What receiver do we go after in draft/FA?
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I'm well aware of the philosophy, however the modern WyCo involves play calling nomenclature that's easy to pick up when receivers are tagged. Especially in offenses that are up tempo or no huddle. If you wanted receivers to be tagged outside of a designated number/route tree, that's when a longer play call comes into the picture.
And if I'm wrong in what I'm stating with route depths and such, then why does your second quote say "short, high percentage passes"...? That would kind of prove my point, would it not?
edit: Again, the evolution of the WyCo is that its flexible on run or pass. You can see as mentioned, the modern installment when run sets up pass. Especially for teams that don't have elite receiver talent and need to get their players in more one on one situations.
I see what you're saying, and I get that there are common names and designations that have been carried over from coach to coach.
You're not wrong about route depths and such. That is what I'm saying. The WCO is the philosophy behind the plays being run, not the play names themselves. Concepts, timing, etc, those are right on.
Brown Right Deuce Jet Flanker Drive can be the same as Horton Belly 361, just depends on the coach.
You were more correct than I gave you credit for, I just saw language and kind of stopped reading.
That's completely wrong. The "common myth" that you're claiming my description is happens to be closer to the truth than what you described. The West Coast Offense isn't a playcalling system. There is no official "WCO" play calling nomenclature. It is a philosophy of using short to intermediate passes as a supplement and, in some cases, replacement to the running game in order to keep the defense honest.
What you're describing (nomenclature, etc) is the misappropriation of the term, started by our own Bernie Kosar, when WCO was erroneously used to describe the Air Coryell offense.
The Air Coryell offense is a subset of the West Coast Offense. The Air Raid Offense is a subset of the West Coast Offense. But the West Coast Offense in and of itself is a philosophy...not an actual offensive playbook.
The whole "WCO uses long playcall strings" simply stems from the fact that Walsh himself like long playcall strings and that he had a West Coast philosophy. Paul Brown, who invented the WCO, had varying play call strings that changed from year to year.
Yet it's not called the "Ohio River Offense"...
Too bad... has a nice ring to it.I know the seeds were sewn in Cinci under Brown, but by all accounts I know his assistant, Bill Walsh was the architect who was restrained by Brown. Not until Walsh took it to SF was the offense fully unleashed and the WCO born.
But, yes... high-percentage passing to supplement the run is to my mind a great, capsule summary of the WCO.
On the other hand... I did not know about Bernie mislabeling "Air Coryell" as WCO.
Yep. When he played with Dallas, if I'm not mistaken.
I see what you're saying, and I get that there are common names and designations that have been carried over from coach to coach.
You're not wrong about route depths and such. That is what I'm saying. The WCO is the philosophy behind the plays being run, not the play names themselves. Concepts, timing, etc, those are right on.
Brown Right Deuce Jet Flanker Drive can be the same as Horton Belly 361, just depends on the coach.
You were more correct than I gave you credit for, I just saw language and kind of stopped reading.
Yep. When he played with Dallas, if I'm not mistaken.
I have a feeling we're saying a lot of the same things, just minor confusion on how we convey them between one another. Carry on, sir.
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Jaelen Strong
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We pick at 12= WR White or Danny Shelton. We pick at 19= WR Funchess or WR Coats. We pass on(Peat, Clemmings, Flowers, Collins, Erving and Cann on OL. We pick at 43= WR Green-Beckem, J. Strong, N. Agholor, Devin Smith and T. Lippett. We pass on D. Perryman and many other needs. We pick at 77 and there is the STEAL Tyler Lockett WR and we pass on Trey Depriest ILB, Laken Tominson OG, Corey Robinson OT and WR Ty Montgomery. AND YES I KNOW IT'S STILL EARLY
Browns & Buffett: Got to go fishin, Down to rock bottom again, with just a few Friends -
Watched Texas vs OU last night while attempting to sleep. Still want Malcolm Brown. He was destructive or drew a double team on damn near every play. I also think it allows this team a little head room should we think of swapping picks with Philly in case they feel threatened of losing a top OLB prospect such as Fowler. It's only one spot, we get another mid round pick.
I'm surprised nobody is mentioning Striker out of OU. He's undersized for the position but I think he'd be a hell of a situational pass rusher for a mid round pick. Good burst, natural ability to dip his hips and fluid in space.
In response to Gumby. No to Funchess and no to Coates in the 1st round. Honestly, no to Funchess, period. His hands have cost him from time to time. Sorry, I still have memories of Braylon fresh. I'd have no issue with Devin or Lockett at 43, if possible.
Shelton checked in at the senior bowl with added weight. This is the time you want to be in peak condition for scouts. I just see the kid as an injury risk and someone that will show up to mini camp overweight. Massive NG/T with 15-20 weight fluctuations? No thanks.
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Right their with you on both WR's at pick 19, Too many good OL to pass up at 19. The slot to get a good WR is at 43 our 1st 2nd round pick. But do you pass on Perryman and other needs?? I go with yea, due to we have no featured WR at this time and still need C. Shorts to come home.
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.. or not have a true #1.
