Rebuilding an offense... again
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Pick up someone like Cecil Shorts and Charles Clay in FA. While using one first round pick on an NT like Shelton or Brown, use the other on a big receiver like Fowler or White. Use the second rounder on an OL that can compete on the right side - the starting 5 are pretty good, but depth is shocking. At QB, fuck knows, but if you have a skill group now looking like:
QB - Manziel, Shaw
RB - Crowell, West, Winston
WR - Shorts, Fowler, Hawkins, Gabriel, Benjamin
TE - Clay, Barnidge, Dray
Then a solid QB like Hoyer (why the fuck not, the players know and respect him) can give a solid performance. Give time for whoever we decide is the QB of the future - Manziel, Shaw, or someone else - to develop.
Pick up someone like Cecil Shorts
A Cleveland guy who went to Mount Union. I am liking him as a FA. He could be a solid WR2 in the right system and with a decent QB. He has missed 8 games in 3 years as a starter due to injuries, but when he's played in 3 years he's put up:
174 catches for 2313 yards and 11 TDs which is
58 for 771 and 3.6 TD's per year as a starter...
I don't know much about his effort, severity of injuries, etc... I wonder what he might cost in FA??
#Justsayin' -
What is offense? Lol honestly put Shaw at QB, Crow at RB, Dink and Dunk down the field with short crossing routes to Gabe, Bengi, and Hawk, leave the TE in the block. Eat clock and score TD's
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I'm the eternal optimist. I think it was mc shay with his first mock draft with the Browns picking an offensive tackle from Pittsburgh and receiver from Michigan. Upgrade Schwartz perhaps move him inside to guard ? The report also spoke of the receiver playing tight end. Now without much change in the office ants, since we have heard flip praise the zone blocking system, it shouldn't be a huge leap. With a year of experience McDonald should be a satisfactory backup. He got better steadily until he got hurt. As for quarterback? Who cares? Hoyer or any other journeyman should be able to hold down the fort especially with improved O line.
I hope johnny is serious and comes into camp ready and eager and abel to play. No we won't have josh gordon. So what up? We didn't have him last year. No change, no difference.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
Here is our current crop of o-linemen:
Tackles - Thomas (LT), Schwartz (RT), McQuistan, A.McDonald, Bowie
Guards - Bitonio (LG), Greco (RG), Barton, Painter
Centers - Mack
, McDonald, Hughlett (LS)Is there a weak spot in that starting 5? ..I dont see a major weakness in our starting 5
If so, how much do you invest to improve this line? ...I invest a 2nd or 3rd rounder for a Guard, assuming Bito is a great backup at Tackle and Greco is a great back up at center...meaning we need a guard to cover in case one of those 2 have to move over...
Not only that, but what kind of blocking scheme fits these guys best? ...we were #1 last year with the ZBS and blasting the run game...I say stay with what works GREAT
In my opinion, this is a solid group but need a versatile G/T player in case we lose another starter next year... McQuiston is NOT that guy...
Here are our "skill position" players:
QB - Manziel, Shaw
RB - Crowell, West, Winston
WR - Hawkins, Gabriel, Benjamin, R.Smith, Bates, Cone
TE - Barnidge, Dray
OH JEEZ... doesn't that strike fear into opposing defensive coordinators!?!? What the he** do we do about this group to make them legit? Here is where I am totally lost...
Any thoughts?...thoughts?...HA!....The same things weve been discussing all along.....QB & WR are the 2 skill positions that need immediate upgrade.....Id sign Austin and add a deep threat WR to complement the very capable Hawkins. And, of course, the on going QB saga which Ill pass on discussing here cause there are a million other threads already.....
Im good with the RB's and TE's, but wouldnt mind a receiving TE project to develop......
Here is our current crop of o-linemen:
Tackles - Thomas (LT), Schwartz (RT), McQuistan, A.McDonald, Bowie
Guards - Bitonio (LG), Greco (RG), Barton, Painter
Centers - Mack
, McDonald, Hughlett (LS)Is there a weak spot in that starting 5? ..I dont see a major weakness in our starting 5
If so, how much do you invest to improve this line? ...I invest a 2nd or 3rd rounder for a Guard, assuming Bito is a great backup at Tackle and Greco is a great back up at center...meaning we need a guard to cover in case one of those 2 have to move over...
