the Cardinals but bottom line he was no success story:

On March 17, 2010, Anderson signed a two-year deal worth $7.25 million with the Arizona Cardinals.^[6] After Kurt Warner retired and Matt Leinart was released, Anderson became the starting quarterback for the Cardinals. After struggling in his first few games, Anderson was benched in favor of rookie Max Hall on October 6. Anderson was named the starting quarterback again for the November 7 game against the Minnesota Vikings after Hall struggled.^[7] However in week 14 he was benched again after suffering a concussion and was replaced with Hall, whose season ended with a separated shoulder later in the game. Rookie John Skelton finished the game and succeeded Anderson as the Cardinals' starting quarterback. Anderson also created a notable soundbite after being caught on national TV laughing with teammate Deuce Lutui while he and his team were playing poorly. His subsequent anger toward the reporter who asked why he was laughing made national news and was featured on several sports shows.^[8]

Anderson was released by the Cardinals on July 28, 2011.

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@gftchris said:
1 year.

Eesh, seemed like two.

OldBrownsFan

@andruw-u said:

Instead of "perfect" I like to think "we can win with Hoyer if there are enough right ideas around him" with all other facets of the team and within a game. If there's a better FA or a trade that can be made, go for it, but at this point, bringing Hoyer back is the best "bridge" - and like it or not, the bridge could be all the way to Sept. 2017 - and "best chance to win the next game."

The most optimistic way of looking at JFF and JFF vs. Hoyer/Shaw/whomever is he's entering his rookie year again. He flunked last year and is having to repeat the grade level.

That is how I see it too. I just have seen nothing from JM he will make it. If we could get a decent trade for him I would be all for it.

gernthefish

A lot of great QBs have never won a superbowl. Also, there have been lots of mediocre QBs that have taken their teams to a super bowl. A few examples:

Rex Grossman

Jake Delhomme

Rich Gannon

Brad Johnson

Kerry Collins

Trent Dilfer

Steve McNair

Chris Chandler

Drew Bledsoe

Neil O'Donnell

Stan Humphries

Jeff Hostetler

Mark Rypien

Conclusion - Although it helps to have a Peyton Manning, it's not all about the QB. He has do his job and have a supporting cast.

Mudfly

@gernthefish said:

A lot of great QBs have never won a superbowl. Also, there have been lots of mediocre QBs that have taken their teams to a super bowl. A few examples:

Rex Grossman

Jake Delhomme

Rich Gannon

Brad Johnson

Kerry Collins

Trent Dilfer

Steve McNair

Chris Chandler

Drew Bledsoe

Neil O'Donnell

Stan Humphries

Jeff Hostetler

Mark Rypien

Conclusion - Although it helps to have a Peyton Manning, it's not all about the QB. He has do his job and have a supporting cast.

and I count 12 more ....making it about 25 journeyman/average QB's to play in Superbowl......actually more than 1/2 that have played(in my book) are fairly avg

Tour2ma

@nggator60 said:

Now, if folks are campaigning for Hoyer because they simply feel as if the alternatives will never amount to anything better then I'd understand it to an extent but to suggest that Brian Hoyer will suddenly secrete some sort of new skill level at the age of 30 that four NFL teams have been unable to unearth?

My personal opinion is that we all can reasonably project what the Browns ceiling is with Brian Hoyer at the helm and this projection falls substantially short of a Super Bowl, which is the ultimate goal.

Thankfully we can rattle off past examples of young quarterbacks that also faltered early and/or refused their professional responsibilities only to eventually develop into quality starting quarterbacks.

I'd prefer that the organization fail in taking a chance of developing a champion to committing to a future that realistically has a ceiling lower than that of which we'd like.

A cluster of very, very familiar themes stated in very familiar words...

Secrete? No... sustain. If you want to pretend that his early performance was the outlier and accept the latter "in a vacuum", have at it.

The goal is the playoffs. Once there, once you are in the hunt, then anything is possible. The top seeds held serve this year, but that is not the norm.

Please rattle away on that list of young QBs "we all know" that faltered by refusing to accept their professional responsibilities before succeeding. A half-dozen will do...