What has been said that gives any indication Farmer values WRs high enough to spend a 1?
What about last season indicated that a #1 was important to our offense?
Step 1: Resign Austin
Step 2: Sign Shorts
Step 3: see what value falls to us in the draft.
.. or not have a true #1.
What has been said that gives any indication Farmer values WRs high enough to spend a 1?
What about last season indicated that a #1 was important to our offense?
Step 1: Resign Austin
Step 2: Sign Shorts
Step 3: see what value falls to us in the draft.
A good #1 will stretch the field. The Browns did this successfully with Cameron at the TE position but due to the lack of speed/position on the line, it takes a bit longer for that to develop so protection needs to hold longer.
Austin is ok as is Shorts, neither a difference maker. The draft at 19 if you get the guy wouldn't be terrible.
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Watched Texas vs OU last night while attempting to sleep. Still want Malcolm Brown. He was destructive or drew a double team on damn near every play. I also think it allows this team a little head room should we think of swapping picks with Philly in case they feel threatened of losing a top OLB prospect such as Fowler. It's only one spot, we get another mid round pick.
I'm surprised nobody is mentioning Striker out of OU. He's undersized for the position but I think he'd be a hell of a situational pass rusher for a mid round pick. Good burst, natural ability to dip his hips and fluid in space.
In response to Gumby. No to Funchess and no to Coates in the 1st round. Honestly, no to Funchess, period. His hands have cost him from time to time. Sorry, I still have memories of Braylon fresh. I'd have no issue with Devin or Lockett at 43, if possible.
Shelton checked in at the senior bowl with added weight. This is the time you want to be in peak condition for scouts. I just see the kid as an injury risk and someone that will show up to mini camp overweight. Massive NG/T with 15-20 weight fluctuations? No thanks.
Watched Texas vs OU last night while attempting to sleep. Still want Malcolm Brown. He was destructive or drew a double team on damn near every play. I also think it allows this team a little head room should we think of swapping picks with Philly in case they feel threatened of losing a top OLB prospect such as Fowler. It's only one spot, we get another mid round pick.
I'm surprised nobody is mentioning Striker out of OU. He's undersized for the position but I think he'd be a hell of a situational pass rusher for a mid round pick. Good burst, natural ability to dip his hips and fluid in space.
In response to Gumby. No to Funchess and no to Coates in the 1st round. Honestly, no to Funchess, period. His hands have cost him from time to time. Sorry, I still have memories of Braylon fresh. I'd have no issue with Devin or Lockett at 43, if possible.
Shelton checked in at the senior bowl with added weight. This is the time you want to be in peak condition for scouts. I just see the kid as an injury risk and someone that will show up to mini camp overweight. Massive NG/T with 15-20 weight fluctuations? No thanks.
I've been an OU fan since the mid 80s, Striker is coming back for his senior season.
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Lockett from KSt will be the wr steal in this draft. Watch how he comes along with whomever gets him. I hope it's us around Rd 3-4. He was the heart of that team this year.
Lockett from KSt will be the wr steal in this draft. Watch how he comes along with whomever gets him. I hope it's us around Rd 3-4. He was the heart of that team this year.
Great call my friend. He might not be the biggest guy in the world but he's quick and versatile.
Have watched as much of him as I can the past two years and have not been disappointed.
My only concern is some overlap with Hawkins but that's a problem I'd gladly deal with.
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Lockett from KSt will be the wr steal in this draft. Watch how he comes along with whomever gets him. I hope it's us around Rd 3-4. He was the heart of that team this year.
Great call my friend. He might not be the biggest guy in the world but he's quick and versatile.
Have watched as much of him as I can the past two years and have not been disappointed.
My only concern is some overlap with Hawkins but that's a problem I'd gladly deal with.
Great call my friend. He might not be the biggest guy in the world but he's quick and versatile.
Have watched as much of him as I can the past two years and have not been disappointed.
My only concern is some overlap with Hawkins but that's a problem I'd gladly deal with.
Lockett = chocolate Jordy Nelson?
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Watched Texas vs OU last night while attempting to sleep. Still want Malcolm Brown. He was destructive or drew a double team on damn near every play. I also think it allows this team a little head room should we think of swapping picks with Philly in case they feel threatened of losing a top OLB prospect such as Fowler. It's only one spot, we get another mid round pick.
I'm surprised nobody is mentioning Striker out of OU. He's undersized for the position but I think he'd be a hell of a situational pass rusher for a mid round pick. Good burst, natural ability to dip his hips and fluid in space.
In response to Gumby. No to Funchess and no to Coates in the 1st round. Honestly, no to Funchess, period. His hands have cost him from time to time. Sorry, I still have memories of Braylon fresh. I'd have no issue with Devin or Lockett at 43, if possible.
Shelton checked in at the senior bowl with added weight. This is the time you want to be in peak condition for scouts. I just see the kid as an injury risk and someone that will show up to mini camp overweight. Massive NG/T with 15-20 weight fluctuations? No thanks.