Not only that, but what kind of blocking scheme fits these guys best? ...we were #1 last year with the ZBS and blasting the run game...I say stay with what works GREAT
In my opinion, this is a solid group but need a versatile G/T player in case we lose another starter next year... McQuiston is NOT that guy...
Here are our "skill position" players:
QB - Manziel, Shaw
RB - Crowell, West, Winston
WR - Hawkins, Gabriel, Benjamin, R.Smith, Bates, Cone
TE - Barnidge, Dray
OH JEEZ... doesn't that strike fear into opposing defensive coordinators!?!? What the he** do we do about this group to make them legit? Here is where I am totally lost...
Any thoughts?...thoughts?...HA!....The same things weve been discussing all along.....QB & WR are the 2 skill positions that need immediate upgrade.....Id sign Austin and add a deep threat WR to complement the very capable Hawkins. And, of course, the on going QB saga which Ill pass on discussing here cause there are a million other threads already.....
Im good with the RB's and TE's, but wouldnt mind a receiving TE project to develop......
Not giving you a pass on dodging QB question
What would you do? That is the million dollar question. -
Here is our current crop of o-linemen:
Tackles - Thomas (LT), Schwartz (RT), McQuistan, A.McDonald, Bowie
Guards - Bitonio (LG), Greco (RG), Barton, Painter
Centers - Mack
, McDonald, Hughlett (LS)Is there a weak spot in that starting 5? ..I dont see a major weakness in our starting 5
If so, how much do you invest to improve this line? ...I invest a 2nd or 3rd rounder for a Guard, assuming Bito is a great backup at Tackle and Greco is a great back up at center...meaning we need a guard to cover in case one of those 2 have to move over...
Not only that, but what kind of blocking scheme fits these guys best? ...we were #1 last year with the ZBS and blasting the run game...I say stay with what works GREAT
In my opinion, this is a solid group but need a versatile G/T player in case we lose another starter next year... McQuiston is NOT that guy...
Here are our "skill position" players:
QB - Manziel, Shaw
RB - Crowell, West, Winston
WR - Hawkins, Gabriel, Benjamin, R.Smith, Bates, Cone
TE - Barnidge, Dray
OH JEEZ... doesn't that strike fear into opposing defensive coordinators!?!? What the he** do we do about this group to make them legit? Here is where I am totally lost...
Any thoughts?...thoughts?...HA!....The same things weve been discussing all along.....QB & WR are the 2 skill positions that need immediate upgrade.....Id sign Austin and add a deep threat WR to complement the very capable Hawkins. And, of course, the on going QB saga which Ill pass on discussing here cause there are a million other threads already.....
Im good with the RB's and TE's, but wouldnt mind a receiving TE project to develop......
Not giving you a pass on dodging QB question
What would you do? That is the million dollar question.Not giving you a pass on dodging QB question
What would you do? That is the million dollar question.No sweat....Id sign Hoyer or another avg veteran(Glennon seems to be flavor of the day)...then draft another one 4-5th round....and keep the best 3 at the end of camp....
"unless" I can get Foles.....then thats my first choice....
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Not giving you a pass on dodging QB question
What would you do? That is the million dollar question.No sweat....Id sign Hoyer or another avg veteran(Glennon seems to be flavor of the day)...then draft another one 4-5th round....and keep the best 3 at the end of camp....
"unless" I can get Foles.....then thats my first choice....
No sweat....Id sign Hoyer or another avg veteran(Glennon seems to be flavor of the day)...then draft another one 4-5th round....and keep the best 3 at the end of camp....
"unless" I can get Foles.....then thats my first choice....
Sounds like a good strategy and I would go with that. I liked a couple of Qb's you posted once, one from Oregon State and the other one I think was from Washington.
