So what does Cleveland do about Gordon?
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The real question is what could we have gotten for him two years ago.
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The real question is what could we have gotten for him two years ago.
The real question is what could we have gotten for him two years ago.
While I understand what you are saying the reality is the answer to that doesn't matter. Holding him and hoping for the best was low risk really at the cost vs what we could have gotten anyway.
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I just would to see the Browns get something out of him. Maybe down the road our best trading partner the Colts will be ready to make a deal? I do see some other team wanting him because of his talent. Even if we don't keep him we should get what we can.
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The CBA may dictate what the Browns can do and when. If it was my decision, I'd cut him as soon as I could. It sends the wrong message to other players if someone screws up and still stays around. He is welcome to go hang with Ray Rice and Legarrette Blount for all I care. Many talented players have wasted more chances than most of us will ever have. Somewhere there is a hungry, good receiver who would use that roster spot and not eff up.
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Zombo said:
Makes absolutely no sense to cut him.
He won't be a distraction because he won't be on the roster and he won't be around the team.
When he comes back he has two years left on his contract.
This is an issue for training camp 2016. Nothing to do with him now..
Cut him now, he signs with another team next year and we get nothing for him ... why?
Zombo
In some ways, Zombo, we look at this the same way.
Gordon is nothing more than an NFL slab of meat.
I say cut the slab of meat because, as an employer, I want to make a clean cut.
You say a slab of meat because you'd just as soon let him 'hang around' for a year and, then, make a decision.
Different sides of the same coin.
PS This will sound cruel but I really don't care about Josh Gordon other than his ability to catch passes and score TDs for the Browns. Many on this board who buy into the 'poor old Josh - good kid who makes bad decisions - care only because he is a Brown.
Like those who laughed when the likes of Mike Webster, etc. suffered downfalls of life, treated him like another slab of meat, albeit one wearing Black and Yellow.
This slab of meat just happens to be wearing Brown and Orange.
PS Gordon has never - to my knowledge - been accused of any crime of violence and that, IMHO, tells me he isn't the worse person in the world. I just wouldn't want him as an employee.
In some ways, Zombo, we look at this the same way.
Gordon is nothing more than an NFL slab of meat.
I say cut the slab of meat because, as an employer, I want to make a clean cut.
You say a slab of meat because you'd just as soon let him 'hang around' for a year and, then, make a decision.
Different sides of the same coin.
PS This will sound cruel but I really don't care about Josh Gordon other than his ability to catch passes and score TDs for the Browns. Many on this board who buy into the 'poor old Josh - good kid who makes bad decisions - care only because he is a Brown.
Like those who laughed when the likes of Mike Webster, etc. suffered downfalls of life, treated him like another slab of meat, albeit one wearing Black and Yellow.
This slab of meat just happens to be wearing Brown and Orange.
PS Gordon has never - to my knowledge - been accused of any crime of violence and that, IMHO, tells me he isn't the worse person in the world. I just wouldn't want him as an employee.
It's just bad business to cut him now, plain and simple.
If he makes it through the suspension then he has some value ... whether it is as a player or a trade piece.
If he doesn't make it through the suspension, and get suspended for life, or whatever the next step is ... Oh well. We don't pay him while he is on suspension, he is not part of the team, he is not on the roster.
It's just bad business to cut him now. Your feelings, or lack of feelings, about him don't matter.
Zombo
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In some ways, Zombo, we look at this the same way.
Gordon is nothing more than an NFL slab of meat.
I say cut the slab of meat because, as an employer, I want to make a clean cut.
You say a slab of meat because you'd just as soon let him 'hang around' for a year and, then, make a decision.
Different sides of the same coin.
PS This will sound cruel but I really don't care about Josh Gordon other than his ability to catch passes and score TDs for the Browns. Many on this board who buy into the 'poor old Josh - good kid who makes bad decisions - care only because he is a Brown.
Like those who laughed when the likes of Mike Webster, etc. suffered downfalls of life, treated him like another slab of meat, albeit one wearing Black and Yellow.
This slab of meat just happens to be wearing Brown and Orange.
PS Gordon has never - to my knowledge - been accused of any crime of violence and that, IMHO, tells me he isn't the worse person in the world. I just wouldn't want him as an employee.
It's just bad business to cut him now, plain and simple.
If he makes it through the suspension then he has some value ... whether it is as a player or a trade piece.