Shelton checked in at the senior bowl with added weight. This is the time you want to be in peak condition for scouts. I just see the kid as an injury risk and someone that will show up to mini camp overweight. Massive NG/T with 15-20 weight fluctuations? No thanks.
I do like the fact that Shelton showed. Also does not hurt that he dominated practice to such a degree that he brought comparisons to Donald's performance last year.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Shelton checked in at the senior bowl with added weight. This is the time you want to be in peak condition for scouts. I just see the kid as an injury risk and someone that will show up to mini camp overweight. Massive NG/T with 15-20 weight fluctuations? No thanks.
I do like the fact that Shelton showed. Also does not hurt that he dominated practice to such a degree that he brought comparisons to Donald's performance last year.
I do like the fact that Shelton showed. Also does not hurt that he dominated practice to such a degree that he brought comparisons to Donald's performance last year.
This is true, it says a lot for a kid whom accepted the invite to play in yet another game that may risk injury. Especially given that before the Senior Bowl he was a 1st round lock.
I knew Donald would be a good one, I just had no idea how good, how fast. That kid has unbelievable burst for a person his size.
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Free Agent options: Cecil Shorts, Jeremy Maclin, Michael Crabtree, Torrey Smith, Randall Cobb, Michael Crabtree, Denarious Thomas,
Draft options: Amari Cooper, Devante Parker, Kevin White, Sammy Coates, Justin Hardy, Jaelen Strong, Devin Smith, Ty Montgomery, Nelson Algalor, Rashad Greene...
Who do you want?
Cobb would be a nice addition to any team. GB has had a decent history of resigning the guys they really want. See Jordy Nelson last year.
The Packers also appear to have a culture where distractions are not tolerated and players tend to conform to expectations of a professional athlete.
They are also used to cold weather football.
If available, I like the Browns to get him. If this happens, however, it doesn't mean that WR stops being a priority. Still a priority but not so much of an emergency.
Cobb would be a nice addition to any team. GB has had a decent history of resigning the guys they really want. See Jordy Nelson last year.
The Packers also appear to have a culture where distractions are not tolerated and players tend to conform to expectations of a professional athlete.
They are also used to cold weather football.
If available, I like the Browns to get him. If this happens, however, it doesn't mean that WR stops being a priority. Still a priority but not so much of an emergency.
I don't see the Packers letting him go. Not sure what drives him as a player, is it maximizing his earning potential?
The Packers signed Jordy Nelson to a 9.75 M/year contract last year, so they won't go above that for Cobb. Is getting more than 10 million a year so important to him that he's willing to leave arguably the best offense in the league for a team with no quarterback? That's the only way he'll be leaving Green Bay in my opinion.
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Great call my friend. He might not be the biggest guy in the world but he's quick and versatile.
Have watched as much of him as I can the past two years and have not been disappointed.
My only concern is some overlap with Hawkins but that's a problem I'd gladly deal with.
Lockett = chocolate Jordy Nelson?
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Lockett would be a steal if he is still there for our 4th pick. I suspect we got DL, OL and ILB first.
Another I'd take is Crowder out a Duke-very underrated but had equal value to his team-clutch on 3rd downs. Be a good late rounder.
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Many mysteries here. Cameron injury history is scary. I want Austin back & go after a young (28 & under) vet WR. There are a number in FA. To me, the biggest issue is not money, but who will sign here?
In the draft, many rookies don't immediately contribute heavily due to route running & learning the offense, so I would look at big guys with good hands who might help in the red zone & on 3rd down jump balls while they are learning.
Mike
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@douche-nozzle said:
All they need to complete the package is a bearded lady, Siamese twins, and a giant to stand next to little Johnny for contrast
And you to follow behind the parade with a shovel with which to clean up the elephant shit.
WSS
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We pick at 12= WR White or Danny Shelton. We pick at 19= WR Funchess or WR Coats. We pass on(Peat, Clemmings, Flowers, Collins, Erving and Cann on OL. We pick at 43= WR Green-Beckem, J. Strong, N. Agholor, Devin Smith and T. Lippett. We pass on D. Perryman and many other needs. We pick at 77 and there is the STEAL Tyler Lockett WR and we pass on Trey Depriest ILB, Laken Tominson OG, Corey Robinson OT and WR Ty Montgomery. AND YES I KNOW IT'S STILL EARLY
We pick at 12= WR White or Danny Shelton. We pick at 19= WR Funchess or WR Coats. We pass on(Peat, Clemmings, Flowers, Collins, Erving and Cann on OL. We pick at 43= WR Green-Beckem, J. Strong, N. Agholor, Devin Smith and T. Lippett. We pass on D. Perryman and many other needs. We pick at 77 and there is the STEAL Tyler Lockett WR and we pass on Trey Depriest ILB, Laken Tominson OG, Corey Robinson OT and WR Ty Montgomery. AND YES I KNOW IT'S STILL EARLY
Nice. Some Funchess love
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With the 23rd pick in the 2015 NFL Draft, the Cleveland Browns select... Devin Funchess, Wide Receiver, Michigan - 8/2/14
Why would you have them taking him 23rd, when they pick 12 and 19?
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