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No sweat....Id sign Hoyer or another avg veteran(Glennon seems to be flavor of the day)...then draft another one 4-5th round....and keep the best 3 at the end of camp....
"unless" I can get Foles.....then thats my first choice....
Sounds like a good strategy and I would go with that. I liked a couple of Qb's you posted once, one from Oregon State and the other one I think was from Washington.
Sounds like a good strategy and I would go with that. I liked a couple of Qb's you posted once, one from Oregon State and the other one I think was from Washington.
Yes....Mannion from Oregon and Halliday from Washington are my dark horse picks for the later rounds.....(you have a good memory)
Ill add, I dont know why Mannion isnt getting more play, other than he's fairly immobile(classic pocket passer). He's a high character guy, in a pro offense, very efficient, has a great touch and is very accurate. Doesn't have a rocket, but has enough. He's one that I think has the fewest questions of em all.....
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I'm the eternal optimist. I think it was mc shay with his first mock draft with the Browns picking an offensive tackle from Pittsburgh and receiver from Michigan. Upgrade Schwartz perhaps move him inside to guard ? The report also spoke of the receiver playing tight end. Now without much change in the office ants, since we have heard flip praise the zone blocking system, it shouldn't be a huge leap. With a year of experience McDonald should be a satisfactory backup. He got better steadily until he got hurt. As for quarterback? Who cares? Hoyer or any other journeyman should be able to hold down the fort especially with improved O line.
I hope johnny is serious and comes into camp ready and eager and abel to play. No we won't have josh gordon. So what up? We didn't have him last year. No change, no difference.
WSS
... As for quarterback? Who cares? ...
WSS
LOL... This has to be the best one-liner I've heard in a while...
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So, we know our defense is going to be pretty good again this coming year but whether we like it or not, we are re-building on offense... yet again. The roster on that side of the ball is "weak" at best and we have nearly an entire new coaching staff which means new system, new players they will covet, etc...
Nobody is a DeFilippo expert, and I doubt any of us really know what kind of system he wants to run so let me ask you guys what you might do with this team from a roster and system perspective?
Here is our current crop of o-linemen:
Tackles - Thomas (LT), Schwartz (RT), McQuistan, A.McDonald, Bowie
Guards - Bitonio (LG), Greco (RG), Barton, Painter
Centers - Mack
, McDonald, Hughlett (LS)Is there a weak spot in that starting 5? If so, how much do you invest to improve this line? Not only that, but what kind of blocking scheme fits these guys best? In my opinion, this is a solid group but need a versatile G/T player in case we lose another starter next year... McQuiston is NOT that guy...
Here are our "skill position" players:
QB - Manziel, Shaw
RB - Crowell, West, Winston
WR - Hawkins, Gabriel, Benjamin, R.Smith, Bates, Cone
TE - Barnidge, Dray
OH JEEZ... doesn't that strike fear into opposing defensive coordinators!?!? What the he** do we do about this group to make them legit? Here is where I am totally lost...
Any thoughts?
So, we know our defense is going to be pretty good again this coming year but whether we like it or not, we are re-building on offense... yet again. The roster on that side of the ball is "weak" at best and we have nearly an entire new coaching staff which means new system, new players they will covet, etc...
Nobody is a DeFilippo expert, and I doubt any of us really know what kind of system he wants to run so let me ask you guys what you might do with this team from a roster and system perspective?
Here is our current crop of o-linemen:
Tackles - Thomas (LT), Schwartz (RT), McQuistan, A.McDonald, Bowie
Guards - Bitonio (LG), Greco (RG), Barton, Painter
Centers - Mack
, McDonald, Hughlett (LS)Is there a weak spot in that starting 5? If so, how much do you invest to improve this line? Not only that, but what kind of blocking scheme fits these guys best? In my opinion, this is a solid group but need a versatile G/T player in case we lose another starter next year... McQuiston is NOT that guy...