I'd prefer that any prospect prove his worth by actually preforming in Camp. If that happens then Hoyer's presence matters not.

@jrb12711 said:
You can win with guys like that in conditions are perfect but when have the Browns ever had that?

1964? More recently 1986?

@andruw-u said:

Instead of "perfect" I like to think "we can win with Hoyer if there are enough right ideas around him" with all other facets of the team and within a game. If there's a better FA or a trade that can be made, go for it, but at this point, bringing Hoyer back is the best "bridge" - and like it or not, the bridge could be all the way to Sept. 2017 - and "best chance to win the next game."

The most optimistic way of looking at JFF and JFF vs. Hoyer/Shaw/whomever is he's entering his rookie year again. He flunked last year and is having to repeat the grade level.

Excepting scenarios that involve trades, I agree, this is the best path I can see.

andeftw

If the team can fill its weaknesses at receiver and in the front seven, there's nothing keeping the Browns from the playoffs even with Hoyer at quarterback. This team has a good core, lots of draft picks and plenty of cap space. As much as I would like Manziel to turn out to be a franchise caliber QB, the Browns would be smart to stick with Hoyer until they can find the right guy under center.

Build a strong team around the QB and once you find the guy, you'll be playing football in late January. Even with a mediocre QB at best, like Hoyer, you'll be fighting year in and year out to make the postseason if you have a solid defense and a solid running game.

browns52

@oldbrownsfan said:

I have enjoyed posting here. I consider myself a good Browns fan but some of you guys could be working for the Browns. Within minutes of the hiring of Defilippo you were talking about it. I asked some friends (huge Browns fans) days after the hiring what they thought about the new OC and they said "what happened to the other guy? " lol

I like Hoyer. I have seen him do things with the Browns I haven't seen for a while with other Browns quarterbacks such as bringing the team back from a deficit. He had a pretty good record until the last half of the season. My concern is he will go to another team and do well and we will lose out. I am for over paying to keep him. I see him at least being a bridge until we find the right quarterback. I read things like Hoyer spending hours on a Saturday night going over the play book with Gordon and I like his work ethic.

I am hoping we can sign him as a FA. I don't see any veteran qb I would prefer over him.

if he doesn't leave, i will have no respect for him...after what these jackass's did by throwing him under the bus by benching him while we still had a shot...long shot at best but still a shot.at making the playoffs.for a frigging dweeeb who didn't know one single play in the playbook...i know i'd go tell the fo morons to go pound sand...and yes, i hope he does go to a real football team and succeed...i know i'll be rooting for him...i like hoyer...thought he was the best qb i have seen with this team since 99..he has alot of potential given a good team built around him.....

Chicopee John

@mudfly said:
and I count 12 more ....making it about 25 journeyman/average QB's to play in Superbowl......actually more than 1/2 that have played(in my book) are fairly avg

Quite a mixture of mediocre QBs with some you terribly underrate IMHO

Rich Gannon and Drew Bledsoe, as examples, were very good QBs

Better than Kosar ever was, as an example.

OldBrownsFan

@mudfly said:
and I count 12 more ....making it about 25 journeyman/average QB's to play in Superbowl......actually more than 1/2 that have played(in my book) are fairly avg

That is exactly where I was going at with my question about Hoyer. Somebody else posted that in recent history it has been the teams with the elite quarterbacks winning the super bowl so I thought maybe Hoyer wouldn't be the qb to take the Browns to the SB. But like Tour posted and I agree with once a team makes the play offs anything can happen. My gut feeling tells me with improvements on the Browns offense Hoyer can get this team into the playoffs and once in the playoffs they could make a run at going to the SB. Even if Hoyer is an average QB with a good O line, running game and receivers an average qb who is smart and Hoyer is smart can go elevate his game into being an above average QB. Hoping he returns next season.

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@gernthefish said:

Rex Grossman - lost Super Bowl

Jake Delhomme- lost Super Bowl

Rich Gannon - lost Super Bowl

Brad Johnson - won by default because he was playing Gannon

Kerry Collins - lost Super Bowl

Trent Dilfer - won

Steve McNair - lost Super Bowl

Chris Chandler - lost Super Bowl

Drew Bledsoe - lost Super Bowl

Neil O'Donnell - lost Super Bowl

Stan Humphries - lost Super Bowl

Jeff Hostetler - won because of a shitty field goal attempt

Mark Rypien - won

Conclusion - Although it helps to have a Peyton Manning, it's not all about the QB. He has do his job and have a supporting cast.

