A note to those who want to dump Braylon Edwards.
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i'm all for washing our hands of as many players from last years shitfest as possible.
Get what we can, while we can
guns don't kill kids-pitt bulls do. -
Bill Belichick and others have proved that you don't need a star or stud WR to win championships. It's a big plus to have a dominant WR. But it's not what wins championship games.
I want a good offensive line and a stud defense....(Steeler's defense anyone?)
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Shep come on, not "it is all about the QB" again.
Look when the QB is good, the better WR's make it happen. Good QB play does not mean mediocre WR's get you to the Super Bowl. You need a very good WR on one side to tilt coverage.
I dont care who is playing QB, you need a good WR like BE.
Shep come on, not "it is all about the QB" again.
Look when the QB is good, the better WR's make it happen. Good QB play does not mean mediocre WR's get you to the Super Bowl. You need a very good WR on one side to tilt coverage.
I dont care who is playing QB, you need a good WR like BE.
Really? What great WR's did Tom Brady throw to for all of the Patriot championship teams?
David Patten? Torrence Small? Troy Brown? Deion Branch? Kevin Kasper? David Givens?
Shep is exactly right!!!
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i'm all for washing our hands of as many players from last years shitfest as possible.
Get what we can, while we can
i'm all for washing our hands of as many players from last years shitfest as possible.
Get what we can, while we can
i just wanted to say it again
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Shep come on, not "it is all about the QB" again.
Look when the QB is good, the better WR's make it happen. Good QB play does not mean mediocre WR's get you to the Super Bowl. You need a very good WR on one side to tilt coverage.
I dont care who is playing QB, you need a good WR like BE.
Really? What great WR's did Tom Brady throw to for all of the Patriot championship teams?
David Patten? Torrence Small? Troy Brown? Deion Branch? Kevin Kasper? David Givens?
Shep is exactly right!!!
oldcow1945 said:
Really? What great WR's did Tom Brady throw to for all of the Patriot championship teams?David Patten? Torrence Small? Troy Brown? Deion Branch? Kevin Kasper? David Givens?
And notice how Brady's quarterback rating went up 30 points when he got to throw to Moss and Welker.
Branch and Givens are/were pretty good receivers, btw. The Pats were able to get a 1st Round pick in exchange for Branch, and Givens ended up signing a big FA contract. Were it not for a terrible knee injury, Givens might have developed into a great #2 receiver.
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@shepwrite said:
On the other hand, Calvin Johnson is the most talented WR in the history of hands... and he went 0-16. That was his effect on the bottom line given a shaky QB situation.Dude had 78 catches, 1,331 yards, and 12 TD's last year.
Instead of saying, "He's nothing without a good QB," you should be saying, "With a good quarterback, he could be one of the best ever."
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oldcow1945 said:
Really? What great WR's did Tom Brady throw to for all of the Patriot championship teams?David Patten? Torrence Small? Troy Brown? Deion Branch? Kevin Kasper? David Givens?
And notice how Brady's quarterback rating went up 30 points when he got to throw to Moss and Welker.
Branch and Givens are/were pretty good receivers, btw. The Pats were able to get a 1st Round pick in exchange for Branch, and Givens ended up signing a big FA contract. Were it not for a terrible knee injury, Givens might have developed into a great #2 receiver.
Aloysius said:
And notice how Brady's quarterback rating went up 30 points when he got to throw to Moss and Welker.Branch and Givens are/were pretty good receivers, btw. The Pats were able to get a 1st Round pick in exchange for Branch, and Givens ended up signing a big FA contract. Were it not for a terrible knee injury, Givens might have developed into a great #2 receiver.
Yep....And how did that trade go for the Seahawks? Wait....Branch was never the same. It was Tom Brady that made him a good WR.
David Givens was pretty good? This 7th round pick caught 2, 3, 6 and 1 TD in his four seasons with the Pats. Tw0 seasons of over 50 catches. Let's have a comparison...Braylon Edwards caught 55 pases and 3 TD's this year. That was an Average year for Givens....For two years anyways. He didn't do anything but for those two years. I'd barely call him average.
Let's take a closer look at David Patten to prove this point even further...In his 12 season career he has had 4 moderately successful seasons. Guess who 3 of those 4 successful seasons were with? The Pats.
But your post misses the entire point. Whether or not Brady and the Pats had a year for the record books in 2007, it has no bearing on my point. The point is Tom brady was going to go down as one of the top 10 QB's in the history of the NFL before Randy Moss....And Tom brady won numerous Championships and MVP's with, yes, very average WR's.
We are talking great Qb's and Championships here......And my point is still the same and just as valid.
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Aloysius said:
And notice how Brady's quarterback rating went up 30 points when he got to throw to Moss and Welker.Branch and Givens are/were pretty good receivers, btw. The Pats were able to get a 1st Round pick in exchange for Branch, and Givens ended up signing a big FA contract. Were it not for a terrible knee injury, Givens might have developed into a great #2 receiver.