Here are our "skill position" players:
QB - Manziel, Shaw
RB - Crowell, West, Winston
WR - Hawkins, Gabriel, Benjamin, R.Smith, Bates, Cone
TE - Barnidge, Dray
OH JEEZ... doesn't that strike fear into opposing defensive coordinators!?!? What the he** do we do about this group to make them legit? Here is where I am totally lost...
Any thoughts?
I do not think a "rebuild" is necessary. The line could use some depth perhaps..but has all pro talent there. The receiving corps is fairly solid if unspectacular. The RBs could be good.
OK, a real QB, a top notch WR and TE would be in order.
Needing 2-3 skill players is what I call needing some tweeking....not rebuilding.
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Sounds like a good strategy and I would go with that. I liked a couple of Qb's you posted once, one from Oregon State and the other one I think was from Washington.
Yes....Mannion from Oregon and Halliday from Washington are my dark horse picks for the later rounds.....(you have a good memory)
Ill add, I dont know why Mannion isnt getting more play, other than he's fairly immobile(classic pocket passer). He's a high character guy, in a pro offense, very efficient, has a great touch and is very accurate. Doesn't have a rocket, but has enough. He's one that I think has the fewest questions of em all.....
Yes....Mannion from Oregon and Halliday from Washington are my dark horse picks for the later rounds.....(you have a good memory)
Ill add, I dont know why Mannion isnt getting more play, other than he's fairly immobile(classic pocket passer). He's a high character guy, in a pro offense, very efficient, has a great touch and is very accurate. Doesn't have a rocket, but has enough. He's one that I think has the fewest questions of em all.....
I'd add Garrett Grayson to that list. If we're drafting a QB, those seem like the best 3 in terms of value... at least for now
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Im not sweating bullets. the core group of players are there. Cameron i suppose would suck to loose but he is on the concussion watch list. Gipson is Key. We need a QB a to fill in the pieces with the draft and FA.
Im more worried about wiffing on talent in the draft if farmer isnt going to be a part od the process.
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So, we know our defense is going to be pretty good again this coming year but whether we like it or not, we are re-building on offense... yet again. The roster on that side of the ball is "weak" at best and we have nearly an entire new coaching staff which means new system, new players they will covet, etc...
Nobody is a DeFilippo expert, and I doubt any of us really know what kind of system he wants to run so let me ask you guys what you might do with this team from a roster and system perspective?
Here is our current crop of o-linemen:
Tackles - Thomas (LT), Schwartz (RT), McQuistan, A.McDonald, Bowie
Guards - Bitonio (LG), Greco (RG), Barton, Painter
Centers - Mack
, McDonald, Hughlett (LS)Is there a weak spot in that starting 5? If so, how much do you invest to improve this line? Not only that, but what kind of blocking scheme fits these guys best? In my opinion, this is a solid group but need a versatile G/T player in case we lose another starter next year... McQuiston is NOT that guy...
Here are our "skill position" players:
QB - Manziel, Shaw
RB - Crowell, West, Winston
WR - Hawkins, Gabriel, Benjamin, R.Smith, Bates, Cone
TE - Barnidge, Dray
OH JEEZ... doesn't that strike fear into opposing defensive coordinators!?!? What the he** do we do about this group to make them legit? Here is where I am totally lost...
Any thoughts?
I do not think a "rebuild" is necessary. The line could use some depth perhaps..but has all pro talent there. The receiving corps is fairly solid if unspectacular. The RBs could be good.
OK, a real QB, a top notch WR and TE would be in order.
Needing 2-3 skill players is what I call needing some tweeking....not rebuilding.
I do not think a "rebuild" is necessary. The line could use some depth perhaps..but has all pro talent there. The receiving corps is fairly solid if unspectacular. The RBs could be good.
OK, a real QB, a top notch WR and TE would be in order.
Needing 2-3 skill players is what I call needing some tweeking....not rebuilding.
Whether necessary or not, we are AGAIN going into the offseason with a new offensive system, and with a 1st time play-caller so we are esentially starting from scratch... It may help that we have some talent on the line, but the line itself doesn't move the football...
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I do not think a "rebuild" is necessary. The line could use some depth perhaps..but has all pro talent there. The receiving corps is fairly solid if unspectacular. The RBs could be good.