If he doesn't make it through the suspension, and get suspended for life, or whatever the next step is ... Oh well. We don't pay him while he is on suspension, he is not part of the team, he is not on the roster.
It's just bad business to cut him now. Your feelings, or lack of feelings, about him don't matter.
Zombo
Zombo said:
It's just bad business to cut him now. Your feelings, or lack of feelings, about him don't matter.
Fair points, Zombo.
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In some ways, Zombo, we look at this the same way.
Gordon is nothing more than an NFL slab of meat.
I say cut the slab of meat because, as an employer, I want to make a clean cut.
You say a slab of meat because you'd just as soon let him 'hang around' for a year and, then, make a decision.
Different sides of the same coin.
PS This will sound cruel but I really don't care about Josh Gordon other than his ability to catch passes and score TDs for the Browns. Many on this board who buy into the 'poor old Josh - good kid who makes bad decisions - care only because he is a Brown.
Like those who laughed when the likes of Mike Webster, etc. suffered downfalls of life, treated him like another slab of meat, albeit one wearing Black and Yellow.
This slab of meat just happens to be wearing Brown and Orange.
PS Gordon has never - to my knowledge - been accused of any crime of violence and that, IMHO, tells me he isn't the worse person in the world. I just wouldn't want him as an employee.
It's just bad business to cut him now, plain and simple.
If he makes it through the suspension then he has some value ... whether it is as a player or a trade piece.
If he doesn't make it through the suspension, and get suspended for life, or whatever the next step is ... Oh well. We don't pay him while he is on suspension, he is not part of the team, he is not on the roster.
It's just bad business to cut him now. Your feelings, or lack of feelings, about him don't matter.
Zombo
Zombo said:
It's just bad business to cut him now, plain and simple.
If he makes it through the suspension then he has some value ... whether it is as a player or a trade piece.
If he doesn't make it through the suspension, and get suspended for life, or whatever the next step is ... Oh well. We don't pay him while he is on suspension, he is not part of the team, he is not on the roster.
It's just bad business to cut him now. Your feelings, or lack of feelings, about him don't matter.
Zombo
I don't see what value he has? You do understand he isn't just suspended, he is banished essentially. He has continually broken the rules, while it's unlikely; he could be left out longer than a year. Even if he comes back what value does he have? No team will chance anything more then a 6 or 7 at best for a guy who is 1 incident from a lifetime ban.
He could have an amazing year and he would still be worthless to most teams. He would need to have like 4 years clean, and playing at a high level before he has any real value.
I hate the idea of cutting a talented player, but some people just will not learn until they have their livelyhood taken away. You cannot continue to let him make the organization look bad. If you do, it invites not only Gordon to continue breaking the rules, but also shows his teamates that they can get away with it as well. That kind of attitude can permeate a locker room and cause some real issues. Some team mates will hate him, and others will act like him.
I just don't think it's worth it.
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I would do nothing. See what happens with the suspension and his contract / cap hit , if anything. If he gets reinstated and us serious about playing, then he can work towards a roster spot and playing time. So do nothing about Gordon but everything for planning the team to go forward and be competitive without Gordon.
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This is a no brainer, you keep him. His value might be greatly diminished but he still has value.
Best case: he gets his shit straight, comes back and produces, creates more value or both. The players see that the FO actually cares about them and are willing to work with them. Win-win.
Worst case: he keeps fucking up and can only play for us. If he wants redemption, it has to be for us. The players see that the FO isn't going to fuck around and they need to keep their noses clean. We lose out on the talent but send a strong message to the players that the FO will ruin your career if you fuck with them.
The only message you send by cutting him is that the FO has no spine and will grant you the opportunity to continue your career elsewhere if you cause enough trouble.
Would you give away a 1964 1/2 Mustang because it had a couple dents in it?
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I would get rid of any car that is unreliable and is hardly ever in running condition.
:neutral_face: -
I would get rid of any car that is unreliable and is hardly ever in running condition.
I would get rid of any car that is unreliable and is hardly ever in running condition.
So are you spoiled, stupid or just merely allow your emotions to govern how you act, or more aptly, react?
I don't give shit away for free. No person who understands the concept of value does. It's called capitalism and it's kind of a big deal around these parts.
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Zombo said:
It's just bad business to cut him now, plain and simple.
If he makes it through the suspension then he has some value ... whether it is as a player or a trade piece.
If he doesn't make it through the suspension, and get suspended for life, or whatever the next step is ... Oh well. We don't pay him while he is on suspension, he is not part of the team, he is not on the roster.