Yep....And how did that trade go for the Seahawks? Wait....Branch was never the same. It was Tom Brady that made him a good WR.
David Givens was pretty good? This 7th round pick caught 2, 3, 6 and 1 TD in his four seasons with the Pats. Tw0 seasons of over 50 catches. Let's have a comparison...Braylon Edwards caught 55 pases and 3 TD's this year. That was an Average year for Givens....For two years anyways. He didn't do anything but for those two years. I'd barely call him average.
Let's take a closer look at David Patten to prove this point even further...In his 12 season career he has had 4 moderately successful seasons. Guess who 3 of those 4 successful seasons were with? The Pats.
But your post misses the entire point. Whether or not Brady and the Pats had a year for the record books in 2007, it has no bearing on my point. The point is Tom brady was going to go down as one of the top 10 QB's in the history of the NFL before Randy Moss....And Tom brady won numerous Championships and MVP's with, yes, very average WR's.
We are talking great Qb's and Championships here......And my point is still the same and just as valid.
oldcow1945 said:
But your post misses the entire point. Whether or not Brady and the Pats had a year for the record books in 2007, it has no bearing on my point. The point is Tom brady was going to go down as one of the top 10 QB's in the history of the NFL before Randy Moss....And Tom brady won numerous Championships and MVP's with, yes, very average WR's.We are talking great Qb's and Championships here......And my point is still the same and just as valid.
If that's your point, doesn't it speak more to the greatness of Tom Brady than what we should do to insure our young QB succeeds?
If we make personnel moves based on the assumption that we already have a Tom Brady, we won't do enough to make sure BQ has anywhere near that kind of success.
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oldcow1945 said:
But your post misses the entire point. Whether or not Brady and the Pats had a year for the record books in 2007, it has no bearing on my point. The point is Tom brady was going to go down as one of the top 10 QB's in the history of the NFL before Randy Moss....And Tom brady won numerous Championships and MVP's with, yes, very average WR's.We are talking great Qb's and Championships here......And my point is still the same and just as valid.
If that's your point, doesn't it speak more to the greatness of Tom Brady than what we should do to insure our young QB succeeds?
If we make personnel moves based on the assumption that we already have a Tom Brady, we won't do enough to make sure BQ has anywhere near that kind of success.
Aloysius said:
If that's your point, doesn't it speak more to the greatness of Tom Brady than what we should do to insure our young QB succeeds?If we make personnel moves based on the assumption that we already have a Tom Brady, we won't do enough to make sure BQ has anywhere near that kind of success.
It may speak to his greatness to a point but at the same time Brady has very normal stats when it comes to the amount of times he gets sacked in a year, or the amount of TD's to INT's he throws in a year, or his rushing yards. Those stats of Tom's are very average. Until 2007, Brady had never thrown as many TD's as Derek Anderson in one year. (29)
But he still won and was recognized as one of the great players. Not because of his great arm or elusivenss or the great WR's he was throwing to. He was great because he completed over 60% of his passes and the Pats were great as a team. They played great defense and ran the ball well and were good enough in the passing game.
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Every time I see someone rip the ball to Edwards I hear that Necessary Roughness voice in the back of my head "Don't throw it to Stonehands!"
That being said right now, unfortunately, he's our target nearing capable.
JJ is done.
Stallworth pulls his vagina 15 out of 16 games a year.
Rucker is unproven.
Steptoe is a #4 at best.
Hubbard needs to show something near consistency to be a #3.
Sad thing is, with Cribbs never seeing the field those guys are the cream of our crop.
I always thought Cribbs would be a better back than receiver and is wasting away at the wideout spot.
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@shepwrite said:
Dearest Mike,You ignorant gay Southern Californian ad slut.
WRs are about as good as the quarterback throwing to them, unless you think Indianapolis just really knows WRs or Moss just had an off year in Oakland, right? Who are Phil Rivers receivers, and that SOB had a CRAZY year passing the ball. Best in the league, in fact.
The truth is, guys who can run and catch aren't as rare as they'd like us to believe. They're great when the quarterback play is good and pretty bad when it isn't, at least that's the way it's played. It's also about how many balls come your way -- KJ was something special when he had 20 opportunities a game from Couch. Not so much when he only got 8-10.
Hell, prior to Moss, the Patriots won a few Super Bowls and I can't even remember their wide receivers. On the other hand, Calvin Johnson is the most talented WR in the history of hands... and he went 0-16. That was his effect on the bottom line given a shaky QB situation.
If your quarterback is playing really well, if he's married to the right offense, and if pass protection is good... there are an awful lot of guys who could catch the passes he throws. Like you, I doubt that Edwards' 2008 is really emblematic of who he is, but who he is does include dropping more than his share of passes year after year. We can do as well with a high second round pick (Hakeem Nicks) and a free agent like Laveranus Coles or Devery Henderson along with Stallworth, Steptoe, and Hubbard.