OK, a real QB, a top notch WR and TE would be in order.
Needing 2-3 skill players is what I call needing some tweeking....not rebuilding.
Whether necessary or not, we are AGAIN going into the offseason with a new offensive system, and with a 1st time play-caller so we are esentially starting from scratch... It may help that we have some talent on the line, but the line itself doesn't move the football...
Whether necessary or not, we are AGAIN going into the offseason with a new offensive system, and with a 1st time play-caller so we are esentially starting from scratch... It may help that we have some talent on the line, but the line itself doesn't move the football...
Well, when I hear the term "rebuild" I take that usually to mean that we have to do much to replace the talent that is in place.
I don't think that much of the talent that is in place needs to be replaced. It just needs to be augmented. Except, of course, as always, Quarterback.
The guys that are there can do a job. Hawkins and Benjamin and Gabriel etc. can play.....but, yea, a Gordon like WR to add to the mix would be very helpful. And Dray and Barnidge can do the job...but maybe a top rookie TE could be helpful. Etc.
To my view, if you have the talent....you can devise a system to fit the quality of that talent.....unless you are a completely untractable OC....which I do not think Filippo is.
You gotta have that quality triggerman, sure. That has been the Browns biggest problem. But at this point, in FA, in the draft....I am willing to work on strengthening all the other elements of the team......and then putting that cherry on top if we can find him at some point. I don't know that he is here. (including Hoyer)
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My problem with OL starts at Schwartz and anybody behind him. To fix at Guard though: FA-Jets-Willie Colon or Mike Iupati. Draft: Cam Erving plays every spot OL at FSU or G AJ Cann at 19 they are both gone at our pick 43.(Erving close) Later rounds more than suitable for our situation is duke Tomlinson at our pick 77 but at pick 77 WR PR KR Tyler Lockett at K State we cannot pass on.. I see G/C needed but not as bad as still seeing MINGO on the field attempting to play DEF. DT-1st pick Shelton. ILB- McKinney 2nd pick or Cam Erving
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So, we know our defense is going to be pretty good again this coming year but whether we like it or not, we are re-building on offense... yet again. The roster on that side of the ball is "weak" at best and we have nearly an entire new coaching staff which means new system, new players they will covet, etc...
Nobody is a DeFilippo expert, and I doubt any of us really know what kind of system he wants to run so let me ask you guys what you might do with this team from a roster and system perspective?
Here is our current crop of o-linemen:
Tackles - Thomas (LT), Schwartz (RT), McQuistan, A.McDonald, Bowie
Guards - Bitonio (LG), Greco (RG), Barton, Painter
Centers - Mack
, McDonald, Hughlett (LS)Is there a weak spot in that starting 5? If so, how much do you invest to improve this line? Not only that, but what kind of blocking scheme fits these guys best? In my opinion, this is a solid group but need a versatile G/T player in case we lose another starter next year... McQuiston is NOT that guy...
Here are our "skill position" players:
QB - Manziel, Shaw
RB - Crowell, West, Winston
WR - Hawkins, Gabriel, Benjamin, R.Smith, Bates, Cone
TE - Barnidge, Dray
OH JEEZ... doesn't that strike fear into opposing defensive coordinators!?!? What the he** do we do about this group to make them legit? Here is where I am totally lost...
Any thoughts?
So, we know our defense is going to be pretty good again this coming year but whether we like it or not, we are re-building on offense... yet again. The roster on that side of the ball is "weak" at best and we have nearly an entire new coaching staff which means new system, new players they will covet, etc...
Nobody is a DeFilippo expert, and I doubt any of us really know what kind of system he wants to run so let me ask you guys what you might do with this team from a roster and system perspective?
Here is our current crop of o-linemen:
Tackles - Thomas (LT), Schwartz (RT), McQuistan, A.McDonald, Bowie
Guards - Bitonio (LG), Greco (RG), Barton, Painter
Centers - Mack
, McDonald, Hughlett (LS)Is there a weak spot in that starting 5? If so, how much do you invest to improve this line? Not only that, but what kind of blocking scheme fits these guys best? In my opinion, this is a solid group but need a versatile G/T player in case we lose another starter next year... McQuiston is NOT that guy...