It's just bad business to cut him now. Your feelings, or lack of feelings, about him don't matter.
Zombo
I don't see what value he has? You do understand he isn't just suspended, he is banished essentially. He has continually broken the rules, while it's unlikely; he could be left out longer than a year. Even if he comes back what value does he have? No team will chance anything more then a 6 or 7 at best for a guy who is 1 incident from a lifetime ban.
He could have an amazing year and he would still be worthless to most teams. He would need to have like 4 years clean, and playing at a high level before he has any real value.
I hate the idea of cutting a talented player, but some people just will not learn until they have their livelyhood taken away. You cannot continue to let him make the organization look bad. If you do, it invites not only Gordon to continue breaking the rules, but also shows his teamates that they can get away with it as well. That kind of attitude can permeate a locker room and cause some real issues. Some team mates will hate him, and others will act like him.
I just don't think it's worth it.
cbbacker said:
I don't see what value he has? You do understand he isn't just suspended, he is banished essentially. He has continually broken the rules, while it's unlikely; he could be left out longer than a year. Even if he comes back what value does he have? No team will chance anything more then a 6 or 7 at best for a guy who is 1 incident from a lifetime ban.
He could have an amazing year and he would still be worthless to most teams. He would need to have like 4 years clean, and playing at a high level before he has any real value.
I hate the idea of cutting a talented player, but some people just will not learn until they have their livelyhood taken away. You cannot continue to let him make the organization look bad. If you do, it invites not only Gordon to continue breaking the rules, but also shows his teamates that they can get away with it as well. That kind of attitude can permeate a locker room and cause some real issues. Some team mates will hate him, and others will act like him.
I just don't think it's worth it.
I agree with you except that I believe a team WILL take a chance with him & I would wish him well. For the Browns, I don't think it's worth it to keep him. Not only does he make bad decisions, he plays without PRIDE. If he played with pride, he would play hard EVERY down & he clearly does not. He put himself under the microscope & has to live with being highly scrutinized. Sorry Josh, but YOU live with the consequences of your actions. Playing in the NFL is a privilege to be earned, not a right based on talent alone. Cutting him makes a strong & positive statement to those Browns' players who have worked their butts off to earn the privilege to be here, especially a few who have overcome previous off field issues. If he had HALF their pride & work ethic, he wouldn't be where he is now. Let another team babysit him. The Browns have supported him long enough. Also keep in mind that we won FOUR games in his ONE productive season & were more successful with him OFF the field than ON it in 2014. Could he come back to hurt us?..Possibly, but we don't know that. What we DO know is that he has & is hurting the Browns now as they are working to reverse a negative culture. Josh Gordon lacks the pride real winners have. Real winners don't blame their past for their shortcomings, they forge ahead to positive growth.
The Browns & their Fans deserve better.
Mike
INÂ DORSEY I TRUST -
cbbacker said:
I don't see what value he has? You do understand he isn't just suspended, he is banished essentially. He has continually broken the rules, while it's unlikely; he could be left out longer than a year. Even if he comes back what value does he have? No team will chance anything more then a 6 or 7 at best for a guy who is 1 incident from a lifetime ban.
He could have an amazing year and he would still be worthless to most teams. He would need to have like 4 years clean, and playing at a high level before he has any real value.
I hate the idea of cutting a talented player, but some people just will not learn until they have their livelyhood taken away. You cannot continue to let him make the organization look bad. If you do, it invites not only Gordon to continue breaking the rules, but also shows his teamates that they can get away with it as well. That kind of attitude can permeate a locker room and cause some real issues. Some team mates will hate him, and others will act like him.
I just don't think it's worth it.
I agree with you except that I believe a team WILL take a chance with him & I would wish him well. For the Browns, I don't think it's worth it to keep him. Not only does he make bad decisions, he plays without PRIDE. If he played with pride, he would play hard EVERY down & he clearly does not. He put himself under the microscope & has to live with being highly scrutinized. Sorry Josh, but YOU live with the consequences of your actions. Playing in the NFL is a privilege to be earned, not a right based on talent alone. Cutting him makes a strong & positive statement to those Browns' players who have worked their butts off to earn the privilege to be here, especially a few who have overcome previous off field issues. If he had HALF their pride & work ethic, he wouldn't be where he is now. Let another team babysit him. The Browns have supported him long enough. Also keep in mind that we won FOUR games in his ONE productive season & were more successful with him OFF the field than ON it in 2014. Could he come back to hurt us?..Possibly, but we don't know that. What we DO know is that he has & is hurting the Browns now as they are working to reverse a negative culture. Josh Gordon lacks the pride real winners have. Real winners don't blame their past for their shortcomings, they forge ahead to positive growth.
