So what does Cleveland do about Gordon?
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This is a no brainer, you keep him. His value might be greatly diminished but he still has value.
Best case: he gets his shit straight, comes back and produces, creates more value or both. The players see that the FO actually cares about them and are willing to work with them. Win-win.
Worst case: he keeps fucking up and can only play for us. If he wants redemption, it has to be for us. The players see that the FO isn't going to fuck around and they need to keep their noses clean. We lose out on the talent but send a strong message to the players that the FO will ruin your career if you fuck with them.
The only message you send by cutting him is that the FO has no spine and will grant you the opportunity to continue your career elsewhere if you cause enough trouble.
Would you give away a 1964 1/2 Mustang because it had a couple dents in it?
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I would get rid of any car that is unreliable and is hardly ever in running condition.
:neutral_face: -
I would get rid of any car that is unreliable and is hardly ever in running condition.
I would get rid of any car that is unreliable and is hardly ever in running condition.
So are you spoiled, stupid or just merely allow your emotions to govern how you act, or more aptly, react?
I don't give shit away for free. No person who understands the concept of value does. It's called capitalism and it's kind of a big deal around these parts.
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Zombo said:
It's just bad business to cut him now, plain and simple.
If he makes it through the suspension then he has some value ... whether it is as a player or a trade piece.
If he doesn't make it through the suspension, and get suspended for life, or whatever the next step is ... Oh well. We don't pay him while he is on suspension, he is not part of the team, he is not on the roster.
It's just bad business to cut him now. Your feelings, or lack of feelings, about him don't matter.
Zombo
I don't see what value he has? You do understand he isn't just suspended, he is banished essentially. He has continually broken the rules, while it's unlikely; he could be left out longer than a year. Even if he comes back what value does he have? No team will chance anything more then a 6 or 7 at best for a guy who is 1 incident from a lifetime ban.
He could have an amazing year and he would still be worthless to most teams. He would need to have like 4 years clean, and playing at a high level before he has any real value.
I hate the idea of cutting a talented player, but some people just will not learn until they have their livelyhood taken away. You cannot continue to let him make the organization look bad. If you do, it invites not only Gordon to continue breaking the rules, but also shows his teamates that they can get away with it as well. That kind of attitude can permeate a locker room and cause some real issues. Some team mates will hate him, and others will act like him.
I just don't think it's worth it.
cbbacker said:
I don't see what value he has? You do understand he isn't just suspended, he is banished essentially. He has continually broken the rules, while it's unlikely; he could be left out longer than a year. Even if he comes back what value does he have? No team will chance anything more then a 6 or 7 at best for a guy who is 1 incident from a lifetime ban.
He could have an amazing year and he would still be worthless to most teams. He would need to have like 4 years clean, and playing at a high level before he has any real value.
I hate the idea of cutting a talented player, but some people just will not learn until they have their livelyhood taken away. You cannot continue to let him make the organization look bad. If you do, it invites not only Gordon to continue breaking the rules, but also shows his teamates that they can get away with it as well. That kind of attitude can permeate a locker room and cause some real issues. Some team mates will hate him, and others will act like him.
I just don't think it's worth it.
I agree with you except that I believe a team WILL take a chance with him & I would wish him well. For the Browns, I don't think it's worth it to keep him. Not only does he make bad decisions, he plays without PRIDE. If he played with pride, he would play hard EVERY down & he clearly does not. He put himself under the microscope & has to live with being highly scrutinized. Sorry Josh, but YOU live with the consequences of your actions. Playing in the NFL is a privilege to be earned, not a right based on talent alone. Cutting him makes a strong & positive statement to those Browns' players who have worked their butts off to earn the privilege to be here, especially a few who have overcome previous off field issues. If he had HALF their pride & work ethic, he wouldn't be where he is now. Let another team babysit him. The Browns have supported him long enough. Also keep in mind that we won FOUR games in his ONE productive season & were more successful with him OFF the field than ON it in 2014. Could he come back to hurt us?..Possibly, but we don't know that. What we DO know is that he has & is hurting the Browns now as they are working to reverse a negative culture. Josh Gordon lacks the pride real winners have. Real winners don't blame their past for their shortcomings, they forge ahead to positive growth.
The Browns & their Fans deserve better.
Mike
IN DORSEY I TRUST -
cbbacker said:
I don't see what value he has? You do understand he isn't just suspended, he is banished essentially. He has continually broken the rules, while it's unlikely; he could be left out longer than a year. Even if he comes back what value does he have? No team will chance anything more then a 6 or 7 at best for a guy who is 1 incident from a lifetime ban.
He could have an amazing year and he would still be worthless to most teams. He would need to have like 4 years clean, and playing at a high level before he has any real value.