Here are our "skill position" players:
QB - Manziel, Shaw
RB - Crowell, West, Winston
WR - Hawkins, Gabriel, Benjamin, R.Smith, Bates, Cone
TE - Barnidge, Dray
OH JEEZ... doesn't that strike fear into opposing defensive coordinators!?!? What the he** do we do about this group to make them legit? Here is where I am totally lost...
Any thoughts?
we won't win 4 games based on our schedule for 2015 with these players....you've got to be flippin kidding me...
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Pick up someone like Cecil Shorts and Charles Clay in FA. While using one first round pick on an NT like Shelton or Brown, use the other on a big receiver like Fowler or White. Use the second rounder on an OL that can compete on the right side - the starting 5 are pretty good, but depth is shocking. At QB, fuck knows, but if you have a skill group now looking like:
QB - Manziel, Shaw
RB - Crowell, West, Winston
WR - Shorts, Fowler, Hawkins, Gabriel, Benjamin
TE - Clay, Barnidge, Dray
Then a solid QB like Hoyer (why the fuck not, the players know and respect him) can give a solid performance. Give time for whoever we decide is the QB of the future - Manziel, Shaw, or someone else - to develop.
Pick up someone like Cecil Shorts and Charles Clay in FA. While using one first round pick on an NT like Shelton or Brown, use the other on a big receiver like Fowler or White. Use the second rounder on an OL that can compete on the right side - the starting 5 are pretty good, but depth is shocking. At QB, fuck knows, but if you have a skill group now looking like:
QB - Manziel, Shaw
RB - Crowell, West, Winston
WR - Shorts, Fowler, Hawkins, Gabriel, Benjamin
TE - Clay, Barnidge, Dray
Then a solid QB like Hoyer (why the fuck not, the players know and respect him) can give a solid performance. Give time for whoever we decide is the QB of the future - Manziel, Shaw, or someone else - to develop.
yeah thats just what we fucking need...another hoyer vs manziel comedy show....hopefully hoyer leaves this piece of shit organization...he deserves much better than this shit....
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Going out on a limb here, but I am honestly more concerned with fixing our Run D than our O.
I just have a feeling that the QB situation will solidify... not solved for all time, but solidified. Once over that hurdle the O-line and WR corps are not major hurdles.
Greater concern for me up the middle of the D.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Going out on a limb here, but I am honestly more concerned with fixing our Run D than our O.
I just have a feeling that the QB situation will solidify... not solved for all time, but solidified. Once over that hurdle the O-line and WR corps are not major hurdles.
Greater concern for me up the middle of the D.
Going out on a limb here, but I am honestly more concerned with fixing our Run D than our O.
Greater concern for me up the middle of the D.
which is the perfect segue into my first "draft shocker" possibility for the draft.....that I will admit to liking, while I think it would freak most of you guys out... A LOT!......hahaha
.But Ive been watching a guy, who I think is top 5 talent.....who is dropping slightly.....and not discussed much....and could, maybe, possibly fall to our pick at 12....so.....here it is.....the Browns are on the clock....and
At #12.....the Browns select.....Landon Collins...Strong Safety........Alabama
And the fans lose their minds.....the city burns....hahaha......
but, knowing his talent and how great safeties can change the face of a team....and knowing Farmer and Pettine... I can see it happening ....and, though not an immediate need, I would take him at 12 in a heartbeat!!!
Ok....Go ahead.....attack.....
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LOL... I took Collins at 19 or so in a First-Pick sim.
No trades were being offered.
I said "Gip got hurt last year and Whitner is no spring chicken... WTF..."
Plus the guy is big enough to work in an LB role in some Ds...
The Sim gave me an A- for my effort.
In First-Pick I've seen more than a few runs where our 2nd #1 pick at 19, and down, lands in a wasteland for need.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
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