The Browns & their Fans deserve better.
Mike
I agree with you except that I believe a team WILL take a chance with him & I would wish him well. For the Browns, I don't think it's worth it to keep him. Not only does he make bad decisions, he plays without PRIDE. If he played with pride, he would play hard EVERY down & he clearly does not. He put himself under the microscope & has to live with being highly scrutinized. Sorry Josh, but YOU live with the consequences of your actions. Playing in the NFL is a privilege to be earned, not a right based on talent alone. Cutting him makes a strong & positive statement to those Browns' players who have worked their butts off to earn the privilege to be here, especially a few who have overcome previous off field issues. If he had HALF their pride & work ethic, he wouldn't be where he is now. Let another team babysit him. The Browns have supported him long enough. Also keep in mind that we won FOUR games in his ONE productive season & were more successful with him OFF the field than ON it in 2014. Could he come back to hurt us?..Possibly, but we don't know that. What we DO know is that he has & is hurting the Browns now as they are working to reverse a negative culture. Josh Gordon lacks the pride real winners have. Real winners don't blame their past for their shortcomings, they forge ahead to positive growth.
The Browns & their Fans deserve better.
Mike
Excellent post Mike. I agree but if we can get something for a trade for Gordon later I would at least like to get something. I don't want to see him back as a Brown. We have given him plenty of chances already. He has talent and even with his issues there will be another team who will want him and let them pay us for him instead of giving him away. I hope he can turn things around but even in his well written letter he seemed to try and justify his bad choices. He needs to see that and only blame himself for the bad decisions he has made.
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I feel like a lot of the people of this board don't know what it is like to grow up without a father. I personally don't know what it's like, but I imagine that you lack the discipline you would otherwise have if you did have a father. Personally, I know that I was always frightened by disappointing my father. Your mother is always there to coddle you, but your father is there to turn you into a man that will force you to own up to your own personal responsibilities. Not really defending Josh (he's a dumbass from my perspective), but you gotta walk a mile in his shoes before you scream "CUT HIM".
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I feel like a lot of the people of this board don't know what it is like to grow up without a father. I personally don't know what it's like, but I imagine that you lack the discipline you would otherwise have if you did have a father. Personally, I know that I was always frightened by disappointing my father. Your mother is always there to coddle you, but your father is there to turn you into a man that will force you to own up to your own personal responsibilities. Not really defending Josh (he's a dumbass from my perspective), but you gotta walk a mile in his shoes before you scream "CUT HIM".
I feel like a lot of the people of this board don't know what it is like to grow up without a father. I personally don't know what it's like, but I imagine that you lack the discipline you would otherwise have if you did have a father. Personally, I know that I was always frightened by disappointing my father. Your mother is always there to coddle you, but your father is there to turn you into a man that will force you to own up to your own personal responsibilities. Not really defending Josh (he's a dumbass from my perspective), but you gotta walk a mile in his shoes before you scream "CUT HIM".
The older wiser veterans need to mentor some of these players. The last person Gordon needed to be hanging around with was Johnny Manziel.
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I feel like a lot of the people of this board don't know what it is like to grow up without a father. I personally don't know what it's like, but I imagine that you lack the discipline you would otherwise have if you did have a father. Personally, I know that I was always frightened by disappointing my father. Your mother is always there to coddle you, but your father is there to turn you into a man that will force you to own up to your own personal responsibilities. Not really defending Josh (he's a dumbass from my perspective), but you gotta walk a mile in his shoes before you scream "CUT HIM".
The older wiser veterans need to mentor some of these players. The last person Gordon needed to be hanging around with was Johnny Manziel.
The older wiser veterans need to mentor some of these players. The last person Gordon needed to be hanging around with was Johnny Manziel.
Completely agree. Like Andrew Hawkins or Miles Austin (just from his position). Johnny is a dumbass in my own personal opinion. From what I understand Gordon (when he drank the alcohol that will get him suspended this time on the plane) was with several of his fellow Browns players. You would think one of the group would be like "hey Josh you can't drink that", but nobody tried to help him.
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The older wiser veterans need to mentor some of these players. The last person Gordon needed to be hanging around with was Johnny Manziel.