Only 4 of those 12 ever won a Super Bowl, one of which by default.

Those guys still lost to the likes of John Elway and Brett Favre. So, yeah, you can get there with a "mediocre" QB if everything falls into place...but it's tough to win.

NGgator60

@tour2ma said:

Please rattle away on that list of young QBs "we all know" that faltered by refusing to accept their professional responsibilities before succeeding. A half-dozen will do...

Sure, I'll play....

Off the top of my head:

Brett Favre- Drank himself out of Atlanta

Ben Roethlisberger- He may have sexually assaulted more women than passes completed in SB XL. Talented motorcyclist as well

Joe Namath- Broadway Joe gave Walt Clyde a serious run for drinks, drugs, and women as King of NYC

Kerry Collins- Rehabilitated racist and alcoholic that led the Giants to a SB

Jay Cutler- Popular figure on the Denver social scene until shipped off to Chicago

Mike Vick- Alpha of the NFL's first family of scumbag quarterbacks

Jake Plummer- Party boy that almost drove himself out of the NFL before finding success with the Cards and Donkeys

Dan Marino- If it werent for his penchant for nose powder the Jets may have actually drafted Dan rather than Ken O'brien

Duante Culpepper- Great deep ball but just dont let him borrow your yacht

Kyle Orton- Drink Like A Champion

I'd imagine that we'd gladly sign up for having a quarterback on our roster that plays out their career with similar success to any of the aforementioned with the possible exception of Orton and Plummer. What do I win?

NGgator60

Let's take a look at the teams that have won the Superbowl since the turn of the millenium....

Rams- Kurt

Ravens- Dilfer, Flacco

Patriots- Tom

Bucs- Gannon

Colts- Manning

Steelers- Roethlisberger

Giants- Manning

Saints- Brees

Packers- Rodgers

Seahawks- Wilson

Which of these franchises had anything less than a clear upper-echelon QB? In fact, the list reads like a "who's who" of the top quarterbacks that have presided over offenses for 15 years.

Hell, it took a near-historic season from Rich Gannon along with a defense littered with HOFers for Gruden to bring a championship to Tampa. The only outlier remains, of course, with Baltimore and Trent Dilfer. Well, when the Browns field a roster with enough HOFers or borderline HOFers to qualify for group rates through Starwood then we can talk about Hoyer leading the organization to a championship.

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@nggator60 said:

Sure, I'll play....

Off the top of my head:

Brett Favre- Drank himself out of Atlanta

Ben Roethlisberger- He may have sexually assaulted more women than passes completed in SB XL. Talented motorcyclist as well

Joe Namath- Broadway Joe gave Walt Clyde a serious run for drinks, drugs, and women as King of NYC

Kerry Collins- Rehabilitated racist and alcoholic that led the Giants to a SB

Jay Cutler- Popular figure on the Denver social scene until shipped off to Chicago

Mike Vick- Alpha of the NFL's first family of scumbag quarterbacks

Jake Plummer- Party boy that almost drove himself out of the NFL before finding success with the Cards and Donkeys

Dan Marino- If it werent for his penchant for nose powder the Jets may have actually drafted Dan rather than Ken O'brien

Duante Culpepper- Great deep ball but just dont let him borrow your yacht

Kyle Orton- Drink Like A Champion

I'd imagine that we'd gladly sign up for having a quarterback on our roster that plays out their career with similar success to any of the aforementioned with the possible exception of Orton and Plummer. What do I win?

Favre didn't drink himself out of Atlanta. Check your facts.

Roethlisberger has never lost starting time nor struggled because of off the field problems.

Kerry Collins is atop the list for "worst quarterbacks to play in a Super Bowl" along with Grossman and Dilfer. Never really a franchise guy, his erratic play led to him being more of a journeyman than franchise player.

Why is Kyle Orton even on this list?