I hate the idea of cutting a talented player, but some people just will not learn until they have their livelyhood taken away. You cannot continue to let him make the organization look bad. If you do, it invites not only Gordon to continue breaking the rules, but also shows his teamates that they can get away with it as well. That kind of attitude can permeate a locker room and cause some real issues. Some team mates will hate him, and others will act like him.
I just don't think it's worth it.
I agree with you except that I believe a team WILL take a chance with him & I would wish him well. For the Browns, I don't think it's worth it to keep him. Not only does he make bad decisions, he plays without PRIDE. If he played with pride, he would play hard EVERY down & he clearly does not. He put himself under the microscope & has to live with being highly scrutinized. Sorry Josh, but YOU live with the consequences of your actions. Playing in the NFL is a privilege to be earned, not a right based on talent alone. Cutting him makes a strong & positive statement to those Browns' players who have worked their butts off to earn the privilege to be here, especially a few who have overcome previous off field issues. If he had HALF their pride & work ethic, he wouldn't be where he is now. Let another team babysit him. The Browns have supported him long enough. Also keep in mind that we won FOUR games in his ONE productive season & were more successful with him OFF the field than ON it in 2014. Could he come back to hurt us?..Possibly, but we don't know that. What we DO know is that he has & is hurting the Browns now as they are working to reverse a negative culture. Josh Gordon lacks the pride real winners have. Real winners don't blame their past for their shortcomings, they forge ahead to positive growth.
The Browns & their Fans deserve better.
Mike
I agree with you except that I believe a team WILL take a chance with him & I would wish him well. For the Browns, I don't think it's worth it to keep him. Not only does he make bad decisions, he plays without PRIDE. If he played with pride, he would play hard EVERY down & he clearly does not. He put himself under the microscope & has to live with being highly scrutinized. Sorry Josh, but YOU live with the consequences of your actions. Playing in the NFL is a privilege to be earned, not a right based on talent alone. Cutting him makes a strong & positive statement to those Browns' players who have worked their butts off to earn the privilege to be here, especially a few who have overcome previous off field issues. If he had HALF their pride & work ethic, he wouldn't be where he is now. Let another team babysit him. The Browns have supported him long enough. Also keep in mind that we won FOUR games in his ONE productive season & were more successful with him OFF the field than ON it in 2014. Could he come back to hurt us?..Possibly, but we don't know that. What we DO know is that he has & is hurting the Browns now as they are working to reverse a negative culture. Josh Gordon lacks the pride real winners have. Real winners don't blame their past for their shortcomings, they forge ahead to positive growth.
The Browns & their Fans deserve better.
Mike
Excellent post Mike. I agree but if we can get something for a trade for Gordon later I would at least like to get something. I don't want to see him back as a Brown. We have given him plenty of chances already. He has talent and even with his issues there will be another team who will want him and let them pay us for him instead of giving him away. I hope he can turn things around but even in his well written letter he seemed to try and justify his bad choices. He needs to see that and only blame himself for the bad decisions he has made.
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I feel like a lot of the people of this board don't know what it is like to grow up without a father. I personally don't know what it's like, but I imagine that you lack the discipline you would otherwise have if you did have a father. Personally, I know that I was always frightened by disappointing my father. Your mother is always there to coddle you, but your father is there to turn you into a man that will force you to own up to your own personal responsibilities. Not really defending Josh (he's a dumbass from my perspective), but you gotta walk a mile in his shoes before you scream "CUT HIM".
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I feel like a lot of the people of this board don't know what it is like to grow up without a father. I personally don't know what it's like, but I imagine that you lack the discipline you would otherwise have if you did have a father. Personally, I know that I was always frightened by disappointing my father. Your mother is always there to coddle you, but your father is there to turn you into a man that will force you to own up to your own personal responsibilities. Not really defending Josh (he's a dumbass from my perspective), but you gotta walk a mile in his shoes before you scream "CUT HIM".
I feel like a lot of the people of this board don't know what it is like to grow up without a father. I personally don't know what it's like, but I imagine that you lack the discipline you would otherwise have if you did have a father. Personally, I know that I was always frightened by disappointing my father. Your mother is always there to coddle you, but your father is there to turn you into a man that will force you to own up to your own personal responsibilities. Not really defending Josh (he's a dumbass from my perspective), but you gotta walk a mile in his shoes before you scream "CUT HIM".
The older wiser veterans need to mentor some of these players. The last person Gordon needed to be hanging around with was Johnny Manziel.
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I feel like a lot of the people of this board don't know what it is like to grow up without a father. I personally don't know what it's like, but I imagine that you lack the discipline you would otherwise have if you did have a father. Personally, I know that I was always frightened by disappointing my father. Your mother is always there to coddle you, but your father is there to turn you into a man that will force you to own up to your own personal responsibilities. Not really defending Josh (he's a dumbass from my perspective), but you gotta walk a mile in his shoes before you scream "CUT HIM".