Braylon is not as great as mz the pussy makes him out to be. He has an extreme attitude. He belongs in a tinsel town atmosphere (i.e. = not Cleveland). Ship him to NY, Miami or PHI.
Braylon is not as great as mz the pussy makes him out to be. He has an extreme attitude. He belongs in a tinsel town atmosphere (i.e. = not Cleveland). Ship him to NY, Miami or PHI.
mz the pussy loves Braylon's hands
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Braylon is not as great as mz the pussy makes him out to be. He has an extreme attitude. He belongs in a tinsel town atmosphere (i.e. = not Cleveland). Ship him to NY, Miami or PHI.
mz the pussy loves Braylon's hands
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I just want to reiterate....
the reason to dump BE has nothing to do with talent or dropped passes . It has to do to the fact he'll be a free agent next year. He doesn't want to be a Brown and wants the Fack out of OHIO. It is about getting something Now, while we can get something for him, otherwise he'll be gone next year without anything more than a compensatory pick in last part of third round! I personally think we can do way better than that and would try to get him to the eagles or Giants as soon as I could for a late first rounder if possible or somewhere in the NFC. He will not be a Brown after next year!
That is why I want him gone!
sincerely,
Jim
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Shep come on, not "it is all about the QB" again.
Look when the QB is good, the better WR's make it happen. Good QB play does not mean mediocre WR's get you to the Super Bowl. You need a very good WR on one side to tilt coverage.
I dont care who is playing QB, you need a good WR like BE.
Really? What great WR's did Tom Brady throw to for all of the Patriot championship teams?
David Patten? Torrence Small? Troy Brown? Deion Branch? Kevin Kasper? David Givens?
Shep is exactly right!!!
oldcow1945 said:
Really? What great WR's did Tom Brady throw to for all of the Patriot championship teams?David Patten? Torrence Small? Troy Brown? Deion Branch? Kevin Kasper? David Givens?
Shep is exactly right!!!
Hey I am not saying Brady needed a Moss. Brady is a freak, in the Top 5 of all time, so using him as an example of why WE don't need a #1 is apples and oranges.
Currently we do not have a consistent offensive system to rely upon. Not saying we need to keep Braylon just so we have a #1 stud, I am saying we need a #1 stud with NFL experience. BE had a bad year last season, no question. And with his contract up, maybe we should trade him. But without a replacement of equal talent - and he does have awesome talent - I cannot see moving him.
Remember also, those Patriot defenses helped make up for early mistakes Brady made in his career, something we don't have.
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oldcow1945 said:
Really? What great WR's did Tom Brady throw to for all of the Patriot championship teams?David Patten? Torrence Small? Troy Brown? Deion Branch? Kevin Kasper? David Givens?
Shep is exactly right!!!
Hey I am not saying Brady needed a Moss. Brady is a freak, in the Top 5 of all time, so using him as an example of why WE don't need a #1 is apples and oranges.
Currently we do not have a consistent offensive system to rely upon. Not saying we need to keep Braylon just so we have a #1 stud, I am saying we need a #1 stud with NFL experience. BE had a bad year last season, no question. And with his contract up, maybe we should trade him. But without a replacement of equal talent - and he does have awesome talent - I cannot see moving him.
Remember also, those Patriot defenses helped make up for early mistakes Brady made in his career, something we don't have.
Hey I am not saying Brady needed a Moss. Brady is a freak, in the Top 5 of all time, so using him as an example of why WE don't need a #1 is apples and oranges.
Currently we do not have a consistent offensive system to rely upon. Not saying we need to keep Braylon just so we have a #1 stud, I am saying we need a #1 stud with NFL experience. BE had a bad year last season, no question. And with his contract up, maybe we should trade him. But without a replacement of equal talent - and he does have awesome talent - I cannot see moving him.
Remember also, those Patriot defenses helped make up for early mistakes Brady made in his career, something we don't have.
I won't disagree that it's a bit of comparing apples to oranges. You are right.
But as much as Brady has won, his numbers before 2007 were not staggering. He got sacked on an average of around 28 times a year. He'd throw 12 to 14 INT's a year and until 2007 he never threw as many TD's in a season as Derek Anderson did in one season (29)
He'll go down as one of the greats because he won a lot. He won a lot because of NE's defense and ability to run the ball as well as Brady's arm. I don't think it would be too much to expect BQ complete 60% of his passes and to throw 24 TD's to 12 INT's. 24 TD's is 1.5 a game. That is a reasonable expectation for Quinn. These numbers are very Tom Brady like before his freakish year of 2007. The Pats won championships with the former numbers.
If you keep Edwards you better plan on franchising him the next year. If you don't, he walks and you get nothing for him.
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I just don't see the "super star" talent that some are talking about in here. I see a cry baby. Last year he couldn't catch the ball. I say dump him for what we can get. His speed is questionable. His hands are not good, at least not last year. He has an extreme attitude. Fook him.
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