Completely agree. Like Andrew Hawkins or Miles Austin (just from his position). Johnny is a dumbass in my own personal opinion. From what I understand Gordon (when he drank the alcohol that will get him suspended this time on the plane) was with several of his fellow Browns players. You would think one of the group would be like "hey Josh you can't drink that", but nobody tried to help him.
You would think one of the group would be like "hey Josh you can't drink that", but nobody tried to help him.
I would like to see this team get a little smarter about things like this. It should have not have happened. Someone needed to have a talk to Gordon about the consequences and tried to help him. Bottom line is Gordon himself knew he could get that call at any time to report for a drug test within 4 hours. That thought should have been front and center at all times whenever he got tempted to drink and sad some of the Browns players became enablers for him to mess up yet again.
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Well if all the other Browns players are enablers shouldn't they be getting as much scrutiny as him? I completely concur the rest of the team needs to get smarter, but I feel like Josh shouldn't be singled out.
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cbbacker said:
I don't see what value he has? You do understand he isn't just suspended, he is banished essentially. He has continually broken the rules, while it's unlikely; he could be left out longer than a year. Even if he comes back what value does he have? No team will chance anything more then a 6 or 7 at best for a guy who is 1 incident from a lifetime ban.
He could have an amazing year and he would still be worthless to most teams. He would need to have like 4 years clean, and playing at a high level before he has any real value.
I hate the idea of cutting a talented player, but some people just will not learn until they have their livelyhood taken away. You cannot continue to let him make the organization look bad. If you do, it invites not only Gordon to continue breaking the rules, but also shows his teamates that they can get away with it as well. That kind of attitude can permeate a locker room and cause some real issues. Some team mates will hate him, and others will act like him.
I just don't think it's worth it.
I agree with you except that I believe a team WILL take a chance with him & I would wish him well. For the Browns, I don't think it's worth it to keep him. Not only does he make bad decisions, he plays without PRIDE. If he played with pride, he would play hard EVERY down & he clearly does not. He put himself under the microscope & has to live with being highly scrutinized. Sorry Josh, but YOU live with the consequences of your actions. Playing in the NFL is a privilege to be earned, not a right based on talent alone. Cutting him makes a strong & positive statement to those Browns' players who have worked their butts off to earn the privilege to be here, especially a few who have overcome previous off field issues. If he had HALF their pride & work ethic, he wouldn't be where he is now. Let another team babysit him. The Browns have supported him long enough. Also keep in mind that we won FOUR games in his ONE productive season & were more successful with him OFF the field than ON it in 2014. Could he come back to hurt us?..Possibly, but we don't know that. What we DO know is that he has & is hurting the Browns now as they are working to reverse a negative culture. Josh Gordon lacks the pride real winners have. Real winners don't blame their past for their shortcomings, they forge ahead to positive growth.
The Browns & their Fans deserve better.
Mike
I agree with you except that I believe a team WILL take a chance with him & I would wish him well. For the Browns, I don't think it's worth it to keep him. Not only does he make bad decisions, he plays without PRIDE. If he played with pride, he would play hard EVERY down & he clearly does not. He put himself under the microscope & has to live with being highly scrutinized. Sorry Josh, but YOU live with the consequences of your actions. Playing in the NFL is a privilege to be earned, not a right based on talent alone. Cutting him makes a strong & positive statement to those Browns' players who have worked their butts off to earn the privilege to be here, especially a few who have overcome previous off field issues. If he had HALF their pride & work ethic, he wouldn't be where he is now. Let another team babysit him. The Browns have supported him long enough. Also keep in mind that we won FOUR games in his ONE productive season & were more successful with him OFF the field than ON it in 2014. Could he come back to hurt us?..Possibly, but we don't know that. What we DO know is that he has & is hurting the Browns now as they are working to reverse a negative culture. Josh Gordon lacks the pride real winners have. Real winners don't blame their past for their shortcomings, they forge ahead to positive growth.
The Browns & their Fans deserve better.
Mike
Well said Mike. I agree Gordon has run out of strikes- at least with the Browns. If he goes on to have a HOF career with another team- it's a chance we're going to have to take.
If you are really looking for a villain you'll find one anywhere. This has basically become a witch hunt... get a grip.
Sorry PG- Josh by his previous actions- invited the witches into his house. Only he can drive them away- and a start would be to finally wise up. I don't know how much more of a wake up call it would be to piss away around $10 million- those were some mighty expensive drinks.
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