The older wiser veterans need to mentor some of these players. The last person Gordon needed to be hanging around with was Johnny Manziel.
The older wiser veterans need to mentor some of these players. The last person Gordon needed to be hanging around with was Johnny Manziel.
Completely agree. Like Andrew Hawkins or Miles Austin (just from his position). Johnny is a dumbass in my own personal opinion. From what I understand Gordon (when he drank the alcohol that will get him suspended this time on the plane) was with several of his fellow Browns players. You would think one of the group would be like "hey Josh you can't drink that", but nobody tried to help him.
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The older wiser veterans need to mentor some of these players. The last person Gordon needed to be hanging around with was Johnny Manziel.
Completely agree. Like Andrew Hawkins or Miles Austin (just from his position). Johnny is a dumbass in my own personal opinion. From what I understand Gordon (when he drank the alcohol that will get him suspended this time on the plane) was with several of his fellow Browns players. You would think one of the group would be like "hey Josh you can't drink that", but nobody tried to help him.
You would think one of the group would be like "hey Josh you can't drink that", but nobody tried to help him.
I would like to see this team get a little smarter about things like this. It should have not have happened. Someone needed to have a talk to Gordon about the consequences and tried to help him. Bottom line is Gordon himself knew he could get that call at any time to report for a drug test within 4 hours. That thought should have been front and center at all times whenever he got tempted to drink and sad some of the Browns players became enablers for him to mess up yet again.
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Well if all the other Browns players are enablers shouldn't they be getting as much scrutiny as him? I completely concur the rest of the team needs to get smarter, but I feel like Josh shouldn't be singled out.
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cbbacker said:
I don't see what value he has? You do understand he isn't just suspended, he is banished essentially. He has continually broken the rules, while it's unlikely; he could be left out longer than a year. Even if he comes back what value does he have? No team will chance anything more then a 6 or 7 at best for a guy who is 1 incident from a lifetime ban.
He could have an amazing year and he would still be worthless to most teams. He would need to have like 4 years clean, and playing at a high level before he has any real value.
I hate the idea of cutting a talented player, but some people just will not learn until they have their livelyhood taken away. You cannot continue to let him make the organization look bad. If you do, it invites not only Gordon to continue breaking the rules, but also shows his teamates that they can get away with it as well. That kind of attitude can permeate a locker room and cause some real issues. Some team mates will hate him, and others will act like him.
I just don't think it's worth it.
I agree with you except that I believe a team WILL take a chance with him & I would wish him well. For the Browns, I don't think it's worth it to keep him. Not only does he make bad decisions, he plays without PRIDE. If he played with pride, he would play hard EVERY down & he clearly does not. He put himself under the microscope & has to live with being highly scrutinized. Sorry Josh, but YOU live with the consequences of your actions. Playing in the NFL is a privilege to be earned, not a right based on talent alone. Cutting him makes a strong & positive statement to those Browns' players who have worked their butts off to earn the privilege to be here, especially a few who have overcome previous off field issues. If he had HALF their pride & work ethic, he wouldn't be where he is now. Let another team babysit him. The Browns have supported him long enough. Also keep in mind that we won FOUR games in his ONE productive season & were more successful with him OFF the field than ON it in 2014. Could he come back to hurt us?..Possibly, but we don't know that. What we DO know is that he has & is hurting the Browns now as they are working to reverse a negative culture. Josh Gordon lacks the pride real winners have. Real winners don't blame their past for their shortcomings, they forge ahead to positive growth.
The Browns & their Fans deserve better.
Mike
I agree with you except that I believe a team WILL take a chance with him & I would wish him well. For the Browns, I don't think it's worth it to keep him. Not only does he make bad decisions, he plays without PRIDE. If he played with pride, he would play hard EVERY down & he clearly does not. He put himself under the microscope & has to live with being highly scrutinized. Sorry Josh, but YOU live with the consequences of your actions. Playing in the NFL is a privilege to be earned, not a right based on talent alone. Cutting him makes a strong & positive statement to those Browns' players who have worked their butts off to earn the privilege to be here, especially a few who have overcome previous off field issues. If he had HALF their pride & work ethic, he wouldn't be where he is now. Let another team babysit him. The Browns have supported him long enough. Also keep in mind that we won FOUR games in his ONE productive season & were more successful with him OFF the field than ON it in 2014. Could he come back to hurt us?..Possibly, but we don't know that. What we DO know is that he has & is hurting the Browns now as they are working to reverse a negative culture. Josh Gordon lacks the pride real winners have. Real winners don't blame their past for their shortcomings, they forge ahead to positive growth.
The Browns & their Fans deserve better.
Mike
Well said Mike. I agree Gordon has run out of strikes- at least with the Browns. If he goes on to have a HOF career with another team- it's a chance we're going to have to take.
If you are really looking for a villain you'll find one anywhere. This has basically become a witch hunt... get a grip.
Sorry PG- Josh by his previous actions- invited the witches into his house. Only he can drive them away- and a start would be to finally wise up. I don't know how much more of a wake up call it would be to piss away around $10 million- those were some mighty expensive drinks.
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Let's not make a story bigger. How do we know if nothing was said to Josh about Drinking?? Not Team Babysitter's, Josh states he blew it and thought drinking suspension ended to league at end of season, (Yes Dumb) but if was asked by teammate's I would think that was his answer. Josh adult and responsible for his own suspension violations, I am sure he signed his restrictions and sounds like a agent should have told him soon as he heard the word Las Vegas..
Browns & Buffett: Got to go fishin, Down to rock bottom again, with just a few Friends -
I would get rid of any car that is unreliable and is hardly ever in running condition.
I would get rid of any car that is unreliable and is hardly ever in running condition.
If it was a 74 Pinto, sure. A 74 Vette might be a different deal
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I would get rid of any car that is unreliable and is hardly ever in running condition.
If it was a 74 Pinto, sure. A 74 Vette might be a different deal
Well let's say it is a Corvette. Your mechanic tells you it might be a cracked block but he won't know until he tears it apart.If it was a 74 Pinto, sure. A 74 Vette might be a different deal
If the block isn't cracked he might be able to fix it and you would still have a pretty cool car or easily sell it. If you send it to the junkyard today you'll never know.
WSS
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Well let's say it is a Corvette. Your mechanic tells you it might be a cracked block but he won't know until he tears it apart.If it was a 74 Pinto, sure. A 74 Vette might be a different deal
If the block isn't cracked he might be able to fix it and you would still have a pretty cool car or easily sell it. If you send it to the junkyard today you'll never know.
WSS
Well let's say it is a Corvette. Your mechanic tells you it might be a cracked block but he won't know until he tears it apart.
If the block isn't cracked he might be able to fix it and you would still have a pretty cool car or easily sell it. If you send it to the junkyard today you'll never know.
WSS
Let's say you have also had other issues with this really cool car and it has nickel and dimed you to death with one thing after the other has gone wrong. The car has been nothing but a headache. Now it sits in the garage and might have a cracked engine block. It is still too valuable to just junk it out, the body alone is worth some money so you sell it as is and get what you can. That is what I would do with Gordon. Try to get what I can later for a trade.
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I think you guys are reacting out of anger. There is absolutely no benefit the cutting the guy now. None. But many of the fans in their hysteria just don't understand that. The worst that happens is that in the end he has no possible value. Which is what you by cutting him today.
Cutting the guy doesn't punish him whatsoever and it has absolutely no benefit to the team besides to assuage your anger.
A better metaphor might be if that Corvette stalls on the highway you get out and smash it to bits with a sledgehammer. Maybe you feel better for a second but...
WSS
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I think you guys are reacting out of anger. There is absolutely no benefit the cutting the guy now. None. But many of the fans in their hysteria just don't understand that. The worst that happens is that in the end he has no possible value. Which is what you by cutting him today.
Cutting the guy doesn't punish him whatsoever and it has absolutely no benefit to the team besides to assuage your anger.
A better metaphor might be if that Corvette stalls on the highway you get out and smash it to bits with a sledgehammer. Maybe you feel better for a second but...
WSS
I think you guys are reacting out of anger. There is absolutely no benefit the cutting the guy now. None. But many of the fans in their hysteria just don't understand that. The worst that happens question he has no value. Which is what you get like it.
Cutting the guy doesn't punish him whatsoever and it has absolutely no benefit to the team besides assuage your anger.
A better metaphor might be if that Corvette stalls on the highway you get out and smash it to bits with a sledgehammer. Maybe you feel better for a second but...
WSS
No. It shows that given that he has already had numerous chances, and repeatedly makes the same mistake, the consequence is being cut. The benefit is that is gives a warning to someone else who might be doing the same behavior.
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So I have a serious question for you guys that say keep him. How many more screw-ups would it take before you all would say enough is enough? 1, 2, 3 more? Truth be told, I think cutting him is what he needs for his life. Maybe he needs to go a Ricky Williams type journey, I don't know. But let's make something clear that you people seem to not understand: He has NO value as a trade piece, zero. Are we also not forgetting how the guy clearly didn't give a shit out on the field when he came back this year?
I'm just not sure what it's going to take for some. Yes, there is value in cutting him loose. It sends a message that you can't keep screwing up and be coddled. It shows the Browns aren't a joke organization who has to desperately hold on to a guy who doesn't give a shit because he's talented.. Let him go, please Browns